is Moiraine the Light of the World?

[Mystica]

The Finn said 'you shall give up half the light of the world, to save the light of the world'.

 

So Mat gave up half his eye-sight to save Moiraine. But does that make her the Light of the world? What IS the Light of the world? Mat's other eye? That would be rather lame.

 

Any thoughts? Theories? Conspiracies?

[vasu619]

The Finn said 'you shall give up half the light of the world, to save the world'.

 

FYP. Nothing to see here, move along.

[ineedfourberfs]

Oh man I love google adsense. There's a banner asking me to get my eyes checked at the top of this thread.

 

That's a win on so many levels.

[Mystica]

lmao you having a bit of an eye issue, berfs?

[SylviaDoreen]

The Finn said 'you shall give up half the light of the world, to save the light of the world'.

 

So Mat gave up half his eye-sight to save Moiraine. But does that make her the Light of the world? What IS the Light of the world? Mat's other eye? That would be rather lame.

 

Any thoughts? Theories? Conspiracies?

 

Actually..I kinda think thats an interesting interpretation of the finn's saying. :) Who knows...I don't

[Songstress]

Oh man I love google adsense. There's a banner asking me to get my eyes checked at the top of this thread.

 

That's a win on so many levels.

 

I see what you did there. ;)

[Songstress]

The Finn said 'you shall give up half the light of the world, to save the world'.

 

FYP. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

I also see what you did there... which apparently the OP did not.

 

"FYP", for those not in the know, means "fixed your post".

[Callern]

There's still the question of what Moiraine is going to do tho?

Probably something orgasmic, so I'll read the chapter in the bathroom.

[Majsju]

There's still the question of what Moiraine is going to do tho?

Probably something orgasmic, so I'll read the chapter in the bathroom.

 

Well, if we go by Norse religion, Oden (whom mat borrows a lot from) sacrificed an eye so he would be allowed to drink from the Well of Mimer. Doing so granted him great wisdom, and while RJ took a lot of liberties in translating our myths and religions into his world, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume Moiraine sumbolises the wisdom here. Ie, she will have something important info that will help Rand figure out how to actually seal the DO back up in a way that works.

 

Also, Moiraine got her bargain. We know of one of her requests - the angreal. Which leaves two unaccounted for. Since she was naked, whatever her other requests were it can not have been something physical. But knowledge? Could work.

[Mystica]

The Finn said 'you shall give up half the light of the world, to save the world'.

 

FYP. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

I also see what you did there... which apparently the OP did not.

 

"FYP", for those not in the know, means "fixed your post".

 

 

lol thanks, I was wondering what that meant but didn't want to ask. LOL

 

And this is why it's a good thing that in two weeks time I'll be buying a complete new set of WOT. It's been too long since I done a re-read and my books are falling apart.

[Mystica]

Good points, Maj. I'm looking forward to seeing how Moiraine will act/react to Egwene as Amyrlin and where she will place herself in regard to the Egwene versus Rand position. My guess is that she'll side with Ran, for Moiraine (in my opinion) has always put the Light before the WT (much like Cadsuane has), which is the major reason that in my book she's one of the very few 'real' Aes Sedai.

[Majsju]

Well, if I am correct about Moiraine representing wisdom, I don't think she will pick a side, since both Rand and Egwene are wrong. rather, Moiraine would help putting both of them on the right path. Assuming that she even gets there in time, it is quite possible she has to jump in and save rands behind later, because he has ran off without thinking (again). not sure which one I'd prefer, as both are a bit cliché.

[algspkr]

Well, if I am correct about Moiraine representing wisdom, I don't think she will pick a side, since both Rand and Egwene are wrong. rather, Moiraine would help putting both of them on the right path. Assuming that she even gets there in time, it is quite possible she has to jump in and save rands behind later, because he has ran off without thinking (again). not sure which one I'd prefer, as both are a bit cliché.

Why do you feel that Rand is wrong?

[NitroS]

Well, if I am correct about Moiraine representing wisdom, I don't think she will pick a side, since both Rand and Egwene are wrong. rather, Moiraine would help putting both of them on the right path. Assuming that she even gets there in time, it is quite possible she has to jump in and save rands behind later, because he has ran off without thinking (again). not sure which one I'd prefer, as both are a bit cliché.

how is rand running off without thinking? he has over 300 years of knowledge and has been thinking about how the seals must be broken first for like the last 3 - 4 books?

 

the light of the world refers to the light winning the last battle, as moraine is needed for the last battle to be won as said by one of mins viewings.

[Mystica]

Rand's views have changed quite a bit since his time on Dragonmount though. He said that thing about slaying the DO while he was still being Darth Rand, so it's more than likely he changed his mind on this now that he's undergone the enlightenment thing.

[Majsju]

Well, if I am correct about Moiraine representing wisdom, I don't think she will pick a side, since both Rand and Egwene are wrong. rather, Moiraine would help putting both of them on the right path. Assuming that she even gets there in time, it is quite possible she has to jump in and save rands behind later, because he has ran off without thinking (again). not sure which one I'd prefer, as both are a bit cliché.

Why do you feel that Rand is wrong?

 

Deciding to break the seals before figuring out what the next step is. Last we saw him even mentioning what to do next, he was hoping Min to just figure it out for him. Apparently, getting 400 years worth of memories does not automatically grant you wisdom (who would have guessed...)

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

Well, if I am correct about Moiraine representing wisdom, I don't think she will pick a side, since both Rand and Egwene are wrong. rather, Moiraine would help putting both of them on the right path. Assuming that she even gets there in time, it is quite possible she has to jump in and save rands behind later, because he has ran off without thinking (again). not sure which one I'd prefer, as both are a bit cliché.

Why do you feel that Rand is wrong?

 

Deciding to break the seals before figuring out what the next step is. Last we saw him even mentioning what to do next, he was hoping Min to just figure it out for him. Apparently, getting 400 years worth of memories does not automatically grant you wisdom (who would have guessed...)

What else would you have him do? Time is running out; unless the battle is won soon and the pattern set right everyone is going to starve to death, if not crushed by the imminent trolloc invasion. And it's about time Min did something other than cost Rand limbs.

 

Edit: I know Rand seems to radiate Miracle-Gro these days, but unless all he does is constantly walk round Randland it won't be enough to feed, well, practically everyone still alive.

[Mystica]

what makes you think that Moiraine would have it right? Simply because she spent time with the Finn? She's interpreted the prophecies wrong before only to recognise her mistake after the fact (as everyone else). It's much more likely to assume that Rand knows better how to handle this, given that he's actually been there the last time. He now has full access to Lews' memories and what occurred back then that caused it to go wrong and knows what has to be done in order to avoid the same mistakes from being made. Moiraine wasn't there at the sealing of the bore the last time, all she has in the form of wisdom is her own deductive reasoning and interpretation of the Finn's answers. That's as much a 'maybe' as anything Rand comes up with and a lot less certain than what he knows.

[Orderofolde]

There's still the question of what Moiraine is going to do tho?

Probably something orgasmic, so I'll read the chapter in the bathroom.

 

Well, if we go by Norse religion, Oden (whom mat borrows a lot from) sacrificed an eye so he would be allowed to drink from the Well of Mimer. Doing so granted him great wisdom, and while RJ took a lot of liberties in translating our myths and religions into his world, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume Moiraine sumbolises the wisdom here. Ie, she will have something important info that will help Rand figure out how to actually seal the DO back up in a way that works.

 

Also, Moiraine got her bargain. We know of one of her requests - the angreal. Which leaves two unaccounted for. Since she was naked, whatever her other requests were it can not have been something physical. But knowledge? Could work.

Seeing what happened to her it could well be. Remember, she warned Rand I think it was that asking questions that touched on the shadow could result in unwanted side effects, and to ask questions of the Dark One the results could be dire. Her situation there in Finnland seemed so.

[herid]

There's still the question of what Moiraine is going to do tho?

Probably something orgasmic, so I'll read the chapter in the bathroom.

 

Well, if we go by Norse religion, Oden (whom mat borrows a lot from) sacrificed an eye so he would be allowed to drink from the Well of Mimer. Doing so granted him great wisdom, and while RJ took a lot of liberties in translating our myths and religions into his world, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume Moiraine sumbolises the wisdom here. Ie, she will have something important info that will help Rand figure out how to actually seal the DO back up in a way that works.

 

Also, Moiraine got her bargain. We know of one of her requests - the angreal. Which leaves two unaccounted for. Since she was naked, whatever her other requests were it can not have been something physical. But knowledge? Could work.

Moiraine went through the doorway from Rhuidean. That one leads to Eeelfinn who grant requests only. They don't answer any questions. Mat tried that one and they refused to answer any of his questions. They certainly would not answer any direct questions about how to defeat the DO. So it's pretty hard to see how she could gain any knowledge from them except in some indirect way as Mat did. but that kind of knowledge would seem very unlikely to give her special insights into how to beat the DO. possible but very hard to see how. I think the parallel with Mimer is that Mat gained wisdom when he got all those past memories. That happened before he lost the eye chronologically but RJ did take quite a few liberties with the myths. also, the price for getting the memories was set far in advance--Mat was told about it. He just had to wait a while to pay it.

 

So I don't believe Moiraine gained some extra about the LB info from the Finns.

[Hyronimus]

What we do know is that the angreal isn't important from her point of view as she offered to give it up for thom. could she have made a request that effected the world outside while she was trapped? Say, let the dragon reborn be reunited with the sword justice for example.

[herid]

What we do know is that the angreal isn't important from her point of view as she offered to give it up for thom. could she have made a request that effected the world outside while she was trapped? Say, let the dragon reborn be reunited with the sword justice for example.

the Finns don't have the power to grant those kinds of requests. They are actually quite limited in what they can do.

RJ elaborated on that

 

 

TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005

 

Week 1 Question: Are the Eelfinn limited in their power to grant wishes? To what degree can they affect the outside world? Also, is there any relation between what the Aelfinn do and Min's ability?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Oh, yes, there definitely are limits to the powers of the Eelfinn. For one thing, they cannot affect the outside world at all. If you said that you wanted to be King of the World, you might well find that what you received was not what you expected. For example, they might put you out of their world into a world with no other sentient life, where you would be king by default. Then again, you might find yourself with the necessary skills to make yourself King of the World, if you were able. Actually achieving it would be up to you. But then, many of their "gifts" are skewed in this way. You must be very careful is you're asking if you want to receive what you are hoping for. And yet, remember that Mat actually did receive very much what he asked for. Just not in the way that he wanted.

[Hyronimus]

thanks herid!

 

this does limit what she could have asked for. she could have easily used one up in dealing with lanfear (was that the angreal?), but i assumed she didn't make any atempt to leave given what she had seen of the future. therefore there is a least one request free.

 

going by the quote above it's likely to be either a new ability to achieve some task or and item of power probably with the aim of achieving a task.

 

so far so little.

 

[Stitch]

I would also point out that the 'Angreal' she has must be extremely special, why would she waste one wish on angreal? For starters she states she is MUCH weaker than before, yet the angreal will make her MUCH stronger than before... now this sounds more like a sangreal to me, however is it that or does it have other properties, i.e. is it some sort of Terangreal/Sangreal Hybrid?

 

Wishes are generally likely to be tangible (such as the spear or medallion) or intangible such as memories filling the holes in Mat's memories (note that 'answers' werent given, but rather memories that imparted knowledge),

 

Personally I think that She has 1) taken the angreal, 2) modified it in some way and 3) modified her body/mind in some way (such as making her the seed for a new eye of the world or great serpent)

[Hyronimus]

well the fact that she offered to give it up for thom is a strike against the angreal as any thing other than compensation for her lose of strength in the power, and a nifty way to make her stronger then ever(plot wise). unless you don't think she really meant to give it up?