Is rand truly to blaim

[Durinax]

Can rand be truly blaimed for the actions of the Asha Man?

 

I just want everyones views on this, please site reasons not just a yes/no answer with random things thrown in

[MasterAblar]

Can rand be truly blaimed for the actions of the Asha Man?

 

I just want everyones views on this, please site reasons not just a yes/no answer with random things thrown in

 

Yes, they're his men and therefore his responsability. It's his job to control them, or to find someone who will do it for him like Taim. In the end though he's still at the top of the pyaramid and has to answer for the actions of his followers.

[Durinax]

yes but he is not in charge of the institution, Taim is, it would be like blaiming egwene if one of the WT cooks went insane and killed 3 people. Or it is like that too me

 

would he also be to blame then if the school he started exploded or something destroying the neighboring buildings?

[MasterAblar]

yes but he is not in charge of the institution, Taim is, it would be like blaiming egwene if one of the WT cooks went insane and killed 3 people. Or it is like that too me

 

would he also be to blame then if the school he started exploded or something destroying the neighboring buildings?

 

Taim answers to Rand, and Rand is head ashaman, therefore yes he is to blame just as he would be if one of his schools exploded. Now other people inside those institutions, who are empowered by Rand are also to blame if they failed in any way. But they will answer to Rand for those failures, whereas Rand is the one who will have to answer to those outside the institutions who have been harmed in any way.

 

I don't know if anyone is to blame if someone goes mad out of nowhere.

[Durinax]

interesting. I see it as Taim is the one who should bear the brunt of the blame. Rand shouldnt receive any I think, due to the fact that he stepped back from a leadership role of the ashaman as a organization.

[AegisArcana]

The location of the responsibility or blame depends on how we define Ash'Aman. If that refers to male channelers who are members of the organization named the Black Tower, then yes, their actions reflect on the Black Tower as a whole and on the leaders of the Black Tower, namely Rand and Taim. The Black Tower has agreed to accept this man into its membership for the purposes of teaching and representation so effectively each member of the Black Tower is a representative of that organization similar to how each female Aes Sedai is a representative of the White Tower.

 

However, we must not infer that all male channelers are Ash'Aman. If an Ash'Aman leaves the tower by deserting or rebellion then he is no longer officially associated with the Black Tower. In that case neither the Black Tower's leadership nor the Black Tower is responsible for the actions of those male channelers. This is may be likened to how actions of some female channelers not associated with the White Tower, such as the Kin or the Athan'Miere channelers, are not indicative of White Tower intention or behavior. Furthermore, the responsibility for those actions does not fall on the White Tower or its leadership.

 

Using these general principles we can determine whether or not a male channeler's actions are the responsibility of the Black Tower or its leadership.

 

If the male channeler is a member of the Black Tower, officially designated as an Ash'Aman of whatever rank, then his actions reflect upon the Black Tower and its leadership and are thus the responsibility of the organization. In this case, the blame of their actions, if they have undesirable consequences, may rest in part upon Rand or Taim and the Black Tower.

 

If a male channeler is not a member of the Black Tower and thereby not officially designated an Ash'Aman, then the actions of that channeler are not the responsibility of Rand, Taim, or the Black Tower.

 

That should answer your question.

[David Selig]

Of course Rand is responsible, he created the Black Tower, he's the guy in charge of it (even though he's been avoiding this duty, he's never resigned from his position as the leader of the Asha'man) and he's the one who has let a really suspicious guy like Taim to be in charge there while he's away without any proper supervision ever since LoC.

[Ananta]

Rand is to blame. He appointed the leader of Asha'man, Taim, who happens to be a darkfriend.

 

It's like if I was the King of the World and appointed all countries to be led by criminals. I would be responsible for their actions, because I appointed them. I gave them all that power.

 

Know what I mean? D:

[Durinax]

actually I believe that taim wasnt always a df but was turned sometime just after rand appointed him leader of the Ashaman. Due to rand and taims interactions especially when rand starts to crack and taim tells him to not break yet, the world still needs him or some such.

[MasterAblar]

actually I believe that taim wasnt always a df but was turned sometime just after rand appointed him leader of the Ashaman. Due to rand and taims interactions especially when rand starts to crack and taim tells him to not break yet, the world still needs him or some such.

 

I actually think same. He probably broke when Rand introduced the pins.

[Elan Tedronai]

leaving the most powerful fighting force to a suspicious fellow like taim inspite of repeated warnings from logain and others and where his cronies tried to kill you is not what you call a good move.

 

 

because of this tarna and a whole lot of people have been turned. Dreadlords have been formed. Still if rand did pay attention in the first place like a leader ought to do, then elaida's foreteliing would never come to pass.

 

 

The BT days are numbered and it will be rendered in blood gloriously. At the forefront will be pevara and androl. That is if logain is still around

[Clayden69]

not personally supervising a bunch of mad-men-in-waiting makes him entirely at fault. as much as i like rand it's 1 of his many many mistakes. but most characters have made many mistakes and have flaws in their characters. makes for more compelling reading, naturally

[Agitel]

Rand founded the institution and Rand appointed it's leader, not to mention Rand still expects it to be 'his' on some level. Of course he's responsible for it. Even aside from that, Rand made the institution at a time when channeling saidin could lead to madness. It was him that drew many of it's recruits (and his ta'veren effect). The institution wouldn't have happened without him. Just because of the danger of men channeling, he's even more responsible.

[FarShainMael]

Can rand be truly blaimed for the actions of the Asha Man?

 

I just want everyones views on this, please site reasons not just a yes/no answer with random things thrown in

 

The asha'man are responsible for their own actions (at least the sane ones are), as is everybody who has free will and sanity.

 

Rand wished to gather an army of male channellers, with the intention of cleansing the taint and freeing male channellers from the taint and its consequent madness. He appointed Taim to take charge of this army. Unfortunately Rand was by this time himself as nutty as squirrel sh!# and he made a mistake in choosing someone who, deep down as evinced by the LTT-voice, he didn't trust further than he could throw him (without weaving Air!). Taim is almost certainly equally nuts, even leaving aside his probable DF-tendency. Madmen are by definition not responsible for their own actions, much less anyone else's!

[Hybrid]

The BT days are numbered and it will be rendered in blood gloriously.

 

I hope whoever does it uses Mental Ray.

[Elan Tedronai]

Can rand be truly blaimed for the actions of the Asha Man?

 

I just want everyones views on this, please site reasons not just a yes/no answer with random things thrown in

 

The asha'man are responsible for their own actions (at least the sane ones are), as is everybody who has free will and sanity.

 

Rand wished to gather an army of male channellers, with the intention of cleansing the taint and freeing male channellers from the taint and its consequent madness. He appointed Taim to take charge of this army. Unfortunately Rand was by this time himself as nutty as squirrel sh!# and he made a mistake in choosing someone who, deep down as evinced by the LTT-voice, he didn't trust further than he could throw him (without weaving Air!). Taim is almost certainly equally nuts, even leaving aside his probable DF-tendency. Madmen are by definition not responsible for their own actions, much less anyone else's!

 

 

alarms bells should have start ringing the moment taim's men tried to kill him.

[MasterAblar]

Can rand be truly blaimed for the actions of the Asha Man?

 

I just want everyones views on this, please site reasons not just a yes/no answer with random things thrown in

 

The asha'man are responsible for their own actions (at least the sane ones are), as is everybody who has free will and sanity.

 

Rand wished to gather an army of male channellers, with the intention of cleansing the taint and freeing male channellers from the taint and its consequent madness. He appointed Taim to take charge of this army. Unfortunately Rand was by this time himself as nutty as squirrel sh!# and he made a mistake in choosing someone who, deep down as evinced by the LTT-voice, he didn't trust further than he could throw him (without weaving Air!). Taim is almost certainly equally nuts, even leaving aside his probable DF-tendency. Madmen are by definition not responsible for their own actions, much less anyone else's!

 

 

alarms bells should have start ringing the moment taim's men tried to kill him.

 

It didn't take that for Rand to start doubting Taim. Rand has never trusted him from the day he put him in charge. Problem was there was no one else to do the job and Rand didn't have the time to do it himself. Thereafter Taim did exactly what he said he would: build Rand an army, an army that had so far proven to be both terribly effective and loyal. After the four, that Rand may or may not have remembered were Taim's men, attacked he had reason to grow suspicious, but then Taim reported them himself, and Rand decided he had to deal with the four renegades first as well as cleansing the source, which kept him busy and left him exhausted him. Logain's warning should have heightened his suspicions, but then he has no reason to trust Logain either.

[Thor]

No, Taim was not turned after he met Rand. It was before. He has channeled Saidin for way too long without going insane.

[Durinax]

No, Taim was not turned after he met Rand. It was before. He has channeled Saidin for way too long without going insane.

if he didnt channel often then he could have managed it. Also he could have a better resistance to going insane

[dutchman1789]

Rand is responsible for the actions, but any sort of punishment would have to wait until after the last battle.

[Kahsm]

I assume you just spelled it wrong, but "blaim" is a hilarious pun for a topic on "Taim".

[rageofwar1978]

a. rand founded the black tower to train men who can channel to channel and become weapons.

b. he was there long enough to tour and spout some drivel about "push them harder taim." then he flaming left.

c. has to the best of my knowledge been back there a bare handful of times since the founding. long enough that several classes have graduated. over a year iirc.

 

blame should be laid fully at his feet for the conduct of the ashaman and taim, all of them. rand represents the idea that they are to strive to. it is well within his power and has been to stop the deprevations of taim and his flunkies. why is it rand will stomp the snot out of nobility but acts like the black tower has a free pass out of jail?

[rageofwar1978]

I assume you just spelled it wrong, but "blaim" is a hilarious pun for a topic on "Taim".

 

roflmao i didnt even notice that. good catch.

[Southpaw89]

Rand should've had Logain keep a tighter watch on Taim's actions. If Rand tried to intervene personally, crap would've hit the fan quickly and things would've gone downhill from there. So he didn't make the mistake in not being involved, he made the mistake in not keeping a closer eye on it or having someone like Logain do it. I know, Logain was anyway but Rand seemed to turn more of a blind eye than he should've.

[MasterAblar]

Rand should've had Logain keep a tighter watch on Taim's actions. If Rand tried to intervene personally, crap would've hit the fan quickly and things would've gone downhill from there. So he didn't make the mistake in not being involved, he made the mistake in not keeping a closer eye on it or having someone like Logain do it. I know, Logain was anyway but Rand seemed to turn more of a blind eye than he should've.

 

Ran didn't really trust Logain anymore then he trusted Taim.