one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Old Skool]

Why cant it be "Slayer"? Every forum ive seen as used an elimination process to gather that Greandal murdered him. But i just dont believe that she did it because there is nothing but this "elimination process" that proves she did it. (unless i missed sumthing...if i did post it...there is no point flamining for ignorance) I could understand Moiraine except for the fact that she knew about him teaching rand and knew that rand could defend himself if asmodean tried to kill him. But wouldnt Moiraine allow Asmodean to keep giving lessons to Rand because he helped rand alot.

 

But slayer, what we know of slayer is that he is the darkside's "assassin." Hmmmmm...maybe, just maybe it was he who murdered Asmodean? No? Why not? He can virtually jump out of thin air, he is considered an "assassin," and asmodean would probably recognise him...well you would think so anyways...anywayz let me know what you think. Peace out.

[Cybertrolloc]

But slayer' date=' what we know of slayer is that he is the darkside's "assassin." Hmmmmm...maybe, just maybe it was he who murdered Asmodean? No? Why not? He can virtually jump out of thin air, he is considered an "assassin," and asmodean would probably recognise him...well you would think so anyways...anywayz let me know what you think. Peace out.[/quote']

It's Jordan's book, only he can decide what's impossible (and hopefully he doesn't find Narg killing Asmo with the wrench impossible).

 

Premeditated Slayer killing ignoring motive is nigh unbelievable from what Jordan's given us. Random room in a palace, how does Slayer find him (you can't track from TaR that way)? Why would Slayer give him time to react--even with the block Asmo isn't helpless (and without Slayer knowing that, he would have infinitesimal hope of surviving let alone killing Asmo)?

 

At the time, we had the taunt in Fal Dara (Blood calls blood etc...), and Perrin's fights with him in TaR. Putting the full Slayer package together that we saw in WH, that doesn't pass the intuitively obvious to the most casual reader test. And in that passage, Slayer thinks about his greatest hits, why wouldn't Asmo be on that list yet some random Grayman in the White Tower is?

[Angel of Death]

I like the Slayer idea, but then again I said jusy before, im starting to like Lanfear also. I used to like Greandal but i dont think do any more, she is too widely guessed, and considering RJ's comments on the matter, it seems that not many people have correctly guessed and told him thier answer. Unless he is being serective, after all it is meant to be obvious.

[Old Skool]

Well Slayer was given "gifts" from the DO. Maybe the DO uses slayer to hunt and kill rogue darkfriends. He is hunting Fain. You may ask, if slayer can kill Asmodean so easily, Fain wouldnt be a problem. Well I think that would be wrong. From what we know of Fain, he is incredibly deadly, he has been corrupted with possibly the two greatest evils in the WOT universe. Creating a deadly combination. Anyway, slayer does have motive, as I said before Asmodean has gone rogue, and I do beleive the DO mentions this somewhere, isnt that motive enough?

[Cybertrolloc]

He has certain nifty and possibly unique powers (i.e. entering/leaving TaR in the flesh without channeling) and experience in using them, that's not the particular problem. It is weird that Slayer would give Asmo a chance to recognize him, without Slayer knowing about the shield it's instant death, and with the shield it's still chancy that Slayer can kill Asmo.

 

Jordan's made a few revelations over the years, one of which is the Dark One didn't order Asmo killed directly. But then I doubt Slayer deals with DO directly, though the merger probably happened in Shayol Ghul (stuff can be done there that can't elsewhere like the Mindtrap).

 

Maybe the DO uses slayer to hunt and kill rogue darkfriends. He is hunting Fain. That's what Moridin is doing and might have been doing as Ishamael. Also remember how we've seen Slayer kill--he likes his victims helpless or unsuspecting, why in random room and not Asmo's bedroom while he sleeps?

 

In short, Slayer's motive is someone ordered the hit (Chosen or high placed darkfriend) or Slayer acted on his own (and we have no tie between Slayer and Asmo beyond both being franchise players on team shadow). I don't see anything to put Slayer on his own as the killer. Slayer as a hit opens up possibilities like Lanfear or Rhavin (if I don't talk to you by such and such, snuff Asmodean--Rhavin not being likely since he's gone, no need to keep that secret), but the manner of the killing still strikes me as atypical for Slayer.

 

Also don't forget Jordan's how and where Asmo was murdered mean he's gone for good, Slayer has TaR...but Ishy died in TaR as well, and Asmodean wouldn't be helpless there either.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

I think it was Mazrim Taim. His name was mentioned many times in the book that Asmo died (which RJ said was a clue-his name had been mentioned in the book) also in the next book at the start Mazrim Taim presents himself to Rand. Now think about this, mazrim taim could have been a Darkfriend since the early books (or even earlier) that would be why Asmo recognised him. He can channel obviously, which would explain why Asmo died so suddenly and why there was no body.

[Guest Majsju]

Just stumbled over this ol' interview.

 

10. Did the Dark One order Asmodean's death? If not, how does he know about it in the prologue of Lord of Chaos?

 

No, he didn’t order Asmodean’s death, but he knows a great deal about what goes on in the world, though it isn’t complete knowledge.

 

11. Can Slayer somehow find his victims?

 

Not in the sense that Padan Fain can track Rand, and to a lesser extent, Mat and Perrin. Slayer’s value lies in what you might call his unique ability for someone unable to channel.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=96

[Asmodean]

I think it was Mazrim Taim. His name was mentioned many times in the book that Asmo died (which RJ said was a clue-his name had been mentioned in the book) also in the next book at the start Mazrim Taim presents himself to Rand. Now think about this, mazrim taim could have been a Darkfriend since the early books (or even earlier) that would be why Asmo recognised him. He can channel obviously, which would explain why Asmo died so suddenly and why there was no body.

 

Pre-LoC he was only mentioned as a false Dragon, which kind of stretches the obvious factor. And I believe his appearance in LoC takes place about a month after Asmo's death, so he didn't arrive soon enough to commit the crime.

[Asmodean]

I like the Slayer idea, but then again I said jusy before, im starting to like Lanfear also. I used to like Greandal but i dont think do any more, she is too widely guessed, and considering RJ's comments on the matter, it seems that not many people have correctly guessed and told him thier answer. Unless he is being serective, after all it is meant to be obvious.

 

The problem with that is Lanfear and Morraine were two of the most widely-guessed in the early days of the mystery along with most of the other Forsaken until those Forsaken were disproved one by one in later books (and one could argue Slayer as well by not mentioning Asmo in WH)

 

If one were to look at it from this angle. That it must be a character that is "rarely-guessed", you have to look on the "good" side.

[Guest Egwene]

Where did you get this info from, Asmodean? I have been trying to find out what the guesses were after the book came out initially... Would love to see a poll from those days. Like you say, the most widely guessed ones are likely to be wrong...

[mike]

why oh why is the death of asmodean such a stickler?

 

i have found no reason for his death and disappearance to weigh in so heavily in the story line. :roll:

 

can anyone please list 3 reasons for me :?:

[Kaffa]

Too true friend. But we both know this site doesn’t focus on pertinent topics. In this case it's simply a matter of not knowing that drives us all nuts..... Are there other more interesting topics to discuss? Certainly.... But after almost a hundred pages of discussion on what must be the fifth Asmodean thread one must conclude that his death has been one of the most fascinating Wheel of Time moments....... Kinda sad huh.... :shock:

[Angel of Death]

Maybe he didn't die, maybe hes pretending. Lets just ignore RJ's words.

[Guest Egwene]

Having been the originator of this thread, I'd like to recall it's purpose:

 

This thread is for:

 

anyone that hasn't discussed this for years

anyone that hasn't comitted suicide yet over this topic

anyone that has discussed this for years, but is kind enough to share the sum total of their infinite knowledge with the ignorant rest of us

anyone wanting to just look in, shake their head and dissapear again

anyone at all

 

......lets face it - a WoT forum without an Asmo thread.....unthinkable!!

 

 

The question is not answered yet... do you need another reason????? :P

 

... however, to give you one... there are still votes coming in on the poll. So keep it going, friends :D

.

[Jonn]

why oh why is the death of asmodean such a stickler?

 

i have found no reason for his death and disappearance to weigh in so heavily in the story line. :roll:

 

can anyone please list 3 reasons for me :?:

 

There's always SOMEONE on these numerous threads about Asmodean who says this as well.

 

I'll give you some reasons as to why this figures:

 

First and foremost, it's a hole in the narrative. Anytime you do something to a character and present no resolution to the scene, it creates a hole in the narrative that, if left alone, will continue to draw attention to itself. RJ is too smart an individual to be ignorant of this and too coy about the matter to really sell the supposition that he's surprised that this attention has built up around the issue.

 

If any of you has read Hamlet before, Asmodean is much like the characters, Rosencranz and Guildenstern. They aren't really major players in the plot, but they serve a purpose. Their fate is only unraveled in the final scene, almost at the very ending of the play. The detail of their demise could have been left out of the final draft, but the author (Shakespeare) had seen it was needed for whatever reason. In any case, you could probably figure out what might have happened to them without the mention in the final act. Hamlet's uncle had sent him bearing orders to England, unkowingly carrying the warrant for his own execution. In other words, whoever gave that letter to the English King, would be put to death. You have everything you need to know, to figure what happened to Hamlet's "friends" but it isn't confirmed until the end. Hamelt is a long play, but not nearly so long as RJ's epic. I'm pretty sure someone at some time has watched Hamlet for the first time and right in the middle of the final Act probably wondered, "What happened to those two guys who took Hamlet to England?" It would seem odd to see Hamlet escape his fate by chance and not mention exactly what had befallen his companions. Yet, it wasn't enough to stall the flow of the play, until that information came to light at the end. It just fit, that little bit at the end... Strange as it was that it should.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it fit in dramtically, the delay of a seemingly minor detail. Modern readers are by now quite familiar with this device of revelation. It would suit well that RJ has put a twist on the convention, by making it particularly vague what has happened to Asmodean. There are numerous possibilities as to how he was dispatched, but throughout the years RJ himself has set the limitations with much guile. It's something he is quite known for actually, to set something up and reveal the details of what happened before at a much later time. An example is the slight mystery of who sent those trollocs to the Stone of Tear to aid Rand. People had some time to question who it might have been and even to settle on a popular guess. Two books later it was revealed to be someone completely off the line of thought most were thinking of.

 

I culd go on with several more reasons why Asmodean's death figures, but this is the most important reason: It's intriguing.

 

Anyone who says otherwise is too cynical to comment on the matter. It's part of the fun of the novels.

[Guest Egwene]

100 pages!!!

[Graendals favourite]

Congrats to all! We've made it to 100 pages! :D

[Maverick8088]

100 pages makes for a lot of reading! Did I miss it or did no one else think of Luc/Slayer? Asmodean certainly would know him as a long time agent of the shadow and he has been used as an assassin before by the Forsaken. He was powerful enough to kill two Aes Sedai, albeit one Black, with Adeleas and Ispan. Any reason why not him?

[Cybertrolloc]

Maverick8088, no one else has ever mentioned this and I see how much sense it makes. Slayer killed Asmodean, and all the rest of you are fools. FOOLS!

 

P.S. Try the bottom half of page 99 for starters ;)

[Maverick8088]

oops.. guess I missed that page. sorry. :oops: after 98 pages of reading my eyes were getting a little tired

[Guest cwestervelt]

He was powerful enough to kill two Aes Sedai, albeit one Black, with Adeleas and Ispan. Any reason why not him?

That wasn't Slayer, that was another Black Sister within Elayne's party.

 

The only Aes Sedai that Slayer killed were the two Black Sister's in the Stone of Tear. They can't be used to indicate he can kill one under normal circumstances though. They were prisoner's so it is safe to assume they were shielded at all times and didn't have any form of weapons. For an Aes Sedai without a Warder, that generally leaves them helpless to defend themselves against anyone who is physically stronger.

[Phil_Megrim]

How bout this go through all the books after his death and see how many forsaken questions his absence. I think it was Shadar Haran cause if another forsaken came he'd be like all dry washing his hands and trying to talk his way out of it, but instead he froze up with a certaintiy that death was unavoidible. Any forsaken would act competitive around each other not scared stupid

[Eelfinn]

I didn't read the entire 100 pages so this might have been mentioned before, I don't know who did it but from the way asmo was surprised it must have been somebody who shouldn't have been there, maybe somebody who's supposedly dead at that time? I don't think it's any of the recycled forsaken cause they all have a different body and are unrecognizable, but it could have been a forsaken or just anybody disguised as one of the dead ones, yes?

 

Oh yeah, who said he's dead? he could be in one of the vacuoles. I haven't read that book in a while so I could havbe missed the part where it said 'Asmodean is dead'.

[Guest Majsju]

Oh yeah, who said he's dead? he could be in one of the vacuoles. I haven't read that book in a while so I could havbe missed the part where it said 'Asmodean is dead'.

 

The book flat out says it, "Death took him". RJ has later on several occasions confirmed that Asmo is very much dead, and it was definitly not a play with words (Moridin means Death)

[Rational_Solutions]

i beleive it was slayer. due to the fact that he was used by the DO to attempt to get Fain. I belive that slayer is the DO's hound to get the ones that sorely disappoint him.