Most infuriating moment/topic in the books

[Alric]

I'm curious if there was a moment or a topic in the books that really, really made you scream/cringe/throw stuff/curse out loud while reading. I'm not asking for a list of what simply annoys you or smaller elements, but if there is something very specific you feel/felt so strongly about and got to you in such a way that it caused real rage.

 

I'm hoping for some interesting insights and stories about how one element in this series really got to you, and not just a poll or listings.

[fuzz1717]

Well.... PLOD in the words of the WoT reread at the tor website was fairly cringe-worthy. I also was not really a fan of when Rand was about to kill his father, then later the Seanchan, just before VoG, but i suppose that is good writing, as we were supposed to get mad at Rand there.

[Alric]

For me, it is without doubt the concept of damane.

 

When I began reading the series in 1997, I remember being really creeped out and angry about the collaring of Egwene in tGH. I'm not sure exactly why but it really got to me, it was possibly the concept of someone turning you into a pet, something lower than a slave, with no hope of ever escaping, and slowly eating away at your mind in addition to the physical imprisonment. I think my PTSD considering damane and the Seanchan was/is probably as bad as Egwene's ever was. When I read a Seanchan POV or someone speaking about collaring marath'damane, I really want to hit someone, or collar them, or... stuff I probably shouldn't write here. If RJ or BS want to push my buttons, they just simply need to mention the topic offhand. It is agonizing to read these parts, and right now when I'm at tGS and the threat is still as big or bigger than it ever was and Tuon is now actually planning to leash all of them........... Excuse me while I smash this keyboard to pieces.

[Hagazussa]

For me the most infuriating moment is when Matt comes to rescue Nyn and a few of the others, I do not remember exactly which book it is in, but anyway he risks his life, scale the one most well protected fortresses in the world and and really put his neck out just to save them even if he know that once he get to the ones holding them prisoner that would be it, the chances of him being able to do something would be minor. Now yes Nyn and the others manages to more or less free themselves but Matt do help out and his reward for being willing to lay down his life to help these women? One of them lift him into the air with well Air and berates him for how foolish he is and how he can do nothing right since he is a man. That is so infuriating yes sure the rescue attempt was foolish but when someone risk their life for you then you treat them with a little respect. I had to put the book down and take a few deep breaths before I could continue reading for that scene is so infuriating.

 

I think that often when a character one like is treated badly or there is injustice it is easy to get a bit enraged, that is just a part of getting emerged in a book. I get angry when I read how damane are treated but for me that is more like a good plot element and there are reasons behind it, not reasons I agree with, but there are reasons for the practice, but what really get me is bully tactics, when there are no real reason to treat another like shit but it is done just because the bully feel superior.

[sleepinghour]

For me the most infuriating moment is when Matt comes to rescue Nyn and a few of the others, I do not remember exactly which book it is in, but anyway he risks his life, scale the one most well protected fortresses in the world and and really put his neck out just to save them even if he know that once he get to the ones holding them prisoner that would be it, the chances of him being able to do something would be minor. Now yes Nyn and the others manages to more or less free themselves but Matt do help out and his reward for being willing to lay down his life to help these women? One of them lift him into the air with well Air and berates him for how foolish he is and how he can do nothing right since he is a man. That is so infuriating yes sure the rescue attempt was foolish but when someone risk their life for you then you treat them with a little respect.

 

That's not exactly what happens. Mat berates them for knocking Amico out, and the "you don't understand anything" comments refer to that. Of course they should have been more grateful and not have lifted him up in the air just for complaining about Amico, but I think fans have made a bit too much of that scene and others like it. I like Mat as much as anyone, but he can be a jerk sometimes—especially in the early books—and isn't always or entirely the wronged party. People constantly complain about how ungrateful the girls are, but when does Mat ever thank the girls, Verin, and Moiraine for saving his life? Earlier in TDR, the girls carried Mat from Falme to Tar Valon for Healing (and in Nynaeve's words, took care of him "like a babe in swaddling" since he was unconscious the entire time), but you don't see Mat thanking anybody for that. Also, the readers know how hard Mat tried to save them and everything he went through to do that, but the girls just see him popping up and acting like his usual self.

[FarShainMael]

Compulsion in any form (including leashing damanes). And bonding Warders, come to that, even when the weave is not 'tweaked', because of the 'death rage'. Anything that overrides a person's free will. I was particularly disturbed by Toveine's PoV in WH Prologue, with things like this:

 

She did not want tea unless it came with the breakfast she had missed, but she knew she was going to drink it.

 

OK, so it's only tea, but even so..

[Hagazussa]

That's not exactly what happens. Mat berates them for knocking Amico out, and the "you don't understand anything" comments refer to that. Of course they should have been more grateful and not have lifted him up in the air just for complaining about Amico, but I think fans have made a bit too much of that scene and others like it. I like Mat as much as anyone, but he can be a jerk sometimes—especially in the early books—and isn't always or entirely the wronged party.

 

I agree Matt can be an idiot and especially in the earlier books, he is definitely the least mature of the three Two Rivers boys I am not saying he do not need to be put in his place at times, but not that time. The times he have done very stupid things and gotten into trouble for it I am all for it, but right in that scene he have just risked his life to save these women and they treat him like a disobedient five year old and that is infuriating. Matt is far down the list of my favorite characters so it is not a thing of none can ever say a harsh word to this person, it is more that he is treated like s***. Now if Nyn had gone on about how much he put himself in danger and been more concerned that way and therefore been angry then that would have been different, but she treat him like a five year old and humiliate him and that is not ok to do when someone have just scaled a fortress to save you.

 

People constantly complain about how ungrateful the girls are, but when does Mat ever thank the girls, Verin, and Moiraine for saving his life? Earlier in TDR, the girls carried Mat from Falme to Tar Valon for Healing (and in Nynaeve's words, took care of him "like a babe in swaddling" since he was unconscious the entire time), but you don't see Mat thanking anybody for that. Also, the readers know how hard Mat tried to save them and everything he went through to do that, but the girls just see him popping up and acting like his usual self.

 

I agree Matt should have been more grateful, but thee is a big difference between not speaking words that should have been said and humiliating a person for trying to save you. And also no Nyn and the others do not know everything Matt have done to get to them, but since they are in a fortress they should at least assume that getting in was not to easy.

[Sloth]

Mat's introduction in book 1 and the realization that he wouldn't likely be killed off any time soon.

[The Wolf King]

Nothing in this series has made me rage/curse/throw books, not really. Not like A Song of Ice and Fire. But Rand's woeful ignorance of events happening at the Black Tower from book six onward comes close. Basically he helped create the new Dreadlords by not taking an active leadership within the BT.

[Danjaman]

SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK.

 

Without a doubt, if I could remove one part of the books, it would be the atha'an miere. Chapters 23 and 24 in WH (from the POV of Shalon din Togara Morning Tide) are the slowest and most boring parts in the series.

 

It's because every single female character in the series is constantly bickering and fighting for power. Whether Aes Sedai, Kinswoman, or nobility, one woman will always outrank another, and there's a constant battle for leadership. I love reading that; it's central to the series, and it really lets Nynaeve and Egwene shine.

The Sea Folk, however, take it way too far. They are sticklers for rank, and insist that they should have precedence among the AS and Kinswomen just for the sake of having precedence! It's like "HEY PAY ATTENTION TO US, WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED, WE ARE IMPORTANT AND ANNOYING! BARGAIN WITH US!"

 

Does anyone agree?

[Glokta]

SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK.

 

Without a doubt, if I could remove one part of the books, it would be the atha'an miere. Chapters 23 and 24 in WH (from the POV of Shalon din Togara Morning Tide) are the slowest and most boring parts in the series.

 

It's because every single female character in the series is constantly bickering and fighting for power. Whether Aes Sedai, Kinswoman, or nobility, one woman will always outrank another, and there's a constant battle for leadership. I love reading that; it's central to the series, and it really lets Nynaeve and Egwene shine.

The Sea Folk, however, take it way too far. They are sticklers for rank, and insist that they should have precedence among the AS and Kinswomen just for the sake of having precedence! It's like "HEY PAY ATTENTION TO US, WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED, WE ARE IMPORTANT AND ANNOYING! BARGAIN WITH US!"

 

Does anyone agree?

 

I do. They take stubbornness at an infuriating level! I mean we are used to people being tenacious or obstinate (depending on your point of view) but the Sea Folk... and they have no sense of humour!

[Hagazussa]

Something I do find a bit infuriating, though I did not think of it for my first post in this thread since it do make a great concept for the series and the series would not have been the same without it so it is not a book throwing I get angry at the books thing but more of a I get angry at the characters in the book thing which is really a positive thing about a book, to get a reader engaged enough in it to get really pissed at these fictional people and what they do, I have a real problem with the whole concept of Gentling male channelers.

 

Now from a humanitarian point of view and a practical one it would have worked so much better to just kill them. Now killing off male channelers that I get they are a danger to the world around them, one can not just let them run loose, but to bring them in and then do to them something which a Forsaken describes as the most painful thing someone can experience and then let them waste away in a hopeless depression until they either manages to kill themselves or their bodies just gives out from them just not wanting to live, that is just cruel. It would be easy to kill a male channeler quickly and painlessly by ordering a Warder to take their head off, that would have been the merciful thing to do, Gentling them is needless torture plain and simple, often done to men who have done nothing but been born with a gift they could not return. The whole concept of Severing makes me uneasy, it is a gruesome thing to do to someone, but at least when a Aes Sedai is stilled there is usually a good reason for it, she have committed some horrid crime or at least been sentenced for it, but with male channelers you can have a 17 year old kid who have never harmed a soul in his life who then get a fate that makes about every channeler who hear about it cringe just to think about it and that is quite infuriating. Also can you imagine the fear those men must feel when they are brought to the Tower? Who knows how many weeks of travel time knowing what lies ahead and being powerless to stop it, not to mention those the Red Ajah Gentle in the field instead of bringing them in, sure granted most male channelers will not know exactly what await them but there is enough rumors around in the world that they will have a pretty good inkling.

 

Now I get the reason for the practice, none want to just kill these men, but they are killing them they are just doing it in a way which is both literary and emotionally horrendously painful and slow. Now at least it should be a choice, tell the men that okey these are your options, you can either get a quick, painless death, or we can do this thing to you which would hurt like you would not believe and then leave you lacking a vital component of your being and so depressed that even if you do not manage to kill yourself your body will eventually just stop living, however there is a tiny chance that if you can find something to dedicate yourself to then you will survive, at least for a few years. Give them the choice but I suspect most would take death, I mean most Aes Sedai would certainly rather die than be Stilled why do they think a male channeler would think otherwise?

 

Now like I said the whole concept is great for the story, it put up a pretty horrid weakness for channelers and both give an opportunity for some rather dramatic situations, it is a good concept for the book, but hell do it make me angry at the Tower. I mean that scene in, the third book I think, when some of the girls meet Logain at the Tower and you see the sorry state he is in, I just wanted to reach through the pages and give the man a hug.

[Aulduron]

The most infuriating part of these books is waiting until January for the final book.

[Glokta]

Nothing in this series has made me rage/curse/throw books, not really. Not like A Song of Ice and Fire. But Rand's woeful ignorance of events happening at the Black Tower from book six onward comes close. Basically he helped create the new Dreadlords by not taking an active leadership within the BT.

The Red Wedding?

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

 

How about Elayne's PLOD as they run through Andor after escaping the Seanchan. This was worse than Perrin's in my opinion. I dont really need to see "she smoothed her skirts" every other paragrapgh. I found myself just skipping entire pages on my first read through. Also I didnt really like the Egwene learning about TaR. I found Perrin's learning experience much more interesting.

 

Oh. One more.

Really any time that the wonder girls try to bring someone down(mentally) in an unjust situation.

[What's a Seawolf?]

SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK. SEA FOLK.

 

Without a doubt, if I could remove one part of the books, it would be the atha'an miere. Chapters 23 and 24 in WH (from the POV of Shalon din Togara Morning Tide) are the slowest and most boring parts in the series.

 

It's because every single female character in the series is constantly bickering and fighting for power. Whether Aes Sedai, Kinswoman, or nobility, one woman will always outrank another, and there's a constant battle for leadership. I love reading that; it's central to the series, and it really lets Nynaeve and Egwene shine.

The Sea Folk, however, take it way too far. They are sticklers for rank, and insist that they should have precedence among the AS and Kinswomen just for the sake of having precedence! It's like "HEY PAY ATTENTION TO US, WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED, WE ARE IMPORTANT AND ANNOYING! BARGAIN WITH US!"

 

Does anyone agree?

 

Came into this topic think Sea Folk, but wasn't sure if it fit into Alric's criteria. I actually like a few things about them, hiding their channelers from the world for one. I even like the deal making bit.

 

But their problem (and where my only complaint is in books 7-10, or for the whole series for that matter) is that we already have groups EXACTLY like them!

 

The Sea Folk are essentially Aes Sedai, the same mentality, operating procedures etc. And like Danjaman said, you could make a similar argument for other groups as well. I think the problem with the Sea Folk was that by the time they were really introduced, we as readers had already seen too many groups just like them that acted in the same way. And for a group that was supposed to be very different, it just became very frustrating to read the same introductory plot as basic Aes Sedai and others.

 

Their scenes are the only ones I skip or breaze through on re-reads.

[thisguy]

Yes, the Sea Folk suck and what makes them worse is that so far they really haven't done much of anything. Anything there channelers have done could really have been easily rewritten to include more kin or AS instead.

 

 

While there are a bunch of AS I either like or, at least, find interesting in the story, as a whole the group sucks big time. Two days after the Tower is 'healed' they're looking to go behind Egwene's back. They're untrustworthy, ungracious, ununified, and many of them are unlikable. Especially, since they're supposed to be the preeminent wisdom, power, knowledge society.

 

 

And, while I do not dislike Egwene nearly as much as I think many people do, every time I start to like her more she does something that makes me wish death on her. Gawyn's gotta be in love to put up with her shit.

[pepe Al'thor]

One thing in this series that is really frustrating for me, i will never understand why RJ wrote the series like this.

 

1) Aviendaha.

 

We get introduced to her in book 3, and books 4-5 she was amazing. Actually, she was my favorite girl character. Her and Rand together was hilarious and amusing.

 

RJ then dumbs her rôle down to literally nothing, and she has pretty much ZERO interaction with Rand at all after book 6... Instead she becomes Elaynes sidekick for a book or two later on with no réal purpose in the series.

 

I will never understand why hé created her such à badass and awesome character just to have her be pushed to the side and literally forgotten about.

 

 

 

[thisguy]

I think a lot of great characters and plot lines get pushed to the side in a story this large. It stinks sometimes.

[Darksmoon]

The Kin. I simply do not like them and did not find their parts interesting.

[zerachiel76]

1. Nynaeve in books 1 - 6 I could cheerfully have strangled she was that bad for me
   
2. Any Elaida POV
   
3. Any scene with Rand and Egwene from books 1 - 3
   
4. The way Egwene treats Gawyn in TOM (I cheered when he refused to come back after the first letter)
   
5. The POV of the woman challenging Elayne for the throne of Andor (Arymilla I think)
   
6. Gawyn hating Rand for no reason apart from believing stupid rumours
   
7. Silviana's comments on being raised to Keeper "and men are not to be trusted" even when Saidin is clean.
   
8. Anything with fail (spelt deliberately wrong)
   

[herid]

If we are only talking about topics/moments and not the quality of writing... Speaking of Sea Folk, I was completely flabbergasted by the fact that they demanded a heavy payment from Elayne and Nyn for helping them fix the weather. This makes them the worst kind of mercenaries that exist in all Randlands. RJ never even acknowledged this as an issue.

Judging by the aMoL prologue it seems that BS at least is aware of it but I don't know if this will ever be addressed. I doubt it.

[thisguy]

If we are only talking about topics/moments and not the quality of writing... Speaking of Sea Folk, I was completely flabbergasted by the fact that they demanded a heavy payment from Elayne and Nyn for helping them fix the weather. This makes them the worst kind of mercenaries that exist in all Randlands. RJ never even acknowledged this as an issue.

Judging by the aMoL prologue it seems that BS at least is aware of it but I don't know if this will ever be addressed. I doubt it.

 

I agree. They were helping their own people doing this and fighting the DO, you'd think that would be enough for them.

[avernite]

If we are only talking about topics/moments and not the quality of writing... Speaking of Sea Folk, I was completely flabbergasted by the fact that they demanded a heavy payment from Elayne and Nyn for helping them fix the weather. This makes them the worst kind of mercenaries that exist in all Randlands. RJ never even acknowledged this as an issue.

Judging by the aMoL prologue it seems that BS at least is aware of it but I don't know if this will ever be addressed. I doubt it.

 

It's no wonder that 'weep on the march to tarmon gai'don' is such an awesome moment :p

 

 

As to infuriating: Gawyn's plotline in ToM is infuriating. First, because after facing Elayne he STILL doesn't believe, truly, that Rand didn't kill his mother (seriously EVERYONE he cares about is telling him he's wrong). Second, because he and Egwene have such a horrible relationship. It's his plotline, not him, on that latter one.

[master]

The most infuriating part of these books is waiting until January for the final book.

 

I hope its january. I really hate having to avoid the internet for a few months after everyone else has gotten a book I want while I have to wait for local stores to stock it. Kinda defeats the whole point of getting a kindle.