The Seven Striped-Lass

[Terez]

We weren't exactly given a lot of details on their sex life. And for that matter, we don't know for sure that Perrin's visions have to refer to the future; at least some of them have referred to the present.

[Sid]

regardless, I still think he's taking the medallion with him to the tower

[Terez]

No one cares. ;) Opinions are like assholes; everybody's got one.

[SvetSedi]

We weren't exactly given a lot of details on their sex life. And for that matter, we don't know for sure that Perrin's visions have to refer to the future; at least some of them have referred to the present.

 

I disagree - we were given entirely way too much detail in this area. It made me gag on every Mat chapter for several books. Then I had to put up with Tuon! Not the same but very irritating in her own way. Mat is one of my favorite characters. These women were ruin him! As Faile did Perrin!

 

Maybe the golom will be kind enough to kill them both (Tuon and Faile)early in the next book for me! Maybe they were both taking a sweatbath together in a tent near the capitol of Andor! :D

[shaiel]

Maybe the golom will be kind enough to kill them both (Tuon and Faile)early in the next book for me! Maybe they were both taking a sweatbath together in a tent near the capitol of Andor! :D

Are you saying they are both dead in the tent? xD

It could be intresting LOL

[Suttree]

On the whole I enjoyed this chapter and was super stoked to be reading new material. But man how cringe worthy were some of those parts with Mat thinking about/dealing with woman? I'm coming to think that Brandon just really doesn't get how to write this cool roguish type of character. I understand he is trying to show the changes since Mat's marriage but It just feels really forced and over the top. Anybody else out there have similar thoughts?

[Jong]

I loved the chapter.

 

As far as the timeline...

 

We have seen places move and change for a few books now. We have seen whole villages appear and disappear. The dead walking, etc... The pattern is people, places, and events, the pattern is the story. Its possible that the pattern is so damaged that the story is changing?

 

It seems a bit too startrek but it does fit with what we are seeing elsewhere imo.

[PrncRny]

I loved the chapter.

 

As far as the timeline...

 

We have seen places move and change for a few books now. We have seen whole villages appear and disappear. The dead walking, etc... The pattern is people, places, and events, the pattern is the story. Its possible that the pattern is so damaged that the story is changing?

 

It seems a bit too startrek but it does fit with what we are seeing elsewhere imo.

 

That seems a bit far fetched, though not completely out of the question. I don't think that I like the idea, though. Gives too much room for changing things that don't need to be changed.

But then, change IS inevitable. The pattern doesn't have to be falling apart for THAT to be true.

[Pandemonium]

The medallion is only a means of protection in the hands of someone who is skilled enough to use it.

What is your point? Mat has two choices: leave the medallion with her so that she has a chance in hell, or do nothing. It's clear from this chapter that he will not choose the latter. He might give it to Birgitte, even, but he will leave it for the purpose of protecting Elayne.

 

it does not matter if he gives the medallion to Elayne or not, she would not have a chance in hell anyway. She could have a dozen medallions, and still not have a chance in hell. In case you have forgotten, the medallion does not instantly kill the Gholam on contact, it only hurts it. And from the looks of it, it was mostly shock over having been hurts that made the Gholam run away, rather than any unbearable pain that would stop it from keep fighting. Only difference it would make is that Mat would lose his medallion, just when he has found out that the forsaken have started to take an interest in seeing him dead.

The smart thing to do (and Mat is a pretty bright lad, even if he likes to pretend he is not) would be for Mat to warn Elayne about the Gholam being in Caemlyn, then talk to Birgitte about it, convincing her to make sure there is always a channeler close to Elayne, ready to open a gateway at the first sign of trouble. Then Mat can take his medallion and head for the TOG, trying to lure the Gholam away from Caemlyn since it was him it followed in the first place.

 

 

Giving Elayne the medallion for protectoion against the Gholam would be about as useful as giving Min Callandor for protection against a forsaken.

 

I don't know if anyone read my predictions in the TOM prediction page, but my specific prediction was that Elayne would figure out a way to duplicate the foxhead and shape it into an arrow. The foxhead, in its current state, is most likely not capable of killing the gholam-- only of burning the gholam's flesh superficially. The foxhead most likely needs to shaped into something sharp that can penetrate the gholam's skin for a killing blow.

 

Remember that the foxhead is a SILVER foxhead. What was Birgitte's legendary arrow made of? Doesn't it just seem natural that a silver ter'angreal arrow will be created for Birgitte? Elayne now has everyone she needs in order to duplicate the foxhead. Previously we have seen Setalle Anan's fascination with Mat's foxhead and I think this is a foreshadowing of what will come. Once Anan and Elayne meet I belief that Elayne will somehow discover and utilize Setalle's previous talents with ter'angreal. I also think that Setalle may even show Elayne a way to figure out who has the talent for ter'angreal and find this ability in a Kin member. Elayne is incapable of consistent channeling right now and Setalle is incapable of channeling at all, so there is going to be a need to find another channeler who can do the grunt work.

 

Birgitte is really the only person in Caemlyn, other than Mat, that is capable of killing the gholam. As long as Birgitte can keep her distance and spot the gholam in time she may have a chance to kill the gholam. Of course, Elayne is going to have to be the bait that keeps the gholam still enough for Birgitte to get a good shot off.

 

This is just a theory, and this chapter presents some problems to this theory-- the main problem being that the gholam is already in town and Elayne has very little time left to make the proper arrangements necessary before the gholam strikes again.

 

I actually created this theory well before TGS was released and a lot of people disagreed with me that Mat was even going to head to Caemlyn. Well I successfully predicted the 1st part of the theory that Mat would head to Caemlyn before going to the ToG, now lets see if the rest of my theory holds up.

[jimburt372]

I really enjoyed this chapter. I think that Matt's POV was right on target. I do think that my favorite part was just that it is new WoT material, YEAH!!!!

 

The time line issues do seem a little out of line, but Brandon isn't the only person reviewing this material. Harriett has to check off on it, and I have even seen a video (not sure if it was on DM or youtube, or where, sorry) where 2 people were 'introduced' and talked about their responsibilities in keeping everything 'in line' as the writing moves forward. Both of these people (I forget there names now) have been working on WoT for a large number of years, working with Jim (Robert Jordan). I think that the time line is 'correct as intended' although that does not have to mean that it would match up properly with a 'normal' chronological order of events, say back in the early books of the series, when everything wasn't unraveling nearly as much.

 

I am hoping to finish my re-read of the entire series just in time for the full release on 11-2-10. I will be starting Knife of Dreams tomorrow, and hope time finish The Gathering Storm in time for everything to still be fresh when I read Towers of Midnight.

 

I look forward to seeing what happens. I have pre-ordered my Prologue, and anxiously await Midnight next Monday night/Tuesday Morning.

[Kaznen]

Wow! Read the chapter- am left wanting more. Somebody said it already, but you figure Elayne would have sent for Thom at the very least, even just to tug his mustache. Woof™.

I'm thinking she's pulling that crap she pulled in LoC when he showed up in Salidar and they left for Ebou Dar, let him stew for a while then undermine his authority with his men so they start to see themselves as her soldiers instead of his.

[Hael Me]

Yeah, that was a taster. Some points:

 

a.] The cliffhanger: Blood. Emanating from a dismembered corpse maybe? Or from some kind of messenger covered in blood waiting in Mat's tent?

 

b.] The Gholam. Mat has Travelled to Caemlyn. How did the Gholam get there so fast? In the War of Power, there were six Gholam, all made by Aginor. How many of them are on the loose in Randland today? My guess: at least two. I think the Gholam Sammael sent to Ebou Dar and the one that killed Herid Fel in Cairhien are two separate Gholam. So this Gholam, in Caemlyn, could be the Gholam from Cairhien. That would be a twist. Especially if it is a "female" Gholam... Another thing: Gholam versus Gholam, wouldn't that be a cool fight?

 

c.] What's up with Mat's disguise? He has changed his name and didn't shave. Not much of a disguise, that; one would think Mat could do a better job at it. Lord Crimson, by the way, Mat's alias. A strange name. What's up with that? Another Odin reference maybe? One of Odin's more obscure names was Rauðgrani, a word that means "Red Mustache". So Mat didn't shave and his colour is crimson, too...

 

d.] Why hasn't Elayne responded to Mat's letter? Maybe the letter hasn't reached her, it's still in the mail or someone has stolen or hidden it. Maybe Elayne's busy elsewhere, we don't know if she's in residence.

[Stevros]

Why are people so certain there is a timeline problem. Mat has no news from the tower. All we know is that one of the rumors is that it has been reunified (Plus whilst a siege i going on I'm sure loads of rumors would get started up). To my mind once Elaida had Egwene in custody that would have been enough for her to start saying the rebellion had come to an end etc.. Given that Teslyn has been out of contact for an extended time the fact that she has confirmed news of the siege could be enough to send her and the others back to the tower.

[Slick Mongoose]

Why are people so certain there is a timeline problem. Mat has no news from the tower. All we know is that one of the rumors is that it has been reunified (Plus whilst a siege i going on I'm sure loads of rumors would get started up). To my mind once Elaida had Egwene in custody that would have been enough for her to start saying the rebellion had come to an end etc.. Given that Teslyn has been out of contact for an extended time the fact that she has confirmed news of the siege could be enough to send her and the others back to the tower.

 

I think people are concluding that clear sky = Rand's had his epiphany on Dragonmount. Which seems about right to me.

[Stevros]

Why are people so certain there is a timeline problem. Mat has no news from the tower. All we know is that one of the rumors is that it has been reunified (Plus whilst a siege i going on I'm sure loads of rumors would get started up). To my mind once Elaida had Egwene in custody that would have been enough for her to start saying the rebellion had come to an end etc.. Given that Teslyn has been out of contact for an extended time the fact that she has confirmed news of the siege could be enough to send her and the others back to the tower.

 

I think people are concluding that clear sky = Rand's had his epiphany on Dragonmount. Which seems about right to me.

 

 

Hadn't noticed that, though another explanation is that Elayne has a load of windfinders around, could they be able to keep a small area of clear sky around the city perhaps?

 

Whilst this may seem pointless and insignificant thing for them to do if Elayne (or someone else) noticed how unnatural the clouds were could she have set them to do this (also where is the bowl of winds currently?)

[MikeRiley]

Just a few comments on the last few pages of the discussion:

 

The medallion will not be destroyed or melted down because of the risk. They don't know if it would work and it would ruin Mat's only protection against Aes Sedai which he would not allow. As well, it probably wouldn't work. The fox's eye is the symbol of the Aes Sedai and that seems to be a key thing here, the focus point, you could say. When Rand fought the darkhounds in Rhuidean, they melted into the floor and went back together just the way the gholam did, but in order to do so they first had to slide off the Aes Sedai symbol they were killed on. Balefire did work on them, but we know the gholam can't be channeled at. Mat's medallion is a ter'angreal and Elayne reflects in Lord of Chaos that the shape has as everything to do with the ring ter'angreal's properties, it's a good bet that that holds true for all ter'angreal.

 

Another thing, Mat knows (to his dismay) that the medallion does not stop the power being used to manipulate objects that hit you. Still, I think it more likely that Elayne will find some property of the medallion's that she can mimic and it will be the end of the gholam that way. The gholam was probably harmed by the medallion because the two of them share identical properties.

And a random thought: I wonder if a gholam could be made into cuendillar if it was standing on something that was transformed? After all, it only looks like real flesh.

 

I've been saying all along and I'll say again, I don't believe Mat will actually leave his medallion behind. It is his and Elayne already has her own (better) protection in the form of that dagger ter'angreal Aviendha conveniently showed her not too long ago. But whoever first brought up Elayne's lack of skill level is mistaken. Mat didn't use any skill to beat the gholam the first time. He merely swung the medallion around, something any kid can (and does) do. The gholam only ran because it was shocked that something could hurt it, it was not driven off.

[Random Man]

Couple of things:

 

1. I like the idea of Mat letting Elayne study the medallion to try and copy it, so she can fashion a silver arrow for Birgitte to kill the gholam with. No telling where you'd actually have to shoot it, though -- although it might not really matter. It fits in quite nicely with how you kill a certain monster of our legend -- and the gholam is obviously a construct of several different creatures (golem, vamprire and werewolf). I doubt he's going to be doing much wandering around without it, though. My guess is that once Elayne is contacted he spends the remainder of the 30 days in the palace while she figures out how to duplicate it.

 

2. About the timeline -- it would be quite the coincidence that we'd get two rumors of real events surfacing at the same time if they didn't originate with the actual events themselves (that being, they hadn't happened yet and therefore the rumors were obscured or just plain made up). One I could see, but two? The reunification of the Tower and the attack by the Seanchan happened weeks after Verin sent Mat to Caemlyn. Brandon said 30 days, by other estimates it's 25 days. But then you've got to add time for the rumors to get to Caemlyn, and then you get the sky clearing (tied to Rand's Dragonmount moment), and now we've got Mat who appears to have at least a couple of weeks left to wait when he should already be near, or at the end of, Verin's 30-day requirement.

 

3. Connected to 2: the pattern's so screwed up that time isn't running properly and the story's getting out of whack? That's just downright spooky.

 

4. Teslyn telling Mat that she and the other two owe him a debt can't just be mere fluff. I bet that's going to be VERY significant in the future. Else the whole rescue of them would turn out to be pretty meaningless for the plot. I'm thinking perhaps they don't end up leaving because of whatever (or whoever) Mat finds in his tent.

 

5. The WOTFaq has a post called "Fifty ways to kill a gholam." The medallion's not the only thing that could do it, at least hypothetically.

 

6. I'm starting to think there are two gholams, and not one. Either that or it can move really, really fast. Or the one that killed Fel used the Ways to get down to Ebou Dar.

[FarShainMael]

Would Elayne, or any other Aes Sedai, be able to channel while wearing the medallion?

 

The medallion stops weaves directed at the wearer, is that correct? If so I see no reason why it would stop a person channeling. Does Nyn or Caddy have a terangreal that does summit similar?

 

Similar, yes. Identical; I dunno. Caddy's may be switchable, or tuned to let her channel, but no-one else.

 

I'm by no means certain myself, but it does seem to me that there's a good chance the medallion may disrupt the wearer's own attempts to channel. I see it this way: the person attempts to channel and form flows, but the outgoing flows are disrupted in the same way that incoming ones are.

 

As for Perrin's wolfdream of Mat, I've alluded to this myself elsewhere.* To begin with, the action of Perrin at the TR (TSR27-33) is interleaved with the action of Rand and Mat in Rhuidean/ Chaendar (TSR26,34).

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/tsr/index.html

 

The dream he has of Egwene, Mat, and Rand is much later, in TSR53:

 

• Egwene stood among a crowd of women, fear in her eyes; slowly the women knelt around her. Nynaeve was one of them, and he believed he saw Elayne's red-gold hair.

• Mat stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear with a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind his elbows, and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his chest.

• Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.

The Egwene viewing is clearly about her being raised to Amyrlin; the Rand viewing about his travels to Ebou Dar after nearly balefiring Tam. These are both in the future. It therefore seems likely that the Mat dream is also of a future event.

 

Furthermore, are people seriously expecting Mat - with his TR do-not-harm-women-or allow-women-to-come-to-harm upbringing - to dash off and leave Elayne to the mercies of a gholam?

 

He'll deal with it before he goes. He may then allow her to study and copy the foxhead - I love the idea of making ter'angreal arrows for Birgitte! - and he'll take the medallion with him to ToG.

 

 

*Sorry to repost, but it seems necessary.

[Stevros]

 

3. Connected to 2: the pattern's so screwed up that time isn't running properly and the story's getting out of whack? That's just downright spooky.

 

 

Just had a thought, you know how with the breaking once everything had settled down nobody could agree on what year it was (its not that hard to remember the passing of time) they set up the AB (after breaking) then the trolloc wars left they had FY (free year) then war of hundred years they had NE (new era), could it be that the reason nobody could agree on what year it was was because time flowed differently as the pattern came apart and every person's viewpoint of time was different hence the difference in years?

[Rufae]

I think Teslyn and Co will leave for the Tower and make it. Then when time comes or Mat to need the Horn of Valere, they will willingly retrieve it for him instead of teh normal harassment the Tower would give.

[DottieGirl]

Yeah, that was a taster. Some points:

 

b.] The Gholam. Mat has Travelled to Caemlyn. How did the Gholam get there so fast? In the War of Power, there were six Gholam, all made by Aginor. How many of them are on the loose in Randland today? My guess: at least two. I think the Gholam Sammael sent to Ebou Dar and the one that killed Herid Fel in Cairhien are two separate Gholam. So this Gholam, in Caemlyn, could be the Gholam from Cairhien. That would be a twist. Especially if it is a "female" Gholam... Another thing: Gholam versus Gholam, wouldn't that be a cool fight?

 

I'd prefer to see the male gholam and the female gholam meet, fall in love, and raise lots of little gholams. Or kill each other in a sha'je duel at Qal, either way. Seriously, it would be interesting to see if a second gholam is on the loose (which it very well may be, noting the Herid Fel killing in Cairhien which I'm not sure if Sammael's gholam could have pulled off...not to mention Barthanes who was ripped to shreds, possibly by a gholam, well before Sammael's gholam was active) and even more interesting, who is pulling its strings/giving it orders. My guess would be Moridin, since a hit on Herid Fel would be a bit odd coming from the other FS. Moridin, the philosopher, may have recognized a threat in Fel's writings the other FS would have ignored and sent the hypothetical second gholam to take care of him. If the one in Caemlyn is Sammael's gholam, I doubt it Traveled with help. Any Shadowspawn construct dies after passing through a gateway, I recall, so that should include gholams. Perhaps True Power Traveling is okay? But then only Moridin could have pulled that off...

 

Hmm...interesting thought. Moridin/Ishy had those zomara creatures as early as tGH, serving drinks at the DF social. Perhaps another gholam was stashed in that same stasis box from whence Ishy found the zomara? It was almost certainly at Ishy's instigation that Barthanes was killed.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Elayne won't need the medallion and she most certainly won't mass produce something which might have severe repercussions for her and Aes Sedai in general. Afterall what if those things ever fell into the wrong hands? Those things could end up killing dozens or more Aes Sedai.

Well, the days of Aes Sedai neigh-invincibility against common men are numbered already with the impending advance of firearms technology, but Elayne likely won't realise that before she allows Mat to built his cannons.

 

In my opinion Elayne has enough knowledge to deal with the gholam if she is forewarned. She knows that upon contact with the gholam the flows disappear and she knows that it is impossible to kill with regular weapons. She should already know that like Mat the gholam isn't protected from indirect use of the one power. So the solution to the gholam problem is rather simple. Have a couple of channellers hold a series of wards in and around the palace, they'll notice immediately if the gholam negates the wards and then incase it in solid stone or metal and starve it to death. If that's not decisive enough either throw the gholam together with the block of stone through a gateway or drop it from a bridge in the Ways and let it fall forever. It doesn't take a genius to figure out something like this.

 

Not that I think Elayne will be the one to deal with the gholam in the first place. I think Mat will be the one. And even if not many suspect that Caemlyn will host a meeting of most plotlines in ToM, which would mean that there are plenty of capable people around to deal with a gholam.

As a sidenote I wonder what would happen if the gholam got injured by Fain's dagger. Would it rot away like regular flesh?

[subwoofer]

How can anyone expect Elayne to copy the Medallion when she's pregnant and didn't even copy the sleep weavers exactly right. With the help of Setalle Anan(healed) and demane that make adam, she might be able to figure out what she's doing but not alone. Probably only Mat(Taveren and memories) Rand and the Foresaken(AoL channelers could survive an encounter with the Gholam. I doubt Birgitte could.

Ohhh! I am liking this idea. I am not sure of the logistics involved in getting all of these folks in the same room though. Setalle is with Mat, Elayne won't give him the time of day and where is Flinn exactly? Unless folks start using Traveling like it was meant, this may not come to pass.

 

At the end of the day though, I do feel that Mat is going to take matters into his own hands. Maybe a blunderbuss or knuckle dusters. Matster is still not the kind to trust Aes Sedai, and nothing has happened in recent history to change that so I am thinking that the gholam thing will be solved a little more mundanely.

 

Woof™.

[DPT24]

With the timeline, I really hope they didn't mess it up that badly... I don't remeber it being 30 days between Mat meeting Verin and her dying, because if it was only a few days, that wouldn't be an issue in the timeline. Plus, VoG took place, as Egwenes epilouge shows, a few days after the end of the seige anyways, so probably the timeline is accurate, Mat is just catching up in chapter 8 to TGS

[cloglord]

I can echo the points about the "Mat" voice, but I'll also throw in that I feel that BS is starting to zero in on it a little. The idea that Mat would be calling himself "Lord" anything let alone

Lord Crimson," seemed particularly jarring. however the internal justifications for looking at the ladies seemed textbook Mat even if the amount of oogling seemed like the point was being over emphasized.

 

I am thinking that the apparent time line inconsistencies can be explained in part by a weakness in the pattern, and the inconstant nature of rumors. The rumors about Aes Sedai babies seem like a reference to the Family structure of the new novice families. The rumors of tower reunification seem premature for this point in time, but I wonder if those might not have something to do with the mystery sisters at the silver swan. There is of course Duhara (Sp?) who is in town as well, and as BA she could be spreading any number of false rumors, although I can not fathom what spreading rumors of the towers reunification would do for the DO's cause.

 

As for the break in the clouds, it might be as simple as remembering that no matter how dire Rand's mental plight is, it is not likely to cause exactly the same weather conditions across the entirety of Randland. A permanently cloudy environment is likely to make the Aiel Waste a downright pleasant place comparatively. If you are operating under the same assumption that I am that the weather and the distress to the natural order of things is tied to Rand then it doesn't stand to reason that his distress would make things better in one place (the waste for instance,) and worse everywhere else. Additionally, I am unaware of any indications of just how far this phenomenon extends from Rand.

 

As for the apparent time inconsistencies, in a world where the architecture regularly changes places without warning, I have no problem accepting large shifts in the nature of time flow. As a hypothesis I wonder if the barriers between the "possible" worlds is being blurred. What if in alternate Randland #2 the Brown Ajah quarters were down in the wings of the tower, and the lines between the two worlds just got a little mixed? What if the Daughter heir's rooms were in one spot in Randland #3 and there was a little overlap? I don't have a problem believing this. Now what if Tar Valon got caught up in a little bit of overlap with a world were time flows a little faster? What if one night spent in the vicinity of Hinderstrap is actually 2 weeks? I suspect, as much as it galls me to throw away one of our greatest tools for predicting the next books, that we may have to throw timeline out as an indicator of what's to come. Presumably however malleable time may become, I suspect that it will always flow forward similarly to the way that time rates change between RealWorld and TAR.

 

This might also help explain how the Gholam caught up to Mat so quickly.

 

Now as to Mat and the Gholam. Arguments about how much of a ninja Elayne is or isn't, I don't think that Mat is likely to leave the Gholam issue unresolved and in Elayne's Lap. Simply Mat has a perfect excuse to not open Verin's Letter so long as he feels that he needs to deal with the Gholam situation. The thing that I took from this chapter that I feel is most telling, is that Mat begins to make plans about how to confront the Gholam. In every other instance where Mat stops running from a fight, and decides to make a stand he has been undefeated. Mat has some serious resources at his disposal, and given that he is taking the time to plan a fight between him and the Gholam I have every confidence that he will succeed. He knows what his resources are, and he knows his enemies strengths and weaknesses. I won't go so far as to predict how mat will defeat the Gholam, but I believe that he will make plans to neutralize it.

 

An earlier poster mentioned that the Gholam was after Elayne and Nyn. While this was true in Ebou Dar, it is also true that the Gholam was after Mat. It might be that the reason that the Gholam was after the girls was to prevent them from using the bowl of the winds, and with that event past, it is no longer interested in them. In either case , neither Mat nor Elayne is privy to the reasons why the Gholam arrived in Ebou Dar, and should be making their assumptions from what they have experienced. In this case, Mat has been twice attacked by the Gholam, his lover was slaughtered, by the Gholam, and he was trailed by it all the way across Altara on his travels with Tuon. On the other hand, Elayne had her head knocked in and was left for dead. That's it, and her experience was no different than that of most of the Channelers in that Gholam Battle on the fifth floor. Simply, all evidence tells Mat that the Gholam is after him alone. One easy way, and the way that Mat has dealt with the situation to date, would be to run away to unpopulated areas, where Gholam's don't have any fresh human blood, and where there aren't mobs of people with drawings of him trying to do him in. I can think of one place like that,.....and if the DF's and Gholam can put enough heat on him, he might just decide that waiting for thirty days in Camelyn might be worse than opening a letter and getting the heck out of Dodge,....