What you dislike most about the series?

[Hybrid]

The good Chemist

ee cummings

please... call me Ho or ho

 

it's not just HERE that I won't capitalize, it's EVERYwhere (excepting only the most formal situations like when I take over proofreading WoT). you know why, because it's redundant! all you need is the "." period! anything more is not only a waste of time but an exercise in gullibility. the capital and the extra space are like added safeguards for the stupid / blind / illiterate. they are like having training wheels on your bike your whole life! take them off dammit, ride free! it's so much more liberating and fulfilling. not having to flex your fingers so far to hold down extra keys for no reason. don't knock it until you've tried it! only proper nouns are an exception, because it sometimes changes the meaning (i.e. creator or Creator, etc.)

 

"you have to do it like this for no reason except that we all do"

 

"ok" (baah)

 

(that was supposed to be a sheep!) yes the craic here has been sufficient

 

Traditions should not be maintained just because they were traditions.

~Towers of Midnight

 

George R.R. Martin took damn near six years to do the job right

ONE WEEK man! in ONE WEEK I said, I will fix every typo for you, no matter how many there are to begin with!

 

while the New Spring story is certainly connected to the main series, it isn't necessary to it.

neither is Crossroads of Twilight!!

 

alright I have no further comments on whether the original series of 3 was milked into either 14 or 15 books (or more) as it's irrelevant. although it's starting to look like "more" as isn't there also a guidebook or something, and what did that previous poster say back there about "outriggers" planned...? the original point was how the commercial success of a thing leads to the commissioning of more crap to sell, and "OH WELL" if the quality of the subsequent crap is nowhere near that of the original crap (i.e. Crossroads of Twilight)

 

Corrected some typos for you.

[Durinax]

my main dislike for the series, is these forums and how "who is so and so reborn?" that just pisses me off.

 

another thing that kinds of irks me is how every woman in the series is on such a high horse that when they get knocked off they find a higher one to climb onto. (although elayne and nyn do get better I find personnal opinion dont bother trying to say anything about it)

[Lama Chemist Ho]

Corrected some typos

hardly! all you have done is compromised the artistic integrity. you should be quite ashamed of yourself

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Corrected some typos

hardly! all you have done is compromised the artistic integrity. you should be quite ashamed of yourself

 

And all you did was to compromise the artistic integrity of the english language. You should be quite ashamed of yourself.

[Thorgan]

I hate how stupidity is used as a plot device. A lot of books and movies use this, but it's still retarded.

 

The children of the light for example. Especially Dain Bornhald. I guess Byar would make sense if he's a dark friend.

Also Aes Sedai are in some ways very intelligent and otherwise really dumb. "Black ajah doesn't exist let's never talk about it". Especially Elaida.

 

Rand gets told many times that he is LTT. Yet he denies it and never considers that he actually is LTT reborn.

[DocBean]

My biggest dislike of the series is that I'm never really scared for any of the characters.

I love how detailed the world is, and how Jordan thought so much through decades ago, but the story is WAY too Black and White.

It's like a 1950s Western movie, the guys in the White hats vs the guys in the Black hats, and you know the good guys will be just fine when it's over.

 

We all knew Moraine wasn't dead.

We never fear for any of the main characters.

 

I read the books because I have for a long time, it was my first Fantasy series that I stuck with (Dragonlance before that, but I didn't finish the 2nd or 3rd book).

If I picked the first one up today, and hadn't read them, I doubt I'd finish them.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Way too slow. The plot is wonderful, but the pacing is rediculously slow and the characters never feel real to me. And while the practice of giving little hints about the AoL, Shadow, Finnland, etc. and never telling the complete story is tantalizing (imagine the full story of the AoL: it would be sci-fi instead of fantasy, but not any more awesome than the Third Age. By doling it out in little pieces though, RJ made the AoL feel utterly badass ), it would be nice if there were a few more tidbits. You get one scene with the wonders of the ancient past or the tricks of the Shadow that makes you go "AHHHH! This story is amazing!", but then you slog through 500 pages that feel like padding. If it was cut down to maybe eight or nine shorter books this would have been a much better series IMO. On the other hand, one of my WoT-reading friends points out that these books are all we get of this world, so them being long and detailed isn't nessesarily a bad thing...

[Vinny]

The portrayal of the females when they interact with the male protagonists (the gender thing) and the "funny" rape of Mat.

 

First off! Heja Sverige. Ett steg närmare världsdominans! =P

 

Second: I dk if that was Jordan´s intention but maybe he portrayed the women as interacting with the men as he did, to make a statement how the men in our world act with women. Subversive writing... although if some of the men irl were as pigheaded as some of the women in WoT I would smack them.

And rape of women is still considered as something... like meh. Mean crime, rape is bad, but hey girl? What were you wearing and maybe you liked it rough? And nobody cares.

 

But my biggest one is! Nobody communicates! And I hate the fact that there is a man vs woman war going on. I really hope that will be reconciled at the end of the series.

 

Sorry, I have to take you up on this. It simply isn't true. If a man is so much as accused of rape, the whole force of the legal system is thrown at him. Even if (as in far too many case) the accusations turn out to be completely false & the accuser retracts her accusation, the man still has to go through the whole legal procedure to get cleared. Men falsely accused of rape often have to complete a prison sentence even though the original accusation has been withdrawn. Sorry, you are either very young or simply ignorant of the facts. Look this stuff up, it's appalling.

[capuga]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

 

A pretty funny and spot on comparison of the the Sweet covers vs the new ebook covers:

 

Cover comparison

[randsc]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

 

A pretty funny and spot on comparison of the the Sweet covers vs the new ebook covers:

 

Cover comparison

 

A good comparison. And even if it results in my condemnation by the Emus and Sunnys of the world: i can haz Moiraine?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

why would that follow? that's the best of those covers. we all missed moiraine. doesn't have to be anything creepy about it.

[FortySix]

Elayne and Perrin's endless whining about his wife.

[Hybrid]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

 

A pretty funny and spot on comparison of the the Sweet covers vs the new ebook covers:

 

Cover comparison

 

Nice. I'd never seen the eBook covers. The TSR and TFOH ones are awesome.

[Puny]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

 

A pretty funny and spot on comparison of the the Sweet covers vs the new ebook covers:

 

Cover comparison

 

Nice. I'd never seen the eBook covers. The TSR and TFOH ones are awesome.

 

The comparison was spot on. And funny =) Now I´m waiting for part 2 and I agree with the author. The Robert Jordan on the new covers is abit too large.

[Hybrid]

Part 2 is up: http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2011/07/wheel-of-time-art-off-part-2.html

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

very nice articles, and a good and fair analysis. thanks for posting them, Hybrid.

[Hybrid]

Thanks, though I can't really take the credit. Mark Grayson posted the first one; I was just following up on his post.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

darned short term memory lapses. . . thanks, Mark Grayson, too!

[Puny]

Thanks Mark and Hybrid.

 

Really nice article and funny =)

[Guest Prestige]

Wheel of time is my favorite book series and I have re-read entire series for atleast 3-4 times but there are somethings that bug me.

 

1: Incompotense and weakness of the Shadow.

 

In first books Shadow is a real threat, it feels like Trollocs could overpower humans anytime they would want if they really would came out in force and after Forsaken are released it seems like Shadow is just toying with the world and Light is screwed. Currently? Rand has hundreds of Ashaman and Egwene has several hundred Aes Sedai added by hundreds of Wise One channelers and Kin/Wind talkers and because One Power appears to be perfectly convinient and how couple channelers can wipe out entire armies I dont feel like Trollocs are any threat anymore. It really does not matter does Shadow has 100 000 or 10 000 000 trollocs because if you put hundred Ashaman/Aes sedai channelers stand in line numbers becomes meaningless. So far only threat Shadow really has is Shai Tan himself, Forsaken are incompetent and too tightly leashed. Moridin does not seem to have real clue what to do and Shaidar Haran appears only a powerful enforcer to keep Forsaken useless.

 

2: One power and godlike status of channelers:

 

Long age, instant travel, ability to instantly destroy hundreds of normal men/trollocs, healing etc. There is massive, huge cap between human who cannot channel and human who can. 10 channelers can destroy 1000 men without braking a sweat. This was fine at first books but lately with huge increase of number of channelers and many being very powerful to the boot and with founding of these new/old weaves that makes matters even worse. I dont even know is there even any needs for gathering armies for last battle when you can just send 100 channelers and be done with it? Seriosly when Dark One finally gets defeated how long it will take until channelers start slaving non-channeling 'mortals'?

 

Perrin and even Mat (without medallion) can be easily killed by even weak channelers without much effort, ability to channel makes all diffrence of being just normal man and being demigod with centuries long life time and power to level entire towns.

 

3: Elayne.

 

Everyone seems to have one charecter who they love to hate and mine is definatly Elayne.

 

Arrogant, stubborn, small minded, ungrateful,self-righteous Mary Sue (writers 'perfect' charecter who he loves and is perfect with looks and actions). I actually liked her charecter in first books but she became gradually worse as story progressed and when she reached Caemlyn to claim throne she become UNBEARABLE. I hate how she always gets her way and how she is appearing to be most powerful ruler in Randland and how Rand is throwing entire nations to her just because she and Rand had good time in hallways of Stone of Tear...

 

It feels like Elayne is new main charecter of series, I gritted my teeth when my favorite charecter Mat was forced to reveale power of gunpowder for her and become her and her alone servant, Mat is perhaps greatest military genious alive and he has army powerful to control a small country, he is Prince of Ravens and has position with Seanchan but she becomes mere liutenant for Elayne and is forced to give power of cannons to Andor and Elayne alone.

 

Then Perrin and Two rivers became her subject aswell, I was so angry... Perrin could have rised Manetheren from grave and forged it a powerful nation compromising much of Arad Doman, Two rivers, Ghealdas and Saldea, nation almost size of empire but instead he bows down to Elayne even though Two rivers has nothing to do with Andor besides some old ambitious maps. Perrin is a powerful Ta'aver with charisma of emperors but ultimately he and Two rivers become just a mere province of Elaynes ever growing empire.

 

I felt that half of recent books has been about Elayne and her oh so important struggle for throne of Andor, Elayne bathing, Elayne suffering pregnancy, Elayne angry for Rand about everything and wanting Rand to surrender to Aes Sedai. I dont even think that Rand and Elayne fit together so well, fate just made them love each other though it appears Elayne dont even think that much about Rand, almost like he is mere pest almost like a threat. She is even turning against Rand and undermining everything Rand does, Rand could take Andor from her any moment he would want and she just spits him on face. I do like Min and Aviendha and I understand why they love Rand but Elayne is total mystery, she should just marry Aviendha and let Min and Rand be alone.

 

Aah I could complain about Elayne for pages but I am just biased towards her.

[Joshua Hendrickson]

It seems like everyone else has already covered it all, so I'll just pull a Jordan and repeat what's already been said ad nauseum:

Feminine bullying.

Repetition of descriptions, phrases, traits, and explanations.

Little attempt to keep minor characters clear (by the latter half of the series I need notes to keep me abreast of just who the hell these stupid people are).

Willful obscurity.

Dragging out over thousands of pages what could be done in a few hundred.

Inability to let characters just plain die (stupid Moridin).

Filler filler filler. And more filler.

Introduction of new major characters too late in the story (Moridin, again).

Mistaking confusion (readers don't know what the hell's going on) for suspense (characters don't know what the hell's going on but the reader does and so can worry about what might happen to the characters).

Prudishness. Whoever said that WOT isn't naughty enough for HBO is absolutely right. The prudery isn't universal to all WOT cultures and nations but it damn well is to the Two Rivers and that keeps the books from feeling adequately adult rather than juvenile.

The irritable personalities of almost everyone. Being pissy isn't terribly attractive.

The frequent clumsiness of Jordan's prose.

The fact that I keep rereading it anyway ... but at least I don't delude myself that WOT is the greatest fantasy series of all time. It's just the longest and possibly the most complex. But it sure isn't the greatest.

[Joshua Hendrickson]

Do you have any idea

uh, no offense but maybe your reading skill is not on a level with mine? I only say this because for me catching typos is EXTREMELY easy...in fact I can't NOT. it is my burden and my curse. for instance when you write things like

 

In once case,

or

 

by just to make sure

I can't help but read what you wrote as you wrote it. ordinarily I would NEVER point it out or care in the least or think less of anyone for it (especially not when its just casual internet posting)...I just don't think it belongs in a WoT book! yes I could easily catch and fix every typo in a week or less...ALL you have to do is read each word, remain focused while doing so and have good spelling. maybe thats beyond most people but proofreaders of a major series should have that.

 

@ cindy I am in complete agreement with you and ares. the proofreaders should be well compensated for their effort (IMO its an important-ish job they do) and given MORE than one day to accomplish their task. if I was treated like crap then yes, I too would probably poison WoT with typo after typo as an act of rebellion. the ultimate fault (as usual) lies with management. "hey there's still all these typos...ok, what's going on with the proofreader(s)?" <- how hard is that

 

the title of the thread is "what you dislike most about the series" well I cringe at all the typos, sorry! its a totally fixable thing for a competent company and you will never convince me otherwise

 

Catching typos that others make is one thing; catching your own is another. I notice that you fail to correctly punctuate the contracted form of "it is" in your post. Failing to capitalize words may be your personal choice, but mistaking "its" for "it's" is simply incorrect usage.

 

Sincerely, the Grammar Gestapo.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

(he's kinda playing with us. and deliberately misunderstanding and incorrectly paraphrasing what others have said. distancing myself from this "source")

[Joshua Hendrickson]

Yeah, if you think Robert Jordan overdid the description it's nothing compared to Gormenghast. But the way Peake used language and description was much more effective, and it never felt like padding, at least to me. The incredibly gothic world demanded that level of detail and since the first two books take place almost exclusively within the same castle it really works well.

 

But I could gush for hours on why I think Gormenghast is the greatest thing ever and I have no desire to derail the topic so I'll just say that it's worth a try if you enjoyed WoT.

 

Ah, Gormenghast! I read Peake's magnificent trilogy when I was 19, at least 7 years before I ever touched WOT. A good reminder that for all of Jordan's qualities, he is far from being the greatest fantasy writer.

[Joshua Hendrickson]

How else should RJ put it? "Nynaeve folds her arms beneath her chesticles?"

lol actually ALL you have to say is "she folded her arms" or "she crossed her arms". we KNOW where it was in relation to her breasts! you don't say "he sat down on his buttocks" or "he folded his hands near his penis" do you? I guarantee you you don't! to me it just seemed like a poor way of forcing a contrived sensuality into the writing that didn't really belong

 

Is everything to do with sexuality--or even "sexual" anatomy--then automatically a commercial consideration? I wish, for reasons of art and verisimilitude, that there was much more sex in WOT; it would reduce the sense of juvenalia.

 

Man, I hate prudes.