Dark Prophecy from ToM

[Louise]

i posted this somewhere else but this seems like the thread to say it in..i think theres a good case of the broken wolf being Lan, the verse already mentions rand, mat and perin so i dont think it is one of them but if it is then it is probs perin..its the way the verse is layed out.."Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers"the "and" in Yea, and the Broken Wolf implies 'oh and him aswell, don't forget to mention that guy..' do u get what i mean..

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe, in this case, that 'Yea' is intended to have a more archaic definition. I take it to mean indeed or truly, this would change the whole structure of the line in comparison to how you're looking at it.

We actually asked Peter Ahlstrom about this, and he said something along the lines of 'shouldn't read too much into it because it's just a throwaway prophecy word meant to sound pompous'. I quoted him in the old thread, which was deleted by the guy who started it (apparently because I started a poll, which made him feel like his thread was excessive, or something, but that's why we can't delete our own posts any more).

...meant to sound pompous, love it!! I sometimes wonder if they laugh themselves to sleep at some of the things that the fandom picks apart and reads meaning in when there's actually nothing there.

 

I've actually been wodering about the lack of a delete option. Though I do agreee with the reasoning. Deleting a thread for that seems excessive in itself.

 

After reading through this thread, and because I've started a full re-read of the series, I've changed my vote from Bashere to Lan. (Though I still think Bashere is a baddy.)

Couldn't agree more, Bashere has to be bad! He's trusted by Rand, (which is obviously a rarity) and therefore in a terrific postition to wreak havoc for the Shhadow. It would be an excellent twist, that would be a good step towards making up for the complete uselessness of the Forsaken.

(A little off topic but I couldn't help myself, sorry!)

[FarShainMael]

@Louii, you may enjoy this thread:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50915-the-davram-bashere-darkfriend-theory/page__hl__bashere+wolf

[Louise]

@Louii, you may enjoy this thread:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50915-the-davram-bashere-darkfriend-theory/page__hl__bashere+wolf

 

I did indeed. Thanks for the link! I shall now have to summarise my own thoughts into coherency so I can add to it. (that's no small task )

 

I'm quite surprised that there are so few people who suspect him. Good to know I have a companion in the Bashere's a baddie camp. Myself, I'm totally convinced!! I will in fact be extremely disappointed if it isn't true.

 

Off topic, once again... I'll be good now I swear

[FarShainMael]

I've bumped it for you on the other board have fun..

 

..now where were we.. Oh yes. Lan. Almost the first time Rand sees him, he thinks 'wolf'. And Aan'allein is certainly known by Death; and he's bout to fall and be consumed by the forces of the Shadow - unless Logain arrives quickly!

[Rufae]

What if when Rand breaks the Seals, the blast from the DO kills Rand. This also kills Moridin due to the Link. Then the Dark One does a Slayer-esque move and unites the souls of Moridin and Rand/LTT into a figure known as "Lord of the Evening"?

 

Then who is the Broken Champion that he is supposed to face?

 

I can only think that the Broken Champion wuold be Narishima. He was said by Rand to be "He Who Comes After".

[coolpool]

well the thing i said was just a long shot anyway.. thu there are way more long shot stuff out there in DM :P

but like others have said, Lan does get discribed as wolf like alot... and when i first read the prophicy in ToM i was supriced wen i actually thought that the broken wolf was Lan straight away.. it was really weird but Lan just felt right.. like with perin i knew perin is who i shud think, but it seemed like a red herrin

 

also its the way its the verse is layed out, rands been mentioned once already in the verse at the begining, why mention him again with a name that barly apllies to rand where all the other name apply to rand so much more that there is generally no dipute that they are on about rand, like cudn't have they used the 'broken worm' instead if it was on about rand etc... it just doesn't make sense to be rand tho i have read the arguemnts for rand and its good but too much of a long shot to ever be totally viable

 

more so

 

it goes on to rand then perin.. so if its is rand, y not put the consumed by the midnight towers bit by the rand bit, it wud look more dire for rand and dire seems to be quite a big thing in this prophecy, like it wud be saying basically, rand will free the dark on then be consumed.. if i was a dark friend with a prophicy, like that sounds more in the shadows interest as it is all in one and looks more bad for rand.. do u get what i mean like.. :/

 

also like, there is way more wolf refereces to Lan than rand, which to me makes it more likely to be Lan.. tho not to ignore the obvious that perin has the bigger wolf reference than lan like.. nd the sentence structure cud be a follow on about the 'blacksmith' meaning its on about perin.. but i just feel likes its Lan... its weird but i just do like...

[Entreri]

Broken Wolf = Rand

 

The death of anybody else will never have that kind of impact on the Light forces.

 

Rand is certainly going to die at least once in AMOL. Too many viewings of this. Of course he will be brought back, unless DO wins and destroys the Wheel.

 

Death is capitalized = Moridin

[FarShainMael]

'His destruction' does not necessarily mean 'his death'. Mesaana has suffered destruction (ToM Glossary) but she is still alive. Also, 'his destruction' may mean destruction of him or destruction by him.

 

Even so, I agree: Rand is almost certainly going to die (again IMO).

[Entreri]

Min's viewing: "She glared at Alivia, who her viewing had said would help Rand die".

 

Aelfinn: "To live, you must die."

 

 

Min is never wrong, the Fox and Snakes are never wrong = 100% certainty of Rand's death.

 

This later prophecy hints at this death before the conclusion of the series and his resurrection as per Aelfinn.

 

"BROKEN Wolf...shall fall"..."And the Lord of the Evening shall face the BROKEN champion", and shall spill his blood..."

[FarShainMael]

My professional background is engineering research, so I'm used to examining situations from various possible angles. It's a habit I can't break, so bear with me..

 

I've already said, I agree, Rand will (almost certainly) die. Min saw it, the finns saw it. Various prophecies speak of him spilling his blood in sacrifice.

 

Nevertheless, each of these is open to multiple interpretations. Min's viewings are sometims literal, sometimes not. The finns are masters of obscurity and ambiguity, like any good oracle. (Who/what are the two who must be as one, for example?) The spilling of blood doesn't necessarily have to kill him (it would be stretching things a bit for him to donate a unit of blood and empty the blood bag on the slopes of Shayol Ghul.. even though this would fulfil the prophecies, to the letter!)

 

The Dark Prophecy has its own ambiguities. I've already cited the 'destruction does not necessarily mean death' one. It could refer to the destruction Mat will cause with his cannons, or Perrin with his Power-wrought hammer.

 

Again, the Broken Wolf is not necessarily the same person as the Broken Champion. In fact that would be extremely unlikely; if he has fallen and been consumed by the Midnight Towers, it's not very likely that he would survive to be faced by the Lord of the Evening.

[Mablung]

I think cindy is right about this. It has to be Farstrider. The "Midnight Towers" here could be a parallel to the 'Finn realm.

[Entreri]

3 ta'averen, Shai'tan and the Chosen are the only players mentioned.

 

The only question that remains, who is the Broken Wolf, Rand or Perrin?

 

Perrin is clearly a Wolf, and Death/Moridin knows of him and send Grandael/Slayer after him.

 

 

I would say that it is Rand for the reasons above. Rand and Jesus parallels abound, plus in ToM, he did say he is not a weapon.

[clu7ch]

...Could be Bela. A horse is a pretty poor wolf, she just doesn't realize she's a horse yet. Still trying to figure out what she's destined to be...

[mackoY-kun]

Aelfinn: "To live, you must die."

 

err... The Question here is important to interpret the whole meaning.

 

Q: # How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

A: # "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

The Answer is "for him win to survive" the last battle. He can "live, but lose" in the last battle or he can also "die and win" and any number of things.

 

@ Jain Farstrider being the broken wolf: that's my first impression on first reading ToM, but few here are swayed to my way of thinking. I'm a bit swayed of course, because of a number of things.

 

1. Egwene's dream sequence of 13 "black" towers falling down and growing up again till only 6 remain, one having fallen and rising highest of all. (Possible representation of Forsaken)

 

2. Towers of Midnight Glossary reference in ToM.

Towers of Midnight, the: Thirteen fortresses of unpolished black marble located in Imfaral, Seanchan. At the time of

the Consolidation of Seanchan, it was the center of military might. The final battle of the Consolidation took place

there, leaving Hawkwing's descendants in power. Since that time, it has been unoccupied. Legend has it that in

time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the Towers of Midnight and "right that which is wrong." See also

Consolidation.

[Jemlin]

ToM,Epilogue

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning,8 and

the First Among Vermin9 lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who

will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and

be consumed by the Midnight Towers.10 And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

 

 

I am wondering if the Broken Wolf is referring to Taim, and not necessarily to any of our heroes.

 

Think about it this way:

 

"Broken Wolf" He once claimed to be the Dragon, but was "broken" and made to submit to the real dragon.

 

"one whome Death has known"; the fact that "Death" seems to signify an entity rather than act, it makes me think he encoutnered the Darkone, 13x13 trick perhaps.

 

"fall and be consumed by Midnight Towers" perhaps here is a combination of his mission being undermined by the Aes Sedai and Good Asha'man, and the Foresaken in charge take him out.

 

The knowledge of there having been a dark Leader of the Asha'men and his subsequent fall could "shake" the will and hearts of all the male channelers, and cause a serious problem for Rand in trying to lead them and their associates at the last Battle.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Clayden69]

erm... was just reading the thread "Stuff Brandon says" alot of talk of the "Broken Crown". Now, I havent read many comments on this thread (sorry!) so if this has been said before ignore me (you probably do that anyway)

 

 

Saldaean crown is the "Broken Crown". Perrin is a wolfbrohter. if he gets the Broken Crown does Perrin=Broken Wolf?? Might be too obvious for Jordan though

[mackoY-kun]

err.. lame pun on words? I don't think so...

[Taelin]

Something everyone has failed to mention or seemed not to notice... the Midnight Towers are in Seanchan, per the Glossary in ToM...

 

"Thirteen fortresses of unpolished black marble located in Imfaral, Seanchan. At the time of the Consolidation of Seanchan, it was the center of military might. The final battle of the Consolidation took place there, leaving Hawkwing's descendants in power. Since that time, it has been unoccupied. Legend has it that in a time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the Towers of Midnight and 'right that which is wrong.'"

 

We know that Seanchan has gone through a revolt, as page 54 of ToM states "a murderer openly ruled in Seandar".

 

The time of Dire need is now, with the LB starting and the empire shattered.

 

The only other look we have had at dark prophecy was in TGH, where reference was made to ISAM & LUC... "one did live and one did die, but both are..." This could be the Broken Wolf, as he is the closest thing the shadow has to a hero other than the Forsaken. We know that Slayer is really ISAM/LUC from Perrin;s observation in TSR. "Slayer was Luc? Slayer looked like Lan, where Luc looked if anyone like Rand." Isam was Lan's cousin, and Luc was Rand's uncle.

 

So, the Broken Wolf has been known by Death, and has business in Seanchan Rand and Mat both fit this category, but what if Slayer is present? Then we throw Perrin into the mix just to be confused all over again.

 

Then again, light and dark prophecy can't both be right.

[Terez]

Something everyone has failed to mention or seemed not to notice... the Midnight Towers are in Seanchan, per the Glossary in ToM...

We've known that for a long time. It was also mentioned in the wind scene.

 

So, the Broken Wolf has been known by Death, and has business in Seanchan

The Towers of Midnight also refer to the Forsaken. There's evidence that Ishamael was responsible for their construction. That's why there are thirteen fortresses. Egwene also had a dream paralleling the midnight towers to the Forsaken.

 

Then again, light and dark prophecy can't both be right.

Both are true; they're just told from different perspectives. According to Brandon, both will be fulfilled.

[WhiskyJack]

Broken Wolf is Lan. I refuse to discuss this any further;)

[Corvinus]

Another argument in Rand's favor:

 

I was thinking of the Midnight Towers in the prophecy, and how they very likely refer to the Forsaken. At first, I thought that this disputes Rand's candidacy to the Broken Wolf title because every time the Forsaken have gone up against Rand they lost. And in all honesty, I find it unfair that Rand gets 3 different names in the prophecy, while Mat and Perrin only get one.

BUT... now thinking more about the Towers, I realize that the Broken Wolf must be Rand and he will be "consumed" by them.(as in lose to the Forsaken) Until now Rand's confrontations have been one-on-one with the Forsaken, and he always came on top. Then you have the cleansing of saidin, where a bunch of Forsaken showed up, and where Rand did not even directly participate. But despite them showing up in numbers, they did not act in unison, and they were beaten.

Now, it looks like the story is heading towards a major showdown between Rand and Moridin, and though part of it will probably be at the mental level, there will also be a physical battle. Why? Because Rand said in ToM that the only option left was war, the Shadow had tried to win by other means and failed. But for that showdown you have Rand, the most powerful channeler in the world, and a super ta'veren, against Moridin another powerful channeler, and user of the True Power. But Moridin now has what other Forsaken did not truly have in the past: the complete "cooperation" of other Forsaken; he controls Moghi and Cyndane, and most likely Graendal, too. Demandred is the only one left not under Moridin's direct control. He could easily destroy their mindtraps, and they would become his puppets, and he could use them as weapons against Rand. So in the end if Moridin does beat Rand, is with the help of the other Forsaken.

I also predict that Moridin will let Demandred go at it against Rand only to lose and die, or at least get him to fail so he would have an excuse to mindtrap Demandred as well.

[Eht Slat Meit]

It's been a long while since I speculated on this last, but after re-reading on the subject, I'm still inclined to go by my gut instinct: the Broken Wolf is not a single person, because not one of the men listed other than Rand has captured the hearts and souls of the entire world, so much so that this person's destruction would shake everyone's will, bringing fear and sorrow. And Rand... simply does not fit the role. He is the Dragon, not the Wolf.

 

My belief is that the "Broken Wolf" is either the leadership of the Borderlands, or more likely every last one of the Borderlands themselves. It's poised to happen; they are under siege, and it is not they who will face the Lord of the Evening at the Last Battle, but the Dragon. They are renowned the world over for their endless fight against the encroachment of the Blight and what that Blight represents. When the Borderlands fall, lands even as distant as Seandar will know fear, and be shaken to the core simply by truth of what it represents - the absolute destruction of mankind's defenders by the armies of the Forsaken, the so-called Midnight Towers of Egwene's vision.

[Taelin]

Broken Wolf is Lan. I refuse to discuss this any further;)

 

There have been a lot of references involving Rand and Death ("Embrace Death" from tGH for one), and there has been a lot of imagery in the reading comparing him to wolves. His life is certainly in danger, and his death would greatly impact all the borderlands from a morale standpoint. I'm inclined to change my vote to Lan, but I cannot help but think that he would be referred to as the "crane" in prophecy, or the "man alone", unless RJ is throwing us a few herring bones to choke our logic... not that thus has ever happened in the past . I'm just thrilled that I correctly tabbed who killed Asmodean 14 years ago, and how.

[Guest Wafvels]

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whome Death(implying a person by capital letter) has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his distruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

 

Somebody else already shared some of these points but I'ld like to add to them. I highly doubt it could be Rand as most seem to think. Why split the imagery between Dragon and Wolf. Doesn't make sense.

Also, i don't have a copy handy to recount exactly but I always kind of linked the towers of midnight etc to be linked slightly to the watch towers that have fallen to the blight along the Blightborder.

As for who I think may actually be the Broken Wolf. I don't see why it should automatically be assumed that it's one of the good guys. Only one character through the entire series has really been wholly Broken to me and knows Death. Not to mention the imagery of a hunter. Also his capacity to downright mess a WHOLE lot of stuff up. My money is on Fain/Mordeth. He still has a massive part to play obviously.

 

 

Then again I just read the FULL prophecy linked up above and am now completely torn wether this refers to Fain/Mordeth, or "First among Vermin" does....3:30am....Curses!

[mbuehner]

What about Moridin? Death has known would be a double meaning for him, and if he staggered the towers of midnight would surely devour him. This could play along with the Body Switching theory, or perhaps some illusion of some kind that people think it is the Dragon that has fallen, leading to the fear and sorrow in the hearts of men. No idea on the Broken Wolf connection though, if its Moridin it will be something as yet unrevealed (which also applies to several other less likely suspects of course).