Egwene hate thread

[MasterAblar]

nynaeve needed the beatdown. It doesn't matter how good you're at healing or if you are equal to semirhage in the power. You don't follow orders from a superior or try to avoid them, then don't be suprised when the hammer comes down.

nyn never deserved a beatdown, I would legitimately like to know why you think this. nynaeve accepted every order from egwene once she became Amyrlin. In fact when she got tortured in tar by egwene, she had no orders to not say something in front of the WO's.

 

 

when your superior gives you an order to return to the WT you do so immediately.

 

When did Egwene order Nyneave to return to the tower? Nyneave probably purposly hid her whereabouts from Egwene but she never went against a direct order. And therefore all sisters who were unalligned or who followed Rand would be equally entitled to a beat down from Egwene. Which would be preposterous of course. None of them deserve it. Nyneave was simply doing something which she considered far more important: helping Rand, pretty much the most important task in the world. I find it hard to believe that Nyneave deserves a beat down for that. If I was a so called "Egwene hater", I'd probably claim that Egwene, delusional as she is, thinks that she and the tower are the most important things in the world and that therefore from her point of view, Nyneave is gravely insulting her by putting Rand ahead of her. As it is, I think that Egwene just wishes that her childhood mentor and later friend were there to support her more seeing as she really has no one she can rely on without any doubt whatsoever in her current situation (especially considering she doesn't trust Gawyn fully).

 

Basically she was lonely.

[Durinax]

nynaeve needed the beatdown. It doesn't matter how good you're at healing or if you are equal to semirhage in the power. You don't follow orders from a superior or try to avoid them, then don't be suprised when the hammer comes down.

nyn never deserved a beatdown, I would legitimately like to know why you think this. nynaeve accepted every order from egwene once she became Amyrlin. In fact when she got tortured in tar by egwene, she had no orders to not say something in front of the WO's.

 

 

when your superior gives you an order to return to the WT you do so immediately.

yes, and she did

 

Not really, she avoided Eggy and hid her whereabouts for some time in order to not come back.

your speaking of when she is summoned to do the tests? the only thing akin to what you guys are saying that I just saw when I looked was "so soon!" she said aghast

[Himiko]

The whole "becoming Amyrlin" arc annoyed me as well. They want an Amyrlin they can kick once they get accepted back into the tower? The whole reasoning for leaving was that Elaida had disbanded an Ajah and deposed an Amyrlin. Half the Tower left. It seems to me that a more logical course of action would have been to raise a well liked AS to the shawl that most of the Salidar AS, and some of the WT AS could be behind as leader, and hope that, if they were agreeable to the WT, the Hall might depose Elaida as they did Siuan, for the sake of peace. They should have known that the moment they raised ANY Amyrlin they were committing a terrible crime as far as the rest of the Tower were concerned, regardless of how young she was, making their return to the WT that much harder. But once again, this is an issue with the story rather than Egwene.

 

So a more logical course of action would be to raise an Amyrlin who might be acceptable to the Tower, but at the same time any Amyrlin will make their return to the Tower harder. You can't have it both ways.

 

My point is that they make the decision to raise an Amyrlin, not just go back to the WT straight away and beg to be allowed in. This, in the eyes of the WT, will be a criminal act, and will make it that much harder for the WT AS to sympathise with them and allow them back in the tower.

 

However, they make this decision. They don't see Egwene and go "You know what, she'd be a great leader, we should have an Amyrlin just so we can have her as leader!" No. They decide to raise an Amyrlin, and they choose to raise an Accepted with minimal training.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but given that they have chosen to take a step "away" from the tower by raising an Amyrlin, why not choose to raise an Amyrlin whom the WT AS might at least see as a decent choice of leader. One whom, given that they might have issues with the way Elaida deposed Siuan, might see the Salidar AS as a potentially better leader. Whether Egwene turned out to be a good leader or not, none could have foreseen this child leading AS with any degree of competence, the WT would see it as a joke, or for what it is, an attempt to sacrifice Egwene for peace. Without hindsight to know that Egwene would have access to the tower sisters to win them over, how could they possibly have assumed a united WT would be the end result? It just seems daft to me.

 

But again, this is to do with the Hall in Salidar, and perhaps the storytelling, rather than Egwene.

 

Geeeeez Himiko you're such a grey. Make some passionate decisions.

 

Egwene is enjoying herself whats wrong with that? When youre rocking out, kicking ass and everyone is loving you theres nothing wrong with drinking in the moment!

 

Btw i don't hear you whinging about how Nyn accomplishes everything too easily ;) Tsk tsk we cant have double standards now can we?

 

Youre all just jealous because you wish you could kick as much ass as Egwene

 

... Yes. That is why people don't like Egwene. Because we are intensely jealous of her power over a fictional organisation. Yep. I cry myself to sleep at night over it.

 

As far as Nynaeve goes: She is very strong in the Power, and very inventive in her healing weaves. She is criticised in text by Cadsuane for being too specialised. Others in the book have surpassed her in Healing skill. She has, at no point, been told that she has nothing more to learn, in fact many AS, up until her testing in ToM, have treated her as an inferior. She has enough political wherewithal to understand the situation of Egwene being a young woman in a position of power, from her own experience, and Elayne also comments that she might make a good AS advisor, but she at no point shows in depth knowledge of Tower law, history and politics- her knowledge of the Tower as a whole is pretty lacking due to the amount of time she spends there. Nynaeve's strength in the power is obvious, as is her talent for learning weaves quickly, and inventing new ones, but the holes in her knowledge are plain to see throughout the story. Were it the case that Egwene was simply strong in the power, I would have no such complaints to make about her, it is that she is shown as an expert in every field, even ones (such as Warders) that she has no experience in. THAT is why I take issue with Egwene and not Nynaeve. Since you seem interested.

 

As for "She's enjoying her power, what's wrong with that?" I don't think anyone has said "Egwene's having a good time! Kill her!" People have issues with the way she has treated Nynaeve and Gawyn, and the hypocrisy she displays. Other people don't have as much of an issue with it, or have an easier time seeing excuses for her behaviour, that's fine, but I don't think I've ever heard any of them argue "Treating her friends badly gives her happy fun times, so its fine! What's wrong with that??" I think there's probably a good reason for that.

 

@Elan: TFoH passage happened before Egwene was Amyrlin. If you're saying her testing was justified by her avoiding Egwene: Are you suggesting the Amyrlin should have the right to use the test for AS to punish those who have displeased her? Or that this was what Egwene was doing? Hell, I don't like Egwene at all, and even I didn't think that lowly of her :P

[Never]

Geeeeez Himiko you're such a grey. Make some passionate decisions.

 

Egwene is enjoying herself whats wrong with that? When youre rocking out, kicking ass and everyone is loving you theres nothing wrong with drinking in the moment!

 

Btw i don't hear you whinging about how Nyn accomplishes everything too easily ;) Tsk tsk we cant have double standards now can we?

 

Youre all just jealous because you wish you could kick as much ass as Egwene

 

 

There's not one real argument in any of this. Just opinions phrased as a reply.

 

But for the first one, that is stupid. Emotion has nothing to do with argumentation; you might feel passionate about a case, as we all do about Egwene, but emotions stand in the way of reason.

 

For the second one, it's just.. what the hell? Sorry dude, but that's terrible advice on the burdens of leadership. You're basically saying that Egwene should act like the leadership of Enron? It is okay for Egwene to appreciate her current position, but that is secondary. A seat of authority gives you a duty more important than yourself, and never should you try to balance out the position of power and your own personal satisfaction. If you can have enjoyment and still do the right thing, then that's fine. If you can find good feelings in your position, that's fine. But actively changing your course of action as a result of your insatiable lust for power is a clear sign of a tyrant.

 

 

Third, how can you compare Egwene with Nynaeve?

Reads Nynaeve's storyarc again. She's constantly bullied by other sisters; she walks into the story with her stick raised high, motivated purely by actually saving the other Two Rivers people. Then she gets beaten down, by Moiraine, by Lan, by Siuan Sance (although she actually beats the crap out of Siuan, great scene), the White Tower, Moghedien, then later on she gets beaten further in Salidar, even after she's raised Aes Sedai (unlawful as it was), and then she has to deal with Dark Rand. Nynaeve struggles with her block, she struggles with her politics, she struggles with upholding her position. Nynaeve fails in the bargain with the Sea Folk, she fails in her attempt to save Dark Rand (actually making it worse, without Nynaeve no Natrin's Barrow), she fails for a long time with her block, she fails for a long time in her love for Lan (the only reason she's actually able to get him is because of Lanfear). None of the PoV's in which we meet Nynaeve from another persons point of view describe Nynaeve describe her as god damn perfect, because she isn't. That's how you can love her.

 

Let's list up some of Nyn's achievements;

 

1 - The cleansing of Saidin

2 - The healing of stilling

3 - The healing of madness

4 - Defeating Moghedien - twice

5 - The weather

6 - Ensuring Lan's army at Tarwin's Gap

7 - Passing the test to Aes Sedai

 

 

1 - Nynaeve was chosen for her strength in the One Power. Rand did the actual deeds here.

2 - Nynaeve's special talent. It's not weird for a character to be very specialized in one area, and as Himiko says, she's even criticized by Cadsuanne for being so specialized.

3 - This was a little to much imo, but at least it's within an area that Nynaeve is arguably the most qualified person in the world; this is the only area Nynaeve has claim to any such position.

4 - Once through being stronger than Moghedien, once through faking total submission and outwitting the Forsaken. Very brave, very desperate, and very clever.

5 - Similar to point 1.

6 - Again, clever. Just what you would expect Nynaeve to do; she cares much and she loves Lan.

7 - Not only passing the test, but she passes it as Nynaeve. I'm one of those that would have loved for Nynaeve to chastise the Aes Sedai, and then leave the Tower as she didn't need them. But, well, this was a great achievement.

 

 

Now, which one of these would you say to be completely stupid? I can live with it if you say nr 2, but other than that specific point, Nynaeve is not only believable but also lovable. I won't make a list with Egwene, because a lot of people have already gone through the list of completely unrealistic Egwene knowledge and achievements earlier in this very thread. But it seems clear to me, that Nynaeve and Egwene are not in positions to be compared, at all.

 

 

And finally to the forth point, I'm a nineteen year old dude. If I were to be jealous of anyone in the series, it would be Rand. I mean, the dude have three girlfriends who know about each others. How can anything in the series compare with that?

[Mr Ares]

The whole "becoming Amyrlin" arc annoyed me as well. They want an Amyrlin they can kick once they get accepted back into the tower? The whole reasoning for leaving was that Elaida had disbanded an Ajah and deposed an Amyrlin. Half the Tower left. It seems to me that a more logical course of action would have been to raise a well liked AS to the shawl that most of the Salidar AS, and some of the WT AS could be behind as leader, and hope that, if they were agreeable to the WT, the Hall might depose Elaida as they did Siuan, for the sake of peace. They should have known that the moment they raised ANY Amyrlin they were committing a terrible crime as far as the rest of the Tower were concerned, regardless of how young she was, making their return to the WT that much harder. But once again, this is an issue with the story rather than Egwene.

 

So a more logical course of action would be to raise an Amyrlin who might be acceptable to the Tower, but at the same time any Amyrlin will make their return to the Tower harder. You can't have it both ways.

 

My point is that they make the decision to raise an Amyrlin, not just go back to the WT straight away and beg to be allowed in. This, in the eyes of the WT, will be a criminal act, and will make it that much harder for the WT AS to sympathise with them and allow them back in the tower.

 

However, they make this decision. They don't see Egwene and go "You know what, she'd be a great leader, we should have an Amyrlin just so we can have her as leader!" No. They decide to raise an Amyrlin, and they choose to raise an Accepted with minimal training.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but given that they have chosen to take a step "away" from the tower by raising an Amyrlin, why not choose to raise an Amyrlin whom the WT AS might at least see as a decent choice of leader. One whom, given that they might have issues with the way Elaida deposed Siuan, might see the Salidar AS as a potentially better leader. Whether Egwene turned out to be a good leader or not, none could have foreseen this child leading AS with any degree of competence, the WT would see it as a joke, or for what it is, an attempt to sacrifice Egwene for peace. Without hindsight to know that Egwene would have access to the tower sisters to win them over, how could they possibly have assumed a united WT would be the end result? It just seems daft to me.

 

But again, this is to do with the Hall in Salidar, and perhaps the storytelling, rather than Egwene.

Realistically, there was no choice of Amyrlin who would have been enough. True, some sisters might have been more sympathetic to a sister than to some Accepted, but it wouldn't be enough to affect a reconciliation. It also causes problems - there is a deadlock in the Rebel Hall. Romanda and Lelaine both want to be top dog. If they can't have it themselves, they might accept an Amyrlin they can control - Egwene is acceptable to Romanda as she could be Romanda's puppet, and to Lelaine because she can be Lelaine's. That is far less likely to be the case with a popular and well liked sister. In terms of the storytelling, Egwene actually makes more sense than your alternative. She can be seen as a puppet, and a compromise to a deadlocked Hall when they need an Amyrlin to stop the rebellion collapsing around them. The only acceptable solution is, essentially, a political non-entity, and Egwene fits the bill perfectly. I'm sure there are sisters out there as well who would too, but they didn't have Siuan Sanche pulling strings to get them put forward. It's convenient that is was Egwene rather than someone else, but it's not bad storytelling.

 

 

And finally to the forth point, I'm a nineteen year old dude. If I were to be jealous of anyone in the series, it would be Rand. I mean, the dude have three girlfriends who know about each others. How can anything in the series compare with that?

It's not as much fun as you might think - far more trouble than it's worth.

[Never]

Mr Ares, I don't think you appreciate how hot Aviendha is :p

 

 

Other than that, I enjoyed your assessment of the political situation at the time of Egwene's ascent to Amyrlin. I always considered it to be quite the stroke of genius on RJ's part (as per usual); and the convenience of Egwene being the one chosen, you can always say the pattern demanded it. She wouldn't have been raised were it not for Siuan and Leane, but that's the great thing about it; Egwene have at least four different entities trying to control her, and she was the best choice for each of them. Reminds me of an old Lenin-quote that goes somewhat like this; "Give me your child when he's young and he'll be a Bolshevik forever". But they failed, perhaps because four different sources of manipulation could even each other out to a large degree, and because of Egwene's personality.

 

I ramble. Point is that I agree with your post.

[caemlyn-native]

Egwene is just annoying. I feel bad for anyone who knows someone with her personality. That and gaywn. I feel extremely bad for him. He's gonna have to live/marry that lady!?!

[DemandredFO]

If Egwene nearly killed a supposed friend to score brownie points with the AS, then I shudder to think what do to the Suldam. Hopefully, she'll have apeplexi since half of her will want them dead and the other half will see the advantage in training them. I do pity Egeanin though she's a seanchan of no use, and I can't wait to see her dismiss Mat as the greatest captain.

[Kahsm]

Egwene and Nynaeve don't get along in through TDR and such because they are the same freaking person head-strong person, and because of that they fight a lot.

 

Egwene does IN FACT question herself CONSTANTLY through the start of the books, and very often she qualifies her issues with "But I will learn!" or something similar. For example when she makes a fool of herself by her ignorance of Aiel when she meets Avi. She says "Well, I'm not the daughter heir to know these things" So yes, she can recognize her ignorance, and then she says "But I will learn". But lets ignore the fact that through the first bunch of books she is the most driven and humble student ("yes Aes Sedai" where Nyn always 'forgets').

 

Also, so many are like "how did she learn to get so good at channeling?!". But never question Nynaeve because she has an excuse, she can instantly learn every weave by seeing it, because that makes her so much more "realistic" than a girl who actually works hard. And if you're still doubting that her short time as Damane did much (btw she went from Novice to Accepted over that time according to Siuan, but whatever) then consider that after that she is driven to learn more, and harder just because of her "I will not be held captive ever again!" paranoia.

 

She has a very similar dispassionate calm as Moir does. Moir threatens the lives of all 3 boys and Faile if they risk victory over the shadow. Lan suggests he'd kill some servants just because they found out Moir was Aes Sedai in some backwater village, but everyone loves Lan. Logain is responsible for likely thousands of innocent deaths just because he wanted glory for himself, but eveyrone loves Logain.

 

In spite of himself Perrin hunched his shoulders as if she were delivering real blows. “Well, you had

better be glad I opened my mouth this time. Simion knows you’re Aes Sedai. He wants you to Heal his brother

Noam of some sickness. If I hadn’t talked to him, he would never have worked up nerve enough to ask, but he

might have started talking among his friends. “

Lan caught Moiraine’s eye, and for a moment they stared at one another. The Warder had the air about

him of a wolf about to leap. Finally, Moiraine shook her head. “No,” she said.

“As you wish. It is your decision.” Lan sounded as if he thought she had made the wrong one, but the

tension left him.

Perrin stared at them. “You were thinking of . . . . Simion couldn’t tell anyone if he were dead, could

he?”

 

Yet some claim she doesn't care about her friends, though she constantly feels guilty over her single-purposefulness in regards to Mat when they're taking him back to the tower. But she expresses later on the ship that she doesn't "want" to think about things she can do nothing about, which is a good thing. And of course in her Accepted's test:

 

"It would do no good if she broke the white tower to save Rand. She had to save both." - Egwene

 

Not just the white tower as some would suggest she thinks. And before you say "she should break the tower to save rand!" I'll remind you that the Dragon is not the be-all end-all because in previous ages they have managed to force a "Draw" while battling the CoL (or CoS I guess). And Rand himself says:

 

"I'm going to need you, all of you," he continued. "I hope to the Light that this time, you will give me your support." - Rand

 

As for Nynaeve. She is the most stubborn, self-aggrandizing, small-minded, sulky chit through most of the books. Doesn't it suck when someone strings together a bunch of character traits with absolutely no backing? Well this is what you guys do with Egwene. But here are my reasons:

 

Stubborn - well I'm not sure who'd disagree with that one. But when she's set in her ways and Egwene disagrees it's obviously Egwene's fault. Even though it was Nyn's plan to walk through the war-torn Carihien country-side which ultimately lead them to get captured and almost sold to the DO. But she's older so no one else has anything worth listening to right?

 

self-aggrandizing - Her refusal to admit she needs to be taught anything from anyone is often painful. Egwene spends the first bunch of books being awed and soaking in what she admits she does not know. Nynaeve fights everyone who tries to teach her anything. Sure she says she wants to learn the OP so she can fight Moir for ruining their lives, but she has to be dragged kicking and screaming the whole way. Just look at Verin having to manipulate Nynaeve into just trying to embrace while they traveled to the WT by saying she'd have to be a Novice if she didn't. Nynaeve refused to even try, Egwene was already soaking up information. Gee, I wonder why Egwene is so talented now?

 

"What doe she have to say to us and not to Elayne?" she wondered. "I do not care, so long as she does not try to stop me learning." - Egwene

 

Small-minded - Speaking of revenge on Moir, for the love of god I think her wanted to learn the OP went from revenge on Moir to taking Lan's bond. Maybe I should throw selfish in there. The world is coming to an end, but all she wants to do is hide in her farmhouse. But Egwene is obviously far too ambitious because she wants to not be irrelevant. Maybe I should add hypocritical, since she hates Aes Sedai but is joining them just so she can apparently take revenge on one? Give me a break.

 

But you know what else Nynaeve is? Extremely caring, respectful of all life, unbelievably loyal (possibly to a fault). So while I tend to be annoyed by her, I don't hate her. Well written characters have their quirks. So If you want to dislike Egwene, fine. But she is not the spawn of Satan, and she absolutely was not written to be hated just because that's your opinion of the character. And she has every right to question the Dragon Reborn. Given RJ confirmed that the CoL has gone to the shadow in the past, then obviously the Dragon can "screw up".

 

Q: Was Ishamael lying when he told Rand that the hero of the Light had turned to Shadow in other lifetimes?

RJ: No, he was not. Even those who lie sometimes tell the truth when it serves their purposes.

 

Mr. Ares did a good job of summarizing why she had to be Amyrlin. And if you think it's unrealistic go read up on delegate leadership races and particularly Stephane Dion's win of the Canadian Liberal Leadership party. On the first ballot Dion was 3rd place with only 17% and ended up winning by the fourth ballot basically because the drop outs didn't want the front runners (Iggy and Rae) to win.

 

Basically I think a lot of you need to reread the whole start of the series again. There is plenty to explain why Egwene knows what she knows and can do what she can do. I'm sorry there's no simple talent to explain it and that you can't wrap your head around the idea of someone working to achieve, or that it's not explicitly drawn out under your noses so that you can see it. But where does it say, "Egwene liked to spend all her free time kitting since she was confident she had already learned everything that could be learned in the world and that all of the decisions she made were exactly right."?

[Elan Tedronai]

^ pretty much so.

 

the reason egwene is hated is because as one poster put it 'she's dragging some folk's assess inline' And also she's has stolen the thunder of the lord dragon in some respects especially in the last 2 books.

 

nynaeve tried to go beyond her station inspite of being made aes sedai in salidar by the very woman she's disrespecting. she needed to be told that friendship is all well and good but egwene is amyrlin and she has to be obeyed. Reminds me when rand shielded verin and alanna back in LOC. He showed them he has come from a long way. He was no longer the doubting shepherd. And egwene is no longer the innkeeper's daughter in nynaeve eyes.

 

Nynaeve froze. Suddenly, her honesty melted into suspicion, her eyes

narrowing. "This wasn't about asking me for advice at all, was it?"

"Of course it was," Egwene said. "Only a fool would ignore the advice

of those who support her. But how did it feel for you, those first weeks

when you became Wisdom? When all the women you were supposed to be

leading looked at you only as the g i r l they had known?"

"Terrible," Nynaeve said softly.

"And were they wrong to do so?"

"Yes. Because I 'd become something more. It wasn't me any longer, it

was my station."

Egwene met the older woman's eyes, holding them, and an understanding

passed between them.

"Light," Nynaeve said. "You caught me quite soundly, didn't you?"

 

As for rand, well we have discussed this many a times. Suffice to say that the lord dragon should try and explain his decisions if he wants co-operation from the flame of tar valon. But i suspect he wasnt looking for one but just complete obedience. sorry mate it does not work like that.

 

Hell His alter ego did in the last age even if it was a flawed plan. And back then he had absolute control over all aes sedai both male and female.

[randsc]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

[Elan Tedronai]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

 

 

aaah enter randsc. This is not the first time you went personal. Funny, everytime i take a jibe at rand you have something personal to say. As if i took a swipe at one of your family members.

[Kahsm]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

 

They are very compelling, they just simply are not true.

[randsc]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

 

They are very compelling, they just simply are not true.

 

They are perfectly reasonable interpretations of the text. Interpretations shared by a majority of posters, so they're obviously not off the wall.

 

Some of yours are just weird. Like trying to argue that "submit" might be ominous, but "surrender" is just peachy. C'mon, admit it: You don't even believe that. You're just resorting to hyperbole because you think the criticisms of Egwene are hyperbolic themselves.

[randsc]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

 

 

aaah enter randsc. This is not the first time you went personal. Funny, everytime i take a jibe at rand you have something personal to say. As if i took a swipe at one of your family members.

 

 

 

 

Ahh, poor Elan, are we not taking you seriously enough?

 

You should be glad. If I took you seriously, I would think you either have really serious reading comprehension issue or are a world class douchebag. As it is, I just think you're a troll, but wish you would try harder at it. A clever troll can be a source of great amusement, and you've shown flashes of it. But lately, your troll-fu has been weak. Time to step up your game.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Mr Ares, I don't think you appreciate how hot Aviendha is :p

 

 

Yeah, she is

 

Egwene is soooo boring in comparison

[Entreri]

Mr Ares, I don't think you appreciate how hot Aviendha is :p

 

 

Yeah, she is

 

Egwene is soooo boring in comparison

 

Egwene are here friends are fugly in comparison to the likes of Lanfear and Berelain. Perrin went with Fail, when he should have gone with Berelain (and the bastard got Hopper killed). I would think Rand was almost gay (not that there is anything wrong with that), for refusing first Berelain, then Lanfear. The DR is an almost as big a failure as Perrin.

 

Egwene is still even more pathetic in that respect. Gawyn over Galad.

[Hybrid]

It'a not trolling. I'm not a grammar nazi (english not even my native language), but enough is enough.

 

Fair enough. I didn't find the original post that hard to comprehend, so I didn't think the strength your reply was warranted. My apologies.

[MasterAblar]

People are so reasonable when it comes to Egwene...

[Hybrid]

That was one of the most unintentionally funny lines in the series IMO. Not only is it monumentally arrogant and self-agrandifying, but it is also just plain stupid. The Seanchan have already faced the actual, true, honest to god Heroes of the Horn; and given that they are still invading the lands of the people those Heroes fought beside, their daring would seem to be of the level needed to face them again. Egwene... you should be embarassed to have even thought those words.

 

100% agreed. I literally could not believe it when I first read those words. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that it approaches is Rand's words in TPOD during his Seanchan campaign. Those might have been under the influence of the Callandor-magnified Taint, but they didn't even approach the level of ridiculousness or stupidity of Egwene's.

[Suttree]

That was one of the most unintentionally funny lines in the series IMO. Not only is it monumentally arrogant and self-agrandifying, but it is also just plain stupid. The Seanchan have already faced the actual, true, honest to god Heroes of the Horn; and given that they are still invading the lands of the people those Heroes fought beside, their daring would seem to be of the level needed to face them again. Egwene... you should be embarassed to have even thought those words.

 

100% agreed. I literally could not believe it when I first read those words. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that it approaches is Rand's words in TPOD during his Seanchan campaign. Those might have been under the influence of the Callandor-magnified Taint, but they didn't even approach the level of ridiculousness or stupidity of Egwene's.

 

She was using one of the most powerful items of power ever created. Imagine the rush from wielding that much Saidar combined with defeating almost single handed the greatest threat the WT has ever faced. Think she can be forgiven for going overboard in that situation.

[Elan Tedronai]

^ Pretty much absurd. The asses being dragged into line belong to Aes Sedai, a group hardly beloved by most people who don't like Egwene.

 

As for Rand, he got EXACTLY what he was looking for from Egwene, don't kid yourself.

 

There are many reasons people don't like Egwene. The fact that you and Kael don't find those reasons compelling doesn't mean that those reasons are invalid. Standards aren't set by trolls.

 

I still think Egwene just makes you feel all funny in your tummy.

 

 

aaah enter randsc. This is not the first time you went personal. Funny, everytime i take a jibe at rand you have something personal to say. As if i took a swipe at one of your family members.

 

 

 

 

Ahh, poor Elan, are we not taking you seriously enough?

 

You should be glad. If I took you seriously, I would think you either have really serious reading comprehension issue or are a world class douchebag. As it is, I just think you're a troll, but wish you would try harder at it. A clever troll can be a source of great amusement, and you've shown flashes of it. But lately, your troll-fu has been weak. Time to step up your game.

 

 

using the royal 'we' only confirmed to me what an assclown you are. I couldnt give about what you or anyone else for that matter take seriously.

 

And call me a troll all you like. But i am not the one who seems to be getting their panties in a twist everytime someone took a swipe at rand.

 

Looks like it's your pot belly that turns funny everytime rand is mentioned LMAO

[randsc]

Awwwwww.

 

Don't cry Elan. It's OK. It's just a book. No need to be so serious about how you don't take anything seriously.

 

Now, back to the topic.

 

One of the biggest reasons people hate Egwene is the over-the-top Egwene love demonstrated by her real-world partisans. Like you. This, in combination with the fact that she is never either called out for her flaws in world nor shows any real self-reflection in her POV's, is what makes the character tiresome.

 

Particularly tiresome (and childish, and stupid) is the notion so many of her supporters have that they know the hearts and minds of the character's critics. For example, the repeated claims that Egwene "haters" are either sexists or Rand fanboys. You don't know any such thing, and yet you persist in claiming to know how anonymous posters on a message board, people you have never met, came to feel the way they do about a character. As I have posted many times before, Rand isn't even in my top three favorite characters.

 

All I was doing in my "personal attack" was turning your tactic around on you. You claim you know people dislike Egwene because they love Rand. Very well, I claim you like Egwene because you are an Egwene fanboy. My statement is no more "personal" than yours. Turnabout is fair play.

[SuperFade]

using the royal 'we' only confirmed to me what an assclown you are. I couldnt give a fuck about what you or anyone else for that matter take seriously.

 

And call me a troll all you like. But i am not the one who seems to be getting their panties in a twist everytime someone took a swipe at rand.

 

Looks like it's your pot belly that turns funny everytime rand is mentioned LMAO

 

Am I alone in remembering a time when Elan wasn't a hilariously inept troll? I seem to recall him making some semblance of a good point about certain stuff prior to the release of TGS.

[randsc]

using the royal 'we' only confirmed to me what an assclown you are. I couldnt give a fuck about what you or anyone else for that matter take seriously.

 

And call me a troll all you like. But i am not the one who seems to be getting their panties in a twist everytime someone took a swipe at rand.

 

Looks like it's your pot belly that turns funny everytime rand is mentioned LMAO

 

Am I alone in remembering a time when Elan wasn't a hilariously inept troll? I seem to recall him making some semblance of a good point about certain stuff prior to the release of TGS.

 

Well, yeah, that's right. He always had trollish qualities, but he was capable of being clever, and sometimes actually hit on a good point.

 

I was serious is saying that he showed flashes of cleverness.

 

But he shouldn't dish it out if he can't take it.