Saddest moments in the book

[MauricXe]

I was bit moved when Rand and Aviendha waved to each other as he went to meet his destiny and she went to do battle.  That could be the last time they see each one another. It made me miss my gf.

[Vambram]

Bela's death was moving, but I think it was also done very appropriately while showing again that she was more than just another ordinary horse.

 

 

However, for those who are angry about Bela's death, please do not blame Brandon Sanderson. According to him, she was killed because Harriet insisted upon it. 

[Mats Spare Hat]

Hey Vambram,

Did Harriet set the scene & craft the writing from whence we see Bela's downfall? 

Woop, nope, that was Sanderson.

 

 Then
Bela died and all that went out the window/ I never thought she would
be killed so that it happened was bad enough.  Then the way it happened
is what really grinds my gears.

Heh, and I like how mrhumble1 delineates precisely his distaste for the handling of mandated horse death, in his prior postings.

Extrapolated thus, from:
1.) unexpected, makes you feel bad
2.) poor plan & execution on behalf of the writer to enact such mandate.

And, more than an ordinary horse? Done very appropriately?

What was she doing before Olver jumped aboard and rode her at breakneck speed to her death? Oh yeah, standing by a wagon munching on some grain.

Kid hops aboard, is shown internally maligning the quality of said horse , and hi ho horse-o-rooski! BAM dead horse.

Ordinary horse got played. Sad.

[Bluedust9]

Bela's death was moving, but I think it was also done very appropriately while showing again that she was more than just another ordinary horse.

 

 

However, for those who are angry about Bela's death, please do not blame Brandon Sanderson. According to him, she was killed because Harriet insisted upon it. 

 

As the previous post shows, just don't bother. No one acts rational when emotions and opinions kick in.

 

Edit: Autism doesn't help, but yeah.

[Vambram]

@Mat's Spare Hat;

 

You may believe that about the scene, but I do not see it that way at all.

 

And according to Sanderson, he did not want Bela to die, but this was done because Harriet insisted upon it. 

 

 

Bela was a great horse, and she gave her life so that Olver may live and so that the Horn would not fall into the hands of the Shadow.  

[Suttree]

Bela was no ordinary horse. Didn't anyone else notice how she evolved from "the little horse that could" in tEoTW to a virtual God by AMoL. According to Faile, Bela was faster and more skilled than the finest Tairen stock! The International Federation for Equestrian Sports has leveled doping accusations but no proof has been provided. They are currently awaiting necropsy results.

[Agitel]

Bela was no ordinary horse. Didn't anyone else notice how she evolved from "the little horse that could" in tEoTW to a virtual God by AMoL. According to Faile, Bela was faster and more skilled than the finest Tairen stock! The International Federation for Equestrian Sports has leveled doping accusations but no proof has been provided. They are currently awaiting necropsy results.

 

Oh! Come now. Bela's time in Tar Valon was not wasted on munching oats all day. She spent each day pumping iron and running laps to get in top physical shape.

 

Alright, I certainly don't think Brandon intended what I'm about to suggest, but for my peace of mind, I'm going to just pretend Faile's assessment wasn't entirely rational given the circumstances and that Bela was giving 110% due to sheer terror and would have died from heart failure from how hard she was pushing herself even if the trollocs hadn't gotten to her.

[Ingunn_d@hotmail.com]

I teared up twice...

 

-When Siuan died.

 

-When I read "... and like the wind he was gone."

[Erdrick]

Abell Cauthon embracing Tam to comfort him after he lit the funeral pyre...breaks my heart!

[Mats Spare Hat]

Suttree & Agitel:

*spit-take!



Anyway, better sad moment: The sort of grim foreshadow between scenes in WH, I think it was, and AMoL.

When Perrin is taking apart the captured Shaido: If I recall correctly he went about in some manner as to suggest how cruel it'd be to chop off an Aiel's feet, or something like that...

And then later on in AMoL: Aviendha blows apart her own lower extremities to the nth degree, in her clash with Graendal. 

More of a brutal sad new reality, rather than outright shed-a-tear sad.

The character whose been showcased as being privy to new knowledge of future events, and utmost concern for the future of her people, literally loses the ability for one of the most fundamental aspects of an Aiel. No more 5k fun runs for you!

[Erdrick]

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

[Agitel]

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

When I think about this, I'm reminded of the Penny-Arcade comic "The Unhorse." I'm not sure if it's appropriate to link it here due to harsh language.

[mrhumble1]

 

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

Um, how do you have this information??  How does one get inside info from the writing team??  Why would Harriet be so insistent that Bela die when Jordan had her survive all the way up to this point??? I'll believe something like that when it comes straight from the horses mouth (pun intended).  

 

To those who say Bela saved Oliver, she really didn't.  He was in the same danger after she fell.  He had Trollocs all around and had to save himself by scrambling away a short distance up a hill and then finding a crack to hide in.  This is one reason why I said she died for no purpose.  

 

Also, it would have taken any professional writer 5 minutes to make the following changes:

 

- Bela runs away after dropping Oliver, to an unknown fate

- Rand takes Bela out of the waste (instead of some random horse) at the end, revealing she survived

 

This would be VERY fitting considering it would just about bring the whole series full circle since the first chapter of EoTW had Rand and Bela together.

[Julian Cook]

The sadest 

 

 

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

When I think about this, I'm reminded of the Penny-Arcade comic "The Unhorse." I'm not sure if it's appropriate to link it here due to harsh language.

The more and more I hear about Harriet, the less respect i have for her, there really was no reason to kill Bela, there was no reason to hold off the ebook there was no reason for it to be 3 books, but i guess Harriet will get more cash and even more now we have to buy her encyclopaedia, I am just happy that I got a full refund from the audiobook :) 

[Suttree]

 

 

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

Um, how do you have this information??  How does one get inside info from the writing team?? 

A number of people here at DM are close enough to Team Jordan to get inside glimpses of the process. This particular piece however came from a Q&A:

 

 

Interview: 2013

                                                            

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

                                            

                                            

                                            Can (13 January 2013)                                            

                                            

@Terez27 Do we know which character is dead by Harriet's choice?

Terez

Bela. @BrandSanderson told us twice that she would survive. :( But apparently Harriet later insisted she should die.

                                            

                                            Brandon Sanderson (13 January 2013)                                            

                                            

Yeah. Harriet felt that we had painted that character into a corner, and the story demanded that conclusion.

Daniel Shepard

Is that the GRRM moment? Or the character that was gonna recover from their injuries?

Brandon Sanderson

Character was going to recover.

Brandon Sanderson

She was right to make that call, but it does turn me into a liar. That's what I get for speaking too soon...

Werthead

That does seem slightly ludicrous. I think the fanbase turned Bela into a bit of a meme.

Brandon Sanderson

True, but I will note that Harriet personally has a special fondness for her.

Brandon Sanderson

She has said that she would joke with RJ that Bela was the character based on Harriet in the books.

Peter Ahlstrom

Harriet even has "Bela" in her email address. She took her fate quite seriously.

Werthead

The average reader wouldn't even remember who she was. Weird this much effort was spent on her.

Peter Ahlstrom

You think? Back when I was an average reader and hadn't talked about the books online, I loved Bela.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

As the great Rodney Dangerfield was wont to say:

 

"Tough Crowd"

 

It was somewhat sad to see Bela go as she was a sweet horsie character that was in every book but it was the last battle. I think Harriet wanted to keep a little realism alive in our fantasy.

[mrhumble1]

It was somewhat sad to see Bela go as she was a sweet horsie character that was in every book but it was the last battle. I think Harriet wanted to keep a little realism alive in our fantasy.

 

WOW.  I am somewhat blown away by this.  Harriet??  REALLY????

 

I have nothing nice to say about this so I am just gonna stop talking.

[Erdrick]

Suttree is on it with the sources; thanks man! I like knowing what exactly were team Jordan decisions that RJ left open, because then I feel comfortable imagining it happened differently. Let me be clear, nothing changes the immense gratitude I feel toward Brandon Sanderson and team Jordan for carrying us to the ending RJ envisioned. At the same time, whenever something happened that doesn't work for me (e.g. Mat writing ridiculous backstories for his men in TGS, Mat's slapsticky comments about his stump-steward in the ToM, and several other Mat scenes unfortunately) I feel no hesitation changing the story in my mind. So mrhumble1, I say feel free to adapt those team Jordan scenes in your mind, as RJ himself did not determine Bela's fate.

In fact, just as fans are free to imagine what happens as the Wheel continues turning into the 4th age, I frequently add many off-screen bits to the story as it is in my mind, provided it doesn't contradict anything from RJ. For example, I asked Maria at the Chicago AMoL signing if she was aware of anything in RJ's notes about what happened to the stump of Tam's original sword that Rand discarded at the end of TGH. She was not aware of anything about it, so I feel free to keep my mind's narrative that Min kept it (for sentimental reasons). Laman's power wrought heron marked blade was a gift to Rand from Aviendha, but then he got some random boar-hide grip and scabbard for it. In my mental narrative, at some point after the last mentioning of the boar-hide grip and scabbard, Min had it replaced (off-screen) with the hilt and scabbard from Tam's old sword as a gift to Rand. So I see Rand (in Moridin's body), wandering the world with Bela and a sword virtually identical to the one he left the Two Rivers with, one day returning to let his father know the big secret of his survival. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 

PS: I also have some reunion scenes in my mind with Rand using his quasi-Creator powers to heal Galad's arm and Avi's toes...

[Julian Cook]

Suttree is on it with the sources; thanks man! I like knowing what exactly were team Jordan decisions that RJ left open, because then I feel comfortable imagining it happened differently. Let me be clear, nothing changes the immense gratitude I feel toward Brandon Sanderson and team Jordan for carrying us to the ending RJ envisioned. At the same time, whenever something happened that doesn't work for me (e.g. Mat writing ridiculous backstories for his men in TGS, Mat's slapsticky comments about his stump-steward in the ToM, and several other Mat scenes unfortunately) I feel no hesitation changing the story in my mind. So mrhumble1, I say feel free to adapt those team Jordan scenes in your mind, as RJ himself did not determine Bela's fate.

 

In fact, just as fans are free to imagine what happens as the Wheel continues turning into the 4th age, I frequently add many off-screen bits to the story as it is in my mind, provided it doesn't contradict anything from RJ. For example, I asked Maria at the Chicago AMoL signing if she was aware of anything in RJ's notes about what happened to the stump of Tam's original sword that Rand discarded at the end of TGH. She was not aware of anything about it, so I feel free to keep my mind's narrative that Min kept it (for sentimental reasons). Laman's power wrought heron marked blade was a gift to Rand from Aviendha, but then he got some random boar-hide grip and scabbard for it. In my mental narrative, at some point after the last mentioning of the boar-hide grip and scabbard, Min had it replaced (off-screen) with the hilt and scabbard from Tam's old sword as a gift to Rand. So I see Rand (in Moridin's body), wandering the world with Bela and a sword virtually identical to the one he left the Two Rivers with, one day returning to let his father know the big secret of his survival. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

PS: I also have some reunion scenes in my mind with Rand using his quasi-Creator powers to heal Galad's arm and Avi's toes...

if we are doing flights of fantasy, then Perrin gets killed by the first steam train after Faile dies in childbirth, Rand getts committed to an insane asylum for believing he can light a pipe with the power of his mind.  Matt then takes over the whole world and puts the white tower in bondage for they own protection as none of them seems to have an ounce of brains.  Lan lives to an old age alone as his good wife went back to the two rivers with her three kids as Lan would not give up smoking.  then the dark one is released to work in a fast food chain, while Olver goes onto marry some bird who can shot a bow fairly well 

[Agitel]

The sadest 

 

 

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

When I think about this, I'm reminded of the Penny-Arcade comic "The Unhorse." I'm not sure if it's appropriate to link it here due to harsh language.

The more and more I hear about Harriet, the less respect i have for her, there really was no reason to kill Bela, there was no reason to hold off the ebook there was no reason for it to be 3 books, but i guess Harriet will get more cash and even more now we have to buy her encyclopaedia, I am just happy that I got a full refund from the audiobook :) 

 

I think your applying some malicious motivations to Harriet that just aren't true. While I think a number of people disagree with her opinion on the ebook and may be in the right on this, she comes from a bit of an older school tradition. She was also concerned with Jordan's legacy and the ratings the book would get (and it is true that ebooks are excluded from counts by some measures). I don't think she had any intent of squeezing more money out of the situation.

 

She was right on Bela, though. I'm not going to make a big deal about that decision...

 

But I think I've managed to drag the discussion way off topic. Forgive me.

[Julian Cook]

 

The sadest 

 

 

Re: all this Bela talk...I never got that attached to Bela, but hearing that her fate was not predetermined by RJ, I would have preferred it if they left it open and just didn't mention Bela in AMoL. In fact, it would have been a nice full circle ending if the last chapter of the final book was Rand heading down an empty road with Bela, as it was in the first chapter of the first book (minus Tam of course).

 

Brandon had originally written his manuscript with Bela living, but Harriet figuratively smacked him upside the head and told him he put her in an impossible situation to get out of and he had to kill her off. I suppose he could have rewritten, everything, but it was probably late at that point.

 

When I think about this, I'm reminded of the Penny-Arcade comic "The Unhorse." I'm not sure if it's appropriate to link it here due to harsh language.

The more and more I hear about Harriet, the less respect i have for her, there really was no reason to kill Bela, there was no reason to hold off the ebook there was no reason for it to be 3 books, but i guess Harriet will get more cash and even more now we have to buy her encyclopaedia, I am just happy that I got a full refund from the audiobook :) 

 

I think your applying some malicious motivations to Harriet that just aren't true. While I think a number of people disagree with her opinion on the ebook and may be in the right on this, she comes from a bit of an older school tradition. She was also concerned with Jordan's legacy and the ratings the book would get (and it is true that ebooks are excluded from counts by some measures). I don't think she had any intent of squeezing more money out of the situation.

 

She was right on Bela, though. I'm not going to make a big deal about that decision...

 

But I think I've managed to drag the discussion way off topic. Forgive me.

 

Sorry but as a reader I feel cheated and milked, I dont know of any reader of the books that thinks three were needed, oh so much padding its insane, that we then got early releases of chapters that we could pay for then to have to pay again for the same as part of the main, shameful.  I dont get that she is protecting Jordan's legacy but milking it for all she can get. why do we have to wait for an encyclopedia to get some of the answers to threads that have been left open in the book if not to milk further cash from us poor readers, have we not spent enough already over the years, have we not wasted so many hours and days only to be left hanging, its not like there are a few things left open and to be honest what has been closed has been done so in really crappy ways.

 

There was no reason that Bela had to die, none, the nag was just a fan favourite and did not add to the arch just to the environment, i am not upset that she died, its just that from what BS has said she was doing a pissing contest, he said he lived and then she had to die to make her feel big.  dont get me wrong BS is a really good writer and for the most part I love his books, just not his wheel of time books

[Julian Cook]

The matrix was a really good film, matrix 2 and 3 made matrix a bad movie, the same is true of the last 3 WOT books

[Disco]

Galads death got me... Of course he dust actually die

[Disco]

*didnt

[DrunkenWarder]

Davram and Deira Bashere because they were said to be darkfriends. That scene when Deira steps beside Davram when he is being accused of being a darkfriend is really strong. They died to wash their names.