Blademaster Worthiness

[Suttree]

that list has to be re-thunk due to the events in ToM.

while Lan might still be the best, Gawyn beat 3 elite Power-enhanced Seanchan assassins simultaneously and then he becomes a Warder. To me, that puts him secondif not equal to Lan. In any event he ranks ahead of Galad until Galad becomes a Warder. One-hand Rand would be beat against any blade master, I believe his POV says that. Once he gets his new body, and assuming it has 2 hands, he will have over 400 years of blade master experience and that would change everything.

 

No it doesn't as BS list comes after ToM. Galad is still ahead and when Brandon said Gawyn is luckier than he thinks he was referring specifically to that fight.

 

Exactly, which happened before he was bonded.

 

and the list still came out after he was bonded, it is where things stand post ToM so your point is?

 

You just admitted that it refered to a specific fight... before he was bonded. Let me put it another way, that's the rating for that book, not the next.

 

Yes his added note on Gawyn refers to a specific fight but it has nothing to do with the rest of the ranking.

 

I have seen you stretch meaning to fit your viewpoint numerous times but this has to be right up there with the most ridiculous. So when asked after ToM was released, BS gave an answer that actually refers to the ranking post TGS? Come on mate, give it a rest.

 

What you suggest would be rather ridiculous. I was referring to TOM and AMOL.

 

In that case you have totally lost us. Post ToM after Gawyn was bonded BS said he is still behind Galad. So what was the point of your posts? In seems as if you were insinuating the rankings change post bonding. We know per BS that isn't the case.

[Kahsm]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

[Finnssss22]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

[Smiddywesson]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

[Smittyphi]

We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen

 

From a former Damane who probably believed everything that was told her from her Sul'dam. We don't know exactly how they operate except they blend in with the shadows. Does extinguishing light affect their vision? Possibly. If they have no shadow to hide in, do they appear like regular people with warder like reflexes that come from the ring? Possibly. If so, that supports my theory. If you can't see them, excellent swordsmanship is not a requirement, just a willingness to be, in essence, a suicide bomber. Gawyn, 4th best in the land, could quite possibly take them on because of his skill. He almost died. Unfortunately we don't know enough to come to a definitive conclusion from the text of the books.

 

Why is the word of Brandon Sanderson not taken literally on this subject is incomprehensible. He's got the notes. I sincerely hope that Jordan's notes say that Gawyn is lucky.

[kght22]

phaw, mat would whip all their asses with his sword spear!, and with one eye!! (maybe even an arm tied behind his back and a pretty lady tickling him too!!) =P

[Suttree]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Sorry but what? We have both RJ and BS ranking Galad above Gawyn. You are right there is nothing to argue because both authors have told us how things stand.

[Entreri]

Seanchan blademasters are nothing compared to Randland blademasters (Rand with a few months training defeated Seanchan blademaster Turak).

 

The Seanchan do have great armies, excellent strategy etc., but they don't have truly epic fighters like the top tier Warders (Lan, Gawyn, Sleete etc) or the top tier Aiel.

 

The Seanchan depend a lot on strategy to win...damane...flying creatures.

 

Thus the damane believing nobody can defeat a blood knive may well be true for Seanchan warriors.

 

 

 

 

What Gawyn did was more impressive than what Galad did, even if Valda was the #2 swordsman in the land (even better than two armed Rand). The way Valda handled Galad, that could be the case. Valda was fast as "lightning". This is the kind of speed Lan moves at.

 

The only other time I remember seeing "lightning" mentioned in combat: "The axe in Byar's hands lashed out like lightning...and Lan seemed to lean casually aside, letting the blade pass so close"... Of course Lan easily dispatched Byar so fast with his hands, Perrin was not sure wtf he saw.

 

 

Each of the blood knives are as deadly as a blademaster. That Gawyn fought and won against 3 is a miracle. I don't think anyone beside Lan or Mat or Jearom could pull that off.

 

It is not their swordsmanship that makes them lethal, but that they are almost impossible to see and follow, and having enchanced speed.

 

I can see why anyone reading the last book would consider Gawyn > Galad.

[David Selig]

Seanchan blademasters are nothing compared to Randland blademasters (Rand with a few months training defeated Seanchan blademaster Turak).

That's not a really a proof. By the same logic you can say that Ishamael is nothing special as a channeller since Rand kicked his butt a few times in the first 3 books without any channelling training. LTT's memories and the ta'veren factor make Rand a special case.

[Entreri]

Seanchan blademasters are nothing compared to Randland blademasters (Rand with a few months training defeated Seanchan blademaster Turak).

That's not a really a proof. By the same logic you can say that Ishamael is nothing special as a channeller since Rand kicked his butt a few times in the first 3 books without any channelling training. LTT's memories and the ta'veren factor make Rand a special case.

 

When Rand has faced Randland blademasters he has been owned (Lan practice) or close to a stalemate, Toram Riatin (while Rand is better, Toram was close enough, far far beyond Turak).

 

We did not see Turak stumble, slip, something hitting him etc...so I doubt the ta'avern effected that fight. LTT's memories possibly.

 

A few months after the Turak fight, he faced Be'lal, we know how far far beyond Be'lal was than Rand. Rand called him a true blademaster.

 

Seanchan do not have truly badass elite warriors of the level Randland does.

 

We see examples of this in the real world: Particular societies produce incredible warriors (e.g. Gurkha's), where as others depend on large numbers for victory. The Warders are such a society and so are the Aiel.

 

 

In the case of Ishamael, only when Rand gets Callandor was he truly trying to kill him. Ishamael and Lanfear had other plans for him. Toying or underestimating a dangerous foe can get anyone killed, and even the better fighter can lose this way (e.g. Valda, lots of examples in the real world).

[Kahsm]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Finally someone who gets it. It has nothing to do with "airtime". If has to do with hype around those gawyn has defeated, and the description of how he fights, way more thought than any other swordsman PoV we've ever seen.

 

And Finnssss, the fact that BS felt he had to explain his answer with the "lucky" statement is proof positive that even BS realizes Gawyn reads better than where he's apparently ranked. Nowhere in the books is Gawyn said to just be lucky, so you wouldn't know that without the quote.

[Finnssss22]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Finally someone who gets it. It has nothing to do with "airtime". If has to do with hype around those gawyn has defeated, and the description of how he fights, way more thought than any other swordsman PoV we've ever seen.

 

And Finnssss, the fact that BS felt he had to explain his answer with the "lucky" statement is proof positive that even BS realizes Gawyn reads better than where he's apparently ranked. Nowhere in the books is Gawyn said to just be lucky, so you wouldn't know that without the quote.

 

 

Look...time and time and time again we have been shown that pure skill, speed and strength does not make you best. Whether is was all the way back to Lan vs Ryne, Galad vs Valda or Gawyn vs the Bloodknives.

 

Dissecting these fights, it leads to the biggest difference between the three, mainly between Lan and Galad compared to Gawyn.

Lan and Galad are precise, emotionless and always thinking ahead while Gawyn (as he has been portrayed over and over and over since from day 1) is impulsive and very emotional.

All three fight accordingly and while Gawyn is no doubt up there on the skill scale, those weaknesses hold him below that of Lan and Galad.

 

To put it best, Gawyn flies by the seat of his pants, Lan and Galad do not. That's why they are ranked higher.

 

As far as what the ex-damane said about the Bloodknives...how many times have we been told by RJ himself that what the characters know and believe is not always what is actually true. If that same damane had of said that Santa was real, would you then be arguing that one as well?

 

 

The evidence of why Gawyn is ranked where he is, is all there. You just need to see past all the flashy lights presented recently to understand it.

 

Given your history around here of rarely seeing past your own nose, I won't hold my breath :)

[Kahsm]

My history of usually having the longest posts containing quotations analogies, and fairly detailed descriptions of my logic in getting to my conclusions? The ones where people like you just say "nah, I'll stick to my own opinion because yours is often unpopular and therefore must be wrong". Whatever. This post is more of the same from the blind dragonmount readers. You're evidence is other things you believe, there's nothing factual here and you completely ignored my points. You just read my premise, ignore anything else, then repost your WOT ideologies. Well if you don't read my post then yes, it must look like I pull crazy things out of the air.

 

Blah blah blah. It has nothing to do with "airtime". Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

And Finnssss, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah "blah" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, so you wouldn't know that without the quote.

 

I understand how it's hard to make a legitimate response when that's what you're seeing.

 

You need to stop letting your hate for a character blind you. Go read Gawyn's combat scenes again, he's methodical.

 

"Sleete attacked, sword lancing forward in a straight thrust delivered for maximum speed. The Viper Flicks Its Tongue, a bold strike, made more effective because Sleete fought in tandem with the narrow, short man rounding toward Gawyn's left. Marlesh [... desc of Marlesh...].

Gawyn countered The Viper Flicks Its Tongue with Cat Dances on the Wall, knocking aside the strike and going for the legs in one sweep. It wasn't intended to hit, however, it was a defensive move, meant to enable him to keep an eye on both opponents, Marlesh tried Leopard's Caress, but Gawyn moved into Folding the Air, carefully knocking aside the blow and waiting for another from Sleete, who was the more dangerous of the two. Sleete repositioned, taking smooth steps, his blade to the side as he set his back to the massive piles of hay at the rear of the stuffy barn.

Gawyn moved into Cat on Hot Sand as Marlesh tried Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose; it was rarely useful against someone on the defensive, but Marlesh was obviously tired of being parried. He was getting eager. Gawyn could use that. And would.

 

Yeah.. gawyn doesn't think ahead at all... </sarcasm> give me a break. As I have said, the way that fight is written makes Gawyn look far more considerate and fast-thinking than any pov we've seen previously. I ahve also said that it could very well be simply the difference between how Sanderson chose to write swordplay vs RJ. But that is irrelevant, the outcome is still Gawyn looking goodly. And Sanderson obviously understands or he wouldn't have felt he needed to explain his Ranking. If you think it's clear in the text, then you're the one going against God now.

 

Oh yeah and of course,

"Things seemed so simple when he was sparring. The world contracted down-compressed like berries squeezed for their juice-into something smaller and easier to see from up close" explaining his "Void".

 

I get that Gawyn is a whiny annoying SOB 90% of the time, but you apply that to his swordfighting because you dislike him, and there's no evidence that it effects him in the contest, and there's self-reporting that it doesn't.

 

And another...

A person leaped out, swinging a sword for Gawyn's head. He whipped his blade into Cutting the Reeds, knocking aside the attack. The assassin was much shorter than Gawyn, so he should have had a strong advantage in reach. Yet the assassin moved with a blurring speed, sword darting at Gawyn in a series of thrusts, not using any sword forms Gawyn recognized.

Gawyn fell into Twisting the Wind, as he was forced to act as if he were surrounded. He barely kept the attacker at bay. He could hear yells in the distance—guards responding to his call. He shouted again.

He could sense frustration in the attacker's moves; the assassin had expected to defeat Gawyn quickly. Well, Gawyn had expected the same, but focusing on this opponent was very difficult. Gawyn's blows—when he could make them—hit air when they should have landed on flesh. Gawyn twisted to the side, raising his blade for Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. But that gave the assassin an opening; he flung another knife at Gawyn, forcing him to the side.

The knife clanged against the wall, and the assassin fled down the hallway. Gawyn rushed after, but he couldn't keep up. Soon the assassin was far away, darting to the left. That direction led to a series of intersections.

Such speed, Gawyn thought, stopping, breathing in and out in gasps, hands on knees. It isn't natural

 

Maybe this is the passion you think makes him suck?

But they had such a strong advantage. Gawyn wasn't certain he could stand against two of them.

Yes you will, he told himself sternly. If you fall, Egivene dies.

 

That also helped to build the hype (not just the word of the Damane) for this...

A last, desperate thought occurred to him. With a cry, he leaped to the side and yanked a pillow from Egwene's bed. Blades cut the air around him as he spun and slammed the pillow on the lantern, smothering it.

Plunging the room into darkness. No light. No shadows.

Equality.

The darkness evened out everything, and in the night, you couldn't see color. He couldn't see the blood on his arms, couldn't see the black shadows of his enemies or the whiteness of Egwene's bed. But he could hear the men move.

He raised his blade for a desperate strike, using Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose, predicting where the Bloodknives would move. He was no longer distracted by their misted figures, and his strike hit true, sinking into flesh.

He twisted, yanking his blade free. The room fell silent save for the fall

[Finnssss22]

My history of usually having the longest posts containing quotations analogies, and fairly detailed descriptions of my logic in getting to my conclusions? The ones where people like you just say "nah, I'll stick to my own opinion because yours is often unpopular and therefore must be wrong". Whatever. This post is more of the same from the blind dragonmount readers. You're evidence is other things you believe, there's nothing factual here and you completely ignored my points. You just read my premise, ignore anything else, then repost your WOT ideologies. Well if you don't read my post then yes, it must look like I pull crazy things out of the air.

 

Blah blah blah. It has nothing to do with "airtime". Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

And Finnssss, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah "blah" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, so you wouldn't know that without the quote.

 

I understand how it's hard to make a legitimate response when that's what you're seeing.

 

You need to stop letting your hate for a character blind you. Go read Gawyn's combat scenes again, he's methodical.

 

"Sleete attacked, sword lancing forward in a straight thrust delivered for maximum speed. The Viper Flicks Its Tongue, a bold strike, made more effective because Sleete fought in tandem with the narrow, short man rounding toward Gawyn's left. Marlesh [... desc of Marlesh...].

Gawyn countered The Viper Flicks Its Tongue with Cat Dances on the Wall, knocking aside the strike and going for the legs in one sweep. It wasn't intended to hit, however, it was a defensive move, meant to enable him to keep an eye on both opponents, Marlesh tried Leopard's Caress, but Gawyn moved into Folding the Air, carefully knocking aside the blow and waiting for another from Sleete, who was the more dangerous of the two. Sleete repositioned, taking smooth steps, his blade to the side as he set his back to the massive piles of hay at the rear of the stuffy barn.

Gawyn moved into Cat on Hot Sand as Marlesh tried Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose; it was rarely useful against someone on the defensive, but Marlesh was obviously tired of being parried. He was getting eager. Gawyn could use that. And would.

 

Yeah.. gawyn doesn't think ahead at all... </sarcasm> give me a break. As I have said, the way that fight is written makes Gawyn look far more considerate and fast-thinking than any pov we've seen previously. I ahve also said that it could very well be simply the difference between how Sanderson chose to write swordplay vs RJ. But that is irrelevant, the outcome is still Gawyn looking goodly. And Sanderson obviously understands or he wouldn't have felt he needed to explain his Ranking. If you think it's clear in the text, then you're the one going against God now.

 

Oh yeah and of course,

"Things seemed so simple when he was sparring. The world contracted down-compressed like berries squeezed for their juice-into something smaller and easier to see from up close" explaining his "Void".

 

I get that Gawyn is a whiny annoying SOB 90% of the time, but you apply that to his swordfighting because you dislike him, and there's no evidence that it effects him in the contest, and there's self-reporting that it doesn't.

 

And another...

A person leaped out, swinging a sword for Gawyn's head. He whipped his blade into Cutting the Reeds, knocking aside the attack. The assassin was much shorter than Gawyn, so he should have had a strong advantage in reach. Yet the assassin moved with a blurring speed, sword darting at Gawyn in a series of thrusts, not using any sword forms Gawyn recognized.

Gawyn fell into Twisting the Wind, as he was forced to act as if he were surrounded. He barely kept the attacker at bay. He could hear yells in the distance—guards responding to his call. He shouted again.

He could sense frustration in the attacker's moves; the assassin had expected to defeat Gawyn quickly. Well, Gawyn had expected the same, but focusing on this opponent was very difficult. Gawyn's blows—when he could make them—hit air when they should have landed on flesh. Gawyn twisted to the side, raising his blade for Boar Rushes Down the Mountain. But that gave the assassin an opening; he flung another knife at Gawyn, forcing him to the side.

The knife clanged against the wall, and the assassin fled down the hallway. Gawyn rushed after, but he couldn't keep up. Soon the assassin was far away, darting to the left. That direction led to a series of intersections.

Such speed, Gawyn thought, stopping, breathing in and out in gasps, hands on knees. It isn't natural

 

Maybe this is the passion you think makes him suck?

But they had such a strong advantage. Gawyn wasn't certain he could stand against two of them.

Yes you will, he told himself sternly. If you fall, Egivene dies.

 

That also helped to build the hype (not just the word of the Damane) for this...

A last, desperate thought occurred to him. With a cry, he leaped to the side and yanked a pillow from Egwene's bed. Blades cut the air around him as he spun and slammed the pillow on the lantern, smothering it.

Plunging the room into darkness. No light. No shadows.

Equality.

The darkness evened out everything, and in the night, you couldn't see color. He couldn't see the blood on his arms, couldn't see the black shadows of his enemies or the whiteness of Egwene's bed. But he could hear the men move.

He raised his blade for a desperate strike, using Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose, predicting where the Bloodknives would move. He was no longer distracted by their misted figures, and his strike hit true, sinking into flesh.

He twisted, yanking his blade free. The room fell silent save for the fall

 

 

...and again, if we were arguing about this without "The word of God", you would have a good debate going. I DO see your points but we DO have that "word" so it's all quite moot. Might as well start arguing that Taim is Demandred because that IS exactly what you're doing here eh, know what I'm saying there bud ;)

 

BTW, who the hell says I don't like Gawyn? I DO like him and definitely more so than that stick in the mud Galad.

[Smiddywesson]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Sorry but what? We have both RJ and BS ranking Galad above Gawyn. You are right there is nothing to argue because both authors have told us how things stand.

 

 

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

[Muad Cheade]

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

By that logic, is Mazrim Taim Demandred? There's overwhelming evidence to support it but all we have to counter it is RJ saying it's false (and the matter of Flinn).

 

We've heard the "Word of God," and it's absolute. Taim is not Demandred and Galad is a better swordsman than Gawyn.

[Mr Ares]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Sorry but what? We have both RJ and BS ranking Galad above Gawyn. You are right there is nothing to argue because both authors have told us how things stand.

 

 

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

There might be precious little to support Galad being better than Gawyn, but there is none at all of the reverse. You could point to Valda or the Bloodknives, but that's a poor example, as there is nothing to state how Galad would have performed against Bloodknives, or Gawyn against Valda (or even Valda against Bloodknives). If someone does something, but there is nothing to suggest how well someone else may have done the same thing, you can hardly use that as evidence of the one who did it being better.

 

 

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

By that logic, is Mazrim Taim Demandred? There's overwhelming evidence to support it but all we have to counter it is RJ saying it's false (and the matter of Flinn).

 

We've heard the "Word of God," and it's absolute. Taim is not Demandred and Galad is a better swordsman than Gawyn.

That's a terrible example. There is not, and never has been overwhelming evidence to suggest Taim was Demandred, and there is very conclusive evidence in the books to rule it out - even if RJ had remained quiet on the matter, Flinn alone shoots down Taimandred. Word of God has its place, but it's probably best not to rely too heavily on "the author said it, so it must be true." More importantly, the books say Galad at least was better, and have nothing conclusive to show that he has been surpassed. Coupled with Word of God saying he is still better, it should be considered case closed.

[Elan Tedronai]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Sorry but what? We have both RJ and BS ranking Galad above Gawyn. You are right there is nothing to argue because both authors have told us how things stand.

 

 

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

 

 

Exactly. Finally someone said the truth. Unless it's written properly into the story there's no way galad is better than gawyn RIGHT NOW. Doesn't matter what sanderson says. The guy is clueless on alot of WOT things and without maria he would be ice skating uphill. Galad nearly got owned the first time he faced a proper blademaster. His only saving grace was the sheer arrogance and confidence of valda who instead of toying with the prince ought to gave finished him as quickly as possible.

 

 

Galad has so far in the series has shown no leadership qualities choosing to give allegience to that doofus woif king, no poise, got lucky against valda (now where did i hear the word lucky before) and compared to his brother, has been outfoxed in battle as a leader

 

Compare that to gawyn who had killed 2 blademasters in one night, his own teachers in fact, formed a group called the younglings from scratch, bested down the warder revolt during siuan sanche's exile, taken part in dumai's wells the biggest battle in the series so far with his own group, launched sorties against gareth bryne's army and generally kicked everyone's ass he faced without a problem. Even mythical terangreal weaving assasins who outnumber him 3 to 1 in a darknend room with no space a swordsman craves could not finish him.

 

So you can talk about word of god, genes, emotional unstability and all that jazz but when you read the books from start to finish, Gawyn has bested his brother in terms of accomplishments and skills.

 

Personality wise he's still a c**t though...

[Pandemonium]

For the record, I argue this half heatedly. Basically, "it's possible that, but even I don't think so..." Something along those lines. My actual position, as I have stated many times, is that "the books say otherwise, but whatever, lets go with god."

 

However! you clearly believe the "lucky" referred to that particular fight, but you REFUSE to believe that the ranking, which was part of the exact same answer, could possibly also pertain to that fight, or at least the fights we've seen.

 

Given how the answer is worded, he's using the second part as a rational for his ranking, which would suggest the ranking was for the fight too, which makes sense since it was the last fight we saw to judge by -- before the bond.

 

Of course the effect of the bond has also been debated. Though Bryne seemed pretty stoked about it.

 

The books DO NOT say otherwise!!!

You are confusing a lot of "airtime" and focus to be something that it's not.

Just because we got a steady diet of Gawyn's sword play recently DOES NOT say anything other than we got a lot of Gawyn's sword play.

We know that he's good, very good and IF BS hadn't of come right out and said that Gawyn is still behind Galad AFTER the release of ToM....THEN, you would have an argument but he did so you definitely do not.

 

Like seriously, enough already, there is no argument to be made on this.

MOVE ON!!!

 

Sorry, not done yet. It matters little what BS says, he's accountable for what he published, and that includes Gawyn being ambushed by one bloodknife and surviving, and killing three and surviving with a little help from his girl. We are told this is physically impossible by one of the Sanchen and yet he did it. We are even shown the bloodknives are so fast you can't even see them except as a blur. Is that also true of the blademaster Galad faced? Where are the achievements of Galad beyond tricking Valda? BS can say Gawyn is lucky, but he didn't write Gawyn as the beneficiary of luck in those scenes. Sure BS twittered that Galad is more skilled, but we have yet to see it. Perhaps he'll put up or shut up in the MoL, but until then it's just talk and he can change his mind anytime he wants. Arguing the point like these are real people is ridiculous. Until BS publishes some act of Galad that proves him the better, up through ToM Gawyn has proven himself the better blademaster.

 

Sorry but what? We have both RJ and BS ranking Galad above Gawyn. You are right there is nothing to argue because both authors have told us how things stand.

 

 

It's not a very deep insight, but my meaning was up until this point in the story, the authors, both of whom apparently ranked Galad as a better swordsman, have given us precious little evidence of same in their story. If we are discussing what will be written in the future, we would obviously have to pay attention to the author's hints about his intentions. No doubt, we will be given some heroic act of Galad to evidence that ranking in the final book, but so far in the story, there's not much to support his higher ranking. For example, BS could run around at book signings and say Min was the top rated swordsman and Lan is an emo metrosexual, but until I see it written in the story, it's irrelevant.

 

 

Exactly. Finally someone said the truth. Unless it's written properly into the story there's no way galad is better than gawyn RIGHT NOW. Doesn't matter what sanderson says. The guy is clueless on alot of WOT things and without maria he would be ice skating uphill. Galad nearly got owned the first time he faced a proper blademaster. His only saving grace was the sheer arrogance and confidence of valda who instead of toying with the prince ought to gave finished him as quickly as possible.

 

 

Galad has so far in the series has shown no leadership qualities choosing to give allegience to that doofus woif king, no poise, got lucky against valda (now where did i hear the word lucky before) and compared to his brother, has been outfoxed in battle as a leader

 

Compare that to gawyn who had killed 2 blademasters in one night, his own teachers in fact, formed a group called the younglings from scratch, bested down the warder revolt during siuan sanche's exile, taken part in dumai's wells the biggest battle in the series so far with his own group, launched sorties against gareth bryne's army and generally kicked everyone's ass he faced without a problem. Even mythical terangreal weaving assasins who outnumber him 3 to 1 in a darknend room with no space a swordsman craves could not finish him.

 

So you can talk about word of god, genes, emotional unstability and all that jazz but when you read the books from start to finish, Gawyn has bested his brother in terms of accomplishments and skills.

 

Personality wise he's still a c**t though...

 

That is a convenient way to ignore Galad's accomplishments. There is nowhere in the books where Galad and Gawyn's skills are compared head-to-head except for where Gawyn says that Galad is better. We also saw that Galad lasted much longer in the fight with Mat Cauthon. Galad was clearly better earlier on, and we see no evidence that his skills or progress have declined.

 

Valda could have been one of the best swordsmen in the world after Lan. Lan was once out-matched by Ryne. I believe we had a similar situation with Galad vs. Valda. Valda was clearly quicker and more physically skilled than Galad, but Galad had more mental fortitude just like Lan had in his fight with Ryne. Also, we never saw the on-screen fight between Gawyn and Hammar. For all we know, Gawyn bested Hammar out of luck; Hammar may have fought half-heartedly and been afraid to strike down a favorite student. Also, Gawyn only won his fight with the blood knives because it was in tight quarters with no light. Beating a blood knife isn't something that only Gawyn can do, as even Gareth Bryne killed one. Just like Sanderson said, Gawyn was just very lucky-- he beat the blood knives only due to the logistics of that particular fight. In fairness though, Gawyn shows creativity when he fights-- he has modified the forms in a unique way and he was thoughtful enough to extingquish the candles with the bloodknives. However, Galad also shows some of this same resourcefulness in his battle with Valda.

[Eht Slat Meit]

So you can talk about word of god, genes, emotional unstability and all that jazz but when you read the books from start to finish, Gawyn has bested his brother in terms of accomplishments and skills.

 

"Accomplishments" don't count in determining the superiority of one blademaster to another. If they did, Rand would have been Lan's superior ever since he learned the forms, started whacking Forsaken left and right with blade & balefire, conquering every Light-based army in the world, and in generally making the accomplishment of every other character in the series minor by comparison. Even without the hand, that reasoning makes him the undisputed god of blademasters. But those accomplishments don't count; the only accomplishments that are relevant, the only skills that matter are the ones displayed in battle by one blademaster against another. To put it in practical terms, being a minor math prodigy who accomplished world peace doesn't make you Einstein, it makes you a visionary in an only tangentially related field.

 

So, what makes a blademaster better than another in battle? What determines the rankings? Two lads of similar strength - Does padding one's record by beating a bunch of lesser blademasters like Sleete, Hammar and Coulin make him a better blademaster than the other, who bested a far, far stronger opponent in Valda in battle? You're judged by the strength of your opponents, not their numbers.

[sVieira151]

Does it actually say whether Gawyn bested both his mentors in single combat? Because from as far as I could tell, he admitted to killing them, but I can't remember him mentioning it being single combat.

 

And about Galad vs Valda. You have to remember also experience counts a lot in a fight. How many people had Galad fought in the past, in real circumstances where life and death was on the line(as opposed to a spar)? How many people had Galad actually killed? None(that i can remember). Whereas Valda is a seasoned fighter, and has killed his fair share of people. That heaps a LOT of pressure on Galad in the fight, and you can tell that just from the way he is constantly thinking through the fight, rather than just letting himself relax(as say, Lan would). The first kill is always the hardest, and we shouldn't take anything away from Galad even though he profited from Valda's arrogance.

 

And also, Gawyn's fight with Sleete(and who was the other?) was a spar. There was no life and death attached to that. Circumstances would have changed had it been a fight to the death. Maybe Gawyn would have still won(probably) but we can't say for definite.

 

Oh yeah, and Elan. It doesn't matter if Galad has fucked up this and that battle, while Gawyn has lead all these people and done all of this. All that matters to determine who the best swordsman is, is who is best at using the sword. Sure, in the books even using that it may seem that Gawyn has appeared to be most skilled during his fight, maybe there was no space/point in having some random fights of Galad that weren't relevant to any plot, just to prove that Galad is better.

 

As someone said above me, if we were going by accomplishments of people to determine who was the best swordsman, Rand and Mat would be the best. But I don't necessary care who is better. As long as the good guys can kill the bad guys in front of them, that is all that matters. If Gawyn is encircled by 20 trollocs, it doesn't matter how good he is because he will die.

[Kahsm]

Hammar may have fought half-heartedly and been afraid to strike down a favorite student.

 

So you'll pull that out of NOWHERE. 100% complete speculation, but you will NOT accept the fact that while Gawyn says Galad is better, he ALSO says that he owes Galad for saving his life and all the evidence of him differing just about anything to Galad, including Egwene who he obviously loved. But you refuse to consider he might throw a sword fight?

[Kahsm]

Just throwing this out there, but maybe the stone was far enough away that the sense of it was weak?

[David Selig]

And about Galad vs Valda. You have to remember also experience counts a lot in a fight. How many people had Galad fought in the past, in real circumstances where life and death was on the line(as opposed to a spar)? How many people had Galad actually killed? None(that i can remember).

Actually he killed a lot of the Masema followers in Samara.

 

he ALSO says that he owes Galad for saving his life and all the evidence of him differing just about anything to Galad, including Egwene who he obviously loved. But you refuse to consider he might throw a sword fight?

But what would be the point of pretending to be worse fighter than Galad ? There's no benefit for Galad in that, it's noted a number of times he doesn't take pride in besting the other trainees in the Tower and he's not one to boast. Not to mention that Galad and Gawyn have been training for years under very good teachers, who surely would've noticed if Gawyn was holding back intentionally and letting his brother best him. Do you really think Gawyn of all people would be able to keep that lie a secret for years? We know how successful he was in hiding that he falling in love with Egwene from Elayne - his sister noticed it pretty much right away.

[kght22]

Just throwing this out there, but maybe the stone was far enough away that the sense of it was weak?

wrong thread