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Himiko

Praise for Faile

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The only thing I have against Faile is her guilt trip she gives Loial and everything else involved getting Perrin through the Ways on the way to Emond's Field. Otherwise I"ve been kinda neutral on her.

 

Haven't we heard her feel sorry about this and admit her mistake? I cannot recall. As someone above said, at that point in time she is actually really young, and I think she has grown up a lot since then. I think she would readily apologize to Loial the next time she sees him.

 

On my first read of the series I loathed Faile and Perrin's relationship, and I found that after LoC the Perrin arc seemed to drag slower than slow. I also originally found the Egwene/Salidar/Murandy arc extremely slow and painful. Not to mention Matt traveling so slowly with Valan Luca out of Ebou Dar. However, during my first reread all of these arcs seemed a lot faster than I had remembered and I am no longer as much of a Faile/Egwene hater as I was originally. I think reading these arcs straight through and not having to wait 3 years helps significantly.

 

IMO Faile and Perrin are the perfect match, just like me and my wife :), we balance each other out. I considered working in some of Perrin's words to Faile in my vows but figured it was a little disingenuous.

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Faile is very, very young, the youngest of the main characters. I think you have to take that into account when reading her.

 

She is brave, she is clever, she is loyal, she is hot, and she is at least slightly kinky. What's not to like? It's not her fault her husband got all emo when she was missing. (Not really his fault, either, but that's a different thread.)

 

I don't even find the jealousy irritating; it's realistic. And, let's remember, it's not like she was imagining things where Berelain was concerned.

 

What I do find irritating is the hypocrisy. She's always insisting that Perrin step up to his responsibilities, right? From practically the first moment we meet her? But what did she do? She ran away, abandoning her own responsibilities, to seek adventure.

 

Her reason for running wasn't to get away from responsibility per se but from a life she didn't want. Had staying in Saldea satisfied her I am sure she would have jumped in with both feet.

 

That's pretty much the definition of running away from responsibility.

 

 

Well by your definition so did Rand, Perrin, Mat, Egwene, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Loial, Elayne, Min, Davrem Bashere, Logain, Mazrim Tiam, Renald Fanwar, Tuon, Almen Bunt, Gawyn, Galad, Gareth Bryne, Morgase, etc. Pretty much every character in the series has abandoned their home and responsibilities for adventure or a greater role in the Pattern. Faile just wants Perrin to stand up and be a man, but I guess it would have been more fun to read about him staying in bed all day and moping.

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Well by your definition so did Rand, Perrin, Mat, Egwene, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Loial, Elayne, Min, Davrem Bashere, Logain, Mazrim Tiam, Renald Fanwar, Tuon, Almen Bunt, Gawyn, Galad, Gareth Bryne, Morgase, etc. Pretty much every character in the series has abandoned their home and responsibilities for adventure or a greater role in the Pattern. Faile just wants Perrin to stand up and be a man, but I guess it would have been more fun to read about him staying in bed all day and moping.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt.

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Faile is my #2 most favorite female character in the series, with #1 being Min.

 

I dislike how many readers point out her "flaws", and how she's not "suitable for Perrin". It really reminds me of gossips who say that "so-and-so aren't suitable for each other", while not having the least bit of understanding of their relationship.

 

If people's personality traits could be described simply as "good" or "bad", then you can't find two characters with more opposite personalities than Min and Faile. Yet, they're both my favorite.

 

Why? Because people are not two dimensional. They aren't defined by their occasional temper bursts or bouts of irrationality/childishness. What so many people think are flaws with Faile actually manifest themselves as great strengths under the right circumstances.

 

Faile is terribly jealous? Well, she's also incredibly loyal to Perrin and protective of him. She has bouts of anger? She's also extremely passionate and dedicated. She does things behind Perrin's back? That's because she's also extremely intelligent and well-versed at the Great Game: an invaluable asset to Perrin in politics.

 

Faile and Perrin are a great match. Faile's impulsiveness is tempered by Perrin's methodicalness. Perrin keeps Faile from racing off a cliff (most of the time), and Faile prods Perrin into doing *good* things that he wouldn't otherwise do. Where Faile's skills in the Great Game are a great boon to Perrin, Perrin's incredible perceptiveness keeps Faile from overstepping her bounds.

 

Faile and Perrin's romance is the one that resonnates most with me, because we get to see it evolve.

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she's got alot of passion and unlike that fool perrin, she knows the responsibilities of being a leader. Without her, that wolf idiot would still moaning nabout how he does not want to lead.

 

sorry folks but i hate that guy so bad!! Being the best character in the first three boooks to this pathetic one in the latter part is just like a kick in the nuts

Edited by Elan Tedronai

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Fine, then she should pay back the common people of Tyr and Sidona for all of the money extorted from them to pay for her upbringing, education, clothing, etc.

 

THEN she is free to follow her bliss.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt terribly.

Edited by Kal11

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Fine, then she should pay back the common people of Tyr and Sidona for all of the money extorted from them to pay for her upbringing, education, clothing, etc.

 

THEN she is free to follow her bliss.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt terribly.

 

 

Faile is a noble. Nobles have obligations in exchange for the benefits they receive.

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Fine, then she should pay back the common people of Tyr and Sidona for all of the money extorted from them to pay for her upbringing, education, clothing, etc.

 

THEN she is free to follow her bliss.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt terribly.

 

 

Faile is a noble. Nobles have obligations in exchange for the benefits they receive.

 

Right. Such as all the Tairen, Cairheinen and other nobles that spend the majority of their time gambling, drinking and wenching. When they aren't spitting on and stringing up commoners for petty and arbitrary reasons of course. Just because someone is born to a certain station does not mean they are inherently indebted to maintain it (or deserve it for that matter). She did not run off and keep collecting benefits, she made a clean break.

 

The money you claim was extorted from the commoners was her father's anyhow, taxes were not collected or paid to her. He spent it as he saw fit in the upbringing of his children like any parent would. She also ran a number of his affairs until she left hence paying off her debts through work. So there.

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Fine, then she should pay back the common people of Tyr and Sidona for all of the money extorted from them to pay for her upbringing, education, clothing, etc.

 

THEN she is free to follow her bliss.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt terribly.

 

 

Faile is a noble. Nobles have obligations in exchange for the benefits they receive.

 

Right. Such as all the Tairen, Cairheinen and other nobles that spend the majority of their time gambling, drinking and wenching. When they aren't spitting on and stringing up commoners for petty and arbitrary reasons of course. Just because someone is born to a certain station does not mean they are inherently indebted to maintain it (or deserve it for that matter). She did not run off and keep collecting benefits, she made a clean break.

 

The money you claim was extorted from the commoners was her father's anyhow, taxes were not collected or paid to her. He spent it as he saw fit in the upbringing of his children like any parent would. She also ran a number of his affairs until she left hence paying off her debts through work. So there.

 

 

Oh, please. You don't even believe that.

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Fine, then she should pay back the common people of Tyr and Sidona for all of the money extorted from them to pay for her upbringing, education, clothing, etc.

 

THEN she is free to follow her bliss.

 

Logic so bad it makes my head hurt terribly.

 

 

Faile is a noble. Nobles have obligations in exchange for the benefits they receive.

 

Right. Such as all the Tairen, Cairheinen and other nobles that spend the majority of their time gambling, drinking and wenching. When they aren't spitting on and stringing up commoners for petty and arbitrary reasons of course. Just because someone is born to a certain station does not mean they are inherently indebted to maintain it (or deserve it for that matter). She did not run off and keep collecting benefits, she made a clean break.

 

The money you claim was extorted from the commoners was her father's anyhow, taxes were not collected or paid to her. He spent it as he saw fit in the upbringing of his children like any parent would. She also ran a number of his affairs until she left hence paying off her debts through work. So there.

 

 

Oh, please. You don't even believe that.

 

 

That is funny because I was thinking the same about you. For the record I do believe that, I don't think anyone should be forced into a lifestyle or position if they choose otherwise. What I said was perfectly reasonable and elaborated upon, you are just finding excuses to hate the character.

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um, so yeah, the topic. . . faile.

 

she's strong and , er. . . sassy? and smart and quite responsible for her age.

 

i don't see her as particularly jealous. she's not too wrong in her assessment of the situation. her response to berelain's flooziness is not over the top, and perrin's really been a dope about that whole deal. he can be described as not stupid as many times as RJ liked, but he isn't smart about the berelain thing. it's like an episode of i love lucy where ricky pretends he can't understand how lucy could possibly imagine he'd go for that showgirl he's obviously going for.

 

i agree that the love for the character was damaged by the extended captivity arc. she's a fine character. she just got written into a not so fine stretch of plot.

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That is funny because I was thinking the same about you. For the record I do believe that, I don't think anyone should be forced into a lifestyle or position if they choose otherwise. What I said was perfectly reasonable and elaborated upon, you are just finding excuses to hate the character.

 

As my initial post makes quite clear, I DON'T hate the character. But she is not a flawless human being, and one of the flaws she has is hypocrisy.

 

As for being forced into a lifestyle or position: She lived a life of great privilege by the sweat of other people's brows. She does owe them a moral debt. Ideally, there would be no hereditary nobility leaching off the hard-working commoners. But if there must be, then those nobles should for damn sure fulfill their end of the bargain.

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Faile herself felt guilty for running away from her responsibilities as a noble in Saldaea:

 

ToM, Ch. 16

 

Looking back at herself only a few years before, she was amazed to realize that she saw a spoiled, self-centered child. Leaving the Borderlands to become a Hunter for the Horn? She'd abandoned duties, home and family. What had she been thinking?

 

And the Borderlander nobles are not Tairen, they take their duties very seriously. That's part of the reason she works so hard in her new role as Perrin's wife and Lady of Two Rivers.

 

Anyway, apart from the jealousy, which though understandable given Berelain's behaviour, is quite annoying, I like Faile's personality. Not her fault that her captivity plotline took ages and her husband became a whiny emo after he met her. She's smart, brave and work hard to help Perrin, in fact she does most of the real work apart from the battles, while Perrin is busy brooding and whining.

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she's got alot of passion and unlike that fool perrin, she knows the responsibilities of being a leader. Without her, that wolf idiot would still moaning nabout how he does not want to lead.

 

sorry folks but i hate that guy so bad!! Being the best character in the first three boooks to this pathetic one in the latter part is just like a kick in the nuts

 

 

i feel the same, except that i feel like it is all because of faile that perrin's character becomes so unbearable. every time i read "anything for faile" i want to vomit. the character of perrin had so much promise, it's upsetting to see him turn into this. he's the only character of the three main guys that is so very associated with his counter part. min, elayne, aviendha, tuon. they don't define rand and mat the way that faile and perrin do. it's not about perrin helping save the world, its about his horrible relationship. seriously, where did my hugable teddy bear go :(

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I find Perrin's "Anything for Faile, and the world can go to hell before I let her come to harm!" attitude grating at times, too. But, sorry, the blame lies on Perrin's shoulders for that. He's very in love with Faile, that's how he sees her. I imagine he would have the same attitude had he fallen in love with any other woman in the series- Berelain, Alliandre, Egwene, Nynaeve, anyone. Its simply how he is. Its not necessarily a good thing, and he does feel bad about it afterwards, as I recall, but I don't blame Faile for it.

 

I think Perrin and Faile are possibly the "closest" relationship in the series, which might explain Perrin's very strong attachment to, and determination when it comes to his wife. Not to imply that the other characters love each other less, but the two of them have been married since Book 4, spent time together in the Two Rivers, have been together for a lot of the time since then, and work very closely together. There is Faile's capture, of course, by the Shaido, and various other points at which they are separated, but apart from the Shaido arc, they're together for the majority of the time, across a large part of the series. Its not so surprising that Perrin felt lost without her.

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Thank you, David. I wanted to point that out but don't have ToM here, and so couldn't have proved it.

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I find Perrin's "Anything for Faile, and the world can go to hell before I let her come to harm!" attitude grating at times, too. But, sorry, the blame lies on Perrin's shoulders for that. He's very in love with Faile, that's how he sees her. I imagine he would have the same attitude had he fallen in love with any other woman in the series- Berelain, Alliandre, Egwene, Nynaeve, anyone. Its simply how he is. Its not necessarily a good thing, and he does feel bad about it afterwards, as I recall, but I don't blame Faile for it.

 

I think Perrin and Faile are possibly the "closest" relationship in the series, which might explain Perrin's very strong attachment to, and determination when it comes to his wife. Not to imply that the other characters love each other less, but the two of them have been married since Book 4, spent time together in the Two Rivers, have been together for a lot of the time since then, and work very closely together. There is Faile's capture, of course, by the Shaido, and various other points at which they are separated, but apart from the Shaido arc, they're together for the majority of the time, across a large part of the series. Its not so surprising that Perrin felt lost without her.

 

Also, Faile is all Perrin has left, his entire family having been slaughtered.

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On 5/31/2011 at 11:20 AM, solarz said:

Faile is my #2 most favorite female character in the series, with #1 being Min.

 

I dislike how many readers point out her "flaws", and how she's not "suitable for Perrin". It really reminds me of gossips who say that "so-and-so aren't suitable for each other", while not having the least bit of understanding of their relationship.

 

If people's personality traits could be described simply as "good" or "bad", then you can't find two characters with more opposite personalities than Min and Faile. Yet, they're both my favorite.

 

Why? Because people are not two dimensional. They aren't defined by their occasional temper bursts or bouts of irrationality/childishness. What so many people think are flaws with Faile actually manifest themselves as great strengths under the right circumstances.

 

Faile is terribly jealous? Well, she's also incredibly loyal to Perrin and protective of him. She has bouts of anger? She's also extremely passionate and dedicated. She does things behind Perrin's back? That's because she's also extremely intelligent and well-versed at the Great Game: an invaluable asset to Perrin in politics.

 

Faile and Perrin are a great match. Faile's impulsiveness is tempered by Perrin's methodicalness. Perrin keeps Faile from racing off a cliff (most of the time), and Faile prods Perrin into doing *good* things that he wouldn't otherwise do. Where Faile's skills in the Great Game are a great boon to Perrin, Perrin's incredible perceptiveness keeps Faile from overstepping her bounds.

 

Faile and Perrin's romance is the one that resonnates most with me, because we get to see it evolve.

Min and Faile are very different personalities, but both are exactly what their man needs.  MIn is there to remind Rand that despite his godlike abilities and responsibilities he is still a man and needs to stay in touch with his humanity.  By contrast Perrin lacks confidence in his ability and right to lead. Faile helps him be the man he is destined to be by having more faith in him than he has in himself.  Her methods aren't always ideal and sometimes infuriating, but part of that is cultural and part of it is no actual relationship is ideal. Rand-Min and Perrin-Faile were the two relationships in the books that seemed most real.  Jordan kind of sucked at writing relationships, but these two he got right,

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Faile begins as a self-centered person, which is probably a consequence of his aristocratic heritage. I understand that because of such behavior, some readers do not like her.
It is important to me that she has grown up as a character. She had admitted her flaw and confronted them. It is something; many female leaders was not able.

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On 2/29/2020 at 9:31 AM, LucasBall said:

This character has so beautiful and exciting arc. I didn't like it in the beginning, but later in the process I fell in love.

Sneaky little spam-bots. 
I shoulda known that this was a bot by this comment alone. rofl.

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