one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Cybertrolloc]

Then he told them the rest...of the Dark One's plan? The one that could go so far as to include the Seanchan, Masema, the WC, rebellion in Tear and Carhein, Taim? The plan that we're still not sure is considerably unaltered from LoC? Personally I find it a stretch that he even talks about the other Forsaken, this is now the adults are taking over the operation to him.

 

Discounting Sammael at the time of murder is difficult, this is the guy that doesn't worry about Moiraine and company too much in Illian except for dropping a Dark Hound pack on them. The guy who sends an assault on the Stone a few weeks later at most. The guy who goes alone to Carhein to mess with Rand, and fights on the frontlines against Ashamen and Rand's forces...it's really only his admission that he'll kill Asmodean on sight along with Lanfear when he's also attempting to psych out Graendal (which he does to at least some extent) that can be used to discount him.

 

No luck yet on finding that Jordan quote :(

[rochaid]

cwestervelt;ur right about all that but i think it was graendal due to the process of elimination,not because of large amounts of evidence...who else could it have been??various other non-forsken characters can be de-bunked easily enough..so i just think its her,but in the end i wouldn't be surprised if the actual killer was a HUGE anti-climax.and Cybertrolloc sammael says "I would (kill him) if I could find him, but he has gone over to al'Thor. He's teaching him!" He is also trembling with anger, which makes it quite unlikely he's feigning ignorance of Asmo's fate,as sammael was quite an emotional man.this is a pretty big de-bunk if u ask me

[Guest Egwene]

If that quote is as you remembered, Cybertrolloc, than I feel Finnland scoring a point. Why should the 'where' be a problem for the DO if it is only the palace?

[Graendals favourite]

I've seen the quote mentioned before on the old boards, but even then there was no reference. I think it was said it was from a signing. In case it is inaccurate, I've ignored it, also because it seems we should know more to understand it. It clearly disallows balefire, since that would be only how, not where. Egwene, Finnland shouldn't fit since Lanfear was recycled without problems. Also, Asmo died in the palace, he wasn't across the doorframe.

 

Frankly, the quote seems to tell us more about what limitations there are to the DO's ability to recycle souls, than Asmo.

 

Edit, though I've tried to twist the quote to mean, the DO couldn't recycle Asmo, because he didn't notice his death. That is, he died quickly in the palace where Rand would have perhaps been someone to focus on. Or something like that, if he can zoom in on the world.

[Guest Egwene]

I have found a reference to this quote on this thread on Theoryland

 

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=102&theo=2455

[Cybertrolloc]

Rochaid, remember Graendal thinks he's trembling with rage, though I'm inclined to go with her opinion (her PoV). Personally I agree, though like Graendal says, Sammael is always hotheaded.

 

If that quote is as you remembered, Cybertrolloc, than I feel Finnland scoring a point. Why should the 'where' be a problem for the DO if it is only the palace?

Yeah, you'd think TaR for it being another reality as opposed to "somewhere else," but Ishy died in TaR and was ressed. Find a quote and bring your copy of Tellings of the Wheel or whatever that book Lanfear talks about is ;)

 

I just bring things up to be complete, I don't have a personal stake in this, but would like to find at least a reasonable answer one of these days (and for now that reasonable answer is still Graendal).

 

Edit: Thanks for link, on immediate read through it just seems the same with means (something One Power), doesn't help us with a who. This may disqualify Narg...do we really know that Trollocs can't channel? ;)

[Guest cwestervelt]

I agree with Egwene that for the location to have anything to do with an inability to resurrect Asmodean the door would need to lead somewhere other than a room in the Andoran Palace. It would be enough to account for Asmodean's shock. It would also account for several other issues, including why no one noticed anything, why there was no body, why there wasn't any evidence of a murder...

 

If it were just the method that prevented resurrection, it would all but confirm that Balefire was the murder weapon as that is the only method we know of to be permanent. (Prologue of Lord of Chaos and RJ comments in a Tor Question of the Week.

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152)

[Chel Vanin]

I read some of the posts on the site posted by Egwene and in them they had quoted RJ as saying something to the effect of "...the DO couldnt bring Asmo back because of HOW and WHERE he died..." and also "Asmo took the 'long-fall' that time". The sentence before Asmo dies gives reference to his quote which says

..."The roots would give way eventually, the LONG FALL would come, but until then he was alive." then the famous death scene..."He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. "You? No!" The word still hung in the air when death took him.

(or I could just be over-analyzing what RJ said, but hey, everyone else and their mother has over analyzed this, why not me?)

 

This is geting lengthy and I havent even gotten to who I thought did it (I voted for 'someone else').

 

I think it was Isam/Luc (if someone wants to tell me why everyone assumes it had to be someone who could channel that would be great :))

I think this for a number of reasons

 

1. He could have gotten into the wine pantrty w/o letting Rand know via his T'A'R gateways

2. Asmo would have known Slayer was an assassin for the DO, so he would have known right when he saw him that he was going to die, prompting his "You?No!" line.

3. Referencing again to when RJ said something like "...the DO couldn't bring Asmo back because of HOW and WHERE he died" (not his exact words but you get the gist) This is my theory. The 'HOW he died, I believe, references to the fact that Asmo had been cut off from the DO, his state of being was how he died. The WHERE I believe was T'A'R where time is not the same as in the normal world (which may have prompted the DO's "...even I cannot step out of time" quote to Demandred when Demandred was summoned to SG)

 

Now that I have thouroughly over-analyzed Asmo's death I await your posts as to why the "Slayer theory" is impossible.

(If Slayer was already suggested and summarily shot down I apologize but I really didnt want to read 96 pages of Asmo death posts)

 

Edit: Asmo could have died in T'A'R by Slayer making a gateway right at the entrance of the pantry and his "one step" into the pantry could have actually sent him into T'A'R.

[Jonn]

I read some of the posts on the site posted by Egwene and in them they had quoted RJ as saying something to the effect of "...the DO couldnt bring Asmo back because of HOW and WHERE he died..." and also "Asmo took the 'long-fall' that time". The sentence before Asmo dies gives reference to his quote which says

..."The roots would give way eventually, the LONG FALL would come, but until then he was alive." then the famous death scene..."He pulled open a small door, intending to find his way to the pantry. There should be some decent wine. One step and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. "You? No!" The word still hung in the air when death took him.

(or I could just be over-analyzing what RJ said, but hey, everyone else and their mother has over analyzed this, why not me?)

 

This is geting lengthy and I havent even gotten to who I thought did it (I voted for 'someone else').

 

I think it was Isam/Luc (if someone wants to tell me why everyone assumes it had to be someone who could channel that would be great :))

I think this for a number of reasons

 

1. He could have gotten into the wine pantrty w/o letting Rand know via his T'A'R gateways

2. Asmo would have known Slayer was an assassin for the DO, so he would have known right when he saw him that he was going to die, prompting his "You?No!" line.

3. Referencing again to when RJ said something like "...the DO couldn't bring Asmo back because of HOW and WHERE he died" (not his exact words but you get the gist) This is my theory. The 'HOW he died, I believe, references to the fact that Asmo had been cut off from the DO, his state of being was how he died. The WHERE I believe was T'A'R where time is not the same as in the normal world (which may have prompted the DO's "...even I cannot step out of time" quote to Demandred when Demandred was summoned to SG)

 

Now that I have thouroughly over-analyzed Asmo's death I await your posts as to why the "Slayer theory" is impossible.

(If Slayer was already suggested and summarily shot down I apologize but I really didnt want to read 96 pages of Asmo death posts)

 

Edit: Asmo could have died in T'A'R by Slayer making a gateway right at the entrance of the pantry and his "one step" into the pantry could have actually sent him into T'A'R.

 

The short answer is that Slayer often brags about his big kills. There is a scene after Asmodean's death where he brags about his most prized kill being Aes Sedai. Logic would say that he would be more proud of killing a traitorous Forsaken than a mere Aes Sedai.

 

It's the same logic that eliminates Sammael AFTER the murder.

 

See, the process of elimination is incomplete until all of the suspects can be accounted for. To not admit your guilt in a POV is pretty much saying that you did not do it, hence to not even think of it weakens your case dramatically.

[rochaid]

and also,if it was slayer,why keep it a secret,if it was him,then the real question would be who had hired him

[Chel Vanin]

Well I wondered when I'd finally hit the end of the road on that one...I was a bit suspicious when he didn't mention anything in his PoV but I still won't give up hope. There is always the chance that the DO wanted Asmo's death a secret for some crazy evil reason, to keep the other Forsaken on their toes or something, you never know :)

[Guest cwestervelt]

Wasn't it "the long jump" they kept commenting on, not "the long fall" on that other site? They were interpretting it as meaning he fell and weren't looking at other possible explanations. If the door did lead somewhere else, a single step can be seen as a long jump distance wise.

[Jonn]

Well I wondered when I'd finally hit the end of the road on that one...I was a bit suspicious when he didn't mention anything in his PoV but I still won't give up hope. There is always the chance that the DO wanted Asmo's death a secret for some crazy evil reason, to keep the other Forsaken on their toes or something, you never know :)

 

Kept secret from who, the readers? If he doesn't mention it in his POV when he mentions other notable kills, the only people he intends to keep it secret from are us, the audience.

 

It's similar to Cyndane never mentioning it when she has a POV. In her POV she thinks about wanting nothing more than to kill Rand. If she had killed Asmodean, she had her chance at Rand right then, why not do it, if she was so determined?

 

It's similar to Demandred in the next book, being cleared of the murder when his thoughts don't match the information he's receiving about Asmodean's death.

 

It's similar to Sammael basically saying he wished he knew more about what happened about Asmodean's involvement in the events at Caemlyn.

 

And of course it looks bad when Graendal has several POV's and several encounters with people who mention Asmodean, and she makes no mention of it, and shows no reaction that points to her guilt.

 

If there's a reason to keep it secret, we as an audience have yet to perceive it.

 

My best guess is that to reveal the killer would lead to another revelation that shouldn't be revealed just yet.

[Korlaf]

I didn't bother to read all 90 some pages, but has Rand been ruled out as the killer?

 

Asmo would be able to see the weaves Rand had used and therefore knew his death was upon him.

 

Maybe this is WAY out there, but LTT tries to steal the source from Rand on many occasions. Is it possible that he managed to wrench the cource from Rand and slay Asmo? He is always mumbling about killing everyone so it gives him motive.

And i don't remember Rand ever mentioning that Asmo disappeared. If i were Rand i'd wonder where asmo went since Asmo was such a well of knowledge for Rand to tap into! But i don't remember Rand every mentioning Asmo having disappeared or anything to that effect.

 

Just food for thought!

[rochaid]

i don't own the books but i'm pretty sure rand mentions(to himself) in one of his PoV appearances of how asmodean had dissappeared.and also we hadn't really seen ltt tryin t pry the power away at this stage so it dosn't fit in with the "obvious" quote by rj

[Cybertrolloc]

Chel, Ishy died in TaR and came back. What could Slayer have done that would prevent the Dark One bringing him back (Jordan says the DO can't bring back Asmo)?

 

Korlaf, I've seen it claimed that Jordan has debunked LTT as the killer, don't have a cite (maybe the FAQ or Tor Question of the Week). Rand still doesn't know that Asmo is dead and gone, and since the meeting with Bashere seems concurrent with the murder, doubtful.

[SilkWWU]

I just wanted to throw this out there. I made a new reply, but I'll post it here too...

 

Debunking The “Two Servants Theoryâ€

 

Travis G.

 

The original theory that I will be discussing, dissecting, and finally debunking (for the most part) can be found at the WOT Encyclopedia (http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/) under “Theories and Unanswered Questions.†While interesting and well thought out, there are blatant errors that all but those of us, who actually went back, double checked, and rehashed the actual text, would have found. Please, before you read this counter-argument, go back and analyze the original theory at the website posted above. It will make much more sense to you since I will be writing in direct relation to that document.

It is quite apparent that the author of this theory is correct in the location of Asmodean’s death. Unfortunately, that tells us less then we can hope. It is not an uncommon area for people to be wandering in. Rand states, “I walked this way with Elayne and Gawyn the day I met Morgase.†So now that we have the general location set (as presented in the TST), we can begin to dissect the encounter with the servants and really put to rest the myth that the killer had to be one or both.

The author of the “Two Servants Theory†claims that it is obvious that “they were more then servants.†I find this claim hard to prove. We need to realize whom we are talking about. The Forsaken. The passage where Rand encounters the pair of unlucky servants goes like this:

A man and a woman crouched against the wall, servants liveried in red and white, short of their middle years and holding each other as though for protection. Seeing Rand—there was more to the name; not just Rand—the man started to rise from where he had huddled away from the Myddraal-led band, but the woman hauled him back by his sleeve.

“Go in peace,†Rand said, putting out a hand. Al’Thor. Yes, Rand al’Thor. “I’ll not hurt you, but you could be hurt if you stay.â€

The woman’s brown eyes rolled up in her head. She would have collapsed in a heap if the man had not caught her, and his narrow mouth was working rapidly, as if he was praying but could not get the words out.

Rand looked where the man was looking. His hand had stretched out of his coat sleeve far enough to bare the Dragon’s golden maned head that was part of his skin. “I will not hurt you,†he said, and walked on, leaving them there. He had Rahvin to corner yet. Rahvin to kill. And then?â€

 

This is the paragraph that has been examined by this author. I find his conclusions concerning the servants mentioned in this paragraph quite absurd, while the obviousness at their lack of involvement is quite glaring. Considering that the killer of Asmodean must have been someone who could channel, considering the quickness and finality of his death. Which means that the servants (one or both) had to be the Forsaken if they were anything other then normal servants. I will dissect chronologically in this paragraph. When can you ever imagine any of the Forsaken “huddling together?†The entire mannerisms displayed by these servants’ defeats any idea that they could have been Forsaken. From the huddling, to the fainting, to the staring in awe while praying at Rand’s tattooed arms, none of which could coincide with any of the ways a forsaken would act. Especially Sammael or Graendal.

There is one other aspect that sheds opposing light onto whether both of the servants were Forsaken. Surely Rand would have noted a scar on the face of the man such as the one Sammael has during the description, since in multiple instances throughout the book, he uses Lews Therin’s memories to recognize faces, places, etc. So, if they were in fact Sammael or Graendal in disguise, they would be under Illusion. But, remember, when under Illusion, if you are touched, it is easily recognizable that it is not your real appearance. So when the female servant faints, and the male servant catches her, Rand (who is still talking to them) would have noticed (particularly wrapped in Saidin, with its attention to detail) that there was an Illusion going on. I believe that I have presented enough counter-evidence to close the case on whether or not the servants were the killers of Asmodean. Now, lets look beyond the servants and into the culprits and find a few other major errors that the author of the “TTST†missed which completely destroy his theory of Sammael as the main killer.

The second half of his article is relatively sound when discounting Forsaken as suspects. Unfortunately he makes a grave mistake when he says that Semirhage has a POV disproving her as a suspect in the Prologue of Lord of Chaos. While she does have a POV I have failed to find any reference in that section to how she wouldn’t know about Asmodean’s death. The only thing that happens is in Demandred’s POV earlier, Shai’tan (I have no fear!) mentions that Asmodean will not be brought back. While Sammael in his own POV, states, “And why would he kill Asmodean? I would if I could find him, but he has gone over to al’Thor. He is teaching him!†While Graendal counters under her breath, “Always some excuse for your failures.†Here, we get Sammael stating right out that he wants to know where Asmodean is, and Graendal says only that seemingly suspicious answer? It can be interpreted to mean that Graendal knows more about that subject then she is letting on. Of course we know that the Forsaken also maneuver against each other, which means that Sammael could be lying. To find further proof, we move further along in LOC, chapter 23 to be exact, where Graendal replies to Sammael’s inquiry to the whereabouts of the other Forsaken.

I’m sure I know what Demandred is scheming, but where is he hiding? Where is Semirhage? Mesaana? What about Asmodean and Lanfear? Moghedien?

Those cold fingers returned, imprinting themselves on her skull. He would not lounge there and talk this way—he would not dare suggest what he was suggesting—unless. . . .â€Asmodean and Lanfear are dead, and I am sure Moghedien must be, too.â€

It is here that the final piece of who killed Asmodean comes into play. If there is a strong case for one of the Forsaken it is Graendal. This last part proves it, in a sense. For she is quite sure that Asmodean and Lanfear are dead, while she thinks Moghedien is dead to (though we know she’s not).

The two servants were in fact, just that. The location of the death, it really hardly mattered, while I may be completely wrong on my analysis of Graendal being the killer, I can say in full confidence that the Forsaken were NOT masquerading as servants when Rand encountered them.

[Auld Manriva]

Am i brain dead or what? 96 pages about a happening i never really thought about past "Oh...Mo Deans croaked and Randy's still gotta lot to learn".Daaang It!

 

Who could dispute such a Sterling Dissertation as the one preceeding me.My hats off to you silkWWU :shock:

 

I vote for Graendal

[Guest Egwene]

Come on guys... there must be a few more votes out there for Moiraine!!! :P

[Vo0]

I don't think it's Graendal it's too flamboyant and out in the open.. Graendal wouldn't risk confrontation in the palace even by being recognised by another Aes Sedai.. i don't think it was Lanfear either because why would she let him teach Rand then kill him ? doesn't make sense. As for Moridin and SH not being introduced, We're not introduced to Slayer until AFTER the attempt on SS's life and AFTER the darkfriend killing in the tower so why does it make it impossible to be Moridin or SH ?... although it doesn't make sense for Asmo to say You? No! to SH as he wouldn't know WHO SH was rather than WHAT (after all if you don't know he's a Mydraal you're plainly blind or just stupid) as for Moiraine... i doubt that because she still didn't know about him at the time. As for being a male channeler wouldn't Rand have felt the gateway ?

 

If any of these theories/thoughts have been brought up before and have been rejected i apologise but i cbf reading 95 pages :P

[Briantium]

Whew! 97 pages! I didn't endeavor to read through ALL of them, but I read a few pages worth, and one point was made that really struck me, one that I hadn't considered before regarding Lanfear, who had been my favorite who I stubbornly clung to as the culprit... and that is, why would Lanfear settle for killing Asmodean when her real ire was directed towards Rand and also Aviendha??? (And I've never remotely considered Moiraine, and nothing I've read here has even convinced me to consider her a suspect, so I won't get into her.)

 

Lanfear is just as strong (or near enough as makes no difference) as Rand and so has no fear of him overwhelming her, and even if she didn't feel "up" to taking him on again or even ambushing him, she handled both Aviendha and Egwene with ridiculous ease while confronting Rand. Yes, she knew who Asmodean was and taking him out would be a hindrance to Rand, but given her mental state so soon after being scorned by Rand (Lews Therin) once and for all, why just settle for killing Asmo while leaving Aviendha -- who was just around the corner, or near enough -- alone? Why suddenly go from attacking Rand in front of everybody in Cairhein irregardless of who saw to sneaking around and picking off a weakened Asmo and leaving it at that? The order from the DO to not kill Rand didn't come down til the next day, the prologue of LoC, so it wasn't because of that.

 

Having said that, I haven't completely abandoned Lanfear as the culprit, primarily because when I first read FoH my immediate response was, "Lanfear is somehow back". BUT... I think Graendal makes more sense (I don't really buy into any of the other theories -- Slayer, Sammael, Fain, etc -- for most of the same reasons others have already pointed out). Graendal's motive for taking out Asmo are obvious: He's a traitor and/or a failed captive, both punishable by death, it will hurt Rand, and -- assuming Taim is indeed a DF at the least -- makes way for Taim to arrive and join Rand without threat of another male channeler (this was before it was known Rand was going to recruit and found the Asha'men). And I also think there are no glaring, unexplainable-have-to-make-wild-speculations-to-fit holes in Graendal's case.

 

And I still put a lot of stake in the line, "Idly -- and with a shiver, too", in Asmo's POV right before he bought it. A female -- Graendal -- was channeling nearby and he felt it, but didn't take it for what it was. Aviendha may have been near enough to feel it,too, but we can't be positive, nor is it clear if any of the wise ones who could channel had arrived in the palace yet who Aviendha might have assumed was channeling instead. Plus she was at the fountain with Mat, preoccupied by so much water that she very well may not have noticed anyway, depending on how far away she was from the actual incident. And if you correlate Belal's death (No! fading away) with Asmo's "You? No!" hanging in the air, with no body left, and no way for the Dark One to recover his soul...a female killed him with balefire. Most likely Graendal.

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't think it's Graendal it's too flamboyant and out in the open.. Graendal wouldn't risk confrontation in the palace even by being recognised by another Aes Sedai.. i don't think it was Lanfear either because why would she let him teach Rand then kill him ? doesn't make sense. As for Moridin and SH not being introduced' date=' We're not introduced to Slayer until AFTER the attempt on SS's life and AFTER the darkfriend killing in the tower so why does it make it impossible to be Moridin or SH ?... although it doesn't make sense for Asmo to say You? No! to SH as he wouldn't know WHO SH was rather than WHAT (after all if you don't know he's a Mydraal you're plainly blind or just stupid) as for Moiraine... i doubt that because she still didn't know about him at the time. As for being a male channeler wouldn't Rand have felt the gateway ?

 

If any of these theories/thoughts have been brought up before and have been rejected i apologise but i cbf reading 95 pages :P[/quote']

 

You have your timeline a little off. Moiraine knew about Asmodean almost from the beginning.

[Jonn]

Whew! 97 pages! I didn't endeavor to read through ALL of them, but I read a few pages worth, and one point was made that really struck me, one that I hadn't considered before regarding Lanfear, who had been my favorite who I stubbornly clung to as the culprit... and that is, why would Lanfear settle for killing Asmodean when her real ire was directed towards Rand and also Aviendha??? (And I've never remotely considered Moiraine, and nothing I've read here has even convinced me to consider her a suspect, so I won't get into her.)

 

Never remotely even once considered Moiraine? Why not?

 

Lanfear is just as strong (or near enough as makes no difference) as Rand and so has no fear of him overwhelming her, and even if she didn't feel "up" to taking him on again or even ambushing him, she handled both Aviendha and Egwene with ridiculous ease while confronting Rand. Yes, she knew who Asmodean was and taking him out would be a hindrance to Rand, but given her mental state so soon after being scorned by Rand (Lews Therin) once and for all, why just settle for killing Asmo while leaving Aviendha -- who was just around the corner, or near enough -- alone? Why suddenly go from attacking Rand in front of everybody in Cairhein irregardless of who saw to sneaking around and picking off a weakened Asmo and leaving it at that? The order from the DO to not kill Rand didn't come down til the next day, the prologue of LoC, so it wasn't because of that.

 

Having said that, I haven't completely abandoned Lanfear as the culprit, primarily because when I first read FoH my immediate response was, "Lanfear is somehow back". BUT... I think Graendal makes more sense (I don't really buy into any of the other theories -- Slayer, Sammael, Fain, etc -- for most of the same reasons others have already pointed out). Graendal's motive for taking out Asmo are obvious: He's a traitor and/or a failed captive, both punishable by death, it will hurt Rand, and -- assuming Taim is indeed a DF at the least -- makes way for Taim to arrive and join Rand without threat of another male channeler (this was before it was known Rand was going to recruit and found the Asha'men). And I also think there are no glaring, unexplainable-have-to-make-wild-speculations-to-fit holes in Graendal's case.

 

And I still put a lot of stake in the line, "Idly -- and with a shiver, too", in Asmo's POV right before he bought it. A female -- Graendal -- was channeling nearby and he felt it, but didn't take it for what it was. Aviendha may have been near enough to feel it,too, but we can't be positive, nor is it clear if any of the wise ones who could channel had arrived in the palace yet who Aviendha might have assumed was channeling instead. Plus she was at the fountain with Mat, preoccupied by so much water that she very well may not have noticed anyway, depending on how far away she was from the actual incident. And if you correlate Belal's death (No! fading away) with Asmo's "You? No!" hanging in the air, with no body left, and no way for the Dark One to recover his soul...a female killed him with balefire. Most likely Graendal.

 

Let's start with the shiver from Asmodean. How does that eliminate Moiraine? It doesn't. In fact it makes her more likely if you think about it. Lanfear and Graendal should both know how to mask their ability and weaves. In an ambush against another Forsaken, why give him even a slight chance to detect them? In fact Graendal is even better than most at masking her ability. In Winter's Heart, Verin's circle faces Graendal and Verin is shocked to find that Graendal is holding saidar without the light surrounding her or any sign that she is holding.

Moiraine is actually the most likely person to make Asmodean feel her presence through her holding saidar, because she is the least likely to mask or even be able to hide her ability.

 

Here's the alternate take on Asmodean shivering. He shivered because he was just thinking about Lanfear and his predicament.

 

Your statement about not remotely thinking about Moiraine strikes me as funny. You say your initial thought was that:

 

"Lanfear is somehow back".

 

Well, if that was actually true, what does that also imply? Perhaps that Moiraine was alive as well?

 

And if you correlate Belal's death (No! fading away) with Asmo's "You? No!" hanging in the air, with no body left, and no way for the Dark One to recover his soul...a female killed him with balefire.

 

Uh...Moiraine killed Be'lal, with balefire...Why wouldn't you think of Moiraine, even slightly? You just mentioned two major events that are connected to her within the same scene.

 

At Asmodean's murder.

[Briantium]

My skepticism of Moiraine being a suspect...I really don't think Asmo would have that reaction of what was clearly terror upon recognizing her. If it was Moiraine, he'd be more puzzled and surprised, at least until he realized what she was going to do, and then maybe, desperately, "No!"...but that's not what happened. He didn't say, "You? How can you be alive? I saw you and Lanfear— Wha? No!" If anything, his reaction is the strongest evidence against Moiraine, being a modern Aes Sedai he had contempt for (remember how dismissive he was of "those fool Three Oaths"). Just as important, he didn't know she knew who he was, and thus had no idea she'd kill him on sight (which assumes further still that she, in fact, would kill him at all, given how she previously tolerated Rand keeping him as a teacher).

[Jonn]

My skepticism of Moiraine being a suspect...I really don't think Asmo would have that reaction of what was clearly terror upon recognizing her. If it was Moiraine, he'd be more puzzled and surprised, at least until he realized what she was going to do, and then maybe, desperately, "No!"...but that's not what happened. He didn't say, "You? How can you be alive? I saw you and Lanfear— Wha? No!" If anything, his reaction is the strongest evidence against Moiraine, being a modern Aes Sedai he had contempt for (remember how dismissive he was of "those fool Three Oaths"). Just as important, he didn't know she knew who he was, and thus had no idea she'd kill him on sight (which assumes further still that she, in fact, would kill him at all, given how she previously tolerated Rand keeping him as a teacher).

 

You've added something that's not there in the scene. The killer was there and killed him before he could say more than two words...two short words at that. Your skepticism of what you believe he would say to Moiraine is rendered moot because your scenario doesn't fit the timeline. he wasn't given too much time to say much.

 

This means that the killer took one look at him and fired. There's hardly time for Asmodean to say anything like you described.

 

Again, it's been said a few times before that seeing someone who was supposed to be dead (along with the person you were JUST thinking about) would be scary to say the least. I think him saying "You?" actually works in favor of Moiraine. It's an interrogative and it does express confusion, which would be quite rational to express when one of the least likely people shows up behind a door he just opened.

 

I rather think he'd expect one of the Forsaken to kill him on sight, so the need to say "you?" is actually not there. Logically he would probably just skip to the "No!" if he saw one of the Forsaken or instead of "you?" say something to the effect of "wait!" as he might try to talk his way out of getting killed. Furthermore, why make it a question of "you?"

 

As a traitor you're wanted dead by all of the Forsaken whom you know and recognize. It makes little sense to question their identity with a "You?" when he's already familiar with them and can recognize them and their obvious purpose if he's alone with them. In other words, it wouldn't be a question. He'd know who they were and why they would possibly be there.

 

Moiraine on the other hand is a shock to see as she should be dead. She is someone he'd recognize but still be in wonderment and stunned to see instead of a servant or the like. Also there is a question as to how and why she would be there, and if she zapped him with the power, her Third Age style of chanelling would involve a gesture with the hands, prompting the shouted "No!"

 

Lanfear and Graendal...any of the Forsaken really would not prompt a question as to what was about to happen to him let alone who they were, and why they would be there.

"You?"

That's unnecessary is such a case. It's actually quite key to why I think it is Moiraine.[/b]