An ending

[RahulSingh]

I'm of the opinion that Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith will end up being sealed in the prison to help contain the Dark One also. The foreshadowing with Rand's two wounds and the cleansing of Saidin is just too obvious to ignore.

 

Another thing I think may happen- what if "his blood on the rocks at Shayol Gul" doesn't refer to Rand, but to Galad? I find it highly suspicious that nobody, especially Rand, who knows who his real mother is, seems to have made the connection between them. He has a half brother who is a main character but nobody mentions this fact? I mean, sure, Rand knows and I think a few other people may (I don't recall who else knows Tigraine was his mother), but why is it never mentioned? Even if Rand is the only one who knows, it still seems like we would've seen him make the connection in one of his POVs, especially when he finds out who his mother is. I think this is along the lines of nobody questioning why Mat got the Ashanderai from the Eelfinn. Nobody who knew where he got it, especially Mat himself, asked why he was given it. Then it ended up being a major plot point. I think the Rand/Galad connection may be the same. Maybe Galad will save Rand's life at Shayol Gul and die in the proccess? I don't know, I just think it bears thinking about.

Thats something I hadnt really thought of. Its true Galad is a Half Brother, but I dont think that's enough.

There are a couple of references to blood of the dragon in the Karaethon Cycle.

1st one is

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

2nd one is

"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul,

washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man’s salvation. "

 

both in reference to the Dragon's blood. It also could indirectly mean the Aiel. Since they have started putting the head bands and are now the "spears of the dragon", it is possible that could mean the aiel blood also.

 

I just think Galad for Rand is too simple. This is the last part of the book. It will have to be grand.... its TG after all. A half brothers blood for washing away the shadow?

 

its possible but i feel it is not probable.

[rand4747]

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

 

I think this refers to both his own blood and someone else/people of his blood.

[andrewatk]

I would say that the Bore is resealed, but to be honest how that happens doesn't really matter to me that much. It is a bit like worrying if the Space Monster of the Week will be defeated by Geordie with a Plasma Relay in the Engine Room or if it will be Data with a Reverse Polarity Beam in the Bridge. One made up metaphysical explanation is much the same as any other.

 

I don't think the Dark One will be killed. That would break the world just as much as wiping out the Creator or the Wheel.

 

Fain will be an annoying distraction to both sides that MIGHT possibly help the Lightside by accident, but no the New DO.

 

I already expressed my opinion on the Rand Death/Rebirth thing.

 

I think there will be a bloodbath among the secondary and tertiary characters. Juliun might be killed. A bunch of recurring Band characters will die. Of the Great Captains (Bashere, Byrne, Ituralde, Jagad) at least one will die, and probably more. Berlaine and Gawyn may die, as I mention elsewhere. A whole bucketful of recuring "Wetlander" nobles, Aes Sedai, Aiel chiefs, Aiel Wise Ones and Windfinders will die, but probably not Rhurac. Cadusaune will die, but Morraine will probably live happily ever after with Thom. The Maidens will be decimated (if not worse than decimated, because technically decimation is only 10% casualties) during the Second Strike on Shayol Ghul which will mean lots of dead named Maidens. Birgitte will live because she still neads to meet Younger Gaidal Cain, but I don't think she will meet him until after the books and after all her memories of past lives have gone dormant. Morgase and boyfriend will die.

 

All three of Rand's girls will survive long enough to see him "dead". Nynvaeve will survive to Heal him. Mat will surive. Perrin MIGHT die, but if he does it will be because Faile got killed first and he decided to go down in a Roaring Rampage of Revenge rather than go on living. Allana will bite the dust, but the negative effect will be minimized by the fact that Rand will still have three people bonded to him. Or maybe his "death" will break all his current bonds to Allana and his harem?

 

Rand will go into retirement somewhere after being revived. I can't see him wanting to hang around actually trying to run everything after the Last Battle, if for no other reason than to keep away from all the people that will want to treat him like a god or something. Mattin Stepaneos will be restored to the throne of Illian. Alsalam will be put back in charge of Arad Doman.

 

Sorry for any misspellings. I don't have time to look up all the words.

 

In all honesty though, he Last Battle itself don't really concern me that much anymore. People will die. It will Suck. Light wins in the end. Everyone goes "Yay!" while taking time to Remember The Hallowed Dead. Everything else is just the details.

 

No, what really has me worried is whether the Avi can find a way to avoid the Sucky Future for the Aiel (not to mention the White Tower and all the other female channellers being enslaved or killed by the Seanchan Invasion, which would be a Bad Thing).

[AuldGoldBeard]

But Lan? How is he not a major character? He was warder to the first Aes Sedai we spend any significant amount of time with in the series. He taught Rand swordsmanship. He is currently husband and warder to one of the most influential Aes Sedai in the series. It is heavily implied throughout the series that he is instrumental in the Last Battle. I don't know see any argument whatsoever for him being minor or even secondary.

 

Lan is a secondary character. The primary characters are Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne, the people who carry their own major plotlines. (Two scenes of Lan riding to Tarwin Gap don't count.) Secondary characters are main characters' adjuncts and love interests: Aviendha, Min, Tuon, Faile, Moiraine, Lan, Gawyn, Birgitte, Siuan, Thom, and maybe a couple of others. Tertiary characters make irregular appearances, but are still fleshed out somewhat: Juilin, Domon, Sheriam, Elaida, Tylin, Tam, and a ton of others. People who get a name and a brief character sketch--Kisman, Karldin, Corele, etc.--are background characters.

 

The question is whether you draw the line of "major" at primary, secondary, or tertiary. I'm quite sure no primary characters will (permanently) die, no more than two secondary characters (and I'd be surprised if it's any), and lots of tertiary characters will bite the dust.

[gary0044187]

But Lan? How is he not a major character? He was warder to the first Aes Sedai we spend any significant amount of time with in the series. He taught Rand swordsmanship. He is currently husband and warder to one of the most influential Aes Sedai in the series. It is heavily implied throughout the series that he is instrumental in the Last Battle. I don't know see any argument whatsoever for him being minor or even secondary.

 

Lan is a secondary character. The primary characters are Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne, the people who carry their own major plotlines. (Two scenes of Lan riding to Tarwin Gap don't count.) Secondary characters are main characters' adjuncts and love interests: Aviendha, Min, Tuon, Faile, Moiraine, Lan, Gawyn, Birgitte, Siuan, Thom, and maybe a couple of others. Tertiary characters make irregular appearances, but are still fleshed out somewhat: Juilin, Domon, Sheriam, Elaida, Tylin, Tam, and a ton of others. People who get a name and a brief character sketch--Kisman, Karldin, Corele, etc.--are background characters.

 

The question is whether you draw the line of "major" at primary, secondary, or tertiary. I'm quite sure no primary characters will (permanently) die, no more than two secondary characters (and I'd be surprised if it's any), and lots of tertiary characters will bite the dust.

I would agree with that except for the way Carlinya dies inspite of what min's viewing suggested and the way nicola died so offhandedly during this book. I have not read enough of Sanderson's work to really judge this properly but the more I think of those two characters, the more I think it is very possible that secondary and tertiary characters are going to be sacrificed to make the story look more dark. Now there is a possibility that Jordan outlined who dies where and that possibly those two deaths I mentioned just didn't get the attention they deserved, but it definitely causes me to doubt that no secondary and few tertiary characters will be killed. Before it seemed that characters only died when it served the plotline, now it seems that characters are starting to get killed to make the story seem darker than it is.

[johthohar]

But Lan? How is he not a major character? He was warder to the first Aes Sedai we spend any significant amount of time with in the series. He taught Rand swordsmanship. He is currently husband and warder to one of the most influential Aes Sedai in the series. It is heavily implied throughout the series that he is instrumental in the Last Battle. I don't know see any argument whatsoever for him being minor or even secondary.

 

Lan is a secondary character. The primary characters are Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne, the people who carry their own major plotlines. (Two scenes of Lan riding to Tarwin Gap don't count.) Secondary characters are main characters' adjuncts and love interests: Aviendha, Min, Tuon, Faile, Moiraine, Lan, Gawyn, Birgitte, Siuan, Thom, and maybe a couple of others. Tertiary characters make irregular appearances, but are still fleshed out somewhat: Juilin, Domon, Sheriam, Elaida, Tylin, Tam, and a ton of others. People who get a name and a brief character sketch--Kisman, Karldin, Corele, etc.--are background characters.

 

The question is whether you draw the line of "major" at primary, secondary, or tertiary. I'm quite sure no primary characters will (permanently) die, no more than two secondary characters (and I'd be surprised if it's any), and lots of tertiary characters will bite the dust.

 

I guess Min would technically be secondary but Aviendha has her own major plotline aside from her relationship with Rand. It may not play as large a role as some of the other charaters' but still... Anyway, I would probably draw the line for "major" somewhere in the middle of the list of secondary characters. I'm not interested enough to come up with a list of who I think are major characters though. lol

[Lupy]

Light wins, the DO's prison is restored to its pre-bore state.

 

Rand dies and stays dead until the end of the next age. Cadsuane dies, Land and Nyn live. Moraine is burnt out, but she and Thom go to TR and start a farm.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Personally, I like to think that "The Last Battle" means exactly that. Both the Dragon and the Shadow are dogmeat. Of course, that's an ending, but not the ending because there are no endings in the turnings of the wheel. Future generations will have to face the Shai'tan's successor, The Fain. Who knows what champions the Pattern will bring to battle him, then?

[akira.taylor]

seriously, what are you playing at mate? RJ has already knew the ending before the first book was even finished. The dark one will be walled up just like prior to the drilling of the bore.

 

you heard the outtriger novels. mat and tuon? yeah....

 

You know what the great thing about fiction is? You make it up. Just because Jordan said he intended to write outrigger novels doesn't mean he was going to. Could have been set in one of the portal stone worlds where the results of the Last Battle differ from the main series. Or it could simply have been a "what might have been" story. Either way, any prequels or outriggers aren't going to happen unless they hand them off to yet another author. At very best they are extremely unlikely. Sanderson has way too many other projects of his own that he is working on. So, if Tor decides they don't want anyone else to write them, chances are there goes Mat and Tuon's "protection". In fact, if they decide they aren't going to do the outriggers they might kill Mat and/or Tuon just so readers don't expect them.

 

Actually, Harriet is the only one who can make changes in the plot, and I doubt she would. Now, it is possible that Mat and Tuon staring in the outriggers doesn't mean they survive (although I suspect they do). Regardless, Mat and Tuon will die only if Jordan wanted them to (I presume he specified what happened to all major characters, regardless of whether we will find out, though minor characters may be left up to Sanderson). As for who might do the outriggers/prequels, I believe Sanderson is on record as stating that he feels that if they are written, he should do it (I think his feeling is that a third author will overly complicate things, not that he wants the money/publicity - he doesn't want to be "the guy who finished the Wheel of Time," he wants to be "that cool author who wrote all those good books, oh and finished the Wheel of Time").

 

Basically, Tor actually has less power than you seem to think. If Tor tries to change things, Harriet can go elsewhere to publish (I'd think, at least, it really depends how the contract was written).

[Medo123]

I'm almost certain Bela will survive Tarmon Gaidon.

[quick ben]

I think following on from Min's viewing of Perrin with the Broken Crown(EotW) it may indicate that Lord Bashere and Queen Tenobia will go the way of the dodo.

I'm not sure regarding any others at this stage though..

[Goramier]

There is how I think it will end:

 

Rand seals the bore with the DO locked up or with the DO dead and Fain having replaced the DO as the "new" DO waiting for his turn to break free. Maybe some reference to the idea that the seal is now good but that at some point a bad person could come along and open it back up. I suspect the usually mentioned people will die. I think Logain will take over the BT and become the King of the world so to speak. He will be the male channelers Seat I guess you could say.

 

I think by some writing scheme long planned, Rand will in fact survive but will not be staying with his fellow Randlanders. I suspect there could be something touching the idea of where the Elves in LOTR's departed the shores, only Rand will decide he wants to go to somewhere else or some other type of life-long vacation.

 

Then there is what I wish would happen:

 

Fain wins and becomes the new DO to rule the world and at some point, points to the last humans alive left to oppose him (a small group of Aiel rebels practically already dead and being hunted down) and laughs while saying something like, "they are not a problem, they are scattered, divided and leaderless!"

 

Leading up to Fain's great victory we learn that Rand was a fake all-along and Olver was actually the Dragon but was killed but a large-chested woman for trying to oogle her. Rand realizes Elayne sucks and hangs her. Having been inspired by witnessing it, Perin slaughters Faile then goes back to forging more rad weapons. Fortuana has enough of Matt running around by himself every day, calls him home and forces him to spend the rest of his life in the kitchen fixin' her sammiches.

 

Fain says, "ever hear of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? Morons!"

 

Cadsuane's head explodes. Lan stops being some a wussy, realizes he is Rambo with a sword and goes on a killing spree slaughtering thousands before he dies from a heart attack. He had also left Nyneave cause she sucks and had yanked on her hair to hard and it ripped her head off, and Lan and I both laugh. The Tinkers find their song but unfortunately it can only be powerful if sung by a mighty treesinger and the last one left, Loial, finally stopped being Rands little lacky and got himself some sweet, sweet Ogier lovin, retiring and never being heard from again.

 

Fain resurrects Faile. She then becomes his 75th wife. After 6 seconds of having her around Fain Kills her.

 

Thom decides he really doesn't like Morraine all that much and just continues going from tavern to tavern getting wasted and stealing farmer's daughters flowers. Aludra wakes up to the fact that there is large amounts of money to be made in the arms business and becomes the leading manufacturer of cannons...for Fain. She marries Fain and becomes his 49th wife. He refers to her only as, "hot pants."

 

Fain resurrects Faile again, just to use her as target practice for his sweat new cannons made by Hot Pants. She is blown up soon after. Elayne is resurrected and blown up in the same fashion.

 

Finally, after having seen his son die like a total fake and geek, Tam Al'Thor joins the "players," that local acting guild where he changes his name and becomes famous - his name being changed to George Clooney (come on we all know that is who would play him.) Garreth Bloody Bryne slays Suane for no real reason other then my sheer amusement then joins the players as well taking parts in a play where he acts as the father of Indiana Jones - a Taraboner acheologist.

[Foamy The Master]

voted Light wins, few major death, dark one destroyed :)

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

RJ never did have the stomach to kill off any main characters. I'm betting either no or few major characters will die, and the Dark One will be slain, due to RJ's own assertion that a linear view of time is mankind's greatest philosophical victory.

 

 

This makes no sense. Since what keeps time circular in repetition is the wheel. The entire reason that Ishamael joined the Shadow was that the DO is the only entity capable of destroying the Wheel, albeit the DO will probably destroy the pattern along with the Wheel thereby ending existence.

[Seeker]

I feel the end of the last battle will contain a very major twist. Possibly in who and how the DO meets his fate or who knows what. The simple fact that RJ had the ending written first supports that. RJ frequently commented that he had the ending written before anything, which I take to mean it is a component of the story he is proud of and it is hard to imagine that would involve a predictable turn of events.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Rand wins, few major character take a dirt nap, but no major major ones, Dark One dies, everyone else goes home for tea and crumpets

[Ozzie_aiel]

Or kaf and crumpets in you're Seanchan

[johthohar]

Or kaf and crumpets in you're Seanchan

I always assumed "kaf" was coffee.

[Terrel88]

I have won again, Lews Therin...

Flicker, flicker, flicker

[Terez]

You can't just say "Jordan would never let the Shadow win" and automatically assume it's canon. Where is your evidence? And "the good guy always wins" is not evidence.

Ah, but it is:

 

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato - March 1994

There is a flaw inherent in fiction, one that is overcome by suspension of disbelief. We do always know, somewhere in the back of our heads, that the hero is going to make it through as far as he needs to. After all, if Frodo buys the farm, the story is over, kids. The excitement comes in trying to figure out how he can possibly wiggle out, how he can possibly triumph.

[Nooska]

You can't just say "Jordan would never let the Shadow win" and automatically assume it's canon. Where is your evidence? And "the good guy always wins" is not evidence.

Ah, but it is:

 

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato - March 1994

There is a flaw inherent in fiction, one that is overcome by suspension of disbelief. We do always know, somewhere in the back of our heads, that the hero is going to make it through as far as he needs to. After all, if Frodo buys the farm, the story is over, kids. The excitement comes in trying to figure out how he can possibly wiggle out, how he can possibly triumph.

But the truth you think you read is not the truth that is being told.

All the truth there is that the main hero has to survive until the end of the story.

Rj says it, "if Frodo buys the farm, the story is over, kids." - the story ends if it happens, and therefore the ending can easily be the defeat of the good guys - the story doesn't have to have a happy ending, but we know the good guy will survive until the end of the story.

[Elan Tedronai]

this is all some pointless philosophical babble. The bad guys never win anything in WOT. If shaitan wins TG, i will run around naked in the streets of sheffield!

[Incom]

Fain, being the rogue element, does something stupid like backstabbing Rand or turning everyone into zombies. Shadow wins, DO blows everything up. Creator LOLs at DO's puny show of resistance and remakes Wheel. Wheel starts one day before it blows up ("day that dawns twice"). Fain, being the rogue element, decides this time to go after the DO first instead of Rand. DO dies, but Fain gets sealed in the Pit of Doom and is eventually forgotten, slowly becoming a new DO.

 

IDK what else happens.

[Nooska]

this is all some pointless philosophical babble. The bad guys never win anything in WOT. If shaitan wins TG, i will run around naked in the streets of sheffield!

I trust you will have someone take pictures or post a news paper clipping then?

 

I agree it is apointless debate, but only because the ending is already written, and has been for years, not because of the subject being who wins - it can go either way, and if the DO wins that clearly explains why THIS turning was chosen.

[Tollieman]

but Fain gets sealed in the Pit of Doom and is eventually forgotten, slowly becoming a new DO.

 

Which would mean that Man is greatly responsible for the Dark One existing, as a large part of Fain is from Shadar Logoth.

Very cool!