The 3rd Callandor wielder

[The Don]

So we know two, Rand and Nynaeve, but who's the 3rd? My 2 main cantidates (probably the only 2) are the Seachan woman that Min said would help Rand die, and Moraine. I never really thought about Moraine until Mat saved her... hence giving up half the light to save the world. She can hardly channel a lick now, but she may not have to, just direct the flow since she has the most experience, and maybe an answer from her visit to the Finns. But then, how will the other lady help Rand die?

[Sharaman]

Cadsuane? Just as another less obvious but not absolutely to be discounted possibility. Or either Aviendha or Elayne (unlikely because both may be pregnant).

[michael.clinton83]

Lanfear?! Sorry, I'm a sucker for characters in any story that go through some form of redemption. I'd love Lanfear to come back to the light, and eventually sacrifice herself in an effort to help save the world.

 

Generally every concept RJ has introduced into the books has eventually crept in as an actual event. For example, we've all heard about how 13x13 works from lonnnng ago, and I'm guessing we'll finally get confirmation that Taim and his Asha'man have had that done to them. Another concept we've heard is that no one can be in the shadow so long that they cannot be brought back to the light. Who has been in the shadow longer than the person who actually created the bore in the DO's prison in the first place? Sure, I'm EXTREMELY skeptical of her intentions in the dream scene at the end of ToM, but it's definitely something to consider. The only person that you could even argue came back to the light has been Asmodean, so I'd say we're still waiting for this to actually happen.

 

Besides, who would know how to seal the bore better than the one that made it?

[UncleButcher1980]

I think it's going to be Egwene for not particular reason.

[The Don]

Lanfear would be pretty sweet... and she might know how to close it for good as well!

[lilltempest]

Personally, I'd love for it to be Logain or, even better (since I want Logain to go be awesome alone) let that spineless lapdog Narishma be the third...with Rand leading the circle and the other man channeling through Callandor. Cadswallop said that it wasn't safe for a man to use unless he was in a circle because there is no buffer - to make a circle of three, all he needs is one woman, not two, and as long as Rand isn't the one channeling through Callandor, the lack of a buffer will not matter any more than it would with a woman leading the circle. That said, my guess is that the bitch, Egwene, is going to insist on doing it and leading the circle so she can claim she beat the DO herself.

[michael.clinton83]

Personally, I'd love for it to be Logain or, even better (since I want Logain to go be awesome alone) let that spineless lapdog Narishma be the third...with Rand leading the circle and the other man channeling through Callandor. Cadswallop said that it wasn't safe for a man to use unless he was in a circle because there is no buffer - to make a circle of three, all he needs is one woman, not two, and as long as Rand isn't the one channeling through Callandor, the lack of a buffer will not matter any more than it would with a woman leading the circle. That said, my guess is that the bitch, Egwene, is going to insist on doing it and leading the circle so she can claim she beat the DO herself.

 

I might be wrong but two things; 1) Doesn't the prophecy state that it would be Rand and 2 women? 2) I'm pretty sure a circle can't have more men than woman. Can anyone confirm?

[David Selig]

In most cases the circles can't have more men than women, yes, but two men and one woman is an exception, according to the Guide.

[Elvira_Sedai]

In most cases the circles can't have more men than women, yes, but two men and one woman is an exception, according to the Guide.

 

Do you sure ? As far as I remember one man and one woman is an exception and all rest circles reguire more women than men .

 

Back to the question , there are no prophecy directly saying about Rand + 2 women wielding Callandor , it's Cadsuane who believes that is the only safe way to use this Sa'angreal .

[David Selig]

Here's the quote:

 

The Guide:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men.

[michael.clinton83]

Gotcha. So if there wasn't a prophecy about it, why are we assuming that the cirle will have 3? Why not 4? 5? 13?

[FarShainMael]

According to Cadsuane's research, because of the flaw Callandor can only be handled safely by a one man- two woman circle, with a woman guiding the flows (TGS48).

[Superhal]

Hmm. This implies that the woman who handles saidin would need to be one of the AoL AS, i.e. Lanfear or one of the other female forsaken, otherwise they wouldn't know how to handle the flows, particularly one as large as through Callandor. This would pretty much eliminate everyone who was born after the Breaking.

 

Unless the wondergirls discover yet another talent that was never hinted at before.

[sleepinghour]

Hmm. This implies that the woman who handles saidin would need to be one of the AoL AS, i.e. Lanfear or one of the other female forsaken, otherwise they wouldn't know how to handle the flows, particularly one as large as through Callandor. This would pretty much eliminate everyone who was born after the Breaking.

Elza had no problem leading the circle with Callandor at the Cleansing.

[spoke]

but the flaw is what makes it important. Rand will take only the seanchan woman. and will leave Nyn. to whatever, while he and the seanchan use the flaw to kill themselves, thus she will help Rand die while saving the world.

[Superhal]

Hmm. This implies that the woman who handles saidin would need to be one of the AoL AS, i.e. Lanfear or one of the other female forsaken, otherwise they wouldn't know how to handle the flows, particularly one as large as through Callandor. This would pretty much eliminate everyone who was born after the Breaking.

Elza had no problem leading the circle with Callandor at the Cleansing.

 

I don't think she was doing any complicated weaves though, just blasting with fire.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Lanfear will be doing something though I'd imagine.

 

Daughter of the Night, she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.

Who can stand against her coming? The Shining Walls shall kneel.

 

Maybe she'll be part of the circle, but then take over and use Callandor against the Light?

[OptimusPrime]

Narishma, Alivia and Nynaeve.

[FarShainMael]

Hmm. This implies that the woman who handles saidin would need to be one of the AoL AS, i.e. Lanfear or one of the other female forsaken, otherwise they wouldn't know how to handle the flows, particularly one as large as through Callandor. This would pretty much eliminate everyone who was born after the Breaking.

Elza had no problem leading the circle with Callandor at the Cleansing.

 

Hmm. Elza tured out to be a DF. Might this be significant?

[Leyrann]

In what way, do you mean? That the Black Ajah has experience channeling saidin? If so, I doubt it.

[Mystica]

Alivia is rumored to be 'much' stronger than Nynaeve in the One Power and Nynaeve herself is considered on par with the Forsaken, though probably the weakest of those. If Alivia is much stronger than one who is on par with the weaker forsaken, it's conceivable that Alivia herself is on par with the stronger ones (if not the strongest). She has shown a remarkable skill in learning, is exceptionally good in destructive weaves and has survived with her sanity intact for hundreds of years as a damane thereby fooling mind control tactics the Sul'dam use on their charges to 'make them forget that they were human once'. No other damane has ever even come close to a little of that. The vast majority at some point or other becomes so brainwashed that they literally 'want' to be leashed. Alivia not only retained her individuality throughout that process but kept it for hundreds of years while fooling the most skilled manipulators and brainwashers in the world. That combined with her strength in the OP and the fact that Rand trusts her fully, knowing she will 'help him die', makes it more likely that she will be the third.

 

Lanfear, he won't trust, no matter if she repents. Too much is at stake for him to take such a risk.

Cadsuane, she's not as strong as Nynaeve, let alone Alivia. He may have forgiven her but she still made a huge mistake in his books according to the last book.

Moiraine, even with the angreal she has doesn't match Nynaeve or Alivia, let alone Rand. It's more likely she will be trusted to guard their back while they're doing it. Together with Cadsuane.

Logain will be too busy gaining his glory (unwittingly) and I doubt that being a conduit for Rand constitutes a glorious act.

 

My money is still on Alivia therefore. It's possible that while using Callandor it will drain Rand from his lifeforce and he will rely on Alivia to keep the circle intact until whatever they're set out to do is done, regardless the cost to him or them. Nynaeve, being the Healer she is, would likely find a way to break the circle (she's done the impossible on more than one occasion, after all) so she may endanger the mission by caring too much. In such an event, Alivia is the only one strong enough to stop her. Alivia knows sacrifice. She's had to destroy countless of people in her hundreds of years as a damane and somehow still kept her sanity, her individuality. She knows how to prioritise and detach herself from the action she is doing. It's possible she has had to destroy people she knew, she loved, in her time as damane. And she doesn't have the emotional connection to Rand that Nynaeve has.

 

So for all those reasons, my guess remains Alivia.

[NetSlider]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned (probably yes) but I'm doing very slow and deliberate re-listen of WoT and couple things jumped out for me in EotW. In chapter 16 Min tells Rand that when Moiraine and Nynaeve were together she saw sparks with just two of them and before that she only saw sparks if more of them were present. Could this be a clear and definitive confirmation that Nanyeve and Moiraine are the ones to us Callandor with Rand? Personally, I think yes. Plus it fits Min's other viewings of Moiraine

 

[pamela]

I'm not 100% sure Rand will choose Moiraine instead of Alivia, but what I think is that he should trust the former more- while letting the latter be around, giving her a free hand to help him die- and IMO using Callandor is actually the matter of trust rather than just pure strenght in OP. Besides, is the difference in strenght between two ladies (with Moiraine supported by her angreal) so important in the face of the overall amount of Power accessible via Callandor?

[Leyrann]

Moiraine.

[blazetheearth]

Moiraine.

 

 

I agree that it will be Moiraine. I think it will be her because Mat gave up 1/2 the light of the world to "save the world" which means that she has some knowledge that Rand will require to "save the world" (I'm thinking that she asked the Foxes for the knowledge of how to seal the Bore or kill the DO). We know that she got 3 things from the Foxes, but so far we only know 1 of the things (the angreal) She had reason to suspect the Foxes could do implant knowledge directly to her (she had already had suspicions about Mat's battle skill, so it would make sense for her to ask for knowledge and we know the only physical thing she left with was the angreal. Her life's mission has been to help Rand, so it makes sense that she would ask for info to help him, and at the time she disappeared with Lanfear, she didn't know anything that would necessarily help "save the world".

 

Cads says that Callandor must be used with a woman weaving the flows. None of the other women have the knowledge of how to weave saidin, they only know saidar. Just like Rand didn't know how to weave saidar during the Cleansing and his weaving of saidar came out totally different than what he expected. Sealing the Bore is probably not the best place to experiment in trying to do something for the first time like he did with the Cleansing.

 

I think Moiraine's 3 Gifts from the Foxes were

 

1) the angreal

2) knowledge of how to seal the Bore

3) knowledge of how to weave saidin

 

the last 2 things would make her someone who can "save the world" and would be very important to have in Callandor's circle.

 

A note on all the other circles with men and women combined. Almost all simply had the circle leader using the opposite power to strengthen weaves that were made with the original power. A couple of exceptions were when Rand performed the Cleansing and when Semi used saidin to torture Min. By contrast when Grady and Neald added saidar to their Gateways or when Flinn was fighting Demandred, both were referred to as having "strengthened" existing weaves.

 

I would give supporting quotes for all these if I had my books handy.