Least Favorite Character

[pepe Al'thor]

Many people hate Faile for her relationship with Perrin, but i find Elayne so frustrating and annoying that it actually has made me like the Perrin Faile relationship, at least Faile can be a bad ass when she needs to be.

 

At least Faile can be bad ass? What would you call saving the entire world by fixing te weather, unifiting Andor etc. They are operating slightly different levels.

 

 

Sure Elayne does some neat things throughout the series, she's a huge character but the arrogant hot headed prego she turns into from pretty much Book 9 on wards makes me put Faile above her in terms of least favorite character, ya Faile has her annoying moments throughout the series to but Elayne dwarfs all that for me... its like....

 

Book 9: Faile's getting annoying, Elayne bitching about Rand

Book 10: Elayne bitching about being pregnant

Book 11: Faile starts to get cool again, Elayne still bitching about being pregnant

 

and so on

 

Now, if you want to ignore annoyance/hatred towards characters, then sure Elayne is much more interesting to read about then Faile turning Perrin into whipped cream.

[b3arz3rg3r]

And @ SuperFade, technically, it is directly on topic. We're discussing least favorite character, the title of the post.

 

And the subtitle of the topic explicitly excludes Egwene / Faile from the discussion, specifically because they are always brought up and always result in a derail. Such as this one, which is devolving into yet another tired discussion over whether Egwene was justified in opposing Rand.

 

Subtitle?

 

Did I miss that? The Original Post doesn't have anything about that on it, (Unless I have something turned off and I can't see "subtitles")

 

The topic should read "Least Favorite Character", with "Not just Faile or Egwene, guys!" underneath it.

 

The topic doesn't exclude Egwene and Faile, all it says is people shouldn't focus just on them. And personally I never had anything against Faile.

 

ok guys give me a couple of days and I'll start a comprehensive thread on eggy dearest it seems that I have some time on my hand be ready to be disabused of some of the notions

 

Again I ask, why would you feel the need to start one? Eggy/AS hate threads are just about the single most prevalent topic there is. You can choose to revive any number of old ones and that way people can cite what has come before.

 

Perhaps there should be a rule that before one is allowed to make a new Eggy thread one has to read the hundreds of pages in the various threads on her beforehand. After plowing through all that I doubt anyone would have any desire to start a new one. No matter how much one hates or loves her it just doesn't matter any more after all that.

 

Many people hate Faile for her relationship with Perrin, but i find Elayne so frustrating and annoying that it actually has made me like the Perrin Faile relationship, at least Faile can be a bad ass when she needs to be.

 

At least Faile can be bad ass? What would you call saving the entire world by fixing te weather, unifiting Andor etc. They are operating slightly different levels.

 

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

[Vardar]

Perhaps there should be a rule that before one is allowed to make a new Eggy thread one has to read the hundreds of pages in the various threads on her beforehand. After plowing through all that I doubt anyone would have any desire to start a new one. No matter how much one hates or loves her it just doesn't matter any more after all that.

 

Damn it that read like a challenge in my head! Now I must read them all and see if I retain the urge.

[Suttree]

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

 

Shrug. People are going to perceive scenes in various ways based on character bias of course. Not going to pull quotes on this topic as I really don't care either way but there are plenty of examples. It's bad ass in itself that she went out on her own and didn't rely on Rand to hand her the city(yes I know his occupation as regent helped) and things in Ebou Dar such as her courage unraveling the gateway count as well. Bottom line however you can't argue with results. Not sure how anyone could make the argument that Elayne isn't ever bad ass when she needs to be.

[Vardar]

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

 

Shrug. People are going to perceive scenes in various ways based on character bias of course. Not going to pull quotes on this topic as I really don't care either way but there are plenty of examples. It's bad ass in itself that she went out on her own and didn't rely on Rand to hand her the city(yes I know his occupation as regent helped) and things in Ebou Dar such as her courage unraveling the gateway count as well. Bottom line however you can't argue with results. Not sure how anyone could make the argument that Elayne isn't ever bad ass when she needs to be.

 

Ya know, that was one thing she did that actually made me mad. Her anger at Rand for "presuming" to hand her something pissed me the hell off. Mostly because I viewed it as another exmaple of women expecting men to know something when they never told them about it. I took that personal, but it made no damn sense.

[Suttree]

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

 

Shrug. People are going to perceive scenes in various ways based on character bias of course. Not going to pull quotes on this topic as I really don't care either way but there are plenty of examples. It's bad ass in itself that she went out on her own and didn't rely on Rand to hand her the city(yes I know his occupation as regent helped) and things in Ebou Dar such as her courage unraveling the gateway count as well. Bottom line however you can't argue with results. Not sure how anyone could make the argument that Elayne isn't ever bad ass when she needs to be.

 

Ya know, that was one thing she did that actually made me mad. Her anger at Rand for "presuming" to hand her something pissed me the hell off. Mostly because I viewed it as another exmaple of women expecting men to know something when they never told them about it. I took that personal, but it made no damn sense.

 

Culturally for Andor it is a pretty big thing. They call it a "self evident truth" that the throne can not be handed over by a man. With that in mind it made her job much more difficult when he announced his intentions. He should have known at the least it would undermine her authority if she was perceived as the DR's "puppet". Also the vibe in the country was very much anti-DR at the time. Nobles vowed to band together to attempt to drive him out if he overstayed his welcome and the general populace viewed him as a foreign invader whose place was at SG not Caemlyn. Even an outsider like Bashere muses on why it is imperative that she doesn't use the Aiel or Borderlandes to secure the city.

[Vardar]

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

 

Shrug. People are going to perceive scenes in various ways based on character bias of course. Not going to pull quotes on this topic as I really don't care either way but there are plenty of examples. It's bad ass in itself that she went out on her own and didn't rely on Rand to hand her the city(yes I know his occupation as regent helped) and things in Ebou Dar such as her courage unraveling the gateway count as well. Bottom line however you can't argue with results. Not sure how anyone could make the argument that Elayne isn't ever bad ass when she needs to be.

 

Ya know, that was one thing she did that actually made me mad. Her anger at Rand for "presuming" to hand her something pissed me the hell off. Mostly because I viewed it as another exmaple of women expecting men to know something when they never told them about it. I took that personal, but it made no damn sense.

 

Culturally for Andor it is a pretty big thing. They call it a "self evident truth" that the throne can not be handed over by a man. With that in mind it made her job much more difficult when he announced his intentions. He should have known at the least it would undermine her authority if she was perceived as the DR's "puppet". Also the vibe in the country was very much anti-DR at the time. Nobles vowed to band together to attempt to drive him out if he overstayed his welcome and the general populace viewed him as a foreign invader whose place was at SG not Caemlyn. Even an outsider like Bashere muses on why it is imperative that she doesn't use the Aiel or Borderlandes to secure the city.

 

Oh I understand about the anti-DR hate, it just doesn't make much sense to me for her to be mad at him, although actually I'll go a step further and say the entire DR hate is stupid.

 

Oh thanks for saving us from the next to supreme evil in the world and keeping peace, but umm, how about you go about your way right now and leave us to go to war for the throne. If we finish fighting, whoever else is alive MIGHT decide to assist you with saving the world. Maybe....

 

It's laughable. They all give nobels a pretty bad name honestly. This man saved our country, can we at least respect him enough to wait for the heir to the throne to arrive so we can then battle and decide who gets the throne? I mean, she was the rightful ruler, so he was just holding it (Since they allthought Mograse was dead).

[Suttree]

It's laughable. They all give nobels a pretty bad name honestly. This man saved our country, can we at least respect him enough to wait for the heir to the throne to arrive so we can then battle and decide who gets the throne? I mean, she was the rightful ruler, so he was just holding it (Since they allthought Mograse was dead).

 

But she wasn't the rightfull ruler until she received the necesarry votes from the High Seats. That was part of what rubbed people wrong when he announced his intent.

[Vardar]

It's laughable. They all give nobels a pretty bad name honestly. This man saved our country, can we at least respect him enough to wait for the heir to the throne to arrive so we can then battle and decide who gets the throne? I mean, she was the rightful ruler, so he was just holding it (Since they allthought Mograse was dead).

 

But she wasn't the rightfull ruler until she received the necesarry votes from the High Seats. That was part of what rubbed people wrong when he announced his intent.

 

I thought there was an Heir thing, like when Tigrane dissapeared, she left no heir therefore the succession began. Remember they refused to call it a war of succession at first because Elayne should succeed her mother, but they assumed Elayne was dead, thus the vote thing. (I may be confused on that last part, but I know Daughter should succeed mother)

[shortkut]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

[shortkut]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

[muddasssir]

well I am not going to quote anything but one of the main attractions for me in this series was that the main protagonist was the most feared person for 3000 years

[muddasssir]

well yes that also confused me, but in my opinion and mind it is just my opinion I have not seen anything in the text that supports it. You have to be there or stake your claimn within a given time frame otherwise it is open for taking.

[Suttree]

It's laughable. They all give nobels a pretty bad name honestly. This man saved our country, can we at least respect him enough to wait for the heir to the throne to arrive so we can then battle and decide who gets the throne? I mean, she was the rightful ruler, so he was just holding it (Since they allthought Mograse was dead).

 

But she wasn't the rightfull ruler until she received the necesarry votes from the High Seats. That was part of what rubbed people wrong when he announced his intent.

 

I thought there was an Heir thing, like when Tigrane dissapeared, she left no heir therefore the succession began. Remember they refused to call it a war of succession at first because Elayne should succeed her mother, but they assumed Elayne was dead, thus the vote thing. (I may be confused on that last part, but I know Daughter should succeed mother)

 

Yes of course and sorry for not being more clear. I was referring to this specific circumstance not their overall tradition.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Sadly Elayne really wasn't badass when she unified Andor and in the Ebou Dar arc she mostly distinguished herself by being particularly aggravating.

 

Shrug. People are going to perceive scenes in various ways based on character bias of course. Not going to pull quotes on this topic as I really don't care either way but there are plenty of examples. It's bad ass in itself that she went out on her own and didn't rely on Rand to hand her the city(yes I know his occupation as regent helped) and things in Ebou Dar such as her courage unraveling the gateway count as well. Bottom line however you can't argue with results. Not sure how anyone could make the argument that Elayne isn't ever bad ass when she needs to be.

 

I'm not arguing about results. She did achieve results of that there is no doubt. But did she do so in a badass manner? No way. Elayne just can't pull off badass, she just isn't the character for badass moves. I think you mistake brave for badass. They aren't the same, not by a long shot.

[David Selig]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

Because Jordan retconned how gaining the Lion Throne works, at least this is my theory. There are no hints that it's elective monarchy in the first 6 books, in fact the Glossaries of those books state pretty much the opposite in the entry for Daughter-Heir:

"Daughter-Heir: Title of the heir to the Lion Throne of Andor. Without a surviving daughter, the throne goes to the nearest female blood relation of the Queen. "

Nothing about any election of the Queen among the nobles.

[Maleshub]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

Because Jordan retconned how gaining the Lion Throne works, at least this is my theory. There are no hints that it's elective monarchy in the first 6 books, in fact the Glossaries of those books state pretty much the opposite in the entry for Daughter-Heir:

"of the Queen. "

Nothing about any election of the Queen among the nobles.

 

I always understood the votes as the means to choose a Queen when there is no Daughter-Heir to the last Queen. But if the Daughter-Heir was there, there would be no votes, just a simple coronation ceremony.

[Luckers]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

Because Jordan retconned how gaining the Lion Throne works, at least this is my theory. There are no hints that it's elective monarchy in the first 6 books, in fact the Glossaries of those books state pretty much the opposite in the entry for Daughter-Heir:

"of the Queen. "

Nothing about any election of the Queen among the nobles.

 

I always understood the votes as the means to choose a Queen when there is no Daughter-Heir to the last Queen. But if the Daughter-Heir was there, there would be no votes, just a simple coronation ceremony.

 

The idea is that if there is a Daughter-Heir, the votes are just a formality--they do still have them, but it will only go against the Daughter-Heir if she is dangerously incompetant.

[Maleshub]

If she doesn't inherit the throne after her movies's death, then how could she be called the daughter-heir?

Because Jordan retconned how gaining the Lion Throne works, at least this is my theory. There are no hints that it's elective monarchy in the first 6 books, in fact the Glossaries of those books state pretty much the opposite in the entry for Daughter-Heir:

"of the Queen. "

Nothing about any election of the Queen among the nobles.

 

I always understood the votes as the means to choose a Queen when there is no Daughter-Heir to the last Queen. But if the Daughter-Heir was there, there would be no votes, just a simple coronation ceremony.

 

The idea is that if there is a Daughter-Heir, the votes are just a formality--they do still have them, but it will only go against the Daughter-Heir if she is dangerously incompetant.

 

Thanks for the information and explanation.

[avernite]

Indeed, I'd liken it to the Holy Roman Empire after, say, 1648. The whole war started about 'could the protestants elect a different Emperor?' to which the answer became no. There was still an election, but the Habsburg candidate always won anyway... except when the Habsburg candidate was a woman. I'd like this to 'the daughter-heir always wins anyway... except when none is available'. The fact that Trakand had only just gotten the throne probably helped in that regard, if they'd been on the throne for 6 generations everyone would be more likely to await confirmation on Elayne's status.

[Kahsm]

ok guys give me a couple of days and I'll start a comprehensive thread on eggy dearest it seems that I have some time on my hand be ready to be disabused of some of the notions

 

Again I ask, why would you feel the need to start one? Eggy/AS hate threads are just about the single most prevalent topic there is. You can choose to revive any number of old ones and that way people can cite what has come before.

ok guys give me a couple of days and I'll start a comprehensive thread on eggy dearest it seems that I have some time on my hand be ready to be disabused of some of the notions

 

Again I ask, why would you feel the need to start one? Eggy/AS hate threads are just about the single most prevalent topic there is. You can choose to revive any number of old ones and that way people can cite what has come before.

 

Bumped a good 20 page long thread on Egwene hate under structured you can use. Though i'm sure most of what you have to say is probably already there and refuted and then restarted and refuted again.

[Steven Holland]

Egwene, Faile and the Trakand's is mostly what im seeing from most people. I think there all fine characters, Faile could be a bit less whiny and controlling but otherwise she is ok. I didn't mind Elida until she took over the tower, then i didn't hate her, i just skip any part of the books that are from her POV, completely annoying. The Sea Folk's only fault is there complete narrow minded approach to everyone who isn't Sea Folk. Cadsuane Melaidhrin is very annoying with the way she treats Rand, loved it when Rand put her in her place.

 

For me, Aviendah gets really up my nose. She could be a bit more compassionate towards Rand. Might seem like a small reason to dislike her, but it niggles at me non the less haha

[TheAngryDruid]

Tuon is my least favorite character, by a country mile. She has not grown or learned anything. She still seeks to attack the White Tower on the eve of Tarmon Gaidon, despite the fact she knows she is marath'damane herself.

 

Elayne has rediscovered how to make ter'angreal, helped find the Bowl of the Winds (and the subsequent righting of the weather), and won the throne of Andor. She's even done some good inadvertently by unweaving the Gateway. Now, granted, she's a bit lower on the "badass" scale than Moiraine, Nynaeve, or Egwene, but she's still been a part of foiling the Black Ajah in Tanchico and rescuing Egwene from the Seanchan at Falme. True, she's blundered into some traps (Liandrin's, Tear, and in Caemlyn due to her faith in Min's viewing, twice!), but many of the other characters have made similar mistakes.

 

Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

[David Selig]

Her biggest screw up was not realizing the Kin could just link and make the gateways. She didn't need the Sea Folk at all. That was just beyond stupid. And really, not believable that Elayne, nor any of the Aes Sedai, nor any of the Kin, nor Aviendha or the Aiel, (nor the Windfinders, for that matter) would think of it. One of the truly poor points in the entire series.

Yes, this was one of the most blatant example of Jordan's unfortunate tendency to have characters do implausibly dumb things just so the plot can move along in the planned direction. The Sea Folk had to stay so they could save Elayne later (and maybe there is still something planned for this square mile given up by Elayne), so this completely illogical scene happened. And in the next book we see the Kin linking and making Gateways all the time, but nobody remarks "you know what, this deal wasn't necessary."

[Scot Kraft]

Every single character lacking a penis. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. In every single female PoV in this series, the women look down upon men as a lesser life-form.

 

But having to pick out specific characters.....

 

Mazrim Taim.

No redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not 1. He was given trust, and uses it for evil. Maybe he is a forsaken in disguise. But honestly, if he is, then only Rands pure stupidity is keeping him from being completely obliterated. Fine, you want to make evil male channelers? A good plan I will grant..but doing it IN Rands school? At any point the whole thing has been going on, Rand COULD have stopped it with his army of aiel, loyal Asha'man and loyal Aes Sedai. He is only enjoying success because Rand is ignoring him for some reason. He couldn't have counted on this being the case, unless he IS one of the male forsaken and somehow hit Rand with an inverted compulsion weave to ignore him... However, if he DID do that, then why not just hit him with compulsion to go to Shayol'ghul and serve the dark one? lol.

 

Rand.

For the reasons listed above. S T U P I D.

 

Elayne.

If ever the female chauvinism was glaring through it is with this character. "I can't have outside help to take the throne. WAH WAH WAH"

First, all the rebel claimants have armies don't they? With nice Andoran leaders? Not every single person in the army is Andoran mind you, but the upper officers surely are. Last time I checked. RAND IS ANDORAN. So how does he qualify as outside help? He may be king of the freaking world, but he is STILL an Andoran.

Her stupidity about Mins viewing also irks me. Yes, Min said the babies would be born healthy...but at no point did she predict that their mother would have arms, legs or the capacity to think when that happens. That would be like me going to Washington and on the top of Mt. St. Helens while its smoking because someone (proven to be a prophet) predicted that it would erupt in the year 2050. Not saying that it WOULDN'T erupt before then, just that it would erupt then.

 

Perrin.

STOP BEING A WUSSY. You are a leader. GET OVER IT BI***.

 

Egwene.

Because men are retards and she is perfect. Or so she seems to think.

 

Faile.

Wait, I actually like Faile.

 

Nynaeve.

One of my favorite characters, I hated her the most, but her amazing growth in the last handful of books has landed me on team Nynaeve for sure.