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[Spoiler Thread] GRRM's Dance with Dragons


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please keep all discussions relating to the book "Dance with Dragons" in this thread. you don't have to use the spoiler tag in this thread either; so all of you veiwng this thread have been warned.

 

if you don't want to be spoiled, keep out of this thread.

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Keep in mind I've not read the book and only read spoilers. I'm just giving a brief overview here of what I've read- they may even be fake, but a lot of people confirm this all over the place.

 

Well, so long as it's up...

 

 

So, according to the spoilers I've found, Jon dies in aDwD. He gets stabbed by four of his black brothers due to the direction he's taking the Watch- apparently, it's all very Caesar.

 

Bran gets crazy powers involving seeing through the weirdwoods- in fact, his abilities may be a key in saving Jon via the warg aspects we're introduced to in the prologue. He apparently has either a falling out with the Reeds, or they die. Bran also uses Hodor in the same way he uses Summer. Something to warg into.

 

Bran 'saves' Theon, in the sense that he talks to him through the heart-tree in Winterfell and this gets rid of his insanity (apparently Bran gets a massive power-up from the 3EC- who is Bloodraven, BTW, a Targaryen bastard from around 125 years past). Theon gets the fake-Arya away from the Boltons (fake Arya is Jeyne Poole from the first book) and meets up with his sister, and I think they're heading for the Wall.

 

Dany does Dany stuff, ending with her riding Drogon (I don't like Dany that much so didn't pay much attention to her spoilers).

 

Kevan Lannister is killed by Varys, along with Archmaester Pycelle. He's got Aegon Targaryen, and Aegon's invasion of Westeros begins with the taking of the Stormlands. Basically, Varys has been playing the deepest game of them all, perhaps even deeper than Littlefinger.

 

As speculated, Davos is still alive and sent off to get Rickon Stark by old fat Manderly. A lot, perhaps even most, of the North is outright refusing to bow to the Boltons and Stannis actually launches a direct assault on Ramsay Bolton in Winterfell. We have word that Ramsay kills Stannis. Keep in mind Ramsay likes the fake out- he's the one that got Theon to claim Bran and Rickon were killed and faked bodies. I'm not buying a dead Stannis personally, but I've not read the book.

 

And now to everyone's favorite character- Arya! She apparently begins Faceless Man training in earnest and by the end of the book can change her face. The blindness was another stage of training and her warging abilities were unexpected by the House of Black and White- they apparently served to accelerate the blindness stage.

 

 

Edited by Elend
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*nudges Elend* hehehe don't have to use the spoiler tag in this thread dude :happy:

 

 

 

as to what you posted ... hmmm i'd like Stannis dead, but thats cause i don't like him. and i can see Jon getting assassinated like that, with him turning a bit cold like he has and alienating any friends he had.

 

 

it's about time Rickon comes back into the story line, but i totally missed out on Theon being mad. last i remember of him is that he was flayed alive by the Boltons ..... i'm surprised to see who their passing off as Ayra, i thought poole was killed in GoT's!!!

 

 

i'm ultra excited to see more of Varys!!! i like his character and would love to finally find out what side he's on for sure.

 

 

even if half of those rumors are true, then it's going to be an interesting and fast paced book!!

 

 

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These are the chapters and PoVs I've been able to find:

 

1. Prologue (Varamyr Sixskins 1)

2. Tyrion 1

3. Daenerys 1

4. Jon 1

5. Bran 1

6. Tyrion 2

7. The Merchant's Man 1 (Quentyn Martell 1)

8. Jon 2

9. Tyrion 3

10. Davos 1

11. Jon 3

12. Daenerys 2

13. Reek 1 (Theon Greyjoy 1)

14. Bran 2

15. Tyrion 4

16. Davos 2

17. Daenerys 3

18. Jon 4

19. Tyrion 5

20. Davos 3

21. Reek 2 (Theon Greyjoy 2)

22. Jon 5

23. Tyrion 6

24. Daenerys 4

25. The Lost Lord (Lord Jon Connington 1)

26. The Windblown (Quentyn Martell 2)

27. The Wayward Bride (Asha Greyjoy 1)

28. Tyrion 7

29. Jon 6

30. Davos 4

31. Daenerys 5

32. Melisandre

33. Reek 3 (Theon Greyjoy 3)

34. Tyrion 8

35. Bran 3

36. Jon 7

37. Daenerys 6

38. The Prince of Winterfell (Theon Greyjoy 4)

39. The Watcher (Areo Hotah)

40. Jon 8

41. Tyrion 9

42. The Turncloak (Theon Greyjoy 5)

43. The King's Prize (Asha Greyjoy 2)

44. Daenerys 7

45. Jon 9

46. The Blind Girl (Arya 1)

47. A Ghost In Winterfell (Theon Greyjoy 6)

48. Tyrion 10

49. Jaime

50. Jon 10

51. Daenerys 8

52. Theon 7

53. Daenerys 9

54. Jon 11

55. Cersei 1

56. The Queensguard (Barristan Selmy 1)

57. The Iron Suitor (Victarion Greyjoy 1)

58. Tyrion 11

59. Jon 12

60. The Discarded Knight (Barristan Selmy 2)

61. The Spurned Suitor(Quentyn Martell 3)

62. The Griffin Reborn (Lord Jon Connington 2)

63. The Sacrifice (Asha Greyjoy 3)

64. Victarion 2

65. The Ugly Little Girl (Arya 2)

66. Cersei 2

67. Tyrion 12

68. The Kingbreaker (Barristan Selmy 3)

69. The Dragontamer (Quentyn Martell 4)

70. Jon 13

71. The Queen's Hand (Barristan Selmy 4)

72. Daenerys 10

73. Epilogue (Kevan Lannister 1)

 

Varamyr Sixskins 1

Tyrion Lannister 12

Daenerys Targaryen 10

Jon Snow 13

Bran Stark 3

Quentyn Martell 4

Davos Seaworth 4

Theon Greyjoy 7

Lord Jon Connington 2

Asha Greyjoy 3

Melisandre 1

Areo Hotah 1

Arya Stark 2

Jamie Lannister 1

Cersei Lannister 2

Barristan Selmy 4

Victorian Greyjoy 2

Kevan Lannister 1

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So, according to the spoilers I've found, Jon dies in aDwD. He gets stabbed by four of his black brothers due to the direction he's taking the Watch- apparently, it's all very Caesar.

 

He's stabbed and passes out. Whether he dies or not is left ambiguous. I'm going with no, due to many other things throughout the book that suggest not.

 

Bran gets crazy powers involving seeing through the weirdwoods- in fact, his abilities may be a key in saving Jon via the warg aspects we're introduced to in the prologue.

 

Yes to the weirwoods, no to saving Jon. The heart tree for the Watch is several miles north of the Wall in the haunted forest, too far away for Bran to play any role there.

 

He apparently has either a falling out with the Reeds, or they die.

 

No, neither at all. Jojen is ill but does not die. Meera is perfectly okay and hanging out at the Three-Eyed Crow's home base (a big cave, basically, warded against Others and wights).

 

Bran also uses Hodor in the same way he uses Summer. Something to warg into.

 

True.

 

Bran 'saves' Theon, in the sense that he talks to him through the heart-tree in Winterfell and this gets rid of his insanity (apparently Bran gets a massive power-up from the 3EC- who is Bloodraven, BTW, a Targaryen bastard from around 125 years past). Theon gets the fake-Arya away from the Boltons (fake Arya is Jeyne Poole from the first book) and meets up with his sister, and I think they're heading for the Wall.

 

Er, kind of. Bran's role in this has been massively exaggerated. He tries to talk through the weirwood in Winterfell but the most he can do is whisper Theon's name. Theon hears this at a psychologically critical moment (he's been suffering Stockholm Syndrome, for want of a better term, after being Ramsay's tortured and abused prisoner for months on end) and it's an contributary factor to his 'recovery', but Bran doesn't magically save him from afar.

 

Dany does Dany stuff, ending with her riding Drogon (I don't like Dany that much so didn't pay much attention to her spoilers).

 

Dany's stuff is the core of the novel. If you don't like her, you're going to find this book hard going. A shame, because Victarion, Tyrion and Barristan's storylines are all excellent, and involve the Daenerys storyline to a great extent.

 

Kevan Lannister is killed by Varys, along with Archmaester Pycelle. He's got Aegon Targaryen, and Aegon's invasion of Westeros begins with the taking of the Stormlands. Basically, Varys has been playing the deepest game of them all, perhaps even deeper than Littlefinger.

 

More or less true. Varys sent Aegon on his way as a youngster and Aegon has spent his life in the Free Cities and the Rhoynar lands. So Varys and Aegon haven't been hanging out plotting all this time, but Varys is being rather poetical. I think he was trying to be kind to Kevan and giving him some kind of explanation because he respected him (he shot Pycelle in the back without a second's hesitation, however).

 

As speculated, Davos is still alive and sent off to get Rickon Stark by old fat Manderly. A lot, perhaps even most, of the North is outright refusing to bow to the Boltons and Stannis actually launches a direct assault on Ramsay Bolton in Winterfell. We have word that Ramsay kills Stannis. Keep in mind Ramsay likes the fake out- he's the one that got Theon to claim Bran and Rickon were killed and faked bodies. I'm not buying a dead Stannis personally, but I've not read the book.

 

It's not likely. In the same letter where Ramsay says Stannis is dead, he also demands Theon and Jeyne back, which is odd because Theon, Jeyne and Asha were last seen in close proximity to Stannis. It's possible they slipped off during the chaos of the battle, but if Stannis died, it's more likely they'd be dead as well.

 

The North is divided. Some have bowed to the Boltons but plot treachery against them (Wyman Manderly is particularly awesome in this book, and MUST be played by Brian Blessed in the TV series), others have sworn for Stannis and a lot are playing the waiting game and seeing who wins between Stannis and Roose Bolton before making a final decision.

 

And now to everyone's favorite character- Arya! She apparently begins Faceless Man training in earnest and by the end of the book can change her face. The blindness was another stage of training and her warging abilities were unexpected by the House of Black and White- they apparently served to accelerate the blindness stage.

 

Mostly true. Her blindness is part of training, but she's punished for killing the Watch deserter in AFFC by having it last much longer than is normal. Arya's story is pretty minor in the novel, actually. She also can't change her face herself, but the other Faceless Men change it for her to send her on a mission.

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Good to know what is true and not true. I never actually expected Jon dead but, having not read the passage, it's good to know that at least some way exists for his survival.

 

And while I don't like Dany, I do like pretty much everyone in her storyline. I'm just not a big fan of the Dany character herself (though I like Emilia Clarke's portrayal, so that may change my opinion).

Edited by Elend
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Wert have you read DwD's yet??

 

 

you know, eading spoilers you'd expect to feel ... well spoiled. but honestly, it's got my mouth watering for the book even more!!!

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I finished the book yesterday. Read it over 4 evenings since I have a full time job. Didn't find it exceptional but it was hard to put the book down and go to sleep which tells how mesmerizing it was. Martin tells a very good story. I always wanted to read just one more chapter.

 

2 people previously believed dead revealed alive. 3 people previously left with ambiguous fate revealed alive.

 

A lot of minor characters killed and three "important".

 

4 major characters left with ambiguous fate.

 

No true resolution in Meereen. Not all characters at location have made contact with each other yet.

I hope Martin will some day give an explanation of his problems with the Meeraneese knot. Perhaps it's not completely unraveled yet.

 

The book contains massive information and history so the community will have a lot to theorize about.

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im sitting here at my desk willing my clock to turn to 2pm so i can run to the book store and buy my copy!! man i can't wait!!!

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Elend i'm right there with you!!! i'm on page 85 right now.

 

one thing i love is how GRRM included a flashback for practically each character in thier first chapter. like with Tyrion, he reflects back on killing Tywin then brings us up to speed on what happend between then and now. it was a good refresher and even though it took up most of each characters chapter i'm glad he included it cause i did need the refersher.

 

 

Jon's chapter confused me though, becuase its taking place before he sent Sam south to the masters academy. when i saw him talk to Sam i was like :blink: then as it explained both babes are still there with Gilly and Aemon was still alive, i was like :laugh: "okay now i understand"

 

 

to put it in prospective, i'm just now getting to Quentyn's first chapter. can't say this character is growing on me either, if anything i'm more looking forward to Drogon making a snack of him and using him as a tooth pick :baalzamon:

 

 

 

 

so right now, points of interst for me are

 

 

- Wargs can die 10 times :blink:

- Ghosts interaction with One Eye aka Lump and how this will affect Jon given the past with these two.

- Danny's dragons.

- Tyrion/Danny meet up

 

 

the dragons right now are what i'm most anxious to get too. i hate that Drogon has killed a child, but at the same tiem i can't stand the thought that Danny would do anything to my fav dragon :unsure: aside from that, OMFG i can't wait for Danny 7 Tyrion to meet up. man Westeros wont know what hits em with this combo!!!!

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Duuuuuuudddeeeeee. Working my with through aDwD, how crazy is the Tyrion chapter on the Shy Maid heading through the Sorrows!!!! So good.

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Maj, i cna really see Ned in Jon. especially when he beheaded Janos and his demeanor through it all. i was like "My osh, Jon is more like Ned than Robb ever tried to be!"

 

 

but heres the thing. just read Davos's first chapter and i'm confused about something. you see, Lord Godric claims Jon's mother was a fishermans daughter, yet i thought i remembered Robert in GoT's saying that she was a serving whench near Harrenhal.

 

and then theres that kid who claims to have used the same Wetnurse as Jon and claimed Jon's mom was a princess or lady or something ......

 

 

 

i'm guessing this gets cleared up in DwD ... but still, i read the part last night and went :huh:

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but heres the thing. just read Davos's first chapter and i'm confused about something. you see, Lord Godric claims Jon's mother was a fishermans daughter, yet i thought i remembered Robert in GoT's saying that she was a serving whench near Harrenhal.

 

 

 

It's called a red herring. There are many possibilities open when it comes to Jons parents, including ones where Jon is not actually the son of Ned, but either Brandon or Lyanna instead. Godrics story however...Not one of those possibilities.

And Roberts story about a serving wench near Harrenhal, that was one of Roberts. He just could not keep track of all his conquestsbiggrin.gif

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I've ordered the book, but wont be able to read it till tomorrow. Have a question that can't wait till then though: Are Brienne, the giant thing Quiborn has been buidling, the faith of Cersei or Sandor mentioned in the story? I know DWD isn't focused on Kingslanding and surroundings, but might it be there is some progression in their arc's?

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I've ordered the book, but wont be able to read it till tomorrow. Have a question that can't wait till then though: Are Brienne, the giant thing Quiborn has been buidling, the faith of Cersei or Sandor mentioned in the story? I know DWD isn't focused on Kingslanding and surroundings, but might it be there is some progression in their arc's?

 

Brienne, Quiborns new toy, Cersei - yes, Sandor - no.

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It's called a red herring. There are many possibilities open when it comes to Jons parents, including ones where Jon is not actually the son of Ned, but either Brandon or Lyanna instead. Godrics story however...Not one of those possibilities.

And Roberts story about a serving wench near Harrenhal, that was one of Roberts. He just could not keep track of all his conquestsbiggrin.gif

 

okay cool. i'm still inclined to think he's Lyanna's son, i'm guessing GRRM still doesn't give a definate answer in this book though huh lmao

 

with the thing off GoT's i coudlnt' remember, i'm goign off memory as my mom has barrowed the book after watching the HBO series :laugh: so i can't look it up atm.

 

 

thanks for answering though Maj :happy:

 

 

 

 

btw, just finished Reek's first chapter. i have to say, i had to put it down when he started talking about having his skin flayed off *shudders* sick.gif

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Well, just finished this book last night, and I have mixed feelings on it. To me, the three characters who have the most chapters, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion, all have the weakest storylines in the book, besides Quentyn "worthless POV" Martell. These chapters read to me like AFFC, to the point where I was starting to groan every time I saw what seemed to me Old Sansa with Dragons.

 

On the other hand, other POVs showed what Matin was in AGOT through ASOS and hopefully could be in the future. Arya, Bran, Davos, Connington, Theon, and Victarion all had absolutely fantastic chapters with character development and a plot that seems to really move forward.

 

The big winner for me in this book is Lord Manderly, who up until now I thought was a weak, ineffectual southerner in northerners clothing, turns out to be completely and totally BADASS.

 

Lord Manderly (to Davos): The North remembers. . .an awesome recipe for 'pork' pie.

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Read about 40 pages the day it came out then lost my appetite. Gonna start back up soon though. I liked the Prologue with Sixskins, but Tyrion's chapter was pretty boring. So far it feels more like AFFC than the first four, which is not a good thing as AFFC was kinda meh up until near the end.

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Major AFFC vibe off it but that has to be expected considering the two books are linked.

Wasn't blown away by the book either. Wasn't the expectations being over blown or anything, only to that for WoT books, the story has just progressed fractionally.

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