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DRAGONMOUNT

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Terez

Leigh Butler's review

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Keep in mind that Callandor was made before the taint existed.  This means that the flaws in Callandor has nothing to do with the taint - the symptoms of the flaw just so happened to magnify the taint somehow.

Edited by Mark D

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I've been thinking about the choked up moment involving a sparring session, and I can't think of any pairing that would have that kind of emotional impact other than Rand and Lan, but don't see how that's ever gonna happen.  Probly have to be after Rand got a new body somehow. and requires Lan to survive long enough.  This one really has me stumped because I just don't know of any other matchups that would have that impact.  Is there anyone else we would care enough about?  Or rather that Leigh would care that much about I guess. 

As I said earlier my money is on Rand sparring with Tam here. 

 

But the most interesting comment IMO is this one

 

Hah, so sure of that theory, were you? Well, so were a lot of people. So much for that!

 

 Clearly it's about some theory that is pretty much universally accepted but turned out to be wrong. But I have no idea which one and I can't even think of any suitable candidates.

 

And another one

WELP, WE ALL KNEW THIS WAS COMING. But fortunately not in the way we were – expecting? Sort of? …And that does divide up nicely this way, doesn’t it. Well done.

 divide up nicely?  This is from the end of the review  so what can they be dividing up at this point? Rand between his girls? Can't think of anything else.

Edited by herid

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Rand between his girls was my thought. I just wonder what she means about 'not in the way we expected'. And why that would be fortunate, aside from the element of surprise.

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A most interesting review.

 

When do bookstores typically receive a new item before they put on the shelves? 1 week, 2 weeks prior?

Edited by Entreri

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I find the Tam/Rand spar unlikely for two reasons.  1)  They already had their reunion and reconciliation.  2)  Rand has no hand and physically cannot spar with anyone.

 

My money is still on Galad/Gawyn...though I'm not sure why it would be so emotional.  Rand and Tam sparring would be a terrific sequence, I just find it unlikely.  I cant really think of any other possibile sparring sessions that could be remotely emotional though so Rand might actually be involved.

 

I'm thinking that the Demandred/Roedran theory might be the one everyone was so sure of that turned out wrong.

 

One possibility for the last line is that all of Rand's girls die.  Or Elayne and Avi die.  Plenty of evidence to go against this, but Min's viewings are not rock solid near the ending and I think that includes the ones with the babies being born.  All of the "my babes will be born, Min saw it so I'll be safe" could be foreshadowing of her just biting the dust prior to the babes being born at all.  Killing all of them off with Rand is definitely one way to handle the mess he got himself into.

Edited by Mark D

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I'm thinking that the Demandred/Roedran theory might be the one everyone was so sure of that turned out wrong.

 

I'm thinking this is highly unlikely, mostly because there aren't any other options that haven't been debunked. It's more likely the one Leigh didn't bother to guess on. I'm not sure if she knows how popular Roedred has become.

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A most interesting review.

 

When do bookstores typically receive a new item before they put on the shelves? 1 week, 2 weeks prior?

1 week at the most...

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Rand between his girls was my thought. I just wonder what she means about 'not in the way we expected'. And why that would be fortunate, aside from the element of surprise.

yes, that's why I'm not sure it's about Rand and the girls. I would say the expected division is Rand goes with Min somewhere while Avi and Elayne remain behind. Don't see how that it can be done differently.

 

I find the Tam/Rand spar unlikely for two reasons.  1)  They already had their reunion and reconciliation.  2)  Rand has no hand and physically cannot spar with anyone.

 

 

1) Rand and Tam had a reunion but haven't sparred, at least not on screen. 2) Rand said he was going to learn to use the sword one handed.

Edited by herid

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Dude....it is not possible to learn to use your sword one handed.  I mean it just isn't.  The type of sword they use requires two hands.  I'm sure you could monkey out a way to use it one handed but you aren't going to be anywhere near capable of facing a two handed blademaster.

 

Secondly, I dont think he literally meant he was going to learn the sword over again.

 

Thirdly, he hasn't had time to learn the sword one handed.

 

Fourth, we haven't even seen him bring it up again or try to practice or learn the sword over again one handed.

 

Fifth, Tam hasn't even shown his sword skill off at all in the book.  He has more or less taken the stance of a teacher who hasn't used the thing in decades and is likely very out of practice.

 

Six, Rand and Tam sparring seems out of character for the two of them the more I think about it.  For it to be emotional they would have to care deeply about sword practice and it would need to be a connection between the two of them.  The absolute last thing Rand wants to do with his father is practice fighting him.

 

Seven, Tam would get obliterated by Rand if he had "relearned" how to use his sword with one hand.  Rand is basically the second best swordsman in the entire world, and possibly the best by the end.  Him and Lan are pretty unquestionably the two kings of the mountain when it comes to swords in this series.  Tam is an older man who hasn't used his sword in decades and only attempts to teach kids nowdays.  This isn't the same as Lan who has kept his skill sharpened and honed daily even though he is a bit older (though significantly younger than Tam).

 

It would be a great scene, but I find it very unlikely.

Edited by Mark D

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I like the theories that the quote about "throwing it away" could refer to Callandor, Fain's dagger, or the bloodknives' rings. With regards to the quote saying "it" instead of "them"... Gawyn might just put one ring on. He wouldn't really need all 3 to give him an edge.

 

Some thoughts, not all of them entirely serious:
 

 

Wow, I totally forgot that ______ didn’t actually know that. And yes, dude, your timing sucks balls. Sheesh.

 

I rather like the idea posted at TL that this could be Galad learning he has another half brother

 

I like this theory too; it was the first thing I thought of when I read that quote. I wasn't sure if that was just me, though, since I REALLY want to see Galad find out that Rand is his brother. Glad someone else thinks that too :D

 

A most interesting review.

 

When do bookstores typically receive a new item before they put on the shelves? 1 week, 2 weeks prior?

 

Like Sutt said, one week at the most. However, AMOL will be an S.O.S. title, meaning the bookstores cannot legally sell it to you before the actual release date.

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@herid - Leighs review is out of sequence (or at least some are), you're probably right though about Rand and the girls.

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Rand and Lan sparring would be way more emotional and nostalgic than Rand and Tam anyway.  Rand/Lan could totally take you back to the early books and put a tear in your eye if done well.  And there ARE some ways it could happen including but probly not limited to: happening in T'A'R, body swap theory, Rand ripped whole out of T'A'R by nynaeve theory, or Rand resurrected or reincarnated in some other manner.

Edited by Aredeis

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I think Rand/Lan most likely, second Rand/Tam.

 

I mean yes I'd reminisce over a sparring session, but I don't think I'd get chocked up unless something major had happened e.g. Nyn heals Rand's hand (there has been some foreshadowing of her healing his hand along with Thom's limp) and the first scene after is his sparring session with Lan/Tam/anybody, this would choke most people up, I also think its quite in keeping with his character that as soon as his hand is restored he immediately feels the need to sharpen up his sword wielding skills that he will feel have gone a bit rusty.

 

That to me is the sort of choking up sparring scene.

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I don't actually think we'll get a Rand/Tam sparring scene either, but the martial artist in me felt compelled to address some of what you said, Mark. Apologies in advance. :)

 

Your first point, it's actually very easy, if originally uncommon. The Heron blade is, for all intents and purposes, a katana. It has quillions instead of a Tsuba and the blade appears to curve slightly more, but it is a katana. While the weapon is primarily a two handed affair Musashi proved that to not be a requirement ages ago. Fighting one handed with a Katana is not all that difficult a feat assuming you have talent for the sword to begin with.

 

I agree with your second quote, he was making light of the situation with Bashere, not dedicating himself to relearn. Also agree with your 6th in that I doubt the two of them will want to spar.

 

Third I do disagree with some. While you would have to relearn in the sense of teaching your muscle memory not to assume your left arm can grasp, half of the proper form of a katana ends up with the blade in one hand here and there. It would be less of a "relearn from scratch" case and more of a "Adjust to my new limitations and work through what I can no longer do."

 

Four is true but not telling one way or another.

 

Five is a case of who knows. He's been wearing a blade and to my knowledge we've yet to ever have a battle focus on where he is when he's involved. He might be washed up, he might be a monster, we just don't know. This applies to your seventh point as well.

Edited by KakitaOCU

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Holy crap, THROW IT AWAY RIGHT NOW ARE YOU CRAZY. …Wait, stupid question.

 

as I said the quote is definitely about Rand actively doing something incredibly stupid so a domination band doesn't fit. But as for working a crazy Rand into a link, Callandor will do that on its own. Durinax suggested the following idea which I'm pretty sure is correct. The viewing of the black hand holding Callandor and the prophecy "Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized." mean that Rand will be possessed by the DO while using Callandor. If Rand uses the TP at any point for any reason that's all the more likely. "...and the Blade will bind him by twain." likely means that Callandor will serve as a kind of domination band (without actually being one) after Rand is taken over by the DO.

 

Why are you so sure it's Rand.  Rand isn't so "obviously crazy" anymore.  Fain, on the other hand ... and, quite conveniently, his link to his power is something that could be "thrown away."

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Dude....it is not possible to learn to use your sword one handed.  I mean it just isn't.  The type of sword they use requires two hands.  I'm sure you could monkey out a way to use it one handed but you aren't going to be anywhere near capable of facing a two handed blademaster.

 

Secondly, I dont think he literally meant he was going to learn the sword over again.

 

Thirdly, he hasn't had time to learn the sword one handed.

 

Fourth, we haven't even seen him bring it up again or try to practice or learn the sword over again one handed.

 

Fifth, Tam hasn't even shown his sword skill off at all in the book.  He has more or less taken the stance of a teacher who hasn't used the thing in decades and is likely very out of practice.

 

Six, Rand and Tam sparring seems out of character for the two of them the more I think about it.  For it to be emotional they would have to care deeply about sword practice and it would need to be a connection between the two of them.  The absolute last thing Rand wants to do with his father is practice fighting him.

 

Seven, Tam would get obliterated by Rand if he had "relearned" how to use his sword with one hand.  Rand is basically the second best swordsman in the entire world, and possibly the best by the end.  Him and Lan are pretty unquestionably the two kings of the mountain when it comes to swords in this series.  Tam is an older man who hasn't used his sword in decades and only attempts to teach kids nowdays.  This isn't the same as Lan who has kept his skill sharpened and honed daily even though he is a bit older (though significantly younger than Tam).

 

It would be a great scene, but I find it very unlikely.

 

Eighth, he crafts a hand for himself out of OP and uses that :D

 

In all seriousness, maybe LTT remembers some trick of using the OP as a prosthetic.  I'm not putting anything past Holy Rand.

 

Of all the things going on, it hardly seems to make any plot-sense to show anyone else sparring - Rand and Lan are the only ones we've seen frequently throughout many of the books.  Anything else (outside of maybe the G bros) would seem too forced .. and I don't see that scene being that much of a tear-shedder.

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I was going to start a new thread for this, but then I saw Leigh's review, and it played right along with what I noticed.  I swear I was questioning this before I even knew Leigh had posted her review, and her words only make me more sure of myself that this is significant.  First, what Leigh said:

 

Quote

Wow, I totally forgot that ______ didn’t actually know that. And yes, dude, your timing sucks balls. Sheesh
.

 

Now, here is what I saw in ToM (page 609 of the Hardcover) and wanted to ask the primal minds of Dragonmount if they thought this was important:

 

Quote (my bolded emphasis added, as well as underlined):

 

     "And still Slayer beat us," he said bitterly.  "A pack of five of us together weren't enough to fight him."

     Perrin had felt this way when he'd found his family dead, killed by trollocs.  How many was the Shadow going to take from him by the time this was done?  Hopper should have been safe in the wolf dream.

 

For BS to bring this up (the fact the Perrin thinks his family was killed by Trollocs) made me think it was significant, because if I recall correctly, FAIN killed Perrin's family with the help of the White Cloaks; I also seem to remember Bornhald being there to witness it, if not participate. Unfortunately, I do not have The Shadow Rising to check this out, so this is ALL from memory.

 

Now, with Leigh talkiing about something that seems to mesh with my question, I am starting to think her quote and Perrin's understanding of his family's fate could be one and the same.

 

Thoughts?

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@Dreggs Morlock You are right, Perrin doesn't know about it and you are also right that Bornhald does. This is a very good guess. If Bornhald brings that up at an inopportune moment it could seriously complicate Perrin's relationship with the Whitecloaks.

@Mark D I don't think the one about sparring is worth fighting over. It's a small and rather inconsequential plot detail whoever it is. I stand by my prediction that it's Tam and Rand. We'll see.

As I said, the one that I find really interesting is this one
 

Hah, so sure of that theory, were you? Well, so were a lot of people. So much for that!

 

I agree with Terez that it's not  about Demandred = Roedran.   What else can it be? That Nyn will push  dead Rand out of TAR? Would hate to see this one disproved. But it doesn't sound like it. Rand's resurrection would be a major moment and would likely elicit a stronger reaction.  Taim= Moridin theory? Don't think that one was  all that popular.

Edited by herid

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It could be Mazridin. It was moderately popular, and it had Linda for a champion. I'm sure there are other options but I can't call any to mind at the moment.

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@Terez good point about Linda. I find this hard to judge as I have no idea how aware Leigh is of which theories are popular.

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I'm so excited! I wonder how many additional days I will have to wait until the book arrives from the US to me, to Poland :sad:

Wow, I totally forgot that ______ didn’t actually know that. And yes, dude, your timing sucks balls. Sheesh.

IIRC Rand is still unaware of Perrin's TAR abilities, or even of the details of his bond with the wolves. Actually, he's unaware of many facts: Elayne's pregnancy, Moiraine rescue mission, Mat's marriage, Morgase... He knows who Galad is to him whereas Galad cannot know that, so whose timing is worse?

WELP, WE ALL KNEW THIS WAS COMING. But fortunately not in the way we were – expecting? Sort of? …And that does divide up nicely this way, doesn’t it. Well done.

Maybe something with Aes Sedai-Asha'man official establishement of roles? Or division of areas of influence between the Seanchan and the rest?

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Isn't the Taim/Moridin theory pretty much debunked the aMoL prologue?

 

It could be Mazridin. It was moderately popular, and it had Linda for a champion. I'm sure there are other options but I can't call any to mind at the moment.

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Isn't the Taim/Moridin theory pretty much debunked the aMoL prologue?

 

It could be Mazridin. It was moderately popular, and it had Linda for a champion. I'm sure there are other options but I can't call any to mind at the moment.

 

@Sarlic Which would be part of what she was reviewing.  If you don't follow her reread you wouldn't know that she didn't read any of the prereleased material.  I presume not to contaminate the reread with any spoilers from said material.  So the Taim scene in the prologue could be what she is talking about.

Edited by Aredeis

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