Besides Rand...is there any other character in WoT that we all can agree to "like?"

[Kuchinski]

Of the three ta'veren, i like Mat the most because he does what he wants and i like his personality. Rand is always downcast and Perrin is his wife's bitch.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Kuchinski

[David Selig]

I don't like Setalle. The way she treated Nynaeve and Elayne was very annoying. And she sided with Tuon all the time when they travelled together.

 

Rand is the best written character in the series, but he's a jerk often and his type of sexism really grates.

 

I love Setalle for siding with Mat. She likes him and wants to "protect him" from their foolishness. One of my favorite WoT lines: "I doubt I’ve ever seen so much foolishness poured into just two dresses."

She certainly wasn't siding with Mat when she was travelling with him and Tuon was there. You'd think she would hate someone who leashes channellers and forced her into exile, but no.

 

Besides, the scene where she meets Elayne and Nynaeve really annoys me because it's so contrived. Setalle is 100% convinced they can't really be Aes Sedai, to the extend that she gives away the Kin's secret, just because Elayne looks 18. Since before her and Egwene have been cases of 22-23 years being made Aes Sedai, this is really silly. Who can differentiate between those ages with such precision and take such a big risk aaonly because of this? And she really didn't have to be so dismissive and mean towards Elayne and Nynaeve.

[TNine]

She certainly wasn't siding with Mat when she was travelling with him and Tuon was there. You'd think she would hate someone who leashes channellers and forced her into exile, but no.

 

Besides, the scene where she meets Elayne and Nynaeve really annoys me because it's so contrived. Setalle is 100% convinced they can't really be Aes Sedai, to the extend that she gives away the Kin's secret, just because Elayne looks 18. Since before her and Egwene have been cases of 22-23 years being made Aes Sedai, this is really silly. Who can differentiate between those ages with such precision and take such a big risk aaonly because of this? And she really didn't have to be so dismissive and mean towards Elayne and Nynaeve.

I assumed that was just Mat being Ta'veren. They started working with Mat, so they started getting what they needed.

[Maleshub]

I don't like Setalle. The way she treated Nynaeve and Elayne was very annoying. And she sided with Tuon all the time when they travelled together.

 

Rand is the best written character in the series, but he's a jerk often and his type of sexism really grates.

 

I love Setalle for siding with Mat. She likes him and wants to "protect him" from their foolishness. One of my favorite WoT lines: "I doubt I’ve ever seen so much foolishness poured into just two dresses."

She certainly wasn't siding with Mat when she was travelling with him and Tuon was there. You'd think she would hate someone who leashes channellers and forced her into exile, but no.

 

Besides, the scene where she meets Elayne and Nynaeve really annoys me because it's so contrived. Setalle is 100% convinced they can't really be Aes Sedai, to the extend that she gives away the Kin's secret, just because Elayne looks 18. Since before her and Egwene have been cases of 22-23 years being made Aes Sedai, this is really silly. Who can differentiate between those ages with such precision and take such a big risk aaonly because of this? And she really didn't have to be so dismissive and mean towards Elayne and Nynaeve.

 

Setalle's siding with Tuon wasn't politically-motivated. Mat had his reputation; and she saw it first hand during the time he spent at her inn. It was simply a women's thing:

 

KoD:

 

“Tuon? You think I can’t be trusted with Tuon?”

 

Mistress Anan laughed at him. a fine rich laugh. “You are a rogue. my Lord. Now. some rogues make fine husbands, once they’ve been tamed a little around the edges-my Jasfer was a rogue when I met him-but you still think you can nibble a pastry here, nibble a pastry there, then dance off to the next.”

 

“There’s no dancing away from this one.” Mat said frowning up at the wagon door. The dice clicked away in his head. “Not for me.” He was not sure he really wanted to dance away anymore, but want and wish as he might, he was well and truly caught.

 

“Like that, is it?” she murmured. “Oh. You’ve chosen a fine one to break your heart.”

 

And Setalle's relationship with Tuon has other facets than the above. She already started changing Tuon's perception of Randland and broadened her view of the world. That is clear in the way Tuon handled Beslan. She isn't reformed; but Setalle started a process.

 

KoD:

 

“I’ve told you often enough it’s a different world than you’re used to.” Mistress Anan murmured, “but you still don’t quite believe it, do you?”

 

“Just because a thing is a certain way.” Tuon replied, “doesn’t mean it should be that way, even if it has been for a long time.”

 

“Some might say the same of your people, my Lady.”

 

As to her irrational handling of Nynaeve and Elayne, it was what TNine said.

 

I assumed that was just Mat being Ta'veren. They started working with Mat, so they started getting what they needed.

 

In any case, Setalle isn't perfect. She has her flaws. But what she did and what she represents; and how she carries herself; are all admirable traits.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Theodril

[batcaver]

I don't actually like Rand. He's a generic one-dimensional personality-free fantasy book protagonist which is entirely reliant on his previous incarnation's skills and reputation. Why is Rand famous? Because people foretold that Lews Therin would be reborn at the end of an Age. Why is Rand a brilliant strategist (despite having no education or experience outside of herding sheep)? Because he gets memories from Lews Therin, who was a general in a ten year war and a world leader for decades before that. Why is Rand the strongest channeller evah? Lews Therin. Why is Rand prophesied to end the Shadow? Lews Therin. How do the Forsaken refer to Rand, and what do they think of him? Lews Therin. Even Heroes of the Horn refer to him as Lews Therin.

 

In my opinion, this is the worst possible way to write a hero. Rand's role is completely passive, he's a receptacle for miracles and phantasms and prophecies of salvation/destruction, there's nothing about his activities in the series that is in any way connected to his background (of herding sheep in a backwater village), his moral convictions are never questioned or shaken by any temptation, real or otherwise. Rand doesn't care that he can topple mountains and make fire consume all who oppose him. He isn't seduced by beautiful women throwing themselves at him. He doesn't feel the power of controlling five kingdoms. He's just here to save the day, because that's what heroes do. Wonderful.

 

Granted, Rand's story arc in TGS was pretty fun to read, and seeing him calm and collected in ToM really paid off after the string of self-induced failures reached its logical conclusion. Aside from that... meh. He doesn't feel like a real person.

 

 

The characters that I do like are Egwene and Nynaeve. Unlike most everyone else, these two actually learn to be competent and mature from their mistakes, and their high positions feel well-deserved by the time they reach them. The only problem I have with Egwene is that it was completely implausible for the Salidar Aes Sedai to choose her as the Amyrlin Seat. A group of rebels would want to cling to any shred of plausibility and credibility they can have would not have selected an apprentice who spent a total of three months in the Tower and was raised to Accepted by the impeached Amyrlin's decree - shortly before leaving the Tower once again. It's like making an intern student chairman of the board of directors, completely ridiculous. Still, her story was one of the more interesting ones to read, so I'm willing to close my eyes on that obvious plot convenience.

 

I've felt like this at times too. Rand has so many cool parts in the books, but it's very rare that they come as a result of his personality. He's almost like the broom of the plot. Since the very first book he's had a tendency to get lost in his function, and the fact that as the series goes on he's "on screen" much less than he is in the beginning doesn't help. Rand actually kind of saved TGS for me in some ways. The reunion with Tam, Veins of Gold, Natrin's Barrow - these scenes actually provided some substance to Rand that had really been lacking in the books (for me) pretty much since Path of Daggers. The payoff there had been a long time coming and I felt like those scenes were quite well done, especially compared to other parts of the book. They were those rare moments when personality and plot came together and just worked, plain and simple.

 

It's kind of strange for me to think of the way I thought of the three boys at the beginning. Rand was front and center and Mat was pretty clear cut from the start. Perrin was the one who seemed to me to be kind of lifeless, actually. Now, I'd say that he's probably the most fleshed out of all three. He's not my favorite, but I really feel like he's been developed more as a character than the other two (sometimes excruciatingly so). The scene when he cut the hand off of the Shaido man was the only scene in the entire series that I can think of when one of the three developed in a way that really surprised me while still seeming perfectly natural. Mat and Rand are usually still more fun to read, but they both have areas where I find their motivations inexplicably convenient to the plot. Perrin actually feels quite solidly placed at this point in terms of who he's become, why he's made the choices he has, etc.

 

Shai'tan. I liked him unconditionally for those two pages or whatever he was in. That's my vote.

Edited November 25, 2012 by batcaver

[Hagazussa]

Do we all like Rand? I have never been the hugest fan of that character. Now do not get me wrong he is well written, and I like how the struggle he have to go through are described but he kind of end up being a bit of a douche, it is understandable that he is but a douche none the less. I do not hate the character but he do end up rather far down on my list of favorites.

 

I like Taim, Logain and several of the other Black Tower men, I love the scenes from the Black Tower where you see some of the struggles and sacrifices they make. I actually like the wonder girls allot, I think they are fun to read about. I like Verin and Cads to. Moiraine is one of my favorite characters. For some reason I really like Elaida even if she is the queen of douche. I like Renna the sul'dam to.

 

I think I have a crush on Semirhage, yeah don't ask, and I really like Rhavin. I really enjoy Ishamael to for his personality reminds me of my hubby. In fact I think most of the Forsaken are good characters.

 

I like Min for her abilities are rather original and interesting. I like Lan allot to. In fact there are so many good characters I do not know how to list them all, but and is far from my favorite to put it like that. I have to agree with the poster that said Rand was generic, in many ways he is, he is the hero with a thousand faces and little more we have seen variations of the same character in so many different fantasy books and other media, yes some of his storyline is interesting but he just seam more to me like a plot point than a person.

[EmperorAllspice]

Don't most people like villains like Ishamael and Demandred? At least Demandred. I haven't heard any bad words against him

[OptimusPrime]

I think Lan will end up being the universal one. Shame this wasnt a poll

[Kamin_Majere]

At least Demandred. I haven't heard any bad words against him

 

That's because Damandred has had about as much screen time as that seeker that was questioning everyone. Hard to like/dislike someone with about 20 total sentences worth of screen time in the whole of the series

[driedraspberry]

At least Demandred. I haven't heard any bad words against him

 

That's because Damandred has had about as much screen time as that seeker that was questioning everyone. Hard to like/dislike someone with about 20 total sentences worth of screen time in the whole of the series

 

Hmm underestimation, no? I can think of three instances we've had sections from his perspective. For me at least that was enough to like him.

[Viperswhip]

Well there are lots. I like Mat, Dobraine, Avi (now), Amys, Bair, Rhuarc, Talmanes and on and on, probably because most of them don't get enough air time to bug us.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Am I the only one that likes Fain? Can't go past a good crazy villain.

 

I also like that Seanchan general that Perrin meets, but I can't remember her name.

 

Didnt like Nynaeve for a while there but now she grown up shes awesome.

 

Can't say I know anyone who hates Herid Fel, except the forsaken who sent the gholam of course.

[muddasssir]

Some good stuff overall in your post above but had to call this part out as totally false. It would seem you just skipped the entire "Dark Rand" storyline if you believe this quote to be the case.

Dark Rand storyline wasn't Rand giving into the temptation of using his power for personal gain. It was Rand being depressed and emotionally wounded as a reaction to bad guys trying to kill him and his loved ones all the time. When Rand goes to destroy the Seanchan at Ebou Dar, he's still doing it to save the world, instead of saving himself or profiting from it. His methods (almost) change, but his convictions do not. He's still a passive vessel that goes from place A to place B killing the bad guys to save the world, because I must.

 

The first thing Rand should do is tell himself "Why the hell am I, of all people, denied the chance to live a normal life with friends, a girlfriend, and a steady job that pays well? Why does there have to be a Chosen One that dies to save the world, and how do I even know these prophecies are real and true? To hell with this, I'm young and handsome, I have god-like powers, I control five nations a huge fleet of speedy ships and ten tribes of fearsome savages - let's partay, and if Aes Sedai are so competent they can battle the Dark One all by themselves. And anyone who comes after me will be thrown out as a pile of smoking ashes." That would make the kidnapping and beating he got at the hands of Elaida's Aes Sedai logical and in some ways deserved, not to mention the suspicion and opposition he gets from Egwene, Cadsuane, and just about everyone else he meets.

Two questions both of them personal, I am sorry for prying, but Why d you read the series in first place? Even if you do what compels you to post?

[kght22]

tam. lan, agelmar, moiraine, gaul, rhurarc, amys. i cannot be sure, but i think these are all universally liked characters not including rand. i would include min, but i think there are many people who dislike her for various reasons. there are likely more characters that are universally liked or loved (ingtar off the top of my head).

[Hagazussa]

Am I the only one that likes Fain? Can't go past a good crazy villain.

 

Fain is a hoot, not my favorite but he is definitely a fun villain.

[Suttree]

I think I have a crush on Semirhage, yeah don't ask...

 

Close to being sig worthy right there...

[Bobwheel]

Mat, Thom, Birgitte. Top 3 most everyone should love.

[Maleshub]

I think I have a crush on Semirhage, yeah don't ask...

 

Close to being sig worthy right there...

 

She is the most effective Foresaken for the first 10.5 books. And she shatters Rand's psyche with her torture. He was begging her! A very scary woman!

[Qscape]

How can anyone hate Abell Cauthon? He is savy and clever! Selucia is a good character as well. Olver, Noal, Anaiya, Loial, Diera Bashere, I just love her.

 

To be honest, of all the animals I love, it is Pips and Stepper. I hate Bela something fierce and I don't know why. Every time someone says Bela is the Creator I just want to hit her with balefire. GO PIPS AND STEPPER!!!!!!

 

oh, and Hopper.

[Bobwheel]

I don't actually like Rand. He's a generic one-dimensional personality-free fantasy book protagonist which is entirely reliant on his previous incarnation's skills and reputation. Why is Rand famous? Because people foretold that Lews Therin would be reborn at the end of an Age. Why is Rand a brilliant strategist (despite having no education or experience outside of herding sheep)? Because he gets memories from Lews Therin, who was a general in a ten year war and a world leader for decades before that. Why is Rand the strongest channeller evah? Lews Therin. Why is Rand prophesied to end the Shadow? Lews Therin. How do the Forsaken refer to Rand, and what do they think of him? Lews Therin. Even Heroes of the Horn refer to him as Lews Therin.

 

In my opinion, this is the worst possible way to write a hero. Rand's role is completely passive, he's a receptacle for miracles and phantasms and prophecies of salvation/destruction, there's nothing about his activities in the series that is in any way connected to his background (of herding sheep in a backwater village), his moral convictions are never questioned or shaken by any temptation, real or otherwise. Rand doesn't care that he can topple mountains and make fire consume all who oppose him. He isn't seduced by beautiful women throwing themselves at him. He doesn't feel the power of controlling five kingdoms. He's just here to save the day, because that's what heroes do. Wonderful.

 

Granted, Rand's story arc in TGS was pretty fun to read, and seeing him calm and collected in ToM really paid off after the string of self-induced failures reached its logical conclusion. Aside from that... meh. He doesn't feel like a real person.

 

 

The characters that I do like are Egwene and Nynaeve. Unlike most everyone else, these two actually learn to be competent and mature from their mistakes, and their high positions feel well-deserved by the time they reach them. The only problem I have with Egwene is that it was completely implausible for the Salidar Aes Sedai to choose her as the Amyrlin Seat. A group of rebels would want to cling to any shred of plausibility and credibility they can have would not have selected an apprentice who spent a total of three months in the Tower and was raised to Accepted by the impeached Amyrlin's decree - shortly before leaving the Tower once again. It's like making an intern student chairman of the board of directors, completely ridiculous. Still, her story was one of the more interesting ones to read, so I'm willing to close my eyes on that obvious plot convenience.

I felt I had to respond to this.

 

First I liked Rand in Eye of the world, and Great Hunt, Hated him in Dragon Reborn. Hated him until he started listening to Moiraine again, started hating him again after Asmodean died. 

 

So I could go on but basically I have a love hate relationship with him.

 

But I think he needs some defense here. You seem to think that Rand learned nothing he just received all his knowledge from Lews Therin which is not true. Lan taught him the sword for months. Moiraine taught him Palace Intrigue for approx a month. He never planed any battle he even thinks to himself that his generals included him in the battle planning to be polite. Asmodean taught him some of his channeling and yes Lews Therin gave him the rest which is the one thing Lews Therin actually did teach him. 

 

But if your gonna hate on him for being given all of his knowledge then you must hate Mat as well because besides rolling dice and choosing horses all of his knowledge was given to him as well.

[bigdoug1971]

I like a lot of the people.  Moiraine.  Thom.  Lan.  Master Gill.  Gaul.  Tam.  Elyas.  Hopper.  Birgitte.  I think these are all mutually liked.  Can't forget Balwer, Sulin, Rodel, Silviana, and Gareth Bryne too.  Noal, Talmanes, Rhuarc too.  I think the list of liked characters is shorter than those everyone hates.

[aranyaka]

Mybe I'm the only one dislike Hopper. I almost dislike all characters related to Perrin or Faile.

[TNine]

 

I like a lot of the people. Moiraine. Thom. Lan. Master Gill. Gaul. Tam. Elyas. Hopper. Birgitte. I think these are all mutually liked. Can't forget Balwer, Sulin, Rodel, Silviana, and Gareth Bryne too. Noal, Talmanes, Rhuarc too. I think the list of liked characters is shorter than those everyone hates.

Silviana? I can't really see that. She may have been a great Mistress of Novices to the Novices, but she was central in administering a lot of Elaida's unjust punishments. Beating Alviarin every morning (indefinitely), breaking Shemerin (the demoted Aes Sedai), trying to break Egwene. While she was doing it by command of the Amyrlin, she really should have taken a stand against it or something.

Edited November 30, 2012 by TNine

[batcaver]

 

Am I the only one that likes Fain? Can't go past a good crazy villain.

Fain is a hoot, not my favorite but he is definitely a fun villain.

 

 

 

I really liked Fain and even just the general idea of Fain for the first half of the series, but it's hard to keep liking a guy who's never around. Obviously I don't know what his role at the end will be but I think he's one of the great underused characters of the series along with Demandred, Shaidar Haran and a couple others. Maybe Jordan didn't know how to write them in more often while still keeping them as mysterious. It would be a problem. Or maybe he just didn't see them that way and didn't care. Either way, I think it's a shame.

[balefired-ed2]

 

 

Am I the only one that likes Fain? Can't go past a good crazy villain.

Fain is a hoot, not my favorite but he is definitely a fun villain.

 

 

I really liked Fain and even just the general idea of Fain for the first half of the series, but it's hard to keep liking a guy who's never around. Obviously I don't know what his role at the end will be but I think he's one of the great underused characters of the series along with Demandred, Shaidar Haran and a couple others. Maybe Jordan didn't know how to write them in more often while still keeping them as mysterious. It would be a problem. Or maybe he just didn't see them that way and didn't care. Either way, I think it's a shame.

 

I gotta chime in on Fain as well. He seems to be one of only a few villains to really be truly effective, as wherever he goes he sows chaos and evil, is always able to make an escape, and constantly sees his power grow.

 

The only other villain I can think of whose actions we have seen on screen and hasn't been a failure in at least some way is Taim.

 

Edit: I kind of forgot the whole Two Rivers battle in there somehow, but Fain still left that place dodging an enemy (Luc/Isam) and left with a hard core of human minions. Even when he fails he succeeds.

Edited November 30, 2012 by balefired-ed2