Alanna?

[Lisa Campbell]

One doesn't know, given that those letters were unprotected, uncoded and could be opened and read by anyone.

 

Do we know they were unprotected? We've only seen that one of the letters were opened by the intended recipient? Olver opening Mat's supports that premise I suppose but it is not unreasonable that Verin didn't protect Mat's because she delivered it personally. Can anyone remember who it was (off hand) that passed Rand's letter on to him?

[Luckers]

Luckers, I would think Luc would be rocked by the concept that ANY Aes Sedai would realize Luc the malkieri was still alive and he was very quick to try to avoid that path.

 

The world thinks baby Luc died in the blight. He doesn't want people realizing that he's still alive and quite firmly in the arms of the shadow.

 

Actually, Luc is Andoran (the brother of Tigraine, and Rand's uncle). Isam is the Malkieri. And that's kind of the point--why would Luc, who was Andoran, react to a connection being made between him and the Borderlands? What is dangerous in that connection? Is it just that he was worried his cover story might be exposed--which is a bit of a reach, because by the time Verin investigated in the Borderlands and Murandy, his work in the Two Rivers would be done and Luc long gone.

 

Or is it because Luc actually has a base of operations in the Borderlands, one that he fears might be found if anyone decided to try and hunt him down? Luc trying to throw attention away from the Borderlands just to protect his alias makes no sense--him actually having something there that he wants to protect on the other hand does.

 

And, Verin actually making the comment is itself interesting. I cannot think of a single pointless comment she has made--right from the very first moment we meet her. Like when she interupts Siuan's meeting with Rand by waffling on about flying fish and swimming birds to give him time to recover, to when she deftly manipulates the Salidar embassy into the disastrous confrontation with Rand. Hell, the Lie itself, telling the Shienarans that Moiraine sent her, was completely unnecessary. She could have simply said 'I thought I could help' and they wouldn't have questioned her, because she was Aes Sedai. Hell, she could have said 'a farmwife in Seilisin sent me' and they would have knuckled their foreheads and accepted it.

 

Instead, she said what she said, a comment that was seemingly casual and yet designed very specifically to destroy Moiraine's attempt to let Rand think she had let him slip the leash. Another example is the spadework she does with Aleis in Winter's Heart, designed to scare the Counsel from doing anything stupid should Rand be exposed.

 

Verin almost always has a reason behind her comments, even the idle-seeming ones. And though this one seemed idle, it drew a reaction from the man it was targeted at. And that speaks eloquently to me.

 

@Luckers,

I'm not on board with the idea that Alanna was sent to investigate Slayer, but I'm not particularly against it either. What I don't understand is WHY Verin would send her to Arafel.

 

 

Fair enough, though to be clear I'm suggesting Verin already did her investigating--knowledge of Slayer is out there in Darkfriend circles, and I'm suggesting she--with her usual thoroughness--meticulously tracked down Slayer's base of operations. Alanna therefore is not being sent to investigate, but instead, armed with the results of Verin's investigation, is being sent to kill him.

 

From there, on the why, as I stated in greater detail above, Luc reacting negatively to a connection being made between himself and the Borderlands suggests to me that he has something in the Borderlands to hide--and not just exposure as a baddy.

 

Furthermore, I'm suggesting that after the Dark Prophecy, Verin investigated and found hints of whatever he was hiding--or, at the least, hints of a connection between badass assasin Slayer and the Borderlands. Maybe nothing more than rumours. Her comment, therefore, may have been to test these rumours.

 

I feel fairly certain that Verin managed to piece together her experience with Luc in TSR and the Dark Prophecy from TGH and know the Luc/Isam connection. Perhaps she did not know Isam, and sent her to investigate Arafel, but I would imagine the name was known to her.

 

 

Yeah, she had to have linked it--in tGH based just on the name Luc, she pulls out Luc Mantear as the subject of the prophecy, then in tSR, Jordan has Verin make a direct comment about Luc's name when she meets him--let's just say, Jordan can be very subtle, but this wasn't one of those moments.

 

As for the rest, perhaps--but the thing is Verin had other, much better resources than Alanna--and she herself was a much better researcher. I don't think simple investigation would be the purpose--but action on the other hand... We know that Verin's Oath protected Slayer under the betrayal of the Great Lord cause, or else he'd already be dead. So, like when she moved on the Black Ajah, she had to arm someone else with the knowledge and let them act. I suggest the same here.

[Eӧl]

I like the idea that Alanna is being sent to the Borderlands to destroy Luc and/or his base of operations. I'm not completely convinced it holds up all the way, but it does have some merit. As much as any other theory I've heard. I just don't see anyone killing Slayer except Perrin though. They have been set up as mortal enemies since book four and I think having Alanna kill him would be disappointing so I don't want to believe that is the purpose of her going to the Borderlands. It could still be something as simple as stopping another surprise trolloc invasion like the one in Caemlyn. Does anyone remember the list of Waygates that Loial said he couldn't convince the Elders to shut down?

 

Another point about this I would like to bring up is how Alanna left her rooms. If someone has come up with an explanation for this then I would like to know. It may be important to her purpose that she left secretly apparently without using a significant amount of the power.

[bcspeer]

I think the Elders in the Borderlands didn't listen but I am not sure. The only thing I can think of as to how she left her rooms would be she learned the Aiel trick of unraveling a weave. She might have learned it when she was an "apprentice" Wise One in Cairhein or she could have discovered it herself and kept it a secret (like Moraine's invisibility trick or Verin's rough form of Compulsion). For all we know, Alanna isn't even in Arafel, Rand just thinks she is and he senses her far to the north and assumes it is Arafel because it is her homeland. She could very well be in the Blight fighting Worms or something (unlikely though). She could even be in Shienar or Kandor.

 

In my opinion, Slayer is Perrin's enemy to kill and I would be greatly disappointed if anybody but Perrin killed him.

[Southpaw89]

when I learned that Verin was an undercover Black Ajah agent, one of the thoughts that crossed my mind was if she had any connections with Alanna. And she had. I'm under the belief that Verin persuaded Alanna to bond Rand for her own purposes but Alanna isn't aware of why. So she was basically being manipulated the whole time into bonding Rand. I would be VERY surprised if she ends up being Black Ajah

[Sharaman]

Many ways for her to leave without enough use of Saidar as in Travelling that would have been noted. .

Some suggestions

1) The letter was delivered by a woman who left a Gate open (the power was used at the other end so not detected in the Stone) and she stepped through

2) The letter was delivered by a Saidin channeler (whose use of Travel-power wouldn't be detected by AS).

3) Alanna used MoM, or the invisibility weave (we know she knows them from LoC) to sneak out of her room, collected her warder (the other one, not Rand) and rode out.

4) She disguised herself normally and walked out.

 

We don't even know if Alanna took her horse and her warder though one supposes her warder wasn't around or else he would have been questioned.

[JakeBarnes]

Actually, Luc is Andoran (the brother of Tigraine, and Rand's uncle). Isam is the Malkieri. And that's kind of the point--why would Luc, who was Andoran, react to a connection being made between him and the Borderlands? What is dangerous in that connection? Is it just that he was worried his cover story might be exposed--which is a bit of a reach, because by the time Verin investigated in the Borderlands and Murandy, his work in the Two Rivers would be done and Luc long gone.

 

Or is it because Luc actually has a base of operations in the Borderlands, one that he fears might be found if anyone decided to try and hunt him down? Luc trying to throw attention away from the Borderlands just to protect his alias makes no sense--him actually having something there that he wants to protect on the other hand does.

 

And, Verin actually making the comment is itself interesting. I cannot think of a single pointless comment she has made--right from the very first moment we meet her. Like when she interupts Siuan's meeting with Rand by waffling on about flying fish and swimming birds to give him time to recover, to when she deftly manipulates the Salidar embassy into the disastrous confrontation with Rand. Hell, the Lie itself, telling the Shienarans that Moiraine sent her, was completely unnecessary. She could have simply said 'I thought I could help' and they wouldn't have questioned her, because she was Aes Sedai. Hell, she could have said 'a farmwife in Seilisin sent me' and they would have knuckled their foreheads and accepted it.

 

Instead, she said what she said, a comment that was seemingly casual and yet designed very specifically to destroy Moiraine's attempt to let Rand think she had let him slip the leash. Another example is the spadework she does with Aleis in Winter's Heart, designed to scare the Counsel from doing anything stupid should Rand be exposed.

 

Verin almost always has a reason behind her comments, even the idle-seeming ones. And though this one seemed idle, it drew a reaction from the man it was targeted at. And that speaks eloquently to me.

...

Fair enough, though to be clear I'm suggesting Verin already did her investigating--knowledge of Slayer is out there in Darkfriend circles, and I'm suggesting she--with her usual thoroughness--meticulously tracked down Slayer's base of operations. Alanna therefore is not being sent to investigate, but instead, armed with the results of Verin's investigation, is being sent to kill him.

 

From there, on the why, as I stated in greater detail above, Luc reacting negatively to a connection being made between himself and the Borderlands suggests to me that he has something in the Borderlands to hide--and not just exposure as a baddy.

 

Furthermore, I'm suggesting that after the Dark Prophecy, Verin investigated and found hints of whatever he was hiding--or, at the least, hints of a connection between badass assasin Slayer and the Borderlands. Maybe nothing more than rumours. Her comment, therefore, may have been to test these rumours.

...

Yeah, she had to have linked it--in tGH based just on the name Luc, she pulls out Luc Mantear as the subject of the prophecy, then in tSR, Jordan has Verin make a direct comment about Luc's name when she meets him--let's just say, Jordan can be very subtle, but this wasn't one of those moments.

 

As for the rest, perhaps--but the thing is Verin had other, much better resources than Alanna--and she herself was a much better researcher. I don't think simple investigation would be the purpose--but action on the other hand... We know that Verin's Oath protected Slayer under the betrayal of the Great Lord cause, or else he'd already be dead. So, like when she moved on the Black Ajah, she had to arm someone else with the knowledge and let them act. I suggest the same here.

 

I find the idea of Verin discovering a 'secret' about Slayer interesting, but what could it be? Why Arafel?

Just a few other non-expanded ideas that are coming to mind: Did Verin discover the ____ in the Blight? Could Alanna actually be in Kandor, with the Red-veils? Could she really be in Malkier? How accurate is Rand's GPS?

[tje]

as far as the ___ in the Blight. I think it is a city. I don't really know why, other than maybe the large population of df's dreadlords and other people who need the necessities. I also seem to remember a scene with Moridin where he was farming in the blight. just my two cents

[Vardar]

1) How would Allana know Luc's face?

2) How did Verin know about Luc/Isam? did I miss/forget something?

3)the middle of this thread is hella confusing

4) How do we know she got a letter from Verin and it made her leave?

5) I still want to believe she's black, but I know it's unlikely.

[Luckers]

1. She met him.

2. The Dark Prophecy, which she translated, spoke of him. And Darkfriends knew of Slayers existence.

3. Can't help you there.

4. We see it happen in TofM.

5. Fair enough.

[Barid Bel Medar]

1) How would Allana know Luc's face?

2) How did Verin know about Luc/Isam? did I miss/forget something?

3)the middle of this thread is hella confusing

4) How do we know she got a letter from Verin and it made her leave?

5) I still want to believe she's black, but I know it's unlikely.

 

1.) She saw him in the TR when he was "Lord Luc" (what a great disguise)

2.) As Black Ajah, she would have known of him. Also she knows the prophecies pertaining to Luc/Isam, and she was there in TR when he shows up, and remarks on the Trollocs shouting ISAM.

4.) We don't. But there was an open envelope with the blood red seal in her rooms after she left. Too similar to the ones she gives to Rand, Mat and Galad.

 

 

Rand's comment isn't really that accurate. He says in the borderlands, probably Arafel. It does narrow it down alot, she couldn't be in Tanchico or anything, but it is possible she is in northern andor, Kandor, Sheinar or Saldaea.

[Vardar]

1. She met him.

2. The Dark Prophecy, which she translated, spoke of him. And Darkfriends knew of Slayers existence.

3. Can't help you there.

4. We see it happen in TofM.

5. Fair enough.

 

Damn duh. Didn't think about that. I would ask how she put the two together, but Bel provided that. So damn Verin was just snitching away huh.

[thisguy]

[Edit: Removed paragraph as per Admin instruction not to comment further on the misunderstanding]

 

I'd give you an answer but it's been so long since I've read I might miss something. Personally, I don't think she's a dark friend and I don't know why she went to Arafelle. I think Verin was trying to make amends at the end so I'm guessing she knew something and wanted to protect Rand somehow.

[TootThatHorn]

ive always found it odd that iirc alanna had a very surprised reaction to bonding rand, and i believe she explains it as feeling his constant pain he is in, but i also wondered if perhaps she was compelled by verin to bond him. Perhaps that is why she did it and had the reaction of it, cause i think she was very distraught for quite awhile. perhaps she was compelled and that compulsion was conflicting with her morals of having just mentally raped a man. hard to say, but i find it a possibility.

 

part of what i think for her being sent off by verin is that there is either some task that no one has thought of as of yet, or maybe people are right and she is sent off after slayer. could very well be true given that verin should have intimate knowledge of him over any light sider, even perrin. Now i doubt alanna would be able to do anything about him, mostly because i see his fate being dealt by perrin, but i could see her being used as a plot tool. By that i mean that she could end up either being captured, and be yet another trap for rand like lanfear is, or, she is going to get her self killed. If that happens then the plot can take a very nasty turn if this has a signicant psychological effect on rand. Time will tell.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I had the same thought about Verin, but re-reading LoC, I found that Verin's thoughts just after the bonding makes it clear that she didn't use Compulsion on Alanna to do this.

 

Lord of Chaos: Lessons and Teachers

 

Very likely it had been frustration over that, plus the frayed state of her nerves, that had led to what she did with Rand. Not only bonding him, but doing it without his permission.

[TootThatHorn]

I had the same thought about Verin, but re-reading LoC, I found that Verin's thoughts just after the bonding makes it clear that she didn't use Compulsion on Alanna to do this.

 

Lord of Chaos: Lessons and Teachers

 

Very likely it had been frustration over that, plus the frayed state of her nerves, that had led to what she did with Rand. Not only bonding him, but doing it without his permission.

 

ah good, thank you for that part...i do still see her as probably dying though, i dont find her to be important enough for anything else besides a plot twist

[Hyronimus]

I like the idea that Alanna is being sent to the Borderlands to destroy Luc and/or his base of operations. I'm not completely convinced it holds up all the way, but it does have some merit. As much as any other theory I've heard. I just don't see anyone killing Slayer except Perrin though. They have been set up as mortal enemies since book four and I think having Alanna kill him would be disappointing so I don't want to believe that is the purpose of her going to the Borderlands. It could still be something as simple as stopping another surprise trolloc invasion like the one in Caemlyn. Does anyone remember the list of Waygates that Loial said he couldn't convince the Elders to shut down?

 

Another point about this I would like to bring up is how Alanna left her rooms. If someone has come up with an explanation for this then I would like to know. It may be important to her purpose that she left secretly apparently without using a significant amount of the power.

 

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

Alanna has always been an obvious target with the bond. the letter could have been a warning come to late. Also I wonder whether there is some way that rand's dreams could be accessed through her because of the bond.

 

The evidence that she left off her own bat is the stuff taken from the room. Skimming does take less rght? or some other sneaky weave i guess (shrug) would prefer she had set off to hold the line at that fortress on the border of Kandor and Arefel, BUT i wouldn't be surprised it it was something completely new (like why the hell the borderlanders came south). We have some forshadowing that there is more to Alanna than meets the eye.

 

The slayer hunter is plausable, just...why would she disapear, with Rand MIA for that? If she could leave why not go after Rand? unless she was a darkfriend.

 

so,

1. she is kidnapped and Lanfear is using her to get into Rand's dreams

2. She is dark and looking for the out given to her in Verins letter

3. she snuck out somehow for some mission like slayer hunting as per Verins letter.

4. She is the queen of Arefel's cousin and she's off to get the third lost Sa' angreal which is also the real horn which is the real final seal on the darkone's prison which has to be destroyed by channelling all three powers through it with a circle of Aiel singing the Ogier tree singing song while dancing the sarsara (spelling?)

[Vardar]

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

She can make gateways, why is the gateway theory out of the question? Moggy made a small one in her tent, why couldn't she do the same.

[Neophyte]

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

She can make gateways, why is the gateway theory out of the question? Moggy made a small one in her tent, why couldn't she do the same.

 

Corele was on guard just outside her rooms. If Alanna had channeled enough to make a gateway big enough to put herself through, Corele presumably would have felt it, unless Alanna knows how to conceal the fact that she's channeling (like the Forsaken do). Plus, no one was waiting outside Moghedien's tent to see if she was going to channel - Egwene thought that she was secure.

[Vardar]

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

She can make gateways, why is the gateway theory out of the question? Moggy made a small one in her tent, why couldn't she do the same.

 

Corele was on guard just outside her rooms. If Alanna had channeled enough to make a gateway big enough to put herself through, Corele presumably would have felt it, unless Alanna knows how to conceal the fact that she's channeling (like the Forsaken do). Plus, no one was waiting outside Moghedien's tent to see if she was going to channel - Egwene thought that she was secure.

 

Thanks. I'm not sure if she can invert her weaves. I'm guessing not yet.

[jwood01]

I hope she is kicking some shadowspawn ass in Arafel. I hope Kiruna is there too defending her homeland.

[Neophyte]

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

She can make gateways, why is the gateway theory out of the question? Moggy made a small one in her tent, why couldn't she do the same.

 

Corele was on guard just outside her rooms. If Alanna had channeled enough to make a gateway big enough to put herself through, Corele presumably would have felt it, unless Alanna knows how to conceal the fact that she's channeling (like the Forsaken do). Plus, no one was waiting outside Moghedien's tent to see if she was going to channel - Egwene thought that she was secure.

 

Thanks. I'm not sure if she can invert her weaves. I'm guessing not yet.

 

Actually, the knowledge of how to invert weaves has pretty much gotten out - Cadsuane and her group lapparently know it, and Egwene shared it with the Salidar Aes Sedai, so there is no shortage of potential sources for Alanna to have learned inverting.

 

But I think that there is a difference between inverting your flows, so that another channeler cannot see them after you've woven them, and concealing the fact that you've embraced the Source at all. We know that both can be done, but I'm not sure that all the groups who know how to invert also know how to conceal the fact that they've embraced the Source. After all, Corele wouldn't have expected to see the weaves - she was outside the room. She just would have felt Alanna channeling a significant amount of saidar. I think she would have felt Alanna embracing the Source whether Alanna knows how to invert weaves or not.

 

Unless, of course, Alanna also knows how to conceal her embracing of the Source. This is a slight indicator, to me, in the direction of "Alanna could be Black Ajah." Hardly conclusive, but a point in that direction. It could also be that she simply knew a secret way out of her room.

[Vardar]

Agree here. Good old locked room mystery. If it's given then that she didn't use a gateway OR skim (does she know how?) then the three options left use saidin, TP or slayer. all three imply that she was kidnapped, the small use of power an attempted to save her self. That's providing she isn't a darkfriend but I think Verin would have got on her case before hand nor given her a letter unless that letter shared the only way out of the oaths and time suddenly became very inportant.

 

She can make gateways, why is the gateway theory out of the question? Moggy made a small one in her tent, why couldn't she do the same.

 

Corele was on guard just outside her rooms. If Alanna had channeled enough to make a gateway big enough to put herself through, Corele presumably would have felt it, unless Alanna knows how to conceal the fact that she's channeling (like the Forsaken do). Plus, no one was waiting outside Moghedien's tent to see if she was going to channel - Egwene thought that she was secure.

 

Thanks. I'm not sure if she can invert her weaves. I'm guessing not yet.

 

Actually, the knowledge of how to invert weaves has pretty much gotten out - Cadsuane and her group lapparently know it, and Egwene shared it with the Salidar Aes Sedai, so there is no shortage of potential sources for Alanna to have learned inverting.

 

But I think that there is a difference between inverting your flows, so that another channeler cannot see them after you've woven them, and concealing the fact that you've embraced the Source at all. We know that both can be done, but I'm not sure that all the groups who know how to invert also know how to conceal the fact that they've embraced the Source. After all, Corele wouldn't have expected to see the weaves - she was outside the room. She just would have felt Alanna channeling a significant amount of saidar. I think she would have felt Alanna embracing the Source whether Alanna knows how to invert weaves or not.

 

Unless, of course, Alanna also knows how to conceal her embracing of the Source. This is a slight indicator, to me, in the direction of "Alanna could be Black Ajah." Hardly conclusive, but a point in that direction. It could also be that she simply knew a secret way out of her room.

 

It'd be too easy for the Black to kill Rand if she was black. Kill her, Rand's dead. Problem solved (Back when they were still trying to kill him)

[Neophyte]

It'd be too easy for the Black to kill Rand if she was black. Kill her, Rand's dead. Problem solved (Back when they were still trying to kill him)

 

The Shadow has never really made a concerted effort to kill Rand. It's one of my major quibbles with them. Ishamael only really tried once, in Tear. The other Forsaken have only tried to kill him when he came for them, or rejected them (Lanfear). Even when Moridin sent them after him at the Cleansing, killing him was supposed to be a last resort. And recently, they're under orders not to harm him physically.

 

Actually, I think its an odd coincidence that she left just when he got DF detection skills ... it could be a genuine coincidence, but I'm suspicious.

[Tiberius]

If someone else opened a gateway from a distance to inside her room, would that be felt? I don't know who her accomplice in a break out would be, but it might explain things.