Nakomi

[Terez]

I really, really doubt that Tam would have left a woman to die on Dragonmount without checking thoroughly to see if she was actually dead.

[Jillain Sanche]

agreed

[mossman87]

Quick, easy question. What was it that made the Wise One's push Avi onto Rand and try to get them together in the first place?

[Morsker]

Quick, easy question. What was it that made the Wise One's push Avi onto Rand and try to get them together in the first place?

They want Rand to get Aviehdna pregnant, so that Rand "knows Aeil blood as his own", and thinks of the Aeil as his own people, rather than as a tool. It's terribly manipulative but they fear for the future of their people, especially in light of the prophecy that he'll destroy them.

[Random Man]

Quick, easy question. What was it that made the Wise One's push Avi onto Rand and try to get them together in the first place?

They want Rand to get Aviehdna pregnant, so that Rand "knows Aeil blood as his own", and thinks of the Aeil as his own people, rather than as a tool. It's terribly manipulative but they fear for the future of their people, especially in light of the prophecy that he'll destroy them.

Oddly enough, it seems to be his children that Aviendha sees destroying the Aiel. I wondered if the Wise Ones had seen something in the three rings before reading this -- but it looks like the ones who pushed Aviendha onto Rand might have helped fulfill that particular prophecy in the future.

[didymos]

Quick, easy question. What was it that made the Wise One's push Avi onto Rand and try to get them together in the first place?

They want Rand to get Aviehdna pregnant, so that Rand "knows Aeil blood as his own", and thinks of the Aeil as his own people, rather than as a tool. It's terribly manipulative but they fear for the future of their people, especially in light of the prophecy that he'll destroy them.

 

No. They weren't trying to get Avi knocked up. At most, they hoped that a marriage might come out of having Aviendha be Rand's Aiel tutor. It's not clear that they all expected or wanted that, though. Melaine was the one who was really keen on the idea, and at one point tried to threaten to lay a bridal wreath at Rand's feet herself.

[Bob T Dwarf]

What they wanted was a spy. Somebody on the inside whom they could control, who would tell them everything Rand was doing and planning. Anything beyond that was gravy.

 

With Aviendha they hit the jackpot. She has fulfilled everything they hoped for and more.

 

It's looking like that may not be a good thing long term.

[Braden]

What they wanted was a spy. Somebody on the inside whom they could control, who would tell them everything Rand was doing and planning. Anything beyond that was gravy.

 

With Aviendha they hit the jackpot. She has fulfilled everything they hoped for and more.

 

It's looking like that may not be a good thing long term.

 

Its kind of a little of this and a little of the poster above imo. Though I think Aviendha getting pregnant was never really a part of their plan.

 

Essentially the wise ones knew the prophecy of the Car'acarn breaking the Aiel and they wanted to mitigate it. When he first came to them he treated them solely like a tool, Aviendha was their way of teaching him about them.

 

When your not emotionally connected to something its easy to use it and throw it away. Not so easy when you come to appreciate that same thing and it means alot to someone you love.

 

As for who Nakomi is, I am not sure. I don't believe she is one of the Forsaken though. They would have gained more through simply killing or capturing Rand to force his hand.

[nolirion]

 

It's looking like that may not be a good thing long term.

Like if their relation was not key to the victory in the LB or to Rand or to the aiel in general .

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Essentially the wise ones knew the prophecy of the Car'acarn breaking the Aiel and they wanted to mitigate it. When he first came to them he treated them solely like a tool, Aviendha was their way of teaching him about them.

 

When your not emotionally connected to something its easy to use it and throw it away. Not so easy when you come to appreciate that same thing and it means alot to someone you love.

 

From a touchy-feely standpoint that may make some sense.

 

From a military standpoint, the Aiel are tools to be used and used up as needed in order to achieve victory. As a commander, Rand cannot afford to become more emotionally attached to them than to any other group. A time may come when it's necessary to sacrifice some of them in order to hold here, or advance there, or whatever. If he becomes emotionally attached it just becomes more difficult to make the necessary moves at the proper times. If Rand cannot make the necessary sacrifices at the proper times and places, attaching him to the Aiel may lead to Aiel destruction rather than salvation.

 

But, as we see throughout the series, there is no group that has the intestinal fortitude to resist meddling. The Wise Ones are maybe the least gutsy in this regard. It would only be fitting if ultimately their tampering led to their downfall as a people.

[NetSlider]

How about this - Nakomi is one of the AS that created Rhudian. How you might ask? Well, she simply traveled via portal stone to place where one day equals 100 years of Randland and than reappeared to give heads up. Why she didn't appear before is a mystery but I don't think she will ever appear again. Crazy, I know, but than so am I....MMMMHHHAHAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[Shmuel Goldberg]

Nakomi had a bit of a 'Selene' feel to her. That made me think she might be Cyndane/Lanfear/Mierin. Then Mierin pops up in the Epilogue. Made me think. A true mystery of ToM.

[Mats Spare Hat]

My money's on Nakomi being a dead person/manifestation of the pattern going whacky.

 

Whole villages popping up then disappearing, with dudes sinking into roads? People going looney-toons when the sun goes down, then waking up a-okay in their beds when morning comes? Random woman appearing out of nowhere, having a conversation and then disappearing without a trace? Yeeaahh...Pattern glitch, book it.

[Sabio]

Defiently not a forsaken since Avi's thinks to herself she seems familair. Maybe someone she saw her first time in the rings. Maybe a spirit since seems werid Avi came back and Nakomi's pack and plate were gone. Unlikely she would go off i nthe darkness wait for Avi to loo kfor her then sneak back and grabe her plate and pack. And the things she told Avi was actaully IMO good things for Avi to think about. Before that Avi was in the mindset Aiel would go back to waste and just continue the way things always had been. Wetlands made you week, etc etc.... She even thought while talking to Nakomi that "the Aiel belonged in the three fold land". By talking to Avi she opened Avi's eyes that it was impossible to just go back to way things were.

[Shmuel Goldberg]

Defiently not a forsaken since Avi's thinks to herself she seems familair. Maybe someone she saw her first time in the rings. Maybe a spirit since seems werid Avi came back and Nakomi's pack and plate were gone. Unlikely she would go off i nthe darkness wait for Avi to loo kfor her then sneak back and grabe her plate and pack. And the things she told Avi was actaully IMO good things for Avi to think about. Before that Avi was in the mindset Aiel would go back to waste and just continue the way things always had been. Wetlands made you week, etc etc.... She even thought while talking to Nakomi that "the Aiel belonged in the three fold land". By talking to Avi she opened Avi's eyes that it was impossible to just go back to way things were.

 

Well, Avi actually met Lanfear before (disguised as the fat merchant in the Waste). The feeling of familiarity wouldn't therefore exclude Lanfear (IMHO).

[pattikins]

If she wasn't dead why would she have left her son without seeking him out, especially since she already left one behind before? And this one from a husband she actually loved. Not that she could have had any idea where he was taken off to, I guess. And then let her husband go off to the blight to die? It doesn't fit to me. Unless there was more to the foretelling that Gitara told to her than we've heard..?

 

And then why would she feel the need to hide her identity from Aviendha? But on the other hand she might be one of the few people that actually has the knowledge and foresight to confront Aviendha in this manner. But it still doesn't take into consideration the other oddities.

 

Foretellings are known to leave out certain details. Gitara's in full: "He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

 

I guess Shaiel could have been severely injured and just trying to survive for some time, rescued by the retreating Aiel. Tam could have been too distracted by a screaming baby to be absolutely sure she was dead. Guys are like that, not great multi-taskers in a crisis. Then after learning of her husband's death, Shaiel could have melted into the anonymity of the Aiel culture.

 

It's a very slim possibility (Nakomi=Shaiel), I admit. I had not thought of the discrepancies in the time line making it possible for Nakomi to be Verin-before-death, though I don't really think so because the age is wrong and Avi did not sense channeling ability. And what would Verin's motivation be? Why would she care about the Aiel? Motivation to save the Aiel after the Last Battle fits someone like Shaiel much better.

[Majsju]

If she wasn't dead why would she have left her son without seeking him out, especially since she already left one behind before? And this one from a husband she actually loved. Not that she could have had any idea where he was taken off to, I guess. And then let her husband go off to the blight to die? It doesn't fit to me. Unless there was more to the foretelling that Gitara told to her than we've heard..?

 

And then why would she feel the need to hide her identity from Aviendha? But on the other hand she might be one of the few people that actually has the knowledge and foresight to confront Aviendha in this manner. But it still doesn't take into consideration the other oddities.

 

Foretellings are known to leave out certain details. Gitara's in full: "He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

 

I guess Shaiel could have been severely injured and just trying to survive for some time, rescued by the retreating Aiel. Tam could have been too distracted by a screaming baby to be absolutely sure she was dead. Guys are like that, not great multi-taskers in a crisis. Then after learning of her husband's death, Shaiel could have melted into the anonymity of the Aiel culture.

 

It's a very slim possibility (Nakomi=Shaiel), I admit. I had not thought of the discrepancies in the time line making it possible for Nakomi to be Verin-before-death, though I don't really think so because the age is wrong and Avi did not sense channeling ability. And what would Verin's motivation be? Why would she care about the Aiel? Motivation to save the Aiel after the Last Battle fits someone like Shaiel much better.

 

 

i strongly doubt it would be possible to be anonymous among the Aiel for any longer period of time, since everyone belongs to a clan and a sept. Sooner or later, someone would start asking questions.

 

[pattikins]

Ummmm. . . the Aiel are known both for their extremely closed culture and immersion-adoption into their societies, are they not? Example: Tigraine changing her name when she becomes a maiden. And Shaiel herself probably had no way of knowing what had happened to her baby or even who he was or the significance of the time/place of his birth. And even if she somehow knew at the time or guessed these things over time, there would be lots of motivation for her to refrain from mentioning them as part of a life she had left behind. Common in birth mothers who do not raise their children, from what I know.

 

And what would be the point of some Aiel asking questions or ratting her out? Sounds like piles of toh to me. Now if she had settled in Cairhien. . . different story! No secrets there.

[Sid]

I was listening to the ToM audio book for the first time, and when I got to chapter 39, Kate Reading used the same voice for Nakomi as she had previously done for Verin. Even if I hadn't heard of the Verin = Nakomi theory before, it seems like it would have been an obvious similarity. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything... but maybe it was on purpose?

[smileyman]

I was listening to the ToM audio book for the first time, and when I got to chapter 39, Kate Reading used the same voice for Nakomi as she had previously done for Verin. Even if I hadn't heard of the Verin = Nakomi theory before, it seems like it would have been an obvious similarity. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything... but maybe it was on purpose?

 

Well Kate Reading doesn't have that many different voices to work with, and they don't get any more additional information about plotlines than we do. My guess it's just an oversight.

[Omega]

If she wasn't dead why would she have left her son without seeking him out, especially since she already left one behind before? And this one from a husband she actually loved. Not that she could have had any idea where he was taken off to, I guess. And then let her husband go off to the blight to die? It doesn't fit to me. Unless there was more to the foretelling that Gitara told to her than we've heard..?

 

And then why would she feel the need to hide her identity from Aviendha? But on the other hand she might be one of the few people that actually has the knowledge and foresight to confront Aviendha in this manner. But it still doesn't take into consideration the other oddities.

 

Foretellings are known to leave out certain details. Gitara's in full: "He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"

 

I guess Shaiel could have been severely injured and just trying to survive for some time, rescued by the retreating Aiel. Tam could have been too distracted by a screaming baby to be absolutely sure she was dead. Guys are like that, not great multi-taskers in a crisis. Then after learning of her husband's death, Shaiel could have melted into the anonymity of the Aiel culture.

 

It's a very slim possibility (Nakomi=Shaiel), I admit. I had not thought of the discrepancies in the time line making it possible for Nakomi to be Verin-before-death, though I don't really think so because the age is wrong and Avi did not sense channeling ability. And what would Verin's motivation be? Why would she care about the Aiel? Motivation to save the Aiel after the Last Battle fits someone like Shaiel much better.

 

It could have still been her, I mean with the right weaves you can mask channeling ability, and with yet more weaves you can change your appearance and invert it all.

 

Something that struck me though, is that when asked about her home, she said she was far from it, and not far from it at all, and that perhaps *it* was far from *her*. What if she's an exile or outcast of some sort? I don't know if the Aiel exile at all but its something to think about, perhaps her beliefs were too radical for their time?

[Graveyardhag]

I don't know if this has been mentioned.

I found it interesting how she reffered to things in the past tense. To be specific

"Our land here is called the three-fold land. Three-fold, for three things it did to us. It punished us for sin. It tested our courage. It formed an anvil to shape us

 

Not long after this is the comment about being far from her roof, but not far at all. Or it's far from her.

 

Further on we have

Serving the dragon was the point behind everything we did. Our customs, our raids on each other, our harsh training. . . our very way of life

 

Specifically, everything we did.

 

There might be more I missed as well.

 

Not conclusive of anything, but certaintly interesting.

[pattikins]

Good stuff, Graveyardhag. But what does it all meeeeeeeeeean?

 

Omega, I don't remember anyone in Randland ever being able to mask their channeling abilities, do you? I mean, weaves are weaves, but they can't do absolutely anything.

[dwn]

Good stuff, Graveyardhag. But what does it all meeeeeeeeeean?

 

Omega, I don't remember anyone in Randland ever being able to mask their channeling abilities, do you? I mean, weaves are weaves, but they can't do absolutely anything.

 

We see the female Forsaken mask their ability, completely or partially, all the time. It's one of the things Moghedion teaches Elayne and Nynaeve in LoC. As for masking weaves, 'Inverting' hides a woven web, and 'reversing' hides a web as it's being channelled.

 

-- dwn

[f3llyn]

Moghedian masked hers for a long time. She was with Elayne and Nynaeve and walked through a village of Aes Sedai before they discovered who she was.

 

Edit: I was beatin to it.