What you dislike most about the series?

[Lama Chemist Ho]

and splitting a hair such as "the prologue is not a part of the series" = grasping at straws because it has nothing to do with your rebuked novel of speculations on why the editing process must be rushed / mistakes left in, which was supposed to be the point of the debate. now you are latching onto technicalities such as "oh, you don't capitalize" like a desperate man sliding off the edge of a cliff....lol maybe some more friends will show up to save you

 

there is ALWAYS enough time to get a job done RIGHT

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i suddenly feel the need to explain that my own lack of capitalization is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder, and has nothing to do with any artistic ambitions or political statements. i'd explain further, but that would be attempting to rationalize the irrational.

 

also, my typos are just typos, and my misspellings are sometimes typos and sometimes ignorance.

 

um, there was another thing. . . . oh yeah. . . when i first started interneting, and up until fairly recently, i thought smiley faces were just silly so i never used them. now, for some reason, they amuse me. i don't know why.

 

none of these idiosyncracies are intended to offend or annoy, so i hope anyone who bothers to read what i post will forgive my ridiculousness. believe me, it's much worse in person.

 

that is all.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

ou were taught that every sentence must begin with a capital letter, and so you accept and comply...whereas I question, revise and improve.

 

Ah yes. I see. So by your reasoning we should accept these so-called typos as revisions and improvements on the spellings of the words and slam your criticism of them as being like "an aes sedai who upholds stupid traditions such as deciding rank based on strength in the power, for better or worse simply because thats the way its always been done".

 

EPIC.FAIL.PERIOD.

 

Maybe some of your friends will show up to save you.

[Lama Chemist Ho]

another one who won't read! not that I blame them at least when it comes to this thread. no lapenque like I said, you should accept my failures to capitalize and punctuate because they are intentional (.....and clearly indicative of an artistry / genius superior beyond the scope of any mere human comprehension. so far beyond in fact as to seem not like that at all, to the untrained eye) and also not nearly as embarrassing and glaring as the typos in WoT, which once again are painfully obviously UNintentional. I'm glad you've chosen proper punctuation etc as your way (you haven't) but to me it's a waste of time

 

ninja'ed! (or something)

[anotherfingolfin]

another one who won't read! not that I blame them at least when it comes to this thread. no lapenque like I said, you should accept my failures to capitalize and punctuate because they are intentional (.....and clearly indicative of an artistry / genius superior beyond the scope of any mere human comprehension. so far beyond in fact as to seem not like that at all, to the untrained eye) and also not nearly as embarrassing and glaring as the typos in WoT, which once again are painfully obviously UNintentional. I'm glad you've chosen proper punctuation etc as your way (you haven't) but to me it's a waste of time

 

ninja'ed! (or something)

 

you a hipster or something? (and i use that term as mockery. though ironically, i don't mean to offend.)

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

you a hipster or something? (and i use that term as mockery. though ironically, i don't mean to offend.)

 

The good Chemist is having a joke at the expense of those too foolish or prideful to refuse the bait.

[lilltempest]

another one who won't read! not that I blame them at least when it comes to this thread. no lapenque like I said, you should accept my failures to capitalize and punctuate because they are intentional (.....and clearly indicative of an artistry / genius superior beyond the scope of any mere human comprehension. so far beyond in fact as to seem not like that at all, to the untrained eye) and also not nearly as embarrassing and glaring as the typos in WoT, which once again are painfully obviously UNintentional. I'm glad you've chosen proper punctuation etc as your way (you haven't) but to me it's a waste of time

 

ninja'ed! (or something)

 

you a hipster or something? (and i use that term as mockery. though ironically, i don't mean to offend.)

 

Maybe he thinks he's ee cummings. I had one of those in a WoT RPG I run. He knew how to punctuate and use proper grammar (I saw that much in other things he had written). He simply chose not to do so in our group. At first, it annoyed me. Then I started making fun of him for it and nicknamed him "ee cummings".

[Clayden69]

What you dislike most about the series?

 

having to wait for the final volume!!

 

and coming on to this site and finding out that "outrigger novels"(with certain characters in the WoT book appearing ater LB) had been announced before the books are finished, essentially telling us that the Light will win. i was hoping that i was finally going to read series of books that finishes with the Dark-side having "ultimate victory". i thought this might happen as when u first read the books there are plenty of twists and turns in the plot and i thought that would be the ultimate twist. and also thought that with the lack of death amongst the good guys i was hoping that would b twisted round in the LB and that there would b an absolute bloodbath.

 

i know the outriggers coud have been announced years and years ago but i first picked up a WoT novel 18 months ago and started using this site very recently so it is NEWs to me. :angry:

[Mr Ares]

lol many nice burns in that. yes.....you were taught that every sentence must begin with a capital letter, and so you accept and comply...whereas I question, revise and improve.

I fail to see why it's any better to simply do stuff differently for the sake of it. An unthinking rejeton of tradition is just as unthinking as an unthinking acceptance of it.

 

 

and splitting a hair such as "the prologue is not a part of the series" = grasping at straws because it has nothing to do with your rebuked novel of speculations on why the editing process must be rushed / mistakes left in, which was supposed to be the point of the debate. now you are latching onto technicalities such as "oh, you don't capitalize" like a desperate man sliding off the edge of a cliff....lol maybe some more friends will show up to save you

 

there is ALWAYS enough time to get a job done RIGHT

George R.R. Martin took damn near six years to do the job right on ADWD. An awful lot of people have complained in the meantime about how long it's taken - especially after the five years he took to make sure AFFC was done right ended up with a book often regarded as the least in the series. The prequel (a prologue is something quite different, though I suppose your error in this regard is as a result of your artistry) is not a part of the series, but my argument does not rest on that point. My points might have been rebuked, but they have not been refuted. On that point I cannot fault your use of language. A perfectly chosen word (though I would hazard I'm a little short of a novel's worth of speculation - a novelette at worst).

[RyanL24]

Well, Christmas is a holiday celebrated every year on the 25th of December. Giving gifts to others at this time of year is traditional, and consequently the run up to Christmas is one of the busiest times of the year for retail.

 

It's hard to argue with that. I do know where you're coming from. I just think you should give the WOT more respect.

 

Upon its release, Crossroads of Twilight immediately rose to the #1 position on the New York Times hardcover fiction bestseller list, making it just the third Wheel of Time book to reach the #1 position on that list.

 

 

I know you think that WOT fans are destitute creatures who can't possibly save up $20 over the course of a year so they could buy the new book when it comes out. So you'll probably argue that CoT only did so well while being released in January because the peasants still had a little Christmas money left. I think it's because WOT fans do have $20 and get the book on or as close to the day it comes out as they can. Any time of year.

 

 

 

 

And while you don't think New Spring is a part of the series, everybody else does. For example, if you go to wiki, under "books in the series" it's right there, the first book. If you go to wot wikia, you can read things like "CoT consists of a prologue, 30 chapters, and an epilogue. LoC, KoD, and New Spring are the only other Wheel of Time books to have an epilogue." If you go to Dragonmount home page and click books, there is a list of "The Wheel of Time books", and it made the list. Go to your favorite character list, and there are people there who only appear in NS. For the characters like Lan and Moiraine, you can look at their pages and what they did in NS is included with all of the rest. If I go to my library's site and search under "series" for "wheel of time" New Spring is one of the search results. If, in your mind, you would like to consider it an imaginary book, by all means, I won't hold you back.

[SuperFade]

What? How is New Spring not a part of the series? It's set in the WoTverse, deals with events central to the main series and contains many of the same characters. I fail to see how it doesn't count.

[RyanL24]

What? How is New Spring not a part of the series? It's set in the WoTverse, deals with events central to the main series and contains many of the same characters. I fail to see how it doesn't count.

 

I am excited to see what condescending remarks we will get from Mr Ares. I'm sure it has to do with the phrase "series proper". He'll be here soon to explain it to us like we're 5 years old. Like the time he explained to me what Christmas is.

 

I thought about the post all day yesterday though. My daughter is almost 2, and we took her to some stables. All day she kept saying "Hi horse!" but I kept hearing "high horse". (true story)

[UncleButcher1980]

And while you don't think New Spring is a part of the series, everybody else does.

 

Not everyone!

 

 

What? How is New Spring not a part of the series? It's set in the WoTverse, deals with events central to the main series and contains many of the same characters. I fail to see how it doesn't count.

 

 

I'm sure Mr Ares could explain this much more eloquently than me, but while the New Spring story is certainly connected to the main series, it isn't necessary to it. Al least, it's not necessary for us to read about it. It provides useful but not vital background information, hence the name prequel. The Hobbit is set in Middle Earth, and contains events and characters central to The Lord of the Rings, but that doesn't make it part of The Lord of the Rings.

[jahnfriederik]

For the first like... 6 books I think. maybe more, maybe less. the first third of the book was nothingness. it was a catch up from the last book but for a good 200 to 300 pages (for example: rand in tear after callendor.. gahhhh) I remember telling my boyfriend at the time "oh sweet!! its finally to the part of the story when something happens". i understand that some people had to wait for it to come out and so some things are needed to remind what has happened, but that is just way too much of the book to make me happy. it did start to go away though...

 

BUT the other thing i dislike about the books is the repetition in some descriptions. stone faced. aes sedai agelessness. tugging her braid. looking down at the nub where his left hand used to be. colors swirling EVERY TIME. the repetition drives me crazy. thesaurus people! sanderson uses the word "tempest" WAY too much. i understood in the gathering storm but there's no need for the over use of the word in ToM.

Haha I wrote the exact same thing (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/61366-thoughts-on-towers-of-midnight/) about repetition. I was getting all insecure too about criticizing RJ on this forum. But it's true. I don't know if they do it for consistency and reinforcement, like a character's catchphrase or something, or just because it's always at the top of the page with notes on those characters (:p).

[Mr Ares]

Well, Christmas is a holiday celebrated every year on the 25th of December. Giving gifts to others at this time of year is traditional, and consequently the run up to Christmas is one of the busiest times of the year for retail.

 

It's hard to argue with that. I do know where you're coming from. I just think you should give the WOT more respect.

 

Upon its release, Crossroads of Twilight immediately rose to the #1 position on the New York Times hardcover fiction bestseller list, making it just the third Wheel of Time book to reach the #1 position on that list.

 

 

I know you think that WOT fans are destitute creatures who can't possibly save up $20 over the course of a year so they could buy the new book when it comes out. So you'll probably argue that CoT only did so well while being released in January because the peasants still had a little Christmas money left. I think it's because WOT fans do have $20 and get the book on or as close to the day it comes out as they can. Any time of year.

WoT fans are a large and diverse group. Many will buy on day of release, undoubtedly - I never questioned that. But not all of them will. That's a simple fact. There are people on these boards toaday who have not yet read ToM - because they are waiting for the paperback, because they've not had time, whatever reason. Are they not fans? Your comments have a remarkable tendency to not relate to what I'm saying save in a rather tangential fashion.

 

And while you don't think New Spring is a part of the series, everybody else does.

Then everyone else is wrong. UncleButcher has the right of it - while New Spring is connected to the series (it's a prequel, after all) it is not a part of it, any more than the BWB is. And if we count the BWB as well, then WoT is at least 16 books - and why stop there? The RPG must surely be a part of the series! No, WoT is a series, currently intended to be fourteen books, beginning with EotW, concluding with AMoL. Those books are all part of the series, other related works are not.

[Cybertrolloc]

Mr Ares' posts shouldn't be that hard to understand: Just read them in Christopher Lee's Saruman voice and you'll get it.

 

Can't think of any canon from NS contradicting the main sequence novels, but there isn't that much overlap up to tGS (AS test and what little I can recall of Kandor in the regular series of course). It's better reading than the Perrin chapters of CoT at least :)

 

-----

 

I work in a field where spelling something that ends in ene with ine can kill you and anyone that happens to be breathing the same air as you. Pays a lot less than editing major novels too. Well, life didn't come with a fairness guarantee.

 

----

 

So what's the topic again? Hmm. Probably something to do with plot sprawl or plotting in general.

[SuperFade]

The Hobbit is set in Middle Earth, and contains events and characters central to The Lord of the Rings, but that doesn't make it part of The Lord of the Rings.

 

The Hobbit is a special case since it was written before Lord of the Rings. In fact in later versions Tolkien went back and retroactively changed Gollum's personality so that he was less helpful towards Bilbo in order to make him fit in with his characterisation in Lord of the Rings. The Lord of the Rings is a sequel to The Hobbit rather than a prequel.

 

Then everyone else is wrong. UncleButcher has the right of it - while New Spring is connected to the series (it's a prequel, after all) it is not a part of it, any more than the BWB is. And if we count the BWB as well, then WoT is at least 16 books - and why stop there? The RPG must surely be a part of the series! No, WoT is a series, currently intended to be fourteen books, beginning with EotW, concluding with AMoL. Those books are all part of the series, other related works are not.

 

Something being a side story does not mean it isn't part of the series. Is New Spring required reading to understand the rest of the series? No. But so what? It provides background and details not mentioned in the main series. It's set in the same universe. It's listed on the series list in the front pages of every WoT book. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it's set in the WoTverse it's part of the series.

[capuga]

Then everyone else is wrong. UncleButcher has the right of it - while New Spring is connected to the series (it's a prequel, after all) it is not a part of it, any more than the BWB is. And if we count the BWB as well, then WoT is at least 16 books - and why stop there? The RPG must surely be a part of the series! No, WoT is a series, currently intended to be fourteen books, beginning with EotW, concluding with AMoL. Those books are all part of the series, other related works are not.

 

Something being a side story does not mean it isn't part of the series. Is New Spring required reading to understand the rest of the series? No. But so what? It provides background and details not mentioned in the main series. It's set in the same universe. It's listed on the series list in the front pages of every WoT book. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it's set in the WoTverse it's part of the series.

 

Then why doesn't ToM say Book Fourteen of The Wheel of Time? Because it's only Book 13 of main series just like it says right on the cover.

[Hybrid]

Then everyone else is wrong. UncleButcher has the right of it - while New Spring is connected to the series (it's a prequel, after all) it is not a part of it, any more than the BWB is. And if we count the BWB as well, then WoT is at least 16 books - and why stop there? The RPG must surely be a part of the series! No, WoT is a series, currently intended to be fourteen books, beginning with EotW, concluding with AMoL. Those books are all part of the series, other related works are not.

 

Something being a side story does not mean it isn't part of the series. Is New Spring required reading to understand the rest of the series? No. But so what? It provides background and details not mentioned in the main series. It's set in the same universe. It's listed on the series list in the front pages of every WoT book. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it's set in the WoTverse it's part of the series.

 

Then why doesn't ToM say Book Fourteen of The Wheel of Time? Because it's only Book 13 of main series just like it says right on the cover.

 

Clearly because New Spring is Book 0, and Strike at Shayol Ghul is Book -0.25.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

in school we spent a good deal of time on the talmudic book betzah, which means egg. it's a collection of debates and arguments, in this particular book mostly about eggs, spanning many years, possibly centuries, among various rabbis and schools of rabbinical thought.

 

yup, eggs. whether this egg laid on that day following that other day was kosher, etc., whether you could eat such an egg, or use it to hold up an uneven corner of a bed, whether your economic status made a difference in the egg verdict, etc. etc. etc.

 

so when i see arguments like this go on and on and on, i gain a little more insight into how the talmudic rabbis managed to argue about eggs for so long.

 

in the talmud's case, the law goes according to the opinion of the house of hillel.

 

here, i'd say the law goes according to the opinion of mark grayson. (i'm a fan, mr. ares, but i see you more as a house shamai kinda person).

 

or, you know, luckers or yoniy0. they never would have let that egg thing get so out of hand.

[Puny]

I´m a huge fan of WoT and I haven´t read ToM yet, just the prologue. I can wait abit more since I´m doing a reread. Not every fan jumps on the books when they come out. I need to read some other books too <3

 

Another thing I dislike... well would like to have more of is food and desserts! I think it´s interesting to know what people eat. They gotta eat something else then bread and cheese and mutton. It´s not a huge dislike.. more a puny one.

[Hybrid]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

[Puny]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

[ironisles]

Other dislikes: Darrell K. Sweet

 

+1

 

That was so obvious I forgot to mention it. Terrible covers =/

 

Sweet used to do great covers.. I don't know why these ones are just.. bad.. no other word for it.

The cover for TEotw doesn't look too bad. Moiraine looks like a woman. But on say TFoH and TGS egad Avi just looks..inhuman or something.

[Lama Chemist Ho]

The good Chemist

ee cummings

please... call me Ho or ho

 

it's not just HERE that I won't capitalize, it's EVERYwhere (excepting only the most formal situations like when I take over proofreading WoT). you know why, cuz it's redundant! all you need is the "." period! anything more is not only a waste of time but an exercise in gullibility. the capital and the extra space are like added safeguards for the stupid / blind / can't read. they are like having training wheels on your bike your whole life! take them off dammit, ride free! it's so much more liberating and fulfilling. not having to flex your fingers all far to hold down extra keys for no reason. don't knock it til you've tried it! only proper nouns are an exception, because it sometimes changes the meaning (ie creator or Creator, etc)

 

"you have to do it like this for no reason except cuz we all do"

 

"ok" (baah)

 

(that was supposed to be a sheep!) yes the craic here has been sufficient

 

Traditions should not be maintained just because they were traditions.

~Towers of Midnight

 

George R.R. Martin took damn near six years to do the job right

ONE WEEK man! in ONE WEEK I said, I will fix every typo for you, no matter how many there are to begin with!

 

while the New Spring story is certainly connected to the main series, it isn't necessary to it.

neither is Crossroads of Twilight!!

 

alright I have no further comments on whether the original series of 3 was milked into either 14, or 15 books (or more) as its irrelevant. altho its starting to look like "more" as isn't there also a guidebook or something, and what did that previous poster say back there about "outriggers" planned...? the original point was how the commercial success of a thing leads to the commissioning of more crap to sell, and "OH WELL" if the quality of the subsequent crap is nowhere near that of the original crap (ie Crossroads of Twilight)