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[Spoiler Thread] GRRM's Dance with Dragons

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I'm usually a Tyrion and Dany fan but there chapters were just plain boring.

Jon was OK. The ending with Marsh's Salty Tears, the Smoking Wound and The Red Star knight getting ripped to shreds suggest

Jon is AA reborn. What has made this worse is GRRM has stated he wont start Book six until next year, which means 2014 is most likely

the year the next comes out. But given his history maybe 2015 or 2016 is the year

If Jon is dead - whioh i doubt - he has just pissed on a lot of fans with the red herring of L being his mother

If he comes back back inside Ghost i'm gonna chuck the series, I watched Lassie as a kid that was enough for me

On the positive side. Lord Manderley is the man. Theon chapters were great and the Sandsnakes have SO much potential at pure awesomness :)

Bran's Tree adventures has me a bit sad, but was a great read

But for me the series has lost the greatness of the 1st 3 books. Shame, but i have enjoyed more other books recently,

such as Joe Abercrombie and Patrick Rothfuss.

AFFC & ADWD have been pretty average for me, there is no way this would be 2 seasons of TV.

My feeling is if Game of Thrones continues the high ratings we will see the ending of this series on TV, not in a book

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I'm usually a Tyrion and Dany fan but there chapters were just plain boring.

Jon was OK. The ending with Marsh's Salty Tears, the Smoking Wound and The Red Star knight getting ripped to shreds suggest

Jon is AA reborn. What has made this worse is GRRM has stated he wont start Book six until next year, which means 2014 is most likely

the year the next comes out. But given his history maybe 2015 or 2016 is the year

If Jon is dead - whioh i doubt - he has just pissed on a lot of fans with the red herring of L being his mother

If he comes back back inside Ghost i'm gonna chuck the series, I watched Lassie as a kid that was enough for me

On the positive side. Lord Manderley is the man. Theon chapters were great and the Sandsnakes have SO much potential at pure awesomness :)

Bran's Tree adventures has me a bit sad, but was a great read

But for me the series has lost the greatness of the 1st 3 books. Shame, but i have enjoyed more other books recently,

such as Joe Abercrombie and Patrick Rothfuss.

AFFC & ADWD have been pretty average for me, there is no way this would be 2 seasons of TV.

My feeling is if Game of Thrones continues the high ratings we will see the ending of this series on TV, not in a book

 

Agree with a lot of that there.

 

That Quentyn guy was only introduced to open a door.

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Sadly I'll probably be in my 40's when this series is finished. With that in mind, I think I'll drink heavily now.

 

I wonder where Martin draws the line on what he doesn't put in this story after reading Reek's chapters. (It rhymes with Eek).

Also, cliffhangers everywhere. We're going to read the 6th book you know. You know that, right? We're not going to not read it. Can we get a tiny bit of resolution?

One of my favorite parts of the book was when Connington's group took back his castle. It's like all the knights that knew fighting were killed already, exiled recently or left the seven kingdoms way back then.

Oh, and go Manderly. Unfortunately when we find out something even the least bit uplifting, it will invariably come crashing to ruin within 100 pages. I get nervous whenever I hear anything hopeful or even non-threatening. :unsure:

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Right, and he ate six of the bloody pies himself!

 

:laugh: i know right!! i actually just finished this part in my read.

 

 

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow"...rad.

 

*snickers* sounds like her fires just aren't getting good reception if all she see's is snow *snorts at her own joke*

 

 

anyways, i was half hoping that Boltons wedding would turn into another Red Wedding via this Manderly fellow ... but i was sadly disappointed. and honestly, i never thought i'd find myself piting Theon, but i am. i actually have a bit a sympathy for what this character has become and how broken he is. i can already see how this story line is goign to play out, given the talk of the previous ironborn king declaring the kingsmoot invalid becasue all the previous rulers kin wasn't in attendance. Asha see's this opportunity and knows her brother is alive and i was right there with her on the same conclusion. i'm figuring Roose Bolton has figured the same thing given his talk of putting theon over the iron islands.

 

 

speaking of Asha, i know she isn't dead yet even though while reading her chapter the ending made it seem she was, i actually tear up and put down the book cause i thought Martin had offd her; same with the Imp when he was dragged into the river. granted, had he killed off the imp, i woudl have put down the book for a while because he is my fav character and that was just a crappy way to die. i know, characters aren't safe in this series, but common, you can't kill the imp!!!! even on the tv serires he's everyones fav character :laugh:

 

 

 

was anyone totally taken aback by the left field curve ball Martin has thrown us by having Rhegars son alive?? with one fail swoop we learn the identity of one of the Dragon riders (i mean theres no question that he'll take a dragon if he lives) and we learn where the spiders alliance has laid the entire time!! purely OMGWTF moment i've come to expect from this series :happy: i'm surprised no one has remarked on that yet lol

 

 

 

so far, i find Dany's line the hardest to get into, it's very droll but i understand it needs to be done. hopefully since all the characters are caught up after this book, the story will pick back up and get over this slump. i can't say i like that Martin is puttin off writing for a year, but given that this book took 6 years to do waiting 2 for a new ASoF&I isn't a bad deal. i'm expecting 2 to turn into 3, and 3 to turn into 4, ect though so i'm not gonna hold my breath for tis tentative start date :laugh:

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Dances with Dragons was more disappointing than my sex life. To think we waited five (six?) years for this.

 

Jon is dead. No one gets stabbed four times and live. Not without some miracle or drugs. They were going to kill him. There's no one to stop plus he gets stabbed more than four times but stops feeling after the third. There's no way-zero chance-not even a remote possibility-he is not dead.

But Jon's storyline is not done so it doesn't matter. He'll be back as Coldhands 2: Cold Feet. It's just a contrivance-like most of this book-to free him from his oaths to the Night's Watch without him being an oath-breaker. He is one of the favorite characters in the series and good writers know that to maintain that, you can't have your character be a liar or dishonest. It goes against his character. He's Eddard's son. He's dead. I don't need eight other POV describing his mutilated body for me to know that.

 

No doubt when the Winds of Winter comes out (which is never) Jon-Hands-Ghost-Crow will team up with Bran to take back Winterfell from the Boltons. Which will be satisfying because Ramsay Bolton is one of the few characters that works in this book. He's active-as opposed to passive Dany.

 

I probably won't read the next book anyway. Will there be one? I doubt it. GRRM doesn't like writing anymore. He said so in an interview. He likes to "have written." Which really means that he likes the attention, the HBO series interviewing him, the money. What he doesn't care for is his characters, or his world, or his editor. Where was the editor on this one? He needs someone trimming all the fat from this tome. He needs someone to tell him that repeating You know nothing, Jon Snow, in every chapter, over and over again is redundant and irritating. Where was his editor when he dropped the Aegon bomb? Where was his editor when after 900 pages there was little or no plot advancement? I would bet that GRRM fired his good editor after SOS and picked up some suck-up, sycophant who offers him endless praise for his work and never dares question the poor decisions of good'ole George. Like Star Wars this series is only good if you watch the first three. And just like Star Wars, at best, the later stories are mediocre. At least Star Wars is short. This tome is long and big enough to fight off burglars. I gained two pounds of muscle mass from reading it. My dad still thinks I'm a scrawny disappointment though. But at least I got something out of it.

 

Aegon isn't dead. WHO SAW THAT COMING!? I know I didn't. My dad didn't. I don't think GRRM saw it coming up until HBO handed him a check saying, "Add some young noble heartthrob for the girls to enjoy." Aegon is the biggest contrivance in this novel. There has been no hint, no allusion, no mention of even a small possibility that he had escaped. It comes out of nowhere. Not only that but he's the perfect boy, the gold child, the people's champion. Forget Dany as the last of the dragons. Who needs her when she can't get out of Meereen? We've got Aegon springing from the clouds to defend all justice and nobility. What was he thinking?

 

Tyrion is moving. He's going somewhere and he's drunk a lot. He does have a few moments of good character introspection when he thinks about his father, but his voyage is so dull and boring, with too much happenstance and luck. I wanted the payoff. We had a novel of buildup with Crows. I wanted POV characters to meet. Would they get along? Would Tyrion ride a dragon? Nothing. None of it. Instead it's a travelogue down the river, a Barrels out of Bonds (from the Hobbit) ripoff, and then an up close and personal look at the life of a freak-show slave. Like all the rest of the characters, he does nothing. He stands around and complains. I did enjoy Penny though. One thing GRRM still does right is draw huge amounts of sympathy from people by placing vulnerable, weak (physically) characters into a hellish, cruel world. I care for Penny and her well being.

 

I do not care for Daenarys. She is passive. She sits on her throne and does nothing, waiting for others to act so she can respond. Her arc in this novel is terrible. There is no transition. There is no impetus for her change. She goes from being the mother of all, trying to save everyone and everything, to being all about her dragon babies, not caring about the potential battle that is waging in the city she has taken. GRRM didn't even bother to add a contrivance in the huge shift in her character in the last chapter. She just changed in a large way while the writer wasn't looking. Not only that but her parts in the novel are dull, drudgery to read through, mainly because I have no sympathy for her. I do not care what happens to her.

 

I do not care what happens in Meereen. The center of the SoIF has been Westeros. But now, the focus is all across the ocean, or on the ocean. Most of the "story" takes place outside of Westeros. The center of the story is the Iron Throne. We've all been lead to believe that this story was based on the War of the Roses, not what happened on the other side of the world during that time. The Iron Throne is the turning point and Westeros is the stage. So much history, so many characters that we've loved and hated, have all sat on the Iron Throne, have all come from westeros. Not a single character that we've known has come from Meereen. The author fails in the setting of this novel. He has a world that people have emotional ties to but he decided not to explore. It's a huge reason why this "story" has no plot. The plot is the Iron Throne and the game of houses. It is not traveling down the river staring at turtles. It is not riding a barrel to escape danger. It is not learning how to be a good queen by saying your a silly little girl.

 

Cersei has some of the best parts because something actually happens. A change of power takes place centering around the Iron Throne. She actually changes as a person and the reader can clearly see why. She is shamed. She loses power but in the end all she cares about is her son. People can understand that. They can relate to a mother caring about her son. Then Ser Gregor appears. My dad loves Fraken-Gregor but my dad's a moron. Here's why.

 

NO ONE STAYS DEAD! Whenever I kill something, I want it to stay dead. I killed it for a reason and that reason was not to see it come back more badass. If you don't realize, Ser Robert Strong is actually the reanimated corpses of Ser Gregor. Qyburn-the new master of whispers-did some tomfoolery with this dead body and now he's back to life. Nothing stays dead.

 

Jon Snow is dead. But he's coming back. Probably more badass than before. Catelyn Stark died but is back as Lady Stoneheart. Aegon Targaryen died, at least in my mind and in the mind's of many other characters in the story. But he's back too and even more badass than when he was a baby. I fully expect Jon Snow to return as a wargling weilding a valyrian blade but this time with the body of Wun Wun and the looks of Jaime Lannister. My dad will love it! In the last chapter, when Dany thought she saw Khal Drogo returning, I honestly believed he would appear from nowhere.

 

It would be sweet if he was riding on a motorcyle shooting flames out of it and threw Dany on the back and they rode off to save Meereen together. Alright my dad's gone. He made me put that last line in. Sometimes he hurts me. He's a big smelly drunk who loves him some motorcycles. I'm just thrilled Khal Drogo and Eddard stayed dead but who knows for how long that will last. Death doesn't last forever anymore.

 

There's more I can say but I won't. Maybe later.

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was anyone totally taken aback by the left field curve ball Martin has thrown us by having Rhegars son alive?? with one fail swoop we learn the identity of one of the Dragon riders (i mean theres no question that he'll take a dragon if he lives) and we learn where the spiders alliance has laid the entire time!! purely OMGWTF moment i've come to expect from this series :happy: i'm surprised no one has remarked on that yet lol
Can't say I was surprised about Aegon being alive - people have been suspecting that for years. There's been speculation about both Aegon being alive and a pretend Aegon being alive (Dany's vision of a mummer's dragon in the House of the Undying is often taken as an indication that the person it's about isn't a real Dragon - a false Targaryen) - that said, Varys's words to Kevan in the epilogue indicate that he at least believes him to be real (precious little point lying to a dying man), so either he's real or someone's pulled the wool over the Spider's eyes. As for there being no question that Aegon will take a Dragon if he lives, you do remember what series you're reading don't you? Because that's a pretty big if.

 

Jon is dead. No one gets stabbed four times and live.
Actually, that's not true. It's entirely possible to suffer four or more stab wounds without dying.
It's just a contrivance-like most of this book-to free him from his oaths to the Night's Watch without him being an oath-breaker. He is one of the favorite characters in the series and good writers know that to maintain that, you can't have your character be a liar or dishonest.
Because fan favourite character Tyrion is known for his utter honesty at all times. As is Arya. Sansa is far to honest to go around pretending to be someone she's not. Eddard would never lie. If Martin wants Jon Snow to break his vows, he'll just have Jon break his vows. Hell, he had Jaime Lannister break his vows, sleep with his sister, throw Bran out a window in an attempt to kill him, and still go on to become a popular character. You really think Jon breaking his vows would seriously hurt his popularity? You really think that would stop Martin from doing it anyway, if he felt that was best for the story?

 

I probably won't read the next book anyway. Will there be one? I doubt it. GRRM doesn't like writing anymore. He said so in an interview. He likes to "have written." Which really means that he likes the attention, the HBO series interviewing him, the money.
No, it really means writing is hard work. He likes having done something, not the actual doing of it.

 

Aegon isn't dead. WHO SAW THAT COMING!?
Everyone whos ever lurked or been a member of Westeros and spent time reading the masses of speculation that Aegon was alive. It's a theory that's been around years, probably before Martin ever signed anything with HBO.
I know I didn't. My dad didn't. I don't think GRRM saw it coming up until HBO handed him a check saying, "Add some young noble heartthrob for the girls to enjoy."
Yes, HBO very much desire a young heartthrob noble to be added to a part of the story they won't reach for several years. If they wanted a young heartthrob noble (because they series to this point had been completely lacking in them save for Beric Dondarrion, Jaime Lannister, Loras Tyrell, Garlan Tyrell, Jon Snow, Renly Baratheon and anyone else that I might have forgotten) they coul just cast a young heartthrob in an existing role. Or make their own new role. Telling Martin to stick new characters in the book when book and series already have differences makes no sense. At all.

 

NO ONE STAYS DEAD!
Many characters have died. The Lightning Lord and Lady Stoneheart have come back from the dead, now the Mountain, and it's possible Coldhands is Benjen Stark. They are vastly outnumbered by those who have stayed dead. By the way, I strongly suggest never reading Malazan Book of the Fallen. Further, all the cases of reanimation show something being lost. Beric was less each time he came back. Stoneheart is a zombie. As is Coldhands, no matter who he started out as. As for Robert Strong, how much of Gregor survives in him?

 

But he's back too and even more badass than when he was a baby.
An impressive achievement, that. More badass than a baby.

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Was anyone else disappointed that we didn't have Tyrion meet Dany? I was looking forward to that throughout the whole book.

 

Also I thought Aegon might have been alive because there needs to be 2 more Targs. But I wish he'd been a character we'd already seen in the background not someone completely new.

 

I agree with others the I doubt Jon is dead or if he is that he'll be staying that way for long. I would not be surprised if it was Melisandre who resurrected him.

 

I agree with what has been said about Dany too. She is one of my favourite characters but she really seemed dumb in this book. After all her cunning and intelligence in book 3 it seems like she'd been hit on the head or the slavers secretly sucked out her brain while she was asleep.

 

I have to say despite having all my favourite characters (Tyrion, Dany, Arya, Jaime, Davos) in this book I find myself liking Feast better.

Edited by SingleMort

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though i haven't finished the series, Mort gives a good poitn about the red Lady resurrecting Jon; we know that preists from that faith have resurrected people before. plus theres the fact that Johns a Warg and has 9 deaths before his final "true" death according to skinchanger in the Prolouge.

 

if anything, Jon's body may die, but we will see him return as ghost in the very least; or even Mormounts Crow, though ghost is more likely given the evidence presented in the prolouge.

 

i also think it's equally as likely that he returns as something similar to Coldhands, as i still hold faith that Benjen is Coldhands and it's his stark blood that allowed him to keep his mind even though he's an Other. so unless John is stabbed with Dragon glass, i see this as being a very good possability; though this option pretty much shoots his chances of being a dragon rider.

 

 

as for just having Jon break his vows, it goes against Jons character. tbh, i'd rather Jon die than break his vows and have to deal with him whinying about it with every POV we have from him from now on :laugh:

 

 

as for it being a big if, if the Aeon survives ... unless it furthers the plot, i don't see GRRM taking the time and energy to introduce a new main character just to off him. its the entire reason i didn't believe Danny nor the Onion night were dead; though Martin has yet to invest the time he had in Darvos or Bernie before seeming to kill them off as well.

 

 

 

another thing is that Martin hints that the Mountain may not be dead early on in DwD. when the skull is recieved in Dorne the prince makes a jape about "well he very well might not have died, i dont like that we didn't witness his death" and we never truely saw the mountain die ... though i wish that he had stayed dead given the type of character he was. i was rather pleased with the type of death he got as well.

 

 

 

 

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I've finished after a pretty careful read-through. It's good. I enjoyed it thoroughly. I'd consider it stronger than both Clash and Feast but weaker than Storm and probably Game. It's biggest weakness lies in the 100-200 pages GRRM had to cut out and push into Winds.

 

I actually kinda think Stannis might be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the series. This book really makes me a fan of Stannis, in a way I never expected to be. In fact I'm kinda torn. I told myself, going into this, that if Aegon is alive I'd hate it. But GRRM makes me like it.

 

Aegon seems like he'd make a pretty decent king, too. I could totally see Stannis or Aegon ruling the realm at the end of the series, with Dany dead and Jon manning the Wall the rest of his life. Though I don't think the Iron Throne will necessarily exist when all is said and done.

 

And Dany still isn't that fun to read for me, though her final chapter is excellent. Looks like we got some serious blood and fire happening in Winds, I expect it to be every bit as good as Storm.

Edited by Elend

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okay so that had to be the BEST scene in the ENTIRE sereis so far!!!

 

 

i'm talking about Danny finally riding Drogon. OMG i absolutley LOVED it!! i hop she roasts her "husband" alive slowly too, giving the order to kill Drogon *glares at Danny's husband*

 

 

i could almost feel the heat from Drogon's roar on my face as i read that part. i mean he is my fav dragon after all and i knew since GoT's that he woudl be the one Danny would ride; but for a while there i was kinda concerned. the cream colored Dragon, i thought for a minute that maybe Danny would ride him instead once Drogon flew off and seeing how much of a mamma's boy Visery's is. but i'm glad my first impression was right. i mean it makes since, given Drogon's name sake :laugh:

 

 

 

oh i can't wait until Danny returns to Mereen and gives the Harpy Brothers and all those slavers a good roasting!!!

 

 

 

btw, i'm still picking Jon as the 3rd Dragon Rider. my prediction is this

 

Aegon takes over Westeros, and rides Rhegar. Dany stays on the other side of the Narrow sea with Drogon. and Jon takes the last Dragon up abovet the Wall. also, how cool would it be to jump into the skin of a Dragon!!!

 

do you guys think Danny will becom a Warg since she's riding Drogon now??

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oh and Arya is gonna be a total BA now that she has her eyes back!! i had to laugh at how she knew who was hitting her and how she was like "he can have his secrets and i can have mine"

 

 

i can't wiat until she becomes Danny's assasin!!! gonna be ttoally epic, especially if Danny gets the Imp in her ranks as a tactical advisor for playing Das'Demar!!!

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If Dany is a warg and dragon warging is possible, I'm pretty sure she's screwed if she comes into conflict with the North, as Bran being stronger is basically a certainty since she hasn't manifested this power at all yet. So I doubt she is and I somehow think dragon warging isn't possible or at least is extremely difficult.

 

I'd actually love a scene where she tries to destroy a Stark and Drogon outright turns on her. Considering her view on Starks such a thing may be a necessity, to get her to work with them. Though, like I say above, I'm pretty sure that for some reason dragon warging can't really be done.

 

I don't see Aegon riding a dragon unless GRRM completely scraps Dany being a ruling Queen (which I'd welcome). Aegon, assuming it's really him, is the rightful Targaryen heir as opposed to Dany. He's the first-born son of Rhaegar and that comes before Dany's claim.

Edited by Elend

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given Dany's reluctance to leave her "children" i could see her giving up the rule of Westeros to a family member and keeping to the slaving citys across the narrow sea honstly.

 

i'm not done with the book so my opinion on this might change, but given how much Dany has said that "i must put Weseros to the side right now" or "i might never make it to westeros" i can see this as being foreshadowing on Martins part.

 

 

the only thing that throws me, is how obvious it is for foreshadowing, and from memory Martin has generally been very subtle in how he foreshadows events

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In repsonse to Elend. Technically in the line of succession I would have thought Dany would come fist. Yes Aegon is Rhaegar's. But he was killed before he ever became king. Surely with Dany being his sister and the king's daughter she would have the closest tie to the throne. But I suppose she is a girl and everyone knows you can't rule Westeros if you have breasts.

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oh and Arya is gonna be a total BA now that she has her eyes back!! i had to laugh at how she knew who was hitting her and how she was like "he can have his secrets and i can have mine"

 

 

i can't wiat until she becomes Danny's assasin!!! gonna be ttoally epic, especially if Danny gets the Imp in her ranks as a tactical advisor for playing Das'Demar!!!

 

BA is one way to look at it. Another is that she is close to borderline psychopat, suffering from severe PTSD. In many ways, she is the most tragic character of all in the books.

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Mort you can thank Cersi for the bad rap female rulers get in Westeros honestly. andeven though she appears to be growing out of the sullen, sulky little ... what i mean is, that even though she seems to be growing as a character i still can't seem to make myself like her one bit. i've only read the one PoV, but really every time i get to a PoV of hers i always hope it will have her death in it lol

 

 

Elend, maybe i used the wrong word when i said Warg. i'm thinking more of a "fondness" or "bonding" between rider and Dragon. kinda like what was expressed in teh movie Avatar between the blue people and their flying beasts. it seems something similar, with all the talk of a rider only riding one Dragon and no one riding said Dragon even once the rider is long dead.

 

 

the only thing i can think to describe it as is what is used in the Inheratance Trilogy, where the Dragon Rider is able to see through the Dragons eyes; only in this case i'm thinking more on terms of a Warg where the Dragon rider would slip into the Dragons skin and control the Dragon from afar.

 

the main reason i think this has a good chance of happening is because of how hard the Dragons are to control and the bond that appears to be formed between rider and dragon.

 

 

what do you guys think about this? or am i just talking about something that's already hinted at and i haven't read it yet :laugh:

 

 

 

i would also like to see a Warg try to snatch Drogon away from Danny and knock her ego down a notch as well Elend. it will atleast be intersting to see one try and see the effects. i'd imagine it woudl be alot liek trying to take the skin of another human, a fight for dominance only with losing the battle it might leave the Warg insane. maybe having their mind burnt from teh sheer force of will of the Dragon.

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In repsonse to Elend. Technically in the line of succession I would have thought Dany would come fist. Yes Aegon is Rhaegar's. But he was killed before he ever became king. Surely with Dany being his sister and the king's daughter she would have the closest tie to the throne. But I suppose she is a girl and everyone knows you can't rule Westeros if you have breasts.

 

No. Male heirs come before female. So when Aerys died, the crown passed to Rhaegar first, then his male children. Then Viserys and any children he might have. Dany succeeds last, only after all her brothers (including younger if she'd had any) and their male heirs succeed. Aegon's claim is stronger than hers. Primogeniture always favors male heirs over female.

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Also I thought Aegon might have been alive because there needs to be 2 more Targs.
Actually, there don't. Martin confirmed that people other than Targaryen's can be Dragonriders.

 

i also think it's equally as likely that he returns as something similar to Coldhands, as i still hold faith that Benjen is Coldhands and it's his stark blood that allowed him to keep his mind even though he's an Other.
I think Benjen as Coldhands is pretty likely, but the idea of his Stark blood being the reason he's not like the other Wights? Can't say I'm a big fan of that notion.

 

as for just having Jon break his vows, it goes against Jons character.
Actually, I'd say breaking his vows is in character for Jon. After all, he was going to do it in GoT before his friends brought him back. Then in CoK he joined the Wildlings, and his time with Ygritte is bending the rules even if not outright breaking them (and fine, he was acting under orders). Last we saw of him before his stabbing, he was going to break his vows to attack Ramsay.

 

as for it being a big if, if the Aeon survives ... unless it furthers the plot, i don't see GRRM taking the time and energy to introduce a new main character just to off him.
True, he wouldn't do it just for the hell of it, but there's still a fair chance of him biting the bullet.

 

 

Technically in the line of succession I would have thought Dany would come first. Yes Aegon is Rhaegar's. But he was killed before he ever became king. Surely with Dany being his sister and the king's daughter she would have the closest tie to the throne. But I suppose she is a girl and everyone knows you can't rule Westeros if you have breasts.
According to Martin, after the Dance of Dragons (the historical civil war between rival Targaryen factions for the Iron Throne the ended with Aegon III the Dragonbane on the Throne) they changed the law so that women come after all men in the line of succession. Even leaving this aside, Rhaegar's line would come before any of his siblings and their lines. That said, it is completely ridiculous to say that you can't rule Westeros if you have breats - look at Aegon the Unworthy.

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If Dany is a warg and dragon warging is possible, I'm pretty sure she's screwed if she comes into conflict with the North, as Bran being stronger is basically a certainty since she hasn't manifested this power at all yet. So I doubt she is and I somehow think dragon warging isn't possible or at least is extremely difficult.

 

I'd actually love a scene where she tries to destroy a Stark and Drogon outright turns on her. Considering her view on Starks such a thing may be a necessity, to get her to work with them. Though, like I say above, I'm pretty sure that for some reason dragon warging can't really be done.

 

I don't see Aegon riding a dragon unless GRRM completely scraps Dany being a ruling Queen (which I'd welcome). Aegon, assuming it's really him, is the rightful Targaryen heir as opposed to Dany. He's the first-born son of Rhaegar and that comes before Dany's claim.

 

They'll marry

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According to Martin, after the Dance of Dragons (the historical civil war between rival Targaryen factions for the Iron Throne the ended with Aegon III the Dragonbane on the Throne) they changed the law so that women come after all men in the line of succession. Even leaving this aside, Rhaegar's line would come before any of his siblings and their lines. That said, it is completely ridiculous to say that you can't rule Westeros if you have breats - look at Aegon the Unworthy.

 

However, Dany has dragons, and dragons cares not for the laws of puny humansbiggrin.gif

 

That said, I am not fully convinced it is the real Aegon. When even the Holy Ned Stark produced a bastard, it is quite possible there are a few Targ bastards running around, one of them suitably aged for a master schemer to snatch up and use for their own purpose.

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I am not fully convinced it is the real Aegon. When even the Holy Ned Stark produced a bastard, it is quite possible there are a few Targ bastards running around, one of them suitably aged for a master schemer to snatch up and use for their own purpose.

 

We still don't know who Jon's parents were. The one reference in aDWD to possible infidelity by Ned Stark was with Ashara Dayne, and her stillborn daughter. That would be so very Ned - feel guilty about an affair you had, but the child you raise and claim as your bastard isn't actually yours.

 

I also noticed more hints about possible infidelity on the part of Aerys and Tywin Lannister's wife. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Tywin's kids are actually Rhaegar's half-siblings? Stannis and Renly rebel because Robert's kids are not actually his, with no claim to the throne, but it turns out Joffrey had more of a claim to the throne than Robert the usurper, because Aerys was his grandfather.

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I am not fully convinced it is the real Aegon. When even the Holy Ned Stark produced a bastard, it is quite possible there are a few Targ bastards running around, one of them suitably aged for a master schemer to snatch up and use for their own purpose.

 

We still don't know who Jon's parents were. The one reference in aDWD to possible infidelity by Ned Stark was with Ashara Dayne, and her stillborn daughter. That would be so very Ned - feel guilty about an affair you had, but the child you raise and claim as your bastard isn't actually yours.

 

I also noticed more hints about possible infidelity on the part of Aerys and Tywin Lannister's wife. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Tywin's kids are actually Rhaegar's half-siblings? Stannis and Renly rebel because Robert's kids are not actually his, with no claim to the throne, but it turns out Joffrey had more of a claim to the throne than Robert the usurper, because Aerys was his grandfather.

In that case, Joff would be a bastard born of a pair of bastards (although he's that anyway, leaving aside questions of legitimacy). That gives him precisly no claim to anything.

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Yeah I kinda hope Dany doesn't marry Aegon. In fact I'd rather Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Stannis, Jaime, Sansa, Arya and most of the other main characters were king instead of him. He just feels like a johnny-come-lately.

 

There are all these characters that we've gone through so much with, that I'd be pretty annoyed if the throne went to some guy who doesn't show up until two thrids through the series and who's not even seen very much in this book.

 

I mean do people really want to see him king over all their favourite characters that they've known for years?

Edited by SingleMort

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