WHAT DID YOU SAY? - things that characters might finally find out

[Grimmauld]

With this thread I am hoping to compile a list of things that main characters are not aware of - but should be - at this stage in the series. By this I mean things of which other characters and the reader are aware. The primary example of this is Elayne's pregnancy. It would seem like the entirety of Caemlyn, as well as half the main cast, knows that Elayne is in the family way. It would be a pretty straight forward assumption that the daddy-to-be will find out in AMoL. I wonder what Rand's reaction shall be, but that is a diverging topic.

 

So can anyone think of other examples of known information that is not available to a main character but would be important for them?

[Clouded]

I'd say Mat marrying the Seanchan Empress will be a big surprise for Rand. I know Perrin and Elayne both know, but I can't think of who else does.

[Constant Dreamer]

The thing that springs to mind is what Tam's reaction will be. He already knows about Min but what will he think when Aviendha and a pregnant Elayne show up, even Lan went wide eyed when he found out. Come to think of it the only characters that really know the full extent of Rand's love life (other than Rand and his girls) are Lan and Nynaeve so I think a few people are in for a shock.

[Grimmauld]

That's a fantastic example. Earlier in the series you would have to imagine that Rand would have felt he needed to be "strong enough to use" this information but now you couldn't see him trying to force Mat into coercing Tuon's submission of the Seanchan to Rand.

[Grimmauld]

Maybe that can be one of his conditions for going to face the dark one at Shayol Ghul

 

"Yes, yes, I am ready to die to save the world. First however, I would like everybody to pretend they are Mat and turn their blind eye to the fact that I have three ladies..."

[bcspeer]

Galad should know he has a half-brother (Rand) and know what happened to his mother. I think Lan and Siuan would like to know that Moraine isn't dead. Egwene should know that balefiring the Forsaken is the best way to keep them dead. Rand should also know that Mesanna has been dealt with

[Grimmauld]

I think the Galad & Rand thing is an interesting side note - would love it revealed at FoM so that some of the characters can theorise, as we have, about what "his blood on the rocks" could mean! Not that I think it means anything other than Rand's own blood but would be a lovely moment of reference to the fandom.

 

Lan and Siuan's reaction to Moiraine's return will be fantastic, as I assume shall be Rand's. I wonder will it's impact be tempered somewhat by Morgase's similar return having been so recent.

 

Mesanna having been dealt with is another interesting sidenote, as it also shows Rand a different possible way of dealing with the forsaken, let Eggy brainruin them in TAR. haha

[Constant Dreamer]

How about the Aiel wise ones finding out that Perrin can dreamwalk it would be so funny if they tried to lecture him about the dangers. I am also hoping for another huge Tel'aran'rhiod battle with Perrin Egwene and the wise ones all going after Slayer

[bigdoug1971]

Cadsuane finding out Mat has a ter-angreal like hers.

Moiraine is alive.....and marrying THOM MERRILIN!

The reaction to Mat and Aludra's dragons.

Whitecloaks sworn to Perrin Goldeneyes.

 

There's a few from me anyway. I always pictured Moiraine as a hottie and Thom as an old man. Nothing seems to surprise Cadsuane. The dragon's will change warfare in the realm too.

[bcspeer]

I forgot about the Wise Ones and Perrin. That has to come up at some point. Egwene saw Perrin in Tel'aran'rhiod in ToM and I don't see her not bringing it up when she sees him. But I can only see Perrin finishing off Slayer. He might take advice from the Wise Ones and maybe he can teach them some things but I can't see them joining him in the fight.

 

That reminds me, I hope Deira Bashere finds out about Perrin practically destroying the Shaido. very minor thing but it will show her that Perrin is worthy of her daughter

 

Moraine's return will be much bigger than Morgase's. Moraine is a legend among the Aes Sedai, probably on the level of Cadsuane, she's the only woman who can say she fought 3 forsaken and killed 2 of them. I can already picture Siuan breaking out in tears over seeing her oldest friend back from the dead.

 

Does Rand know that Morgase is alive? Her 'death' hit him pretty hard because he felt like he failed Elayne or something like that

[Grimmauld]

Oh Moiraine's return will be bigger, I'm just wondering if some of it's thunder will be stolen by it being the second story line of that nature in the timeline.

 

I like the idea of the WOs finding out about Perrin. However, in a way they are the most adaptable of the female authority figures and perhaps will take it in better stead than the Aes Sedai would in that situation. They seem to work on the basis that you are only to be condescended to until you prove that you shouldn't be.

[nolirion]

Moraine return and Perrin mention of is little "bargain" with the Seanchan I don't think it is going to amuse Rand very much .

[Durinax]

Does Rand know that Morgase is alive? Her 'death' hit him pretty hard because he felt like he failed Elayne or something like that

no it hit him hard because he realized he was too weak, that he had to push to be hard enough to kill women type of deal.

[bcspeer]

@Durinax thanks, I haven't read FoH in awhile, I couldn't remember

[Ala Rubra]

Does Rand know that Morgase is alive? Her 'death' hit him pretty hard because he felt like he failed Elayne or something like that

no it hit him hard because he realized he was too weak, that he had to push to be hard enough to kill women type of deal.

 

No, I'm pretty sure it was because he knew Rahvin was there but didn't do anything about it. He believed that Rahvin killed her, and that if he had moved against him sooner it could have been prevented.

[Maleshub]

Cannot wait to see the reaction of the Aiel Wise Ones and Clan Chiefs to Aviendha's Rhuidean columns visions.

[Durinax]

Does Rand know that Morgase is alive? Her 'death' hit him pretty hard because he felt like he failed Elayne or something like that

no it hit him hard because he realized he was too weak, that he had to push to be hard enough to kill women type of deal.

 

No, I'm pretty sure it was because he knew Rahvin was there but didn't do anything about it. He believed that Rahvin killed her, and that if he had moved against him sooner it could have been prevented.

sorry I read it wrong, I thought Moraine, god I gotta read better. Morgase didn't seem to hit him that hard though as I recall

[DaoineSidhe]

Key things key characters don't know:

 

Rand: He's gonna be a dad. Matt's married to the Empress, may she live forever. Perrin's also reached a truce with the Seanchan. The BT is really a big nest of DFs. Morainne and Morgase, two key women who shaped his view on how "hard" he had to be due to their deaths, are in reality alive.

 

Matt: Caemlyn and his new Dragons being in danger. That he is actually the most chivalrous of the three main characters even though he is the "rogue" (all of his major plot lines involve him saving a woman from danger). Outside of other things already mentioned, can't think of a lot of surprises in store for Mat atm, although I know they are there.

 

Perrin: That he will soon be husband to the Queen of Saldea (I know, its not set in stone, but given the amount of foreshadowing here, I think its pretty much a guarantee). That his "liege woman" the Queen of Ghealdan (sp?) is not all she appears. How much he has become the "Number 1 Most Wanted" man for the Shadow (he knows he's being hunted, but the peek into the Graendal - Moridin conversation seems to say that he's their prime target).

 

Egwene: That Perrin is not on her side at the FoM (she may suspect, but I think she may be surprised by him supporting Rand, especially when his "Persuasion" ta'veren ability swings the tide against her. I envision Perrin's denouncing of her plan and support of Rand's quite possibly being the turning point in the debate, although I think Moraine could play that role too). That the taint on Saidin is well and truly cleansed; this is a point that most characters don't really accept even if they've heard it, although I don't know how much it will affect things in aMoL. That Asha'Man and Aes Sedai in all probability will be on close to equal terms in post-TG Randland. Morainne being alive.

[Thrasymachus]

Moiraine's return could also be the catalyst needed to break the White Tower's Power-based hierarchy, considering she's returning with a fraction of her original strength, and is such a legend among the Sisters.

[Wolf505]

Soooo many things. Most of them I can think of have been mentioned. I think Moiraine's return will in no way be overshadowed by Morgase's simply because nobody actually knew Morgase was dead. They just knew she had disappeared and it was assumed Rahvin did her in, but that doesn't really make sense when you think about it since she seemed to be fully under Rahvin's thumb and he hadn't quite established his own power base yet. In any case it would be quite easy for anyone to believe Morgase was still alive and in hiding, but given the fact she was held captive by one of the Forsaken, everyone assume's the worst. To most people it will be the same as Alsalam's return from the dead. Remember to most people in Randland she was just another ruler, all be it a near legendary one. We just know her better.

 

Moiraine, on the other hand, many of the cast saw her "die" and it was further confirmed by the severing of her Warder bond. So I doubt any of them even has an inkling she's still alive. Even Min, who should know, instead doubts her viewings of Moiraine being alive. The news will not only shake the Tower, but the entire cast who doesn't know yet. And as far as breaking the strength based hierarchy, yeah I can't see anyone ordering around Moiraine after this. Besides, the changing of the hierarchy has already been forshadowed several times. No doubt after this Moiraine will be right up there with Mabriam en Shereed and Latra Posae Decume as far as most Aes Sedai know.

[Grimmauld]

It's one thing I never understood. Many of the characters simply accepted Morgase was dead; certainly Gawyn did and also Galad and Rand. However, they had never seen any evidence, they just agreed that disappeared definitively meant dead. The same goes to a lesser extent with Moiraine. Yes, she disappeared with Lanfear through the gate. However, the gate was a portal, others had passed through it and not died. It would be fairly reasonably to assume a high probability of death in that circumstance - not only was she battling a far more powerful channeler but she was headed to a realm where death seemed likely. However, this again is not a guarantee. You can say that Lan's bond having swapped to Myrelle makes it definitive in the minds of the characters but again, I think this is a little bit of a cop out.

 

I can just imagine how my life would be if I took the approach they do. Five times a day I would assume that my keys or wallet or phone had been balefired out of existence because they had disappeared.

[nolirion]

Well Morgase was held by a forsaken and she disappeared all of a sudden , her escaping the nasty compulsion , then rumor started and Rand acted on them , furious as he was , when no trace of her could be found in the palace and all saying she was dead well it was the obvious conclusion .

As for Moraine She jumped into a Ter'Angreal that imploded and with Lanfear , then the bound with Lan was cut , I mean those where evidence enough .

Sometime you just don't have the luxury to think and rethink event .

[Grimmauld]

Oh I'm not saying that they should have known or even expected either Morgase or Moiraine to be alive. Just that I think it's shocking how quickly they jump to the "MUST be dead" conclusion.

 

On another note - Rand doesn't know Asmodean is dead yet, does he? I wonder will he ever find that out or will he continue to think HE simply disappeared!

[Vardar]

It's one thing I never understood. Many of the characters simply accepted Morgase was dead; certainly Gawyn did and also Galad and Rand. However, they had never seen any evidence, they just agreed that disappeared definitively meant dead. The same goes to a lesser extent with Moiraine. Yes, she disappeared with Lanfear through the gate. However, the gate was a portal, others had passed through it and not died. It would be fairly reasonably to assume a high probability of death in that circumstance - not only was she battling a far more powerful channeler but she was headed to a realm where death seemed likely. However, this again is not a guarantee. You can say that Lan's bond having swapped to Myrelle makes it definitive in the minds of the characters but again, I think this is a little bit of a cop out.

 

I can just imagine how my life would be if I took the approach they do. Five times a day I would assume that my keys or wallet or phone had been balefired out of existence because they had disappeared.

 

 

HA! Ain't that the truth.

 

And it's funny how they accepted her death, but rumors of her being seen places were discounted. Really? Are people in Randland that stupid (We already know this answer)

[OptimusPrime]

Rand telling Moiraine about the link to Moridin is my main one I think. I really hope we get that full convo on screen if it happens. Especially if he talks about the True Power to her as well. I think the only way he'll tell anyone is its in a private convo with Moiraine, and possibly (hopefully) Nynaeve.