Crossroads of Twilight - Frustration

[HighWiredSith]

I've got three years invested in reading the WOT series and this is the closest I've come to giving up. I can't help but notice that the pacing of the series slowed tremendously over the last few books but now, halfway through COT, I am so sick of reading page after page after page of women conspiring and manipulating and talking and sniffing and snorting and smoothing dresses when they're not planting "fists on hips" (I swear if I read that phrase one more time I'm going to throw, THROW this book out of my window) and doing pretty much absolutely nothing that I'm close to giving up on this book and this series.

 

I'm not sexist. I have always found the female characters fascinating and one of the reasons I enjoyed this series. But now, I find myself asking, is there a reason for investing 20 or more pages describing Elaine's effort to get houses on her side by chatting and talking and complaining about her tea? Is there really a purpose in describing the details of a day in the life of Egwene Aes Sedai? Faile is still captive! Rand was trying to cleanse the male half of the source! Matt was escaping the Seanchan...and we get pages and pages and pages and pages of tea drinking, bath taking, sniffing women...oh, you get the idea.

 

Tell me it gets better.

 

Tell me it's all worth it!

Edited January 25, 2011 by HighWiredSith

[randsc]

There are some just plain bad books in the middle of the series, no doubt. If you have made it through CoT, you're almost through the worst. The next book, Knife of Dreams, is also awful. But then the last two are better. Not up to the standard of the first five books, but better.

Edited January 25, 2011 by randsc

[moratcorlm]

Knife of Dreams is the second-best book in the series. TGS is bad. TOM is decent.

 

I'll take the claims of 'not sexist' under advisement considering your signature, but COT is one of the shorter books in the series, and if you're halfway through it it shouldn't take more than another few hours of reading to finish. If it isn't your thing, go ahead and give it up. But yes, COT is important to the stories being told.

Edited January 25, 2011 by moratcorlm

[A. Pseudonym]

In CoT the main focus is Perrin's character development and the relationship between Mat and Tuon.

 

In Perrin's case you have to acknowledge that he is misguided and childish in his shirking of responsibility as a leader, his neglect of Aram (who has nothing to live for but Perrin) and his somewhat psychotic fixation on his wife and reaction to her kidnapping.

 

Mat and Tuon have to go from strangers to man and wife. This requires that they build a relationship, that Tuon comes to respect Mat.

 

Now these are boring sequences when you're shouting at the book to refocus on Rand and get going with the Last Battle, which has been built up for so long. It's what I was doing since Path of Daggers, if not earlier. These loose ends need to be tied up before all the rest can be advanced, however.

 

Things that could have -and should- have been cut out were Faile's plotting to escape from the Shaido and as you pointed out Elayne's chapters. I would have preferred if CoT and KoD were compiled into one book, without all the padding.

Edited January 25, 2011 by A. Pseudonym

[hankscorpio]

Crossroads of Twilight is pretty bad, just about everyone here will agree with you.

 

Don't give up though, Knife of Dreams is very good as is The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight.

 

I won't give away spoilers, but CoT really reads like an overly long prequel to Knife of Dreams. Most of the plot threads that don't get resolved in CoT get resolved in Knife of Dreams.

[capuga]

Stick with it. The second half of CoT has some more Mat chapters which are always fun. If you're really not liking the Elayne chapters, feel free to skim them as the plot doesn't advance much until the next book (although you will miss some of the character building).

 

Once you get past CoT, the next book KoD picks up considerably and is very good. It resolves many of the plotlines you are currently reading. Both tGS and ToM are fast paced and I enjoyed both of them quite a bit for the most part.

[yoniy0]

I think many of us can identify with feeling some measure of frustration at that point in the series. It's not that what happens in TPoD through CoT isn't important, but the pace is considerably slower than the WoT we knew from TGH and TSR.

Having said that, I think that most of my personal frustration stemmed from only getting to read a single WoT installment every few years, so having that book be CoT was a little disappointing. I think I'd have rather enjoyed myself if I knew I could just keep on reading.

 

As to your question - Yes. The pace does pick up. The following books are considered by many to be very good. If you want to get a feeling for the general consensus (as far as such a thing exists), look here.

[randsc]

 

I won't give away spoilers, but CoT really reads like an overly long prequel to Knife of Dreams. Most of the plot threads that don't get resolved in CoT get resolved in Knife of Dreams.

 

Exactly. All Knife of Dreams is is the second half of CoT. Anyone who finds the story arcs that were so painfully constructed in CoT annoying (as I do) is unlikely to love their resolutions in KoD. Except in the sense that at least if they're resolved, they're over.

 

Personally, I would put the first six books, plus the last two, ahead of Knife of Dreams. Making it, in my estimation, the 9th best book, not the second best. About all I can say for it is that it's better than CoT or WH.

Edited January 25, 2011 by randsc

[Thorum]

Is there a reason for investing 20 or more pages describing Elaine's effort to get houses on her side by chatting and talking and complaining about her tea?

 

Yes. It's hard. It's very hard. It's a huge effort. It's uber-difficult. It takes like half an hour to read!!!

 

Is there really a purpose in describing the details of a day in the life of Egwene Aes Sedai?

 

It's still fantasy. It's not the monsters or the magic that inspired that name. This did.

 

Most people see CoT and WH as the worst books. Having just finished Winters' Heart, I have to disagree. It's so much better than the last 5 or so (non-Jordan) books I read and enjoyed reading.

[herid]

I've got three years invested in reading the WOT series and this is the closest I've come to giving up. I can't help but notice that the pacing of the series slowed tremendously over the last few books but now, halfway through COT, I am so sick of reading page after page after page of women conspiring and manipulating and talking and sniffing and snorting and smoothing dresses when they're not planting "fists on hips" (I swear if I read that phrase one more time I'm going to throw, THROW this book out of my window) and doing pretty much absolutely nothing that I'm close to giving up on this book and this series.

 

I'm not sexist. I have always found the female characters fascinating and one of the reasons I enjoyed this series. But now, I find myself asking, is there a reason for investing 20 or more pages describing Elaine's effort to get houses on her side by chatting and talking and complaining about her tea? Is there really a purpose in describing the details of a day in the life of Egwene Aes Sedai? Faile is still captive! Rand was trying to cleanse the male half of the source! Matt was escaping the Seanchan...and we get pages and pages and pages and pages of tea drinking, bath taking, sniffing...oh, you get the idea.

 

Tell me it gets better.

 

Tell me it's all worth it!

I feel your pain. I also almost gave up on COT. Just couldn't stand it for exactly the reasons you mention. It's still the only book in the series I've only read once. KoD is MUCH better. it's one of my favorites actually. I think SR is the only one I like better.

[Luckers]

Path of Daggers and Crossroads of Twilight suffer the same flaw--Jordan's overestimation of just how much stuff can fit in a novel. There has always been this problem--in the original pitch the Wheel was to be a trilogy. Books one, two and three were book one, I presume four, five and six were plotted as book two, and everything after was book three.

 

Clearly that did not happen, and Jordan dealt--each book expands in the depth of world building and simple length until it reaches critical limit in the Path of Daggers. Here, Jordan was caught short (or rather, long). Thus the story was divided. tPoD and WH. The same then happens with CoT and KoD. And, as Brandon had to deal with, this evolves further with tGS, ToM and aMoL--though as the final books these had enough material to include suitable climexes in each.

 

The fact is tPoD is the first half of a book, as is CoT. In themselves, neither are satisfying, but read in context both are brilliant. They set up what the following book dilivers.

[Agitel]

Knife of Dreams picks up the pace again. It's no Eye of the World, mind you, but compared to books 8-10, it's a hell of a lot faster and it finally ties up a lot of running plots.

 

TGS and ToM are both fast paced novels, though. Well, TGS starts somewhat slow (though fast compared to 8-10), but it picks up a lot of momentum.

 

You're almost through with the uphill stretch of the series. Ever climb a mountain and keep getting fooled by false summits? CoT is the last of those false summits, you hit the peak in KoD, and it's a downhill roller coaster the rest of the way.

[Beidomon]

Tell me it gets better.

 

Tell me it's all worth it!

 

Yes, it does get better. Things start happening again towards the end of the next book, Knife of Dreams, and then its off to the races!

 

But, no, it was not worth it. Save yourself the brain damage, and stop plodding through Crossroads. I promise you, you're not going to be any more confused if you just procede directly to Knife of Dreams. The dialogue in Crossroads (and that's all there is) is unnecessary to your understanding/enjoyment of later plot developments. I'm sure the WoTards can connect some obscure plotline to something that was said in Crossroads, but who really cares? If I could balefire a book, this would be it.

[marathdamane]

Tell me it's all worth it!

 

When reading Towers of Midnight several times the exact thought that went through my head was "every chapter I ever slogged through has now officially been worth it". Personally I'm not sure I would skip any of them even if I was doing a re-read, but yeah, just get over the hump and enjoy the rest of the ride :)

Edited January 25, 2011 by marathdamane

[blazetheearth]

This topic is one in which I think that those of us that have been reading the series for almost 20 years have an advantage.

 

On the one hand, for those that have come to the series relatively recently have the advantage of not having to wait between books, like we did. We had to wait almost 2 years between ACoS and TPoD then another 2 years for WH and another 2 years for CoT and 2 more for KoD. And some of those gaps we agonizingly long. Personally I remember the gap between WH and CoT especially well, because of the ending of WH (Rand Cleansing the OP, and the serious ownage of Forsaken that took place). So if you think you are frustrated by CoT (when you could put down one and then pick the next right up after), think about how we felt after waiting 26 months and then we get to send all that time reading about "tea drinking, bath taking, sniffing women...oh, you get the idea."

 

But at the same time, those 2 years gave us a hunger that someone who can read the series back-to-back doesn't necessarily have. I was unhappy with CoT on my first read through (because it was not giving me the info that I wanted when I wanted it), but I especially came to appreciate it while I was waiting for KoD to come out. Those two years in between books exposed me to so much really bad fantasy that I would go back and re-read the entire WoT series (including CoT) or reread one of the Eddings series, or Fiest's Riftwar. It was on those rereads that I came to appreciate CoT,

 

Because after all, bad WoT is still better than most good fantasy, and definitely better than other bad fantasy.

 

And I can say without a doubt that finishing the series will be worth it. Skip CoT if you must, but you may be a little lost in KoD if you do.

[David Selig]

No, it does not get better, the whole of CoT is pretty much the same. If you hate it now, you'll hate it till the end.

 

The first two thirds of KoD are almost the same, then finally the pace picks up.

[cgk84]

COT is awful. Utterly awful. Easily the lowest point of the series, and not because nothing happens (and slowly at that) or because RJ assumed that we all loved fictitious women's fashion or had not had enough "strong" female characters yet. It is the lowest point because poor RJ assumed (wrongly) that (far) more people liked Egwene and Elayne than actually did and would happily sit through scene after scene after scene of them doing nothing. Read it once, because you've come this far with the series, and then put it away never to see the light of day again or be suffered through again.

 

Do things get better after it? Yes. Much, much better. Personally I quite liked KoD, especially on the 2nd re-read, and the two Sanderson book may or may not endear you to his writting style but they contain some bloody fantastic chapters. Stick with COT and consider the next three books your well earned reward.

[A2597]

Yea...CoT is the worst book in the series. The next one is much, MUCH better. Restores my faith that the series could be good and end well.

 

Then 12 and 13 by Brandon Sanderson pick up a furious pace that hasn't been seen since books 1 and 3.

 

Seriously, if you are struggling, skip anything related to Elayne. Nothing happens of note with her. Perrin is hard to read this book to. Honestly..skim read, move on to next book. Enjoy. :D

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

Tell me it gets better.

 

Tell me it's all worth it!

 

 

it gets better.

 

but no, it's not worth it to waste one moment of life reading something you're not enjoying. it's not mandatory, there aren't any tests. life is short. maybe some day you'll feel like picking it back up.

[Aliriel]

I have to agree with everyone here, CoT is purely horrible.

Personally I'm a (very) slow reader so it takes me a good couple of weeks to get through each of the books, but CoT took me nearly a month and a half on my first read of it! I just got so frustraited after reading a few pages that I'd put it down and not touch it for a couple of days, but believe me when I say, once I had finished it I felt like sitting back with a cold beer and a smoke because I felt just as satisfied as if I'd had a good day at work. It's hard work keeping yourself motivated to read it, but as Red-Arm Pikeman said, the next 3 are your well earnt reward.

Keep at it mate, it'll only hurt for a moment.

 

A.

[Aquarius]

There are some just plain bad books in the middle of the series, no doubt. If you have made it through CoT, you're almost through the worst. The next book, Knife of Dreams, is also awful. But then the last two are better. Not up to the standard of the first five books, but better.

KoD is also awfull ??? General opinion seems it's one of the best. It's a matter of taste, people. Please just grow up and stop saying "this one is good, this one is bad". You totally have the right to believe what you want, but please don't try to make it an absolute truth. It's YOUR opinion, and no more than that.

[randsc]

There are some just plain bad books in the middle of the series, no doubt. If you have made it through CoT, you're almost through the worst. The next book, Knife of Dreams, is also awful. But then the last two are better. Not up to the standard of the first five books, but better.

KoD is also awfull ??? General opinion seems it's one of the best. It's a matter of taste, people. Please just grow up and stop saying "this one is good, this one is bad". You totally have the right to believe what you want, but please don't try to make it an absolute truth. It's YOUR opinion, and no more than that.

 

 

Of course it's a matter of taste. Just as all of the people agreeing that CoT is awful are expressing their taste. The OP asked for opinions. Is the proper Aquarian response to say simply, "It's all just a matter of taste?"

 

As for general opinion, take a look at that poll someone linked to on the first page. KoD doesn't seem that popular to me.

[yoniy0]

Of course it's a matter of taste. Just as all of the people agreeing that CoT is awful are expressing their taste. The OP asked for opinions. Is the proper Aquarian response to say simply, "It's all just a matter of taste?"

The point was that there's a difference between saying "I didn't care for it" and saying "it's an awful book". Having it be your honest opinion doesn't excuse the crudeness. I'm glad that it was said by someone other than myself, but I was already considering asking you all to restrain the language you use. After all, if there ever was a place in which saying something like that might bother other people, it's here.

 

[EDIT: It occurs to me that this comment might've come across differently than was intended. Please allow me to clarify that I was not voicing satisfaction at the way CoT was referred to. On the contrary, I meant to second Aquarius's request.]

 

As for general opinion, take a look at that poll someone linked to on the first page. KoD doesn't seem that popular to me.

Not that popular? Sure, it's not many people's first choice, but if you take the time to read through people's comments, you'll find that it often ranks relatively high, and almost never near the end of the list.

Edited January 26, 2011 by yoniy0

[randsc]

Of course it's a matter of taste. Just as all of the people agreeing that CoT is awful are expressing their taste. The OP asked for opinions. Is the proper Aquarian response to say simply, "It's all just a matter of taste?"

The point was that there's a difference between saying "I didn't care for it" and saying "it's an awful book". Having it be your honest opinion doesn't excuse the crudeness. I'm glad that it was said by someone other than myself, but I was already considering asking you all to restrain the language you use. After all, if there ever was a place in which saying something like that might bother other people, it's here.

 

As for general opinion, take a look at that poll someone linked to on the first page. KoD doesn't seem that popular to me.

Not that popular? Sure, it's not many people's first choice, but if you take the time to read through people's comments, you'll find that it often ranks relatively high, and almost never near the end of the list.

 

So why is it OK to refer to CoT as an awful book, as virtually every poster in the thread has done?

 

As for the "crudeness" of the language (what's crude about the word "awful" anyway?) [The rest of this comment was removed by Luckers as inapropriately confrontational].

[David Selig]

So if someone here happens to love CoT (there must'be some people like that), does that mean we should stop writing how terrible it is because he might get offended?

 

Oh, and KoD is terrible. In my opinion, in case someone gets offended. I don't care how high it ranks in other people's lists.