Chapter 2 Audio Available on Tor

[Hopefire]

I wonder if Elayne calling Avi a gem was written with the same intent, the emergence of 'new' slang.

[Sid]

It's not just Mat that says it though, nor is it a trend started with Mat or any one character that can be followed by them having contact with other people. From one book to the next, people all over the westlands suddenly started saying 'bloody ashes' out of literally nowhere. A change like that has to be implemented organically if it's intentional, otherwise it reads like a big screw up. Some people don't mind, I suppose, but a lot of people do. This is the Wheel of Time, after all. Robert Jordan spent 23 years of his life writing this and it deserves more than implementing unnecessary changes in the manner of pounding a square peg into a round hole. Figuring out how the plot happens without busting apart the framework put in place by the eleven previous volumes was obviously no easy task, and one that was not accomplished I might add, so why mess with what already can't-miss 100% works? Our age, considering what the series tells us, isn't the Fourth age anyway, so rushing a saying to be closer to what people say nowadays doesn't make a lick of sense no matter how you slice it.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

comments (and most disturbed me) was:

The fact that Maria and Brandon had to ''push'' to get even one round of Beta!

Fo RealZ???

That was my reaction as well. An interesting and disconcerting reveal by Peter.

 

 

 

It's not a bizarre reason. It's financial.

E-books...On the other hand, Jim had a mistrust for the medium, and Harriet hangs to it as well.

Harriet does NOT (as the case with the E Books) do EVERY SINGLE thing only for the fan's instant desires.

And with reason. I stand behind her on this. After the Google Books Canada prologue scandal it would be most unwise to realease the ebook at the same time as the hard-copy. Probably just confirmed her suspicions.

 

Brandon's answer is in the interview database. Personally I don't like "bloody ashes."

I've done this intentionally.

Thanks for sharing that link. It didn't seem intentional while reading it (a view others on dragonmount seem to share). I personally don't like the rephrasing either.

[batcaver]

If I can bring up old stuff for a second...I don't understand why so many people are whining about the second chapter being audio. Sure, I can understand that it may not be your chosen format, but for God's sake, it's only a single chapter. You're going to have the whole thing in text anyway in a couple of months and you'll probably want to start at the beginning anyway. It's not as if you had to pay for it like you did with the prologue or jump through hoops to listen to it. Furthermore, Michael Kramer and Kate Reading are awesome at reading/performing the audiobooks. It's not as if they're unprofessional. In fact, since BS took over for RJ they're narration is probably the single biggest thing that's helped me stay grounded in the story through the transition. I can understand that if you've always read the text you've got a certain voice in your head for each character and have been pronouncing certain words a certain way, but come on, you're lucky their is an audiobook to promote or else they'd probably not upped another chapter (obviously I'm leaving aside the quality of the content, since that's a personal matter). Sheesh. Seems to me there's plenty of legitimate stuff to complain about without resorting to this pointless contrariness.

[The Fisher King]

If I can bring up old stuff for a second...I don't understand why so many people are whining about the second chapter being audio. Sure, I can understand that it may not be your chosen format, but for God's sake, it's only a single chapter. You're going to have the whole thing in text anyway in a couple of months and you'll probably want to start at the beginning anyway. It's not as if you had to pay for it like you did with the prologue or jump through hoops to listen to it. Furthermore, Michael Kramer and Kate Reading are awesome at reading/performing the audiobooks. It's not as if they're unprofessional. In fact, since BS took over for RJ they're narration is probably the single biggest thing that's helped me stay grounded in the story through the transition. I can understand that if you've always read the text you've got a certain voice in your head for each character and have been pronouncing certain words a certain way, but come on, you're lucky their is an audiobook to promote or else they'd probably not upped another chapter (obviously I'm leaving aside the quality of the content, since that's a personal matter). Sheesh. Seems to me there's plenty of legitimate stuff to complain about without resorting to this pointless contrariness.

 

Thaaaaaaank YOU! There is wisdom in those words. I have MANY criticisms of this WHOLE DEAL and everone involved, but to be fair, we need to give credit where it is due as well. We have been GIVEN the prologue. GIVEN chapter one. GIVEN unprecedented access to these people. I mean, for Light's sake - Brandon Sanderson's ASSISTANT is on this here very Board taking questions!!! AND, yeah - the entire 900 page deal is being sold in just a couple months now!

 

Its good to criticize. I do it a lot when I feel its warranted. But its good to realize now and then in this instant access, overprivledged, entitled era that many people (though NOT everyone) live in that we also have a pretty good deal going and I don't mind occassionally saying:

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fish

[batcaver]

If I can bring up old stuff for a second...I don't understand why so many people are whining about the second chapter being audio. Sure, I can understand that it may not be your chosen format, but for God's sake, it's only a single chapter. You're going to have the whole thing in text anyway in a couple of months and you'll probably want to start at the beginning anyway. It's not as if you had to pay for it like you did with the prologue or jump through hoops to listen to it. Furthermore, Michael Kramer and Kate Reading are awesome at reading/performing the audiobooks. It's not as if they're unprofessional. In fact, since BS took over for RJ they're narration is probably the single biggest thing that's helped me stay grounded in the story through the transition. I can understand that if you've always read the text you've got a certain voice in your head for each character and have been pronouncing certain words a certain way, but come on, you're lucky their is an audiobook to promote or else they'd probably not upped another chapter (obviously I'm leaving aside the quality of the content, since that's a personal matter). Sheesh. Seems to me there's plenty of legitimate stuff to complain about without resorting to this pointless contrariness.

 

Thaaaaaaank YOU! There is wisdom in those words. I have MANY criticisms of this WHOLE DEAL and everone involved, but to be fair, we need to give credit where it is due as well. We have been GIVEN the prologue. GIVEN chapter one. GIVEN unprecedented access to these people. I mean, for Light's sake - Brandon Sanderson's ASSISTANT is on this here very Board taking questions!!! AND, yeah - the entire 900 page deal is being sold in just a couple months now!

 

Its good to criticize. I do it a lot when I feel its warranted. But its good to realize now and then in this instant access, overprivledged, entitled era that many people (though NOT everyone) live in that we also have a pretty good deal going and I don't mind occassionally saying:

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fish

That's a very good point about entitlement in general.

 

Tor does a lot of pretty good stuff for their fans (even though Leigh Butler's rereads made me tear my hair out - is there a topic anywhere about that?), often for free. Not saying they never drop the ball, but as you said, credit where it's due. From what I understand, if this were GRRM's site all the dissenters would have probably been banned by now and certainly no one involved with him would be answering questions. The WOT folks are kind of great in that regard.

[Pilz]

Is 'bloody goat's left stone' new? I can't remember

[Suttree]

From what I understand, if this were GRRM's site all the dissenters would have probably been banned by now...

 

Westeros? Nahhh, they are pretty good over there. Not that you will get any questions answered but there is a fair amount of criticism going around.

[batcaver]

Ha, well I wouldn't know. I based that statement on the likely dubious things said by those "Is Winter Coming?" guys, who are often crazy, occasionally hilarious and probably on crack.

[The Fisher King]

Valar Morghulis...

 

 

Fish

[Maleshub]

Reading "Crimsonthorn" in TPoD, Elayne enters Caemlyn and notices the Aiel:

 

"The people seemed to take no notice of the Aiel, but Elayne did. She loved Aviendha as she did herself, more, but she could not love an army of armed Aiel walking Caemlyn's streets."

 

So, that has me remembering how in Chapter 2 of AMoL, Elayne expresses her hope to Aviendha to have Aiel take part in liberating Caemlyn as "special forces" operating behind enemy lines. Which in turn reminded me how the Aiel fought a shadowspawn army in Caemlyn during Rand's raid that killed Rahvin and saved Andor from that particular Foresaken. Mix that with popular Andoran sentiment to want to send those black-veiled (or was it black-eyed) Aiel back where they belong. And I cannot forget that most of Caemlyn's refugees owe their lives to Talmanes and the Band securing their escape from Caemlyn.

 

That vaunted Andoran pride and independence seems to require quite a bit of "external" help from the Aiel and the Band. And Elayne who couldn't love an Aiel army walking Caemlyn now prays to see an Aiel army walking Caemlyn. How ironic?!

[yoniy0]

How ironic?!

Not that ironic, I don't think, except in the general sense. There's a big difference between fighting Shadowspawn and occupying a city.

 

We have been GIVEN the prologue. GIVEN chapter one. GIVEN unprecedented access to these people. I mean, for Light's sake - Brandon Sanderson's ASSISTANT is on this here very Board taking questions!!! AND, yeah - the entire 900 page deal is being sold in just a couple months now!

Fish, you know you're my buddy, but are you sure you want to use that word? I mean, you had to know someone would call you up on it, so I have to figure you wanted the chance to answer. Go ahead, then: given?

 

For one, we most definitely weren't given the prologue. We were given the opportunity to buy it, for which no thanks are required beyond the act of purchase. For another, we were promised a 2011 release, then promised a 2012 release, then had to contend with a delay because, and this is key, it was supremely important to get this last book right. Can you blame anyone for feeling disappointed and resenting the delay now, that it seems AMoL is set to look just like ToM (however good, there were some real issues with it, and people do have full right to expect that would be addressed)?

[Agitel]

For another, we were promised a 2011 release, then promised a 2012 release, then had to contend with a delay because, and this is key, it was supremely important to get this last book right. Can you blame anyone for feeling disappointed and resenting the delay now, that it seems AMoL is set to look just like ToM (however good, there were some real issues with it, and people do have full right to expect that would be addressed)?

 

I just can't agree with this. We are not entitled to this book. Even with the delays this entire project was pulled off in amazing time, in my opinion. Congrats to everyone involved on that point, at least.

 

EDIT: I have also been meaning to ask what Brandon said or wrote that left fans feeling 'abandoned'. Certainly it wasn't his blog entry on his website about finishing AMoL.

[Suttree]

For one, we most definitely weren't given the prologue. We were given the opportunity to buy it, for which no thanks are required beyond the act of purchase. For another, we were promised a 2011 release, then promised a 2012 release, then had to contend with a delay because, and this is key, it was supremely important to get this last book right. Can you blame anyone for feeling disappointed and resenting the delay now, that it seems AMoL is set to look just like ToM (however good, there were some real issues with it, and people do have full right to expect that would be addressed)?

 

Very well said Yoniy0, I am just going to focus on this ending. I was one of the people that used to fight tooth and nail against those that were mad about the delay. I argued for hours here and at TL that this would be Brandon's best work and the changed process in his writing and push back because this was AMoL and they had to "get things right"(their words) was the best possible thing that could happen. Now we have more of the same with the excerpts. The same mistakes, the same Mat issues, the same lack of polish and Brandon announced he was done far before the extra time was used up. Im still holding out hope and even in the worst case, as my sig says, at least we have the ending.

[yoniy0]

I just can't agree with this. We are not entitled to this book.

We are not. We are entitled to have promises given to us kept, just as anyone else is, in any other context. That is all. I presume you can agree to that much.

[Agitel]

I just can't agree with this. We are not entitled to this book.

We are not. We are entitled to have promises given to us kept, just as anyone else is, in any other context. That is all. I presume you can agree to that much.

 

Are we really disputing over deadlines being pushed back? That just screams fan entitlement. I don't see a deadline for a product release such as this as a promise. This is a business and an art, not a personal relationship.

 

This has nothing to do with my opinion of Brandon, mind. This isn't a defense of Brandon or Harriet or TJ. This goes beyond that in my opinion. There's really not much more to say, as I don't think there's anything to really discuss. I just find it ridiculous. The same goes for the fans howling over GRRM's slow release of Feast and Dance, though the comparison to that is still apples to oranges.

[XXX]

Man I hate audio books. It was terrible.

 

Now about the bonding,isn't there the need for touch to establish the bond,AS always did something on the forehead of the man while the Ashaman sealed it with a kiss.SO now you bond without touch?

[XXX]

So Rand ended Chapter One telling Perrin it was paramount to keep Elayne from going to Caemlyn. What did he do to achieve this goal? He wrote a letter in which he insisted that she must go to Caemlyn ASAP. Great plan, Rand. It really showed the level of maturity you reached thanks to those LTT memories... ;)

 

Hahaha, a scheme a 12 year old would think so.However Elayne thinks it is a great master plan!!

[MasterAblar]

Man I hate audio books. It was terrible.

 

Now about the bonding,isn't there the need for touch to establish the bond,AS always did something on the forehead of the man while the Ashaman sealed it with a kiss.SO now you bond without touch?

 

I don't think so. Elayne wasn't touching Rand when she bonded him.

[The Fisher King]

Yonster...I'm totally with you. Originally, yes, we were going to be allowed to PURCHASE the prologue early, as is tradition, but after the incident with The Google, they went ahead and gave it to us. Chapter one was given to us. Chapter two was given to is - in audio form. Much access to these people is given to us.

 

I just think those are things to appreciate. Does that mean it will be free in January? Of course not. Does that mean that I am still not crushed that this series my departed mom and I started together one day 21 years ago after meeting Mr Jordan is now being finished in a haphazard fashion by people who really seem to just want to b be DONE with it?

 

Trust me. It kills me.

 

I'm just trying to find some positives. I know you don't hate me for that.

 

 

Fish

[Rose]

So Rand ended Chapter One telling Perrin it was paramount to keep Elayne from going to Caemlyn. What did he do to achieve this goal? He wrote a letter in which he insisted that she must go to Caemlyn ASAP. Great plan, Rand. It really showed the level of maturity you reached thanks to those LTT memories... ;)

 

Hahaha, a scheme a 12 year old would think so.However Elayne thinks it is a great master plan!!

 

No, the author thinks it's a great plan. It's not that Elayne is stupid, it's that she's badly written.

 

Despite the issues, I liked the Androl/Pevara scene. The Aviendha/Elayne one made me cringe from beginning to end, though.

 

I firmly think that a lot of this has to do with the chapters being released one by one in isolation. I think most people truly enjoyed TGS and TOM on first read, and only started noticing problems afterwards. Having time to dissect each little section like this is ruining our enjoyment of the story.

[Rose]

Yonster...I'm totally with you. Originally, yes, we were going to be allowed to PURCHASE the prologue early, as is tradition, but after the incident with The Google, they went ahead and gave it to us.

 

Wait, what? People got the prologue for free?

[MasterAblar]

Yonster...I'm totally with you. Originally, yes, we were going to be allowed to PURCHASE the prologue early, as is tradition, but after the incident with The Google, they went ahead and gave it to us.

 

Wait, what? People got the prologue for free?

 

I know right? I'm pretty sure I recall paying for it.

[The Fisher King]

I mighta misremembered. My bad. Oh, well. I spent a total of like two or three bucks on the prologue, chapter one AND chapter two. Ill call that a gift ANY day!!

 

 

Fish

[Treebeard]

Oh i had´t not notice that Mats catchphrase had changed. well i think the change don´t affect the text at all , even if i think it´s inpropper to do it i this case.

 

I think that some are acting like the prophets of doom , " Beware of the book , it will render thy bare and reck thy sould with it´s fith, yes and the Dark One , he who writes will bring havoc with the written word for he has corrupted the book thas was without taint. Bewear". if you know it is going to be so bad as you think well it´s a book you don´t need to read it , read the resume on Wikipedia, no cause to suffer if you don´t need to. I for one have great hope that is going to be one of the best reading experience of my life and if not well there are other books.