[Prologue Spoilers] What Harriet Had Brandon do...?

[NetSlider]

Is Lan in the race? Unless I'm missing something, he's not out of the woods in any way, and to be honest it would be kind of right, but only if Nyn is pregnant and one day Lan's heir rebuilds this kingdom . So, my money on Lan.

[TootThatHorn]

If we don't get A LOT of military strategy sessions with Mat, Bashere and Ituralde I will be STEAMING MAD.

 

 

Fish

 

I would love to see these things as well, but I would be surprised if it's much more than stressing over maps, pushing troops through gateways or directing cannons and the like. I think we will get some glimpse in to the strategies they will employ but as far as practical planning and description of tactics, I wouldn't expect it. More like some Hannibal quotes of loving a plan that comes together after the fact.

[Gabriel Kross]

I just want to point out that Talmanes doesn't die in the healing as so many of you say is possible. Nyn healed him and said that was all she could do for him, the rest was up to him. Now he can STILL succomb to his wounds, thus abruptly dieing since an Aes Sedai healed him. However, who else do we see in the released sections that gets wounded that could be considered for this?

[TheAngryDruid]

If I had to guess: Birgitte.

[batcaver]

I'm actually kind of hoping a character or two will bite just because things seem to almost always work out so cleanly for the Light. Not looking for a crazy death toll, but a couple would suffice. I could be persuaded to part with Elayne.

[Southpaw89]

I'm not sure why any of the primary characters are even candidates because Brandon has said many times that RJ had all the major characters fates written down so there wasn't any debate between him and Harriet who lived and who died with the major characters

[Ishna]

Well since Gaidal is recently born, isnt it VERY likely that Birgitte will die very soon in order for her to be spun out about the same age as him?

[Aquarius]

Well since Gaidal is recently born, isnt it VERY likely that Birgitte will die very soon in order for her to be spun out about the same age as him?

It would if she was "one of her incarnations", set to die and be reborn again later with Gaidal. But instead she's the true Birgitte of the legends with memories of all her past lives. Her link to the wheel might be cut, for all we know. It's not **Birgitte** who dies, each time. it's "this particular incarnatino of Birgitte".

My2c

[Pinzarn]

Maybe. Correct me if I'm wrong but Aiel having massive casualties is the Wise Ones' interpretation, right? The word "destroy" is used in the actual prophecies. And IIRC there is a prophecy like "he shall slay his people with a sword of leaf". Aiel define themselves as warriors, if they are sworn to the Covenant again, wouldn't that count as destroying them? And the remaining Shaido that went to the Waste is the remnant of the remnant. This is what I've always thought would happen and Aiel would lose as many as the rest.

 

When I first read the prochecy about the Aiel, I always thought that it meant a vast majority of them would die in the Last Battle and only a small population would survive. As I learned more about the Aiel's traditions and way of life, my view has shifted that the culture that is the Aiel will be shattered in the Last Battle, namely, they will no longer have a true place in the world post-LB. Along those lines, a small population of "die-hard" Aiel will find a small corner of the world to maintain the Aiel ways, but the overwhelming majority will find a new role in society.

 

For the part about slaying hi people with a sword of the leaf (or whatever), I think that has already been fulfullied with Rand's revelations about the Aiel's history.

[yoniy0]

Her link to the wheel might be cut, for all we know.

That's inaccurate. Min's viewings from WH prove that Birgitte is still tied to the Pattern, and that she's just as connected to Gaidal as ever.

[joedoc]

I think we're overlooking one important character - Bela.

 

She will be missed.

[Amandera]

Maybe. Correct me if I'm wrong but Aiel having massive casualties is the Wise Ones' interpretation, right? The word "destroy" is used in the actual prophecies. And IIRC there is a prophecy like "he shall slay his people with a sword of leaf". Aiel define themselves as warriors, if they are sworn to the Covenant again, wouldn't that count as destroying them? And the remaining Shaido that went to the Waste is the remnant of the remnant. This is what I've always thought would happen and Aiel would lose as many as the rest.

 

When I first read the prochecy about the Aiel, I always thought that it meant a vast majority of them would die in the Last Battle and only a small population would survive. As I learned more about the Aiel's traditions and way of life, my view has shifted that the culture that is the Aiel will be shattered in the Last Battle, namely, they will no longer have a true place in the world post-LB. Along those lines, a small population of "die-hard" Aiel will find a small corner of the world to maintain the Aiel ways, but the overwhelming majority will find a new role in society.

 

For the part about slaying hi people with a sword of the leaf (or whatever), I think that has already been fulfullied with Rand's revelations about the Aiel's history.

Exact prophecy is "He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."

 

I don't think it's been fulfilled yet because Bleakness is referred to another part of the Karaethon Cycle:

Power of the Shadow made human flesh,

wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.

The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,

dances the sword in dreams and mist,

chains the Shadowsworn to his will,

from the city, lost and forsaken,

leads the spears to war once more,

breaks the spears and makes them see,

truth long hidden in the ancient dream.

 

Why the same Foretelling twice?

[herid]

There are other examples of multiple prophecies referring to the same thing so this doesn't really prove anything. However, in this case I agree that the prophecy

"He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf" has not been fulfilled yet. I believe it means that the Aiel have to return to the Way of the Leaf after the LB. That's what Avi has to learn from her visions in Rhuidean.

 

BTW, massive Aiel casualties in the LB is not a Wise One's interpretation. An Aiel prophecy mentioned in TSR, ch 34 says

"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[lolguy26]

I think we're overlooking one important character - Bela.

 

She will be missed.

 

She is mentioned in AmoL :))

 

 

[Balefire to da face!]

I think we're overlooking one important character - Bela.

 

She will be missed.

 

That actually wouldn't be a bad answer, but Brandon did say it was a person.

 

I certainly hope it's not Talmanes. Barring some important plot point that requires Talmanes to live and do something(but then still die of his injuries) which seems unlikely, it would be terrible writing to make Talmanes survive the battlefield, only to die in bed. If he was going to die, it should have been on the battlefield.

 

Brandon's answer hints, to me at least, that the change didn't result in too much, if any, rewriting beyond a sudden death from a previous injury. So it seems like it's a pretty minor character. I wonder who would be minor enough to fit the bill, but important enough that Harriet would go out of her way to say dies.

 

I thought this sounded familar, and it's because Herid just posted some questions from Brandon on tour with roughly the same info......

 

 

He said that there was one character who he was going to let live but Harriet insisted should die. And there was another character whose fate was not spelled out in the notes (I didn't quite hear what he said there) and that he killed that character himself. Other than that everybody who dies, dies by RJ's hand. I think he talked about this in other interviews so this is probably not new.

 

The one tidbit here worth nothing that's not made clear in the original post and quote is that this seems to be explicitly a character Harriet wanted dead. I was wondering whether this was a character Harriet specifically wanted dead, or maybe RJ told her at some point, but it wasn't in the notes, so Harriet had to correct Brandon at the end of the writing because Brandon followed the notes, and the character kinda slipped through the cracks. But the above, even if paraphrased, seems to show this was someone Harriet herself wanted dead.

 

So who could be both a minor character whose death wouldn't effect the plot too much, but also someone who was imporant enough for Harriet to single out?

 

Maybe others who know Harriet better from interviews could venture a guess. I seem to remember she always hated the Rand foursome, but of the three even Min seems a bit too consequential to quallify.

[Agitel]

"Destroy them with the leaf" might not mean that he makes the Aiel retake the Way of the Leaf. The "leaf" might refer to the Dragon's Peace he negotiates between the Seanchan and all the nations of the westlands. The way of the leaf is the way of peace, and I did not capitalize "way of the leaf" for a reason. Leaf, in this case, as it is in the philosophy, may just be synonymous with peace in general. The Dragon's Peace may wind up destroying the Aiel. Avi's vision fits this description. Now, that might not be the only way to fulfill the prophecy. Indeed, prophecy might not have only one solution, but in fact many solutions which satisfy the terms.

[TheAngryDruid]

Min's viewings make Birgitte's death highly, highly unlikely.

 

How does that follow exactly? I only know of one viewing Min had of Birgitte, and that one had nothing specific, just tons of images, more than one person could possibly have in one lifetime. Seems to me, she was seeing ALL of Birgittes images for ALL (or at least most) of her lives. Can't see how that bodes anything for this one particular incarnation. Except maybe that she will be born before Gaidal from now on.

[yoniy0]

Min only sees the future, and Gaidal was still in Birggite's, sometimes older and sometimes younger. Therefore the two are still linked. However, I agree that this doesn't mean Birggite has to survive the LB.

[stefor]

Padan Fain.

 

I can imagine BS had him wondering off crazy in a "to be continued..."-matter.

[Viperswhip]

If Fain dies early, I am very happy about that. We do have another Seanchan attack on the White Tower imminent. I guess Peaceful Rand may head that off by going and kneeling (puke), but we also have Slayer coming after Rand who just happens to be around Perrin (please kill Faile).

 

So, I don't know for sure, but I don't think Talmanes will die.

[Rufae]

I imagine the major characters storylines were all mapped out by RJ. So I think it is a secondary character whose living/dying would not affect the storyline in a major way, and so RJ probably wrote "do what you want" with that character.

 

Harriett, being an editor for the whole series, probably has a feel for the characters and plot pretty well and felt that it would be a better impact to have a character succumb to his/her injuries rather than eek out.

 

As to who I think it is.... I am thinking an Aiel Clan Chief (Rhuarc?) or an Aes Sedai.

[Luckers]

I honestly think this is Cadsuane and Brandon's getting on record now saying it wasn't him. Makes sense given the backlash to his earlier comments of wanting to kill Cadsuane that he might shy away from the idea of actually killing her--and want to make it clear that it wasn't his decison.

[Viperswhip]

Maybe she is killed in such a funny way, you know Darwin Award style that the Asha'man laugh so hard they cry.

[Leyrann]

I think we're overlooking one important character - Bela.

 

She will be missed.

 

The Creator doesn't die.

[Orderofolde]

Talmanes was healed. So, his death isn't in the Caemlyn battle if he's to die before all is said and done. And with Talmanes' survival, Mat's trip to Ebou Dar doesn't mean that the Band is toast. They look like they'll have a role in the Last Battle. Would be awesome if Mat brings the Band to Ebou Dar or Illian before doing his thing in TG.

I can easily see the Band's numbers swelling after the fighting in Caemlyn. There are several sources including from among the refugees, the mercenary groups outside the city, and the draw that their fame for what they did and Talmanes being super cool killing two fades and surviving his wounds. The problem with refugees is many won't be trained, but we see with Perrin's group the men take quickly to their sword training and advance faster than expected.