The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

[mbuehner]

I'm thinking that Gawyn has 'broken' off from his traditional duties in Andor and wants to stay by Egwene's side 

But Elayne was fine with him doing effectively that in TOM and allowed him to do so even going to the point of encouraging him to do so.

She could not really expect to call back the Amrylin seat's warder anyway.

Unless for some reason she desperately wants his aid to defend Caemlyn, unlikely though.

 

My read is that Elayne will be true to form and rush off to fight for an already lost Caemlyn despite everyone else on the planets entreaties not to. It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about.  So if Egwene disagrees with her, and she goes to fight alone, she may well be thinking of her brother as one of the many people who aren't willing to side with her idiocy, and this would be an appropriate quote. And perhaps Egwene even gave him the choice and he declined.  Of course from Elayne's perspective he's choosing not to help her (as everyone else wisely decides as well) instead of simply making the smartest choice to fight the LB.

We already know that Elayne has decided not to take back Caemlyn. 

 

Do we? Its that stupid chapter 2 we cant get a transcript for isnt it? I thought she was just proud of Rand for trying to manipulate her and wasnt going to charge back into the city, but did she definitely say she wasnt going to fight in Andor? And if she did it seems like this quote contradicts that.

[Suttree]

It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about. 

Yeah makes sense. She totally has shown to be entirely stupid and short sighted in gaining the throne and planning for Andor's future.

[sVieira151]

What about Galad. Is there anyway in which he could get caught up in pissing Elayne off?

[fionwe1987]

I'm thinking that Gawyn has 'broken' off from his traditional duties in Andor and wants to stay by Egwene's side 

But Elayne was fine with him doing effectively that in TOM and allowed him to do so even going to the point of encouraging him to do so.

She could not really expect to call back the Amrylin seat's warder anyway.

Unless for some reason she desperately wants his aid to defend Caemlyn, unlikely though.

 

My read is that Elayne will be true to form and rush off to fight for an already lost Caemlyn despite everyone else on the planets entreaties not to. It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about.  So if Egwene disagrees with her, and she goes to fight alone, she may well be thinking of her brother as one of the many people who aren't willing to side with her idiocy, and this would be an appropriate quote. And perhaps Egwene even gave him the choice and he declined.  Of course from Elayne's perspective he's choosing not to help her (as everyone else wisely decides as well) instead of simply making the smartest choice to fight the LB.

We already know that Elayne has decided not to take back Caemlyn. 

 

Do we? Its that stupid chapter 2 we cant get a transcript for isnt it? I thought she was just proud of Rand for trying to manipulate her and wasnt going to charge back into the city, but did she definitely say she wasnt going to fight in Andor? And if she did it seems like this quote contradicts that.

There's a large difference between taking back Caemlyn and fighting in Andor. Even Perrin and Rand agreed that they need to pen up the Trollocs in Caemlyn, and close/destroy the Gateway.

 

And yes, its in Chapter 2.

[mbuehner]

It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about. 

Yeah makes sense. She totally has shown to be entirely stupid and short sighted in gaining the throne and planning for Andor's future.

 

If she didn't have very good people to pull her bacon from the fire time and again she'd be dead 30 times over. And not for calculated risks- more like 'oh the B'A', i'll just roll on over there and mop them up real quick instead of dropping 50 kinswomen and 1000 guards on their hideout. What could go wrong?'  Or- 'maybe it would be a 'good' idea to bring some guards into the dungeons with me, considering that's their JOB and all. But, eh, what could go wrong?' Or, of course- 'I'm sure a little brick and a guard or two will stop anybody trying to get to the waygate. What. Could. Go. Wrong.' She's always been an impulsive dope, she even commiserates about it with Gawyn in the last book.

[Ishy_Reborn]

It is all pure speculation but I would hazard a guess that it is Galad to whom she is referring and somewhere later in the book. She would of course be referring to he and his whitecloak army and wanting his break from royalty in Andor to be clean.

[mbuehner]

I'm thinking that Gawyn has 'broken' off from his traditional duties in Andor and wants to stay by Egwene's side 

But Elayne was fine with him doing effectively that in TOM and allowed him to do so even going to the point of encouraging him to do so.

She could not really expect to call back the Amrylin seat's warder anyway.

Unless for some reason she desperately wants his aid to defend Caemlyn, unlikely though.

 

My read is that Elayne will be true to form and rush off to fight for an already lost Caemlyn despite everyone else on the planets entreaties not to. It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about.  So if Egwene disagrees with her, and she goes to fight alone, she may well be thinking of her brother as one of the many people who aren't willing to side with her idiocy, and this would be an appropriate quote. And perhaps Egwene even gave him the choice and he declined.  Of course from Elayne's perspective he's choosing not to help her (as everyone else wisely decides as well) instead of simply making the smartest choice to fight the LB.

We already know that Elayne has decided not to take back Caemlyn. 

 

Do we? Its that stupid chapter 2 we cant get a transcript for isnt it? I thought she was just proud of Rand for trying to manipulate her and wasnt going to charge back into the city, but did she definitely say she wasnt going to fight in Andor? And if she did it seems like this quote contradicts that.

There's a large difference between taking back Caemlyn and fighting in Andor. Even Perrin and Rand agreed that they need to pen up the Trollocs in Caemlyn, and close/destroy the Gateway.

 

And yes, its in Chapter 2.

 

Neither of which require her personal attention... considering she can't really channel, and is theoretically commanding 2 nations. Popping the way gate is going to require more channeling power than she has at her disposal (minimum 13 women and a sa'angreal), so thats either Rand or Egwene's issue. Keeping trollocs penned up in Caemlyn is trivial.

[Vambram]

The fact that Elayne thought "He wishes the break to be clean," tells me that she is thinking about Rand. My first instinct on this quote is that Elayne is referring to Rand.

Gawyn or Galad could be the man in Elayne's thoughts here. But I am going to go with my first guess and say "he" is Rand al'Thor.

[Selene's Shadow]

It is all pure speculation but I would hazard a guess that it is Galad to whom she is referring and somewhere later in the book. She would of course be referring to he and his whitecloak army and wanting his break from royalty in Andor to be clean.

I do not think she has ever considered Galad's connection to Andor and the royalty to be all that great and I do not think it is something of much substance.

[Suttree]

If she didn't have very good people to pull her bacon from the fire time and again she'd be dead 30 times over. And not for calculated risks- more like 'oh the B'A', i'll just roll on over there and mop them up real quick instead of dropping 50 kinswomen and 1000 guards on their hideout. What could go wrong?'  Or- 'maybe it would be a 'good' idea to bring some guards into the dungeons with me, considering that's their JOB and all. But, eh, what could go wrong?' Or, of course- 'I'm sure a little brick and a guard or two will stop anybody trying to get to the waygate. What. Could. Go. Wrong.' She's always been an impulsive dope, she even commiserates about it with Gawyn in the last book.

With the BA hideout the plan was very good. She used all the resources to hand and neatly hamstrung the BA member in her group with the linking trick. She had more than enough back up for the intelligence she had, was dealing with time constraints and used all the resources to hand(she could not use the kin or WFs and we saw how effective more guards would have been with the charge where they were slaughtered). It took a bad turn of fate and an unknown "shock pistol" from the AoL to thwart it.

 

With the dungeon she did alert the guards, there was absolutely zero reason to suspect a DF jail break at that very second. The prisoners were shielded and she had an item of the power that deflects weaves. There was nothing dangerous about that situation that she could have reasonably foreseen.

 

With the waygate Rand told her it was secure. That had nothing to do with Elayne IRC.

[mbuehner]

 

Sigh.

 

With the BA hideout the plan was very good. She used all the resources to hand and neatly hamstrung the BA member in her group with the linking trick. She had more than enough back up for the intelligence she had, was dealing with time constraints and used all the resources to hand(she could not use the kin or WFs and we saw how effective more guards would have been with the charge where they were slaughtered). It took a bad turn of fate and an unknown "shock pistol" from the AoL to thwart it.

 

With the dungeon she did alert the guards, there was absolutely zero reason to suspect a DF jail break at that very second. The prisoners were shielded and she had an item of the power that deflects weaves. There was nothing dangerous about that situation that she could have reasonably foreseen.

 

With the waygate Rand told her it was secure. That had nothing to do with Elayne IRC.

1. Obviously not. That's why its called the unexpected. Remember how Rand went to meet the Daughter of the Nine Moons (both times). Its called overkill- and it paid off when Semirhage 'unexpectedly' ended up ambushing him. Fortunately he brought a bazooka to a gun fight. Had it been Elyane we would be wringing our wrists about how she couldn't possibly know something bad might happen.

 

2.Unexpectedly. After the first little go round above, she might realize dealing with Black sisters in a world full of dark friends is... well. unexpected. And dangerous.

 

3. Rand did not deal with the Caemlyn waygate, or else it would have been dealt with, like the rest. He sent world to Elayne and she sent masons to deal with it.

[Ishy_Reborn]

@selene it would stand to reason that given the fact he is Elayne's half brother that the connection is substantial despite their disagreements growing up.

 

She has matured and he has begun to. In my opinion anyway.

[Suttree]

1. What else would you have her due given she had no time and had no other channelers to use? She took every "reasonable" precaution.

 

2. I will grant you that was impulsive but it could hardly be called stupid given the circumstances.

 

3. KoD

“Loial, I’ve sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and I put a very nasty trap on the one that was cut open near Fal Dara, but I couldn’t find the one near Far Madding. Even when I know there’s a Waygate actually in a city, I can’t find it by myself, and then there are all those cities that don’t exist anymore. I need you to find the rest for me, Loial, or Trollocs will be able to flood into every country at once, and no one will know they’re coming until they’re in the heart of Andor or Cairhien.”

That is why Verin wrote in the letter that the gate was thought sealed but they were wrong.

[mbuehner]

1. What else would you have her due given she had no time and had no other channelers to use? She took every "reasonable" precaution.

 

She had no other channelers? So who was it that ended up blasting her out then?

 

 

2. I will grant you that was impulsive but it could hardly be called stupid given the circumstances.

It was stupid, because its stupid to be impulsive when so much relies on you. I'm not saying the overall idea was stupid- by the spur of the moment execution was pointless, and hence stupid.  Bad things happen to careless people, its part of murphys law.

 

 

3. KoD

 

Thanks for the quote :) I'm not entirely convinced- sorry dont have any references but I could swear he started sealing waygates after he skipped out of Caemlyn. Could he be talking about a different waygate? Its a big nation.

[Ishy_Reborn]

How about young and inexperienced. Somewhere between stupid and impulsive.

[yoniy0]

This is not the place to debate Elayne's character. Kindly take it elsewhere, if you will.

Unlikely even if Egwene and Elayne end up having a huge disagreement and Gawyn takes Egwene's side?

There's actually another possibility. Gawyn could have something to do with killing Rand, which would really put a damper on their relationship.

 

And yet, I don't see it. My first instinct was also Rand, but fionwe has a point about the Bond. Unless Rand insists on being released from it before he goes to SG, this will take some mental gymnastics. Still, Elayne does sound emotional about the thing, which I don't think she'd be about Mat. Not like this.

[Suttree]

Come on now, we saw what it took to get the WFs involved and they certainly would not have done so to begin with. Go back and reread the chapter if you will. She had no other channeling resources to use in that situation and her plan was solid. Again she took every "reasonable" precaution.

 

As for the waygate there is only one in Caemlyn. It's on Rand..

 

Edit: Sorry yony0, didn't see your post until after.

[herid]

@Vieira and yoniy

 

yes, upon further reflection I don't think it can be Gawyn. Bryne seems the most likely.

[Amandera]

I'm reasonably certain it's Bryne. He had his break with Andor and Morgase/Elayne. He gave his allegiance to Egwene and fell in love with Siuan. He doesn't want to go back. It fits perfectly.

 

Rand, Mat or Gawyn does not. She and Rand have been with each other for a total of half a week and they are completely in love with each other. That relationship is plot-protected and nothing's going to happen to it. Mat wants to go to Tuon, but that is the break with Elayne, the memory implies there was already a break and whoever it is wants to leave it at that. As for Gawyn, he'll go wherever Elayne or Egwene wants him to like a puppy.

 

It's Bryne.

[mbuehner]

Sorry for the threadjack! And apologize to Elayne for missing who first sealed her waygate.

 

I'll throw out another name just for grins- Thom?

[sVieira151]

Actually, what about Guybon? I can't think up any reasons where he would choose to leave but he is another possibility. And i think he is likely to bring out some form of emotional response considering all he has done to help Elayne during her succession campaign and since then as well. But yeah, Bryne seems like a possibility. Especially now he is both married and the warder to Suian.

[driedraspberry]

Given how emotional that phrase is I'd guess Gawyn. The breaking could simply refer to his relationship to Elayne/Andor following marrying Egwene.

 

Rand was my first thought (wishful thinking mostly), but it doesn'treally fit. Mostly because I doubt Elayne would expect him to fight alongside her considering his role.

[ArveduiEreinion]

I would say elayne to gareth bryne

 

This...

[fionwe1987]

I'm thinking that Gawyn has 'broken' off from his traditional duties in Andor and wants to stay by Egwene's side 

But Elayne was fine with him doing effectively that in TOM and allowed him to do so even going to the point of encouraging him to do so.

She could not really expect to call back the Amrylin seat's warder anyway.

Unless for some reason she desperately wants his aid to defend Caemlyn, unlikely though.

 

My read is that Elayne will be true to form and rush off to fight for an already lost Caemlyn despite everyone else on the planets entreaties not to. It makes sense because its the most stupid, short sighted, rash thing to do, and its Elayne we're talking about.  So if Egwene disagrees with her, and she goes to fight alone, she may well be thinking of her brother as one of the many people who aren't willing to side with her idiocy, and this would be an appropriate quote. And perhaps Egwene even gave him the choice and he declined.  Of course from Elayne's perspective he's choosing not to help her (as everyone else wisely decides as well) instead of simply making the smartest choice to fight the LB.

We already know that Elayne has decided not to take back Caemlyn. 

 

Do we? Its that stupid chapter 2 we cant get a transcript for isnt it? I thought she was just proud of Rand for trying to manipulate her and wasnt going to charge back into the city, but did she definitely say she wasnt going to fight in Andor? And if she did it seems like this quote contradicts that.

There's a large difference between taking back Caemlyn and fighting in Andor. Even Perrin and Rand agreed that they need to pen up the Trollocs in Caemlyn, and close/destroy the Gateway.

 

And yes, its in Chapter 2.

 

Neither of which require her personal attention... considering she can't really channel, and is theoretically commanding 2 nations. Popping the way gate is going to require more channeling power than she has at her disposal (minimum 13 women and a sa'angreal), so thats either Rand or Egwene's issue. Keeping trollocs penned up in Caemlyn is trivial.

Of course they need her personal attention. She's an extremely powerful channeler. There are less than 15 women who match or exceed her. She can't sit on the sidelines of this forever. Sure, she needs to take more protection. She needs to not rush headlong. But I doubt she's talking about single combat with the Trollocs here.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I agree. Bryne is the leading candidate.