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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

smileyman

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  • Birthday 03/02/1977
  1. Because Androl's talent is being able to make Gates without having to have been there, and there's only one of him. It's the element of surprise. He explained the strategy earlier with his card analogy. You can lose 99 hands in a row, but when the last hand comes up and you go all in you can win right there. Sending the Seanchan away would trick Demandred into over-extending his forces for the crushing blow. Once he's over-extended then you bring in the Seanchan. This sort of thing happens all the time in battles--it's called a reserve force, and is something that's pretty important to have.
  2. You're comparing armies of men to armies of Shadowspawn. Did Perrin's army not make camp? There's no way they could have not been overrun over 150 miles. We've been repeatedly told how trollocs can run down a horse. In EotW the small party couldn't outrun trollocs but we are to believe that an entire army outran them for 150 miles? In EoTW the small party didn't outrun the Trollocs in a straight race. They hid from the Trollocs and outmaneuvered them. Same thing in AMoL. It's not about being in a flat out foot race against the Trollocs. It's about maneuvering and hiding so they can't spot you.
  3. It was described as tens of thousands by the people who were fleeing the city. By the time of the actual battle it was very much larger due to reinforcements.
  4. It's not the size of the land that's the problem. It's the dryness. Without fail every single one of the Aiel is shocked by even a small stream of water. A land that dry can not support a population the size of the Aiel. The Waste isn't that large, because it only takes a few days-week for the majority of the Aiel to march to Rhiudean, and only a few days-week for them to march from there to Cairhien. Assuming they're travelling at the pace of a horse, you're going to be looking at a maximum speed of 15-20mph. Even assuming that the Waste is the size of the Western United States (Mississippi river west), that's still not large enough to have a nation of millions when the ground is so dry that there are no trees. It's not acquired through trade because realtively few traders enter the Waste. Conservatively each Aiel warrior has three spears. That means 1 million lengths of wood (assuming that every single length of wood is perfect for making a spear and there are no screw ups when making them). That's not counting the wood for the arrows. Same story for the iron for the arrow heads and spear heads. Yeah it can be gotten through trade, but there's no such existing trade network in the books. Younglings are Warders-in-Training. Some of them will go to existing Aes Sedai, but not the majority of them. There are maybe three new Aes Sedai a year. So why are there almost 1000 Warders-in-Training? There might be 1000 total Warders (many Aes Sedai have no Warders, some have multiple Warders). Are you expecting 100% turnover every year? Every other year? Additionaly, where are these recruits coming from? Most nations want nothing to do with the White Tower. The Two Rivers bowmen are clearly modeled after the English longbowmen. An English longbowmen was expected to be able to shoot 10-12 arrows in the space of a minute. A battle lasts one hour, and that's 600 arrows per archer per hour. Let's say they're only shooting 1/2 that. So we're still looking at 300 arrows per archer per hour of battle. Assuming 200 archers at Edmond's Field that means in a single 4 hour battle you're talking about 240,000 arrows. Figure several days worth of battles and you're talking millions of arrows--conservatively. A small village like Edmond's Field is really going to have that many arrows stockpiled? Once the main attack of the Trollocs started they didn't have access to the forests, which was kind of the point. They especially didn't have enough access to be able to send out work parties to chop down dozens of trees to make the shafts, nor did they have time to forge the arrowheads.
  5. How exactly would this work? The only way for an army of archers to destroy infantry is if the infantry can't get to the archers. This worked for the English at places like Crecy and Agincourt because they had knights, and they were able to use the terrain to force the attacking French knights into a narrow enough space that they couldn't bring the bulk of their army to fight. There's no such terrain available outside of Caemlyn. Archers arrive, Dreadlords sense the channeling, nuke the archers coming out of it, send out Trolloc parties to overwhelm the archers before they can put up their defenses, let the Aes Sedai/Asha'man wear themselves out killing hordes of Trollocs, then kill them, and now you've got still got a vast army of Trollocs with few bowmen, and much depleted in it's heavy artillery. Perrin's army was not just archers. He had the Whitecloaks, the Mayeners, the Ghealdians, and the Wolf Guard in addition to his Two Rivers men. So you've got approximately 80k men vs how many hundreds of thousands of Trollocs? Still wouldn't work.
  6. Think of channelers as artillery on steroids. Just because you have artillery at a fight doesn't mean that the rest of the army is useless.
  7. The Aiel is by far the most egregious example. There is absolutely no way that a nation that size can even live in a place as barren as the Waste, much less thrive. Where's the water coming from to drink? Where are they getting their food? Where are the mines for the ore and the foundries to smelt that ore for the blacksmiths to make iron? Where are the forests of trees necessary to make the bows, spears and arrows of this vast nation of warriors? The size of the Younglings is another one. Gawyn brings almost 600 Younglings with him to Dumai's Wells. Presumably this means there was more of them originally, though I wouldn't put the number higher than 700. We know that there are less than 1000 total Aes Sedai, at least 1/3rd of whom will most likely never bond a Warder (the Red faction with Elaida). The other 2/3rds are composed of Aes Sedai who mostly are either already bonded to a Warder or don't want a Warder. As of TGH, there were only 40 Novices in the White Tower and only 8 or 9 of them will make Accepted. Why in the world do we need almost 1000 Younglings when maybe 3 or 4 Accepted are raised each year? It's not for protection and/or policing of Tar Valon--that's what the Tower Guard is for. The defense of the Two Rivers (even though it's my all time favorite section in the WoT) also bugs me, but that's just because of the arrow situation. It's like RJ said--yup, we've got unlimited arrows here. We'll have a scene or two showing men fletching arrows and what not, even though that wouldn't begin to cover the demand. An English longbowman was supposed to be able to fire 10-12 aimed (for a loose definition of aimed) per minute. The way that the defense of Two Rivers is described it would take millions of arrows to be able to beat off the Trolloc army. Where did they get the steel for the arrow heads? The goose feathers for the fletchings? The glue and twine and rope to put the fletchings and arrowheads on? Where are the vast forests of trees that were cut down to provide said arrows and bows? Stuff like this is in almost every single book. RJ is very detailed and precise when it comes to numbers, which is great for a sense of realism, but it totally screws with reality because of the lack of any kind of support system for those numbers.
  8. Battles throughout the entire series have been very unrealistic. It's not just the battles in this book. I've complained about tactics, strategy, and most especially logistics for as long as I can remember. You can not seriously be saying you didn't notice the issues with battles being far greater in AMoL? Take issue with details in the earlier books by all means but to pretend like there was no problem with numbers and tactics here is absurd. Someone needs to chill out. I actually don't have issues with the overall strategy used, and I've already explained why. I've also already commented on the numbers and logistics of the Wheel of Time--numbers and logistics which have been way off going back to the very near the beginning of the series.
  9. You're making the argument that Dem thought the battle between Rand and the DO was over? Possibly. Or he thought that the battle hadn't been fought yet, or that someone else was thinking it.
  10. Maybe unsubtle was a bad word. It just felt like he was telling us for the sake of telling us. There was no point to Algarin/Emarin or Baldhere liking men, it just seemed like they told us because they'd promised to tell us. With Elaida and Meidani, and Galina Casban and whatshername, there was a point about telling us. It explained things about the characters' interactions with each other. So what was the point with Seonid? How is that any different from Baldhere and Emarin? And yet it wouldn't bother you if you learned that either liked to drink hot chocolate on a rainy day. Thank you. That's a perfect analogy. It's one thing to complain about it if it's mentioned every other chapter (e.g. Nynaeve tugging on her braid when she was angry), but when it's just casually dropped and no fuss or muss made about it? Especially when there isn't any criticism labled at how unsubtle the heterosexual relationships are.
  11. How exactly would this work? The only way for an army of archers to destroy infantry is if the infantry can't get to the archers. This worked for the English at places like Crecy and Agincourt because they had knights, and they were able to use the terrain to force the attacking French knights into a narrow enough space that they couldn't bring the bulk of their army to fight. There's no such terrain available outside of Caemlyn. Archers arrive, Dreadlords sense the channeling, nuke the archers coming out of it, send out Trolloc parties to overwhelm the archers before they can put up their defenses, let the Aes Sedai/Asha'man wear themselves out killing hordes of Trollocs, then kill them, and now you've got still got a vast army of Trollocs with few bowmen, and much depleted in it's heavy artillery.
  12. it was 150 miles but still WAY to far. for any force to travel 150 miles to get some archers. it is like an army attcking London for the people in london to chase them 30 miles north of Nottingham. go look at google maps it is crazy No it's not. The French let the English march over 350 miles from Harfleur before forcing them to fight at Agincourt.
  13. I wanted to address two common complaints that I've seen in this thread, using real life examples from the campaign of Henry V during the 100 Years War. The first complaint is why the Armies of Light fought in Braemlyn Wood, which was 50 leagues away from Caemlyn. The argument is that it makes absolutely no sense to fight an army 125-150 miles ( one league is roughly 3 miles) away from the city that they had taken. We need to remember that the object of the Dark is to crush the Armies of Light. Not simply to take a city and hold it, so they have to come out and fight the Armies of Light. This gives the Light a chance to pick their own ground to force the major conflict. In the 100 Years War Henry V invaded France and attacked the port town of Harfleur. After a somewhat lengthy siege the city fell Sept 22, which was late in the campaign season. Henry V's army was worn out, sick (dysentry had moved among the men), and low on food and supplies, so he decided that rather than go back to England after only one town he'd march north to the English town of Calais and get re-supplied there and then resume the campaign in the spring. Along his march the French army shadowed him. There had been a force gathered to relieve Harfleur before that town fell and other nobles and their retinues gathered along the way. Meanwhile a large contingent of men was being gathered to bring the English army to battle on terrain more favorable to the French. This, of course, was Agincourt. The distance from Harfleur to Agincourt is about 350 miles, more than twice the distance from Caemlyn to Braemlyn Wood. The second issue that keeps getting brought up is why Demandred was calling out for LTT (with a side issue being why he didn't just blast Galad, Gawyn, and Lan to pieces with the One Power or True Power. There's precedent there as well. In the same campaign as Agincourt, Henry V challenged the French Prince to single combat as a way to resolve the conflict. (He didn't challenge the French King directly because Charles VI was both physically ill and also suffered from some mental illness.) Single combat is an important part of the chivalric and medieval cultures and there are more examples of contestants fighting duels in the midst of a battle.
  14. Battles throughout the entire series have been very unrealistic. It's not just the battles in this book. I've complained about tactics, strategy, and most especially logistics for as long as I can remember.
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