Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Rand and Egwene at the FOM


USURP888
 Share

Recommended Posts

When Rand and Egwene finally meets at the Field of Merrilor. I am curious as to who will side with Rand and who Egwene.

 

The people that I am sure would be on Rand's side would be Nynaeve, Mat, Cadsuane and Min.

The Clan Chiefs will side with Rand because he is the Caracarn and the Borderlanders because they know "He will break what He must break".

 

The rest I am not so sure about:

Aviendha? What would her vision lead her to do as far as siding with either of the two.

What about the Wise Ones? They seemed troubled after Egwene told them about Rand's plan.

 

Elayne seems to be preparing for a post-Rand world already. She has made a move on Cairhein and made an alliance with Perrin, Alliandre (and possibly Berelain). So if Elayne does decide to side with either Rand or Egwene, would the alliance follow her lead? Would Berelain and Alliandre dare break their alliance with Elayne if they do not agree with her choice on the matter? MOST importantly what would Perrin decide if their 6-nation alliance decide to go with Egwene? his POV indicates he believes in Rand but would Perrin side with Rand against the Alliance even if that means contradicting Faile?

 

King Darlin I think is grateful to Rand for his crown and seems to be leaning towards him on his reply to Egwene. King Alsalam of Arad Doman has just been rescued by Cadsuane and he has no armies to speak of so I don't know if he will be at the meeting or not.

 

Logain I believe would side with Rand but will he make it to the meeting?

 

Lastly, concerning the Aes Sedai. Would all of them automatically side with Egwene?

 

edit: I purposely left out the Seanchan on this to prevent the thread to becoming a debate about damane :P

Edited by USURP888
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 203
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't believe anybody will have a chance to really choose a side at FOM. I think the meeting will be broken up before anything is decided by the news of the invasion of Caemlyn and possibly also of the Seanchan attacking the Tower. The actual Peace of the Dragon will likely happen much later in the story and will involve the Seanchan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol are we talking BEFORE Rand ta'verens the group into following him or after, because I highly doubt anyone will oppose him once he says his piece. If you're talking when the meeting starts, your list sounds about right. Afterword I seriously doubt anyone will be against Rand Sedai, not even Egwene. Come on, she's arrogant and pretty full of her self at the moment, but she isn't stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol are we talking BEFORE Rand ta'verens the group into following him or after, because I highly doubt anyone will oppose him once he says his piece. If you're talking when the meeting starts, your list sounds about right. Afterword I seriously doubt anyone will be against Rand Sedai, not even Egwene. Come on, she's arrogant and pretty full of her self at the moment, but she isn't stupid.

 

 

hahaha, I agree once Rand's Taveren effect comes into play it's all over so let's just say for the sake of argument that this is before Rand speaks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, Elayne will be the only notable to take Egwene's side. Which is why the news that both her and Egwene's capitals are under attack by third and fourth parties will be crucial. They will have to call on reinforcements to repel the invaders, and all those reinforcements will be in Rand's pocket. He'll demand a price for his assistance I wager, especially of Egwene and the so-called Aes Sedai.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think FOM is pretty much a foregone conclusion in as far as breaking the seals is concerned atleast. Rand certainly treats it that way and I'm inclined to believe him. He'll break the seals. The only thing I can see him give over is the timing. He might delay breaking the seals for a couple of days but that's all. What's really iffy is what kind of concessions Rand can get from the nations and the WT in return for him sacrificing himself to seal the DO.

 

By the way it's not as if Egwene has any special resistance to the ta'veren effect either. She is opposing Rand because he wanted her to oppose him. So if Rand does turn his ta'veren to full power Egwene will be just like all the other sheep in the flock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perrin will stand with Rand and nothing will change that. Berelain and Alliandre will stand with Perrin (they're all in his pocket and by extension Rand's). I don't really see Mat having much of an opinion on the matter. But his armies are going to fall with Rand. The Borderlands will stand with Rand (including of course Bashere and the Legion of the Dragon) and so will Ituralde and Arad Doman.

 

Illian will side with Rand because of the Seanchan threat. Yea being Amyrlin is all fine and dandy but Rand's the Dragon Reborn who's conquered half the known world, lead what could be argued as a successful campaign of containment against the Seanchan and.. oh yea happened to bump of the Forsaken who was controlling Illian. Not to mention that the Illianers love him.

 

Darlin will not be bullied by either but I believe he will side with Rand after coming to an honest and intellectual decision to side with him. Darlin already respects Rand and to date has been around him fairly often after his coming down from the mountain top. I honestly cannot see the Aiel going anywhere but with Rand. The only possible opposition will come from the Wise Ones and lets face it.. they're a cut above your average Wetlander woman. They will simply see sense in the matter and side with the Dragon Reborn.

 

I don't have a clue as to where Elayne will fall. She looks set to side with Egwene right now and I honestly think in the end she will (I mean after all she needs to put up with Egwene for centuries.. after best she only has to suffer Rand a few days more :rolleyes:).

 

Then there are all the lone wolves. Cads', Nyn', Mo' etc., etc. will side with Rand as will the loyalist Asha'man out of sheer principle of opposing the Aes Sedai.

 

Malkier isn't having much of a say in the matter of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Rand has had a change in character, he letting various people speak (one at a time) might be likely.

Perhaps he might be persuaded by various comments.

 

Afterward, he would speak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rand - Perrin, Mat, nynaeve, Gareth Bryne

 

egwene - Egwene

 

undecided - Elayne, all the kings, moiraine

Could Moiraine be the tipping point in uniting the world behind Rand. Could she have knowledge, probably from the Finns, that indicates that the seals must be broken that will be accepted by Egwene?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that the only nations that there's any doubt about are the Seanchan and Andor with its subject nations. I think that Mat and ZenRand will convince Tuon of the necessity of alliance, and they will be able to convince her to sign on to the Dragon Peace. Andor is a bit of a different case.

 

Some of the factors:

-Elayne is caught between one of her best friends and her lover. However, her other closest friends likely to have an opinion (Nynaeve, Min, maybe Aviendha) are likely to side with Rand.

 

-Not all of Elayne's subject realms might be happy to side with the Tower. Cairhien might still remember that Rand's food shipments kept them alive during the civil war, his Aiel saved them from the invasion, and he improved the lot of commoners in Cairhien just like he did Tear. Perrin would likely want to side with Rand as opposed to the Tower. Elayne sits rather precariously as things stand, and taking a position that sits contrary to that of some of her most crucial followers would be dangerous in the long term.

 

-For Elayne Sedai, the Amyrlin's word is law. Further, the Hall has granted the Amyrlin authority to deal with the monarchs of the world directly; as an Aes Sedai and as a monarch, Elayne has no recourse to look to the Hall for support. If Egwene gives her an outright command to side with the White Tower, Elayne is bound by Tower law to follow it.

 

-Siding against the White Tower directly is politically very dangerous. But, chances are that everyone else is doing it too, which makes it less dangerous.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think that it'll be an easy decision for Elayne, but I think that she'll side with Rand. I think that the result will be Egwene trying to command her to get in line, and that as a result Elayne will withdraw from the White Tower to avoid conflict between being an Aes Sedai and between being a queen. Alternatively, Egwene might see that that'll be what'll happen if she presses the issue, and once Egwene realizes she has no support she'll agree to Rand's plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Perrin will side with Rand, meaning the Alliandre and Berelain almost certainly will.

 

The Whitecloaks are currently fighting with Perrin's forces, and, if the main force opposing the Dragon Reborn is the Amyrlin Seat and the Aes Sedai in general, then I think it likely that they too will fall on the side of the Dragon Reborn.

 

It seems that Elayne will side with Egwene at the moment, though its shaky ground, IMO- if many nations fall on the side of the DR, and especially if Nynaeve, Moiraine, etc. go over to Rand's side, I think she might side with Rand. That said, Egwene is her "friend", or was considered so in the past, and through Gawyn and her position as Aes Sedai (much as I believe she will concentrate largely on ruling Andor and Cairhien, rather than her duties to the Tower), has strong ties to the WT as a whole, and to Egwene herself.

 

The Borderlanders will probably side with Rand.

 

The Aiel, once again, may well side with Rand, though I can see them being divided- if the Wise Ones agree that the decision is foolish, many will listen to them, if they are not convinced otherwise.

 

Illian, I can see siding with Rand.

 

The White Tower, obviously, will side with Egwene, however, I find it very doubtful that Nynaeve will not stand with Rand, and quite possibly Cadsuane and Moiraine, too (I believe they will, but I'm not sure). Bear in mind that Cadsuane is a legend amongst Aes Sedai, Moiraine has also gained a heroic status for her actions, and Nynaeve is the most powerful AS in the Tower, putting her at the top of the unofficial power chain- not to mention, she has made leaps and bounds in healing that noone has made since the Age of Legends, or even earlier. If they stand with Rand, I imagine other AS may join them, or at least consider it.

 

Other nations, not sure, but they may side with Egwene, simply because the Amyrlin Seat has been known as the most powerful political figure in the world for many years. I imagine this still holds some weight.

 

Mat, I'm undecided on.

 

So, to summarise:

 

Rand will have the most nations on his side, I believe. The Asha'man currently attached to Perrin etc. will side with Rand, the rest might well be too caught up with the Black Tower issues to do anything at the FoM. A number of channelers will also side with him.

 

Egwene will have the most female channelers, IMO- the vast majority of the White Tower, quite possibly some Wise Ones, likely the Kin, if any representatives lurk there. I do think this may be undermined if and when channelers such as Nynaeve, Moiraine and Cadsuane agree with Rand- not to mention any other Aes Sedai, as I imagine Teslyn and co. may have considerations if Mat and co. join with Rand. There will also be the Tower Guard and Warders, of course, and quite possibly a few nations- most likely Andor and Cairhien, both of which are powerful nations.

 

However, I do believe that this is all a moot point. We know that Andor and the White Tower- both strongholds of the groups likely to be opposing Rand- are going to fall under attack, meaning that most of Rand's opposition will disperse, OR agree to the need to fight the Last Battle as soon as possible. Of course, there's also Rand's ta'veren nature. At the end of the day, if Rand truly needs to break the seals, then the seals are going to be broken, probably with everyone's approval, before they even realise they gave it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I think initially the majority of the non-borderland nations will side with Egwene...

 

But then I think he will use his Pattern bending skills as he chats with them about the ruins, alluding to the impossibility of building a stable dwelling on the rubble and that strong foundations are necessary etc. I reckon that will pull most of everyone to his side except Egwene and (potentially) Elayne; he will likely have to tell them off (Egwene for always thinking she knows best and Elayne for putting her desire for his safety before the good of the people) which will likely be greatly embarrassing and may annoy her considerably, but she will have little choice but to go along with.

 

Oh and at some stage, given Min's viewing it is quite likely that Alanna may show up and give Egwene Rand's bond so that she can attempt to use it to influence him. During the argument, Rand will know her wrath (or whatever the prophecy line is) - either before he Pattern bends or after after he has convinced a great many people; personally I DON'T think that 'knowing' her anger means anything about the bond, it might, but I think its just saying that he will annoy her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

Edited by Suttree
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like most Aes Sedai, Egwene thinks she knows better than everyone else who has ever been born; they have been so long at manipulating everyone and trying to rule the world (hardly 'servants of all' are they?) that they fail to consider anyone else's perspectives may have any degree of merit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

I think she may, especially if she has her own plan being created at the time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

I think she may, especially if she has her own plan being created at the time

 

She won't have one. All she has is her fear that breaking the seals is too risky. Which is quite natural since she didn't witness the AOL. The only one who has any idea what the DO might be able to do if the final seals are broken is Rand. She however equates it with the immediate end of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

I think she may, especially if she has her own plan being created at the time

 

She won't have one. All she has is her fear that breaking the seals is too risky. Which is quite natural since she didn't witness the AOL. The only one who has any idea what the DO might be able to do if the final seals are broken is Rand. She however equates it with the immediate end of the world.

Because she hasn't as yet heard a specific plan from Rand. Once she does she may agree or she may not. But people seem assured that she will oppose him no matter what, yet we have seen her change her mind before as a result of evidence in the past so I don't think it's fair to rule it on this occasion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because she hasn't as yet heard a specific plan from Rand. Once she does she may agree or she may not. But people seem assured that she will oppose him no matter what, yet we have seen her change her mind before as a result of evidence in the past so I don't think it's fair to rule it on this occasion.

 

 

Hopefully that is the case. The Randland folks need to be united if they are to have any chance of defeating the DO. However, I cannot think of any instance off the top of my head wherein Egwene has changed her mind as a result of evidence, can you give some citation please? thank you.

Edited by USURP888
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

I think she may, especially if she has her own plan being created at the time

 

She won't have one. All she has is her fear that breaking the seals is too risky. Which is quite natural since she didn't witness the AOL. The only one who has any idea what the DO might be able to do if the final seals are broken is Rand. She however equates it with the immediate end of the world.

Because she hasn't as yet heard a specific plan from Rand. Once she does she may agree or she may not. But people seem assured that she will oppose him no matter what, yet we have seen her change her mind before as a result of evidence in the past so I don't think it's fair to rule it on this occasion.

 

I was talking about whether she will have a plan of her own. Not about whether she'll agree with Rand or not after he has told her and others his reasoning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been a while since I read ToM so I may have forgot but does everyone really thing Egwene would oppose Rand if he came up with a solid plan? She was trying to discuss breaking the seals, Rand was the one who refused and walked away. Guess it'll be ok though...I mean Min does have her head in those old books.

I think she may, especially if she has her own plan being created at the time

 

She won't have one. All she has is her fear that breaking the seals is too risky. Which is quite natural since she didn't witness the AOL. The only one who has any idea what the DO might be able to do if the final seals are broken is Rand. She however equates it with the immediate end of the world.

Because she hasn't as yet heard a specific plan from Rand. Once she does she may agree or she may not. But people seem assured that she will oppose him no matter what, yet we have seen her change her mind before as a result of evidence in the past so I don't think it's fair to rule it on this occasion.

 

I was talking about whether she will have a plan of her own. Not about whether she'll agree with Rand or not after he has told her and others his reasoning.

Yeah I gathered that - sorry should have made it a distinct post rather than a reply to you - was really replying to the people who have stated that she will oppose him no matter what. But I do agree that it appears she doesn't have a plan of her own from her talk with Silvania.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...