Mat's Arc

[Erunion]

I kind of get the idea that Sanderson is willing to write the Outriggers, but the final decision hasn't been made. From what I remember from reading interviews, he's a little uncomfortable with the idea, but is willing to if Harriet/the Fans really, really want him to. I do know he has said that he will not write any outriggers, prequels or sequels to the WOT that were not planned by Jordan, as he thinks this is just money-grubbing and dirtying the name of the series.

I, personally, really hope the Mat outriggers get written.

 

Now, as Robert Jordan planned these outriggers, and probably wrote at least some notes on them, we can surmise that they are canon. As such, we know three things.

#1: The good guys will win the Last Battle (big surprise, there.)

#2: Mat and Tuon will survive the Last Battle, for at least 10 years, probably for much longer.

#3: The Seanchan on the mainland will eventually be in a position to reclaim their homeland, so they'll still have decent sized armies that they can send around the world post TG.

[nolirion]

I kind of get the idea that Sanderson is willing to write the Outriggers, but the final decision hasn't been made. From what I remember from reading interviews, he's a little uncomfortable with the idea, but is willing to if Harriet/the Fans really, really want him to. I do know he has said that he will not write any outriggers, prequels or sequels to the WOT that were not planned by Jordan, as he thinks this is just money-grubbing and dirtying the name of the series.

I, personally, really hope the Mat outriggers get written.

 

Now, as Robert Jordan planned these outriggers, and probably wrote at least some notes on them, we can surmise that they are canon. As such, we know three things.

#1: The good guys will win the Last Battle (big surprise, there.)

#2: Mat and Tuon will survive the Last Battle, for at least 10 years, probably for much longer.

#3: The Seanchan on the mainland will eventually be in a position to reclaim their homeland, so they'll still have decent sized armies that they can send around the world post TG.

Those novel are about if i recall how Tam found and rise Rand and How Lan and Morraine came to the TV no?

And he said exactly that

I kind of get the idea that Sanderson is willing to write the Outriggers, but the final decision hasn't been made. From what I remember from reading interviews, he's a little uncomfortable with the idea, but is willing to if Harriet/the Fans really, really want him to. I do know he has said that he will not write any outriggers, prequels or sequels to the WOT that were not planned by Jordan, as he thinks this is just money-grubbing and dirtying the name of the series.

he said he was uncertain about writing them but definitely uncomfortable and he will not wrote anything else(sequel) then those planed by Jordan.

Sorry to double post

[Deadsy]

Those novel are about if i recall how Tam found and rise Rand and How Lan and Morraine came to the TV no?

 

I think one was Tam's time in Illian, and I'm certain the other is about Moiraine's first trip to the Eye of the World.

And the 3 outriggers are about Mat and Tuon in Seanchan.

[Majsju]

Those novel are about if i recall how Tam found and rise Rand and How Lan and Morraine came to the TV no?

 

I think one was Tam's time in Illian, and I'm certain the other is about Moiraine's first trip to the Eye of the World.

And the 3 outriggers are about Mat and Tuon in Seanchan.

 

A bit more than that. The Tam novel would have been about why he decided to leave EF, and how he ended up in Illian. How does a farmer from the middle of nowhere become so good with the sword, etc.

 

The Moiraine novel would have focused on how she could arrive in EF just in time.

[nolirion]

Those novel are about if i recall how Tam found and rise Rand and How Lan and Morraine came to the TV no?

 

I think one was Tam's time in Illian, and I'm certain the other is about Moiraine's first trip to the Eye of the World.

And the 3 outriggers are about Mat and Tuon in Seanchan.

 

A bit more than that. The Tam novel would have been about why he decided to leave EF, and how he ended up in Illian. How does a farmer from the middle of nowhere become so good with the sword, etc.

 

The Moiraine novel would have focused on how she could arrive in EF just in time.

Manetheren blood dude , the old blood is singing

[smileyman]

I kind of get the idea that Sanderson is willing to write the Outriggers, but the final decision hasn't been made. From what I remember from reading interviews, he's a little uncomfortable with the idea, but is willing to if Harriet/the Fans really, really want him to. I do know he has said that he will not write any outriggers, prequels or sequels to the WOT that were not planned by Jordan, as he thinks this is just money-grubbing and dirtying the name of the series.

I, personally, really hope the Mat outriggers get written.

 

Now, as Robert Jordan planned these outriggers, and probably wrote at least some notes on them, we can surmise that they are canon. As such, we know three things.

#1: The good guys will win the Last Battle (big surprise, there.)

#2: Mat and Tuon will survive the Last Battle, for at least 10 years, probably for much longer.

#3: The Seanchan on the mainland will eventually be in a position to reclaim their homeland, so they'll still have decent sized armies that they can send around the world post TG.

Those novel are about if i recall how Tam found and rise Rand and How Lan and Morraine came to the TV no?

And he said exactly that

I kind of get the idea that Sanderson is willing to write the Outriggers, but the final decision hasn't been made. From what I remember from reading interviews, he's a little uncomfortable with the idea, but is willing to if Harriet/the Fans really, really want him to. I do know he has said that he will not write any outriggers, prequels or sequels to the WOT that were not planned by Jordan, as he thinks this is just money-grubbing and dirtying the name of the series.

he said he was uncertain about writing them but definitely uncomfortable and he will not wrote anything else(sequel) then those planed by Jordan.

Sorry to double post

 

There's an interview around (I'll have to hunt the link down), where Brandon says he advised Harriet and TOR not to publish the novels. He doesn't want to do them, but will if asked, but only those 5 (the prequels and the outriggers).

[gary0044187]

3) Them finding out that their version of the prophecies are corrupt.

 

How are their prophecies corrupt? The blind man has been on his tomb (or whatever). The dragon has already knelt before the throne (at least before Fortuona, she just doesn't know it). he did so in Ebou Dar when he got sick on the bridge when he wanted to blast the palace out of existence, he fell to his knees then. I do not remember any of the rest, but I was pretty sure he has done everything the seanchan fortold. Tuon was able to resist him before because the pattern knew he needed to adapt, now, when they meet again, the pattern will be on his side, not hers. At least that's how I see it.

 

We have even seen how much of the shadow's prophecies are coming true, why would the seanchan ones not be?

[nolirion]

3) Them finding out that their version of the prophecies are corrupt.

 

The dragon has already knelt before the throne (at least before Fortuona, she just doesn't know it).

 

In fact this particular one is corrupt , it is "he will bind to him the daughter of the nine moon" or something like that .

[Deadsy]

How are their prophecies corrupt? The blind man has been on his tomb (or whatever)

 

That's from the Essanik Cycle, which doesn't exist at all outside of Seanchan.

 

The one that has the difference between bind the nine moons and kneel before the throne is the Karaethon Cycle.

[Duskfire]

It'll be funny if Mat actually does die but Tuon gets pregnant before he does and she calls her son Mat. And thats what the outrigger novels are about - RJ just wanted to throw us off :P

[Cirin]

Maybe Mat is killed and Fortuona marries Mattin Steppanos, or however his last name is spelled. I bet that's it.

[Lancer]

I'll make a Moiraine thread in a few days.

 

Largely I thought Mat was much better written. That letter to Elayne irritated me though. If it had been posted on the board as a joke I'd have laughed, but in the book it seemed a cheap gimmick. A parody of what Mat would actually have said. Authors can play with words, but then need to be cautious--Mat is not an author. That sort of word play is not in him. 'To Her Royal Majesty, Stop Being A Royal Pain In My Backside And Agree To A Meeting.' Yes. Very Mat. The overwrought clever crossback? Not a chance.

 

I would have to respectfully disagree...Mat is a character I can associate w/ because we have much the same personality. That letter was Classic Mat trying to be "Diplomatic and Respectful" but at the same time all of his usual "Charm"

 

Mat is the classic "Reluctant Hero" that has filled into his role by circumstance. He doesn't have to like that he is a Prince or a Leader or a Hero but he lives for the hero role and ALWAYS keeps his promise. He is one of those guys who if you met in RL you would either love him or hate him. There isn't any middle ground w/ Mat.

 

I was ROFL during that letter, because I have written similar letters in my lifetime. It's what you call a Backhanded Compliment or Smartass Respect.

 

IMHO Mat was done very well in this book and I can't wait for him to sweep Fortuona off her feet and win the day.

[carridin1]

Alright, I've seen a few people ask about Lanfear's death...so I'm gonna take a crack at it.

 

Moiraine explains how Lanfear died. The Finns fed on her Power too fast and caused her to die (Moirain says the Finns claimed this, so they could be lying). This is why Moiraine is weaker in the power, the Finns ate it. This probably explains why she has lesser power now after transmigrating souls. This, to me at least, probably means that when "the man" came to rescue Lanfear, she was probably dead already. the man could is any number of possibilities, but probably is Moridin or was sent by him.

At the very least, it explains why they are weaker in the Power.

 

Moiraine also suggested that the Eelfinn were lying about that to make her afraid. If Lanfear had died, the DO would know and no rescue would have been needed; whether or he would have transmigrated her soul is a separate question.

 

Lanfear either survived *Finnland and was transmigrated later for reason... or she received a different body as a result of her demands of the Eelfinn. I tend to think it was the second option, and that her new (or changed) body was a creative interpretation of a wish.

 

Speculation time

 

So what did she wish for? This is Lanfear, so one obvious thing is: "I want Lews Therin to love me again."

 

It would take more than a body swap, of course, but not recognizing her is what drew Rand to Cyndane in his dream. Seeing Lanfear there would not have evoked that response. Getting close allowed him to 'see her soul' and remember his one-time love for her.

 

-- dwn

I always assumed that Lanfear never died at all. Notice when she met Alivia in battle, Lanfear thought to herself that Alivia was “More powerful than I was before being held prisoner by the Ailfinn. That should be impossible.” (Or something close to that, I’m going on memory.)

 

Now, you’d think dying and being reborn in a new body would stand out in your mind. You’d see that as the key experience beyond the doorframe, not just being held prisoner before dying. It seems curious that she did not frame the thought as “before I died and was reborn.”

 

Also, the “Impossible” comment is strange. Why would that be impossible?

 

I think Lanfear went through the doorway some time in the age of legends. I think her wishes were “I want to be super beautiful, I want to be the most powerful female channeler in the world, and (perhaps) I want Lews Therin to fall in love with me.” When Lanfear then fell into their clutches again, the snakes and foxes saw no reason to go on honoring her previous wishes.

 

So, she reverted to her original appearance (cute, but not stunning) and power level (powerful, but not overwhelming) before someone came and sprung her. I think she assumed it was impossible for Alivia to be more powerful, because Lanfear was the most powerful gal in the AoL, and none of these “half-trained girls” could top that.

 

 

I don't think so. Mo said that they both got there wishes.

 

Well OK, but they still could have revoked her previous wishes. In any case, then what do you think Lanfear's inner monologue meant?

[dwn]

Alright, I've seen a few people ask about Lanfear's death...so I'm gonna take a crack at it.

 

Moiraine explains how Lanfear died. The Finns fed on her Power too fast and caused her to die (Moirain says the Finns claimed this, so they could be lying). This is why Moiraine is weaker in the power, the Finns ate it. This probably explains why she has lesser power now after transmigrating souls. This, to me at least, probably means that when "the man" came to rescue Lanfear, she was probably dead already. the man could is any number of possibilities, but probably is Moridin or was sent by him.

At the very least, it explains why they are weaker in the Power.

 

Moiraine also suggested that the Eelfinn were lying about that to make her afraid. If Lanfear had died, the DO would know and no rescue would have been needed; whether or he would have transmigrated her soul is a separate question.

 

Lanfear either survived *Finnland and was transmigrated later for reason... or she received a different body as a result of her demands of the Eelfinn. I tend to think it was the second option, and that her new (or changed) body was a creative interpretation of a wish.

 

Speculation time

 

So what did she wish for? This is Lanfear, so one obvious thing is: "I want Lews Therin to love me again."

 

It would take more than a body swap, of course, but not recognizing her is what drew Rand to Cyndane in his dream. Seeing Lanfear there would not have evoked that response. Getting close allowed him to 'see her soul' and remember his one-time love for her.

 

-- dwn

I always assumed that Lanfear never died at all. Notice when she met Alivia in battle, Lanfear thought to herself that Alivia was “More powerful than I was before being held prisoner by the Ailfinn. That should be impossible.” (Or something close to that, I’m going on memory.)

 

Now, you’d think dying and being reborn in a new body would stand out in your mind. You’d see that as the key experience beyond the doorframe, not just being held prisoner before dying. It seems curious that she did not frame the thought as “before I died and was reborn.”

 

Also, the “Impossible” comment is strange. Why would that be impossible?

 

I think Lanfear went through the doorway some time in the age of legends. I think her wishes were “I want to be super beautiful, I want to be the most powerful female channeler in the world, and (perhaps) I want Lews Therin to fall in love with me.” When Lanfear then fell into their clutches again, the snakes and foxes saw no reason to go on honoring her previous wishes.

 

So, she reverted to her original appearance (cute, but not stunning) and power level (powerful, but not overwhelming) before someone came and sprung her. I think she assumed it was impossible for Alivia to be more powerful, because Lanfear was the most powerful gal in the AoL, and none of these “half-trained girls” could top that.

 

 

I don't think so. Mo said that they both got there wishes.

 

Well OK, but they still could have revoked her previous wishes. In any case, then what do you think Lanfear's inner monologue meant?

 

It meant: "I was the the strongest women in all of the recorded history of the AoL! How dare any of these pitiful 3rd age worms even come close to--let alone exceed--my sheer awesomeness!" Lanfear, also known as Miss Lets-Suplant-The-Creator-And-Dark-Lord, is surely arrogant enough to speak with some hyperbole.

 

-- dwn

[l_uniquefeuille]

I don't know if anyone else felt it, but what I found out of place was Thom referring to Mat as "Son" in the last chapter. Well, not referring exectly saying something like "Sometimes Son,...." I hope u get the idea. I found it out of character because, the relationship b/w Thom and the Big Three are those of friends. He generally doesn't patronize because of his age(mostly by his superior experiences). The only person he has a father-child bond to is Elayne(maybe her siblings as well).

 

Not that this is of any significance at all, but I just found it out of character.

[Hatrel]

Alright, I've seen a few people ask about Lanfear's death...so I'm gonna take a crack at it.

 

Moiraine explains how Lanfear died. The Finns fed on her Power too fast and caused her to die (Moirain says the Finns claimed this, so they could be lying). This is why Moiraine is weaker in the power, the Finns ate it. This probably explains why she has lesser power now after transmigrating souls. This, to me at least, probably means that when "the man" came to rescue Lanfear, she was probably dead already. the man could is any number of possibilities, but probably is Moridin or was sent by him.

At the very least, it explains why they are weaker in the Power.

 

Moiraine also suggested that the Eelfinn were lying about that to make her afraid. If Lanfear had died, the DO would know and no rescue would have been needed; whether or he would have transmigrated her soul is a separate question.

 

Lanfear either survived *Finnland and was transmigrated later for reason... or she received a different body as a result of her demands of the Eelfinn. I tend to think it was the second option, and that her new (or changed) body was a creative interpretation of a wish.

 

Speculation time

 

So what did she wish for? This is Lanfear, so one obvious thing is: "I want Lews Therin to love me again."

 

It would take more than a body swap, of course, but not recognizing her is what drew Rand to Cyndane in his dream. Seeing Lanfear there would not have evoked that response. Getting close allowed him to 'see her soul' and remember his one-time love for her.

 

-- dwn

I always assumed that Lanfear never died at all. Notice when she met Alivia in battle, Lanfear thought to herself that Alivia was “More powerful than I was before being held prisoner by the Ailfinn. That should be impossible.” (Or something close to that, I’m going on memory.)

 

Now, you’d think dying and being reborn in a new body would stand out in your mind. You’d see that as the key experience beyond the doorframe, not just being held prisoner before dying. It seems curious that she did not frame the thought as “before I died and was reborn.”

 

Also, the “Impossible” comment is strange. Why would that be impossible?

 

I think Lanfear went through the doorway some time in the age of legends. I think her wishes were “I want to be super beautiful, I want to be the most powerful female channeler in the world, and (perhaps) I want Lews Therin to fall in love with me.” When Lanfear then fell into their clutches again, the snakes and foxes saw no reason to go on honoring her previous wishes.

 

So, she reverted to her original appearance (cute, but not stunning) and power level (powerful, but not overwhelming) before someone came and sprung her. I think she assumed it was impossible for Alivia to be more powerful, because Lanfear was the most powerful gal in the AoL, and none of these “half-trained girls” could top that.

 

 

I don't think so. Mo said that they both got there wishes.

 

Well OK, but they still could have revoked her previous wishes. In any case, then what do you think Lanfear's inner monologue meant?

 

It meant: "I was the the strongest women in all of the recorded history of the AoL! How dare any of these pitiful 3rd age worms even come close to--let alone exceed--my sheer awesomeness!" Lanfear, also known as Miss Lets-Suplant-The-Creator-And-Dark-Lord, is surely arrogant enough to speak with some hyperbole.

 

-- dwn

My only concern is that I do not think that you can enter the doorway twice. (Obviously if you enter the Towers directly, it can work...) I seem to recall Mat trying at one point and nothing happened. So I do not think that Lanfear could have seen the Foxes before since she likely would have fallen through the doorway and hit the wagon it was sitting on. Unless because she was locked in physical contact with Moiraine that it allowed her to enter a second time.

[jemron]

I just want to say, the thought of Mat with an eyepatch seems so cool to me, and I think it will add to his costume/look perfectly.

 

Also, has anybody noticed that we all tend to HATE the covers of the Wheel of Time, but every single costume representation of Mat by fans has him looking exactly like the Mat on tFoH cover? I've always wondered why...

[Vermillion]

I just want to say, the thought of Mat with an eyepatch seems so cool to me, and I think it will add to his costume/look perfectly.

 

Also, has anybody noticed that we all tend to HATE the covers of the Wheel of Time, but every single costume representation of Mat by fans has him looking exactly like the Mat on tFoH cover? I've always wondered why...

 

I'd say that that one was fairly good representation of what most of us think of Mat.

[NetSlider]

I just want to say, the thought of Mat with an eyepatch seems so cool to me, and I think it will add to his costume/look perfectly.

 

Also, has anybody noticed that we all tend to HATE the covers of the Wheel of Time, but every single costume representation of Mat by fans has him looking exactly like the Mat on tFoH cover? I've always wondered why...

 

I'd say that that one was fairly good representation of what most of us think of Mat.

 

 

I have to agree that the idea of Mat with eyepatch with foxhead on it, in silver of course (my personal touch) and bold with a scarf and the hat...i mean, badass all around man!

 

 

As far as Mat goes, I recently saw this http://solitarium.deviantart.com/art/MAT-CAUTHON-18419061 and really like it, the eyes are just laughing...like fool's eyes...classic Mat.

[shaiel]

Mats arc in ToM was simply awesome, ToG arc made me shiver :)

that letter was a little bit out of character, but nevermind. it was really, really funny so i dont see that huge problem everyones talking about.

 

Anyone else wish there had been 100+ more pages of Mat in the book and less of Perrin/Egwene? I really hope the last book has a heavy dose of Mat/Fortuona.

I do agree with you, i expected a lot much mat POWs in this book and i think there was really too much WT plots. egwene, like tuon, is doing everything to look unpleasant and she's doing wery well, better than tuon.. she makes gawyn look plaesant!! and what about perrin? there are simply too many perrin chapters, i know this is "perrin redemption book" but come on! because of all that stuff, ToG arc is at the end of the book. id like read it sooner.

 

does anybody remember egwenes dream in APOD? When mat was with the two AS on the balance and making an important decision, and the world would depend on it? maybe the two AS were moiraine and verin. mat made his decision, not opening verins letter and going to rescue moir. Did this influence the world's destiny? he could do both, opening the letter and then going to save moir. did he do something very bad leaving caemlyn burning?

really... i cant understand this dream.

 

ps: olver is not so phsyco, its normal for someone like him being "strange"

[qbicrubik]

Anyone got bugged out when the word "technology" was used by Mat in chapter 19 ToM? Mat was telling Elayne not to sell the dragon "technology" to anyone.

I was seriously into this and picturing the whole world of WoT in my head but the word alone snapped me back to reality for some reason.

 

Please anyone make sense of all this...

[dwn]

Anyone got bugged out when the word "technology" was used by Mat in chapter 19 ToM? Mat was telling Elayne not to sell the dragon "technology" to anyone.

I was seriously into this and picturing the whole world of WoT in my head but the word alone snapped me back to reality for some reason.

 

Please anyone make sense of all this...

 

It's the only word for that situation, though. My dictionary places the origin of 'technology' in the 17th century, so it's not really out of place.

 

-- dwn

[qbicrubik]

Anyone got bugged out when the word "technology" was used by Mat in chapter 19 ToM? Mat was telling Elayne not to sell the dragon "technology" to anyone.

I was seriously into this and picturing the whole world of WoT in my head but the word alone snapped me back to reality for some reason.

 

Please anyone make sense of all this...

 

It's the only word for that situation, though. My dictionary places the origin of 'technology' in the 17th century, so it's not really out of place.

 

-- dwn

 

Thank god, I had a nightmare that it might turn into a sci-fi while I'm not looking. Same goes with "network" but RJ did mention that word in his previous books. e.g: Blue network.

[Jamesmb]

While I agree that Mat in this book was an improvement from the last, I still felt his character was exaggerated. The seemed to become more pronounced as the book goes on as well, by which the end I couldn't help but see Mat as a country bumkin, struggling with words and almost forcefully cursing (I recall his earlier uses of "bloody this and that" feeling more natural in their timing).

 

It's very hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like Sanderson has had Mat talk a lot more than he ever has in the series which would make it harder to keep him in character. He isn't quite the "Jokester" that he is being made out to be. Mat seemed to typically stay mostly quiet and observatory and occasionally piping up with opinions that are sometimes outrageous to his audience... but then proves that his speculations were correct to everyone's surprise. Now, while he has always been the most sarcastic, he hardly ever came off as buffoonish or uneducated... especially after he gets his memories.

 

What I see is that Sanderson has written Mat how Sanderson sees him, and I can't fault him for that. I just find myself becoming more aware of the differences the more I read, which is causing me to become more critical.

 

On a side note, I thought Birgette also ended up being portrayed similarly oafish in this book... again, more so towards the end.

[wvlr2]

While I agree that Mat in this book was an improvement from the last, I still felt his character was exaggerated. The seemed to become more pronounced as the book goes on as well, by which the end I couldn't help but see Mat as a country bumkin, struggling with words and almost forcefully cursing (I recall his earlier uses of "bloody this and that" feeling more natural in their timing).

 

It's very hard to put my finger on it, but I feel like Sanderson has had Mat talk a lot more than he ever has in the series which would make it harder to keep him in character. He isn't quite the "Jokester" that he is being made out to be. Mat seemed to typically stay mostly quiet and observatory and occasionally piping up with opinions that are sometimes outrageous to his audience... but then proves that he right the whole time. Now, while he has always been the most sarcastic, he hardly ever came off as buffoonish.

 

What I see is that Sanderson has written Mat how Sanderson sees him, and I can't fault him for that. I just find myself becoming more aware of the differences the more I read, which is causing me to become more critical.

 

The only time I can remember when Mat was not always joking around was when he had the SL Dagger. Always before and after he was joking to me. That is just the was I see it.

 

 

But he is really going to piss me off if he gives Tuon one of his "foxheads"! I am sure she already stole his crossbow crank for the Seanchan.

 

I think that the Seanchan can copy the "foxhead" real easy like they do the A'dams. If he gives them one to do it, it will be the dumbest thing that he ever did. That is saying something for Mat because he has really done some dumb stuff.