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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

CadeForeverfar

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  1. Gaidal is older than her, not younger. This is why he was gone from TAR before she was torn out. Just clearing that up. He had been spun out first yes, but as a baby, the proper way. She was torn out out afterwards but as a young adult. So he would technically be younger in body. Yes, but usually he would have been older had she not been torn out. This is in direct contrast with servant of all's comment: Bridgette Always said Gaidal was much younger than her.
  2. There are precious few friendships in the series, regardless of gender. It's curious, because I think Jordan excels at character development and consistency, but he does a generally poor job with relations between those characters. People fall in love simply because they need to for plot purposes, they treat their so-called friends like garbage (Egwene is the worst offender here), and there are very few instances of people showing genuine concern for each other. It's a rare and startling moment when a character does as little as hug another, as Nynaeve did for Rand in ToM. That would be my primary issue, but my second is that Jordan let the cast of characters get too big. I anticipate some people will take exception to that, and I agree that some very nice characterizations and moments would have been lost if the cast were cut down, but I think the benefits outweigh it. The major problems with making your cast so large are that you A.) Waste time on unnecessary character interactions and thus bog down the narrative and B.) Lose some of the distinction of your more minor characters. Case in point is Thom. In the first three books, he was terrific, one of my favorite characters. He was deep, he had great back-and-forths with Mat, he was an active character who made or at least influenced decisions, and got a lot of screen time. Contrast that to the last few books. Instead of being paired up with Mat or Mat/Rand, he's clumped in with Mat, Tuon, Selucia, Edesina, Joline, Teslyn, Setalle, Domon, Egeanin, Juilin, Thera, Olver, Noal, Luca, and an entire traveling circus. Goodbye amusing, entertaining Thom who plays an active role in events. Hello boring adjunct Thom who kicks around worthlessly in the background until ToG. Example #2 is Noal. Maybe I'm a cold-hearted SOB and am the only one who feels this way, but I felt nothing when he died in ToG. No sobs, no sniffles, the room didn't even get a little dusty. Why not? Because he was one little member of a giant menagerie who did nothing more than play stones with Olver. Contrast that with Ingtar, who died in a similar manner with a similar purpose, and struck a major chord because, while there were a bunch of soldiers along with them, the relevant group of hunters was really the big 3, Loial, Ingtar, and Hurin. He had face time, decision-making power, and felt like a distinct character. If it had been Mat, Thom, and Noal churning across Altara for two to three books, I'm confident I would have made a connection with Noal that would have given his death some pathos. But because RJ had to hold onto these ostensibly useless and minor characters, the Noal interactions were sparse, limited, and ultimately meaningless. Wonderfully said. Bloody wonderfully said.
  3. Gaidal is older than her, not younger. This is why he was gone from TAR before she was torn out. Just clearing that up.
  4. Well he is seen by Mat in one of his memories, would that count?
  5. Title says it all. Mine is the amount of sexism. Seriously, it caused me to put the book down on several occasions, and after I read The Way of Kings I realised how childish it made the characters seem. All of them, seriously. It had me fuming at some points.
  6. Well, if Rand simply seals the DO away again, Shai'tan has won. RJ focused on this age and gave us the WoT philosophy, as well as Moridin's own philosophy, and if Rand doesn't do something totally different then there has been no real win or conclusion. I just don't think RJ was that sort of writer.
  7. Maybe, but that doesn't really make for a very good conclusion.
  8. My assumption about the end of the series is that Rand (imbued with LTT's memories, past mistakes and successes) will "kill" Shai'tan, in the broad sense of the word. Why not? He reversed the DO's touch on saidin, a touch which effected the entire, incomprehensible well of saidin, stretching the Choeden Kal *spelling* to their limits at the same time. These apparently had enough power to challenge and kill the DO (Thanks Lanfear), and possibly the Creator. If he was able to do that, is it not possible that he will find some way to destroy Shai'tan? I know he doesn't have the Choeden Kal anymore, but it's Rand guys, anything could happen. He'll change EVERYTHING, otherwise there will be no real closure in the ending. We know it will all happen again, and that's just not good enough for me. Thoughts?
  9. I got to page three, but I have to go to sleep, don't blame me for repeating arguments or whatever. Rand accepts that he is Lews Therin, we are all agreed upon that point. Now this is obviously a unique situation, with Rand breaking down the walls between the lives, therefore breaking the rules and all that stuff. He now has all the same memories and experience that Lews Therin did, and remember doing all of the thing Lews Therin did. Since he has accepted that they are the same soul, and in his own words the same person, this then means that he did do all of the things Lews Therin did, and he does accept responsibility for his successes, failures, as well as perceiving his experiences, learning, thoughts and relationships as his own. Whilst you al have valid arguments, the fact remains that a) he is the prophesised rebirth of the Dragon, not simply another Dragon (we know this for sure through LTT's memories, the Wheel's agenda etc), does that not imply they are the same person? b) Rand accepts now (with LTT's considerable intelligence and 400 years of experience) that he and Lews Therin are one and the same, would you even try to think about attempting to argue with a 420 year old? (yes yes, RJ wrote it, it's not real, but that imagined experience is real upon the WoT world! We are ignoring the fact that metaphysics and time work differently there, even if it is our world too) I ask of you, after I have carefully taken in your arguments, to set aside your own decision and think about it. The textual evidence mainly points to Rand being the same person, whether you bring in quotes which may or may not be out of context, they were said at one point in the writing process, and thoughts may have changed. But the book has not, and will not. Cheers.
  10. Well, basically the entire Teenage Fantasy album by Secret and Whisper. I listened to it whilst I read through, and it just fits perfectly for me.
  11. I constantly see people saying that at least one of the main three should have died at some point, to create more suspense or some rubbish. Problem there is that their survival is one of the most important components of a good-guy ending. Seen through Min's viewings when Rand and Perrin are together (little lights going into shadow). That said, if it wasn't crucial that they survived, it would have been nice for one of them - or at least one of the other peripherals to die.
  12. We've realised that part, but what if a patch with very little minerals (say, it had no iron but plenty of stone) came to the surface during a Breaking, and so became the main inhabited bit of land. There would obviously be some metal, and those sent up by volcanoes. The question was not why is there not ANY left, it was why is it impossible that there could be very little left in a large chunk of land recently uncovered? And then, how do you think civilisation could develop? Different question now.
  13. You see, this is the sortof reply I was looking for. What if a major continent was created, brought to the surface and not submerged in water after a breaking, and so obviously becomes the new habited and civilised centro, but that continent was one previously mined diligently by many, many Ages? You can say it won't happen, but please, humour me. AND! I'm talking Age of Legends style. I'm almost definite they would have mined deeper than 3.5 km.
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