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Tarmon Gaidon - The Shadow looks like being annihilated


torrente
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I see no way that the Shadow can win an all-out war against the Light in Tarmon Gaidon . . .

 

The gholam will be a handy creature for the Shadow (assuming he will respond to the Dark One and isn't a free agent).  He's virtually indestructible and cannot be harmed by saidin/saidar.

 

Having seen Rand and Logain virtually singlehandedly despatch an entire legion of Trollocs with slivers of fire and spinning gateways, it looks like an easy victory for the Light.

 

We can also assume the Ever Victorious army will be on the Light side, and even the Children of the Light will probably fight the Shadow.

 

How do you think the battle will play out and which creatures/forces will be handy for either side?

 

Discuss.

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I refer you to Verins coment to Rand: 'this battle isnt being fought how you think it is'. If you think the Last Battle is just going to be a battle on a field with all the forces of the light and all the forces of the dark chopping each other with swords, think again

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I think Lan will lead an army full of all the last remaining Malkier expats to the 7 towers, losing nearly everyone in the process, where he will run into Moridin squatting his parents crib.  Moridin will be high from smoking blight pot, at which point Lan seizes the advantage by removing his pants and proceeds to brutally spank his ass raw on the One Power jumbotron Rand had at Falme.  Everyone in the world sees this and seeks out their own Darkfriend or Forsaken to spank, TG will be won by destroying everyone not in the act of spanking.  Including spankees and those who simply did not want to bother spanking, or quit because their hand couldn't take it anymore.

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I refer you to Verins coment to Rand: 'this battle isnt being fought how you think it is'. If you think the Last Battle is just going to be a battle on a field with all the forces of the light and all the forces of the dark chopping each other with swords, think again

 

True, but I still think there will be plenty of conventional battles. 

 

 

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True, but I still think there will be plenty of conventional battles.

 

Which should serve, more or less, as a distraction.  The Dark One would happily see every one of his followers ground into dog meat, so long as he wins the battle that Rand doesn't know he's fighting yet.  What specific form that battle will take is not entirely clear, but if the Dark One wins it, reality unravels.  So, why should we think that the Dark One cares if the hordes of Trollocs get their arses handed to them?

 

Yes, if we have seen all the conventional forces that the Shadow has, then the good guys are in for a tough but winnable fight.  But not only have we not seen all the conventional forces the Shadow has, the most important battle won't be conventional at all.

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I see no way that the Shadow can win an all-out war against the Light in Tarmon Gaidon . . .

 

The gholam will be a handy creature for the Shadow (assuming he will respond to the Dark One and isn't a free agent).  He's virtually indestructible and cannot be harmed by saidin/saidar.

 

Having seen Rand and Logain virtually singlehandedly despatch an entire legion of Trollocs with slivers of fire and spinning gateways, it looks like an easy victory for the Light.

 

We can also assume the Ever Victorious army will be on the Light side, and even the Children of the Light will probably fight the Shadow.

 

How do you think the battle will play out and which creatures/forces will be handy for either side?

 

Discuss.

 

RJ had this to say about it:

 

"But look at the situation in the world as it actually stands, from the White Tower divided to crop failures caused by a too-long winter and a too-long summer and people fleeing their farms because the Dragon Reborn has broken all bonds, meaning still less food, and that spoiling at a fearsome rate, from chaos in Arad Doman to a large part of the Borderland armies out of position, from the arrival of the Seanchan focusing too many eyes on them instead of the Shadow to the strongest single nation, Andor, riven by civil war in all but name and Tear split by open warfare, from….  Well, take your pick.  There are lots more to chose from.  Take a step back and look at what the forces of the Shadow have wrought.  The world and the forces of the Light are in bad shape.  At this point, boys and girls, the Shadow is winning.  There are glimmers of hope, but only glimmers, and they MUST pay off for the Light to win.  All the Shadow needs for victory is for matters to keep on as they have been going thus far and one or two of those glimmers to fade or be extinguished.  The forces of the Light are on the ropes, and they don’t even know everything the Dark One has up his sleeve.

 

Think of it this way.  The bell is about to ring for the fifteenth round, and the Light is so far behind on points the only way to win is a knockout.  Our boy is game, but he’s wobbly on his legs and bleeding from cuts over his eyes.  Now he has three minutes to pull out his best stuff and deliver the punch of his life.  The Dark One has taken a few shots, but nothing that has really damaged him.  He’s still dancing on his toes and talking trash.  His head shots can fracture a skull, and his body punches can break ribs.  And now he’s ready to unveil his surprises.  You didn’t think all it would take is for Rand to show up at the Last Battle, did you?  According to the Prophecies, the Light has no chance without him, but his presence doesn’t ensure victory, just that the Light has a chance.  Gotta stiffen your legs and blink the blood out of your eyes.  Gotta suck it up and find that punch.  Three minutes to go, and you gotta find that knockout.  That’s your only chance."

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Yup.. The Light side's a mess. They're in chaos. Sure they may have the numbers of conventional and unconventional forces, in paper, but in reality everyone's got full dishes already and the Dark One hasn't unleashed the Blight yet. So yeah, the Light's in/on the ropes.

 

Really waiting what Demandred, Moridin or the Dark One will pull out in the last 2 books....

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I wrote a thread out once about the various things the Dark One might have up his sleeve. Verin's comment suggests that this strength will not be military--so yes. But still here are some thoughts on areas he might have unforeseen strength.

 

The two big ones that I can think of is that the gathering and training of Dreadlords off screen has been dramatic--this isn't unlikely, the Shadow managed to equal the Tower at its height with no Black Ajah during the Trolloc Wars, so thats a few thousand. Taim stands as potential evidence of this--he claims he only trained one, and that that man went mad, bu as a darkfriend he has the means to offer protection from the taint and to lie about how many he trained. There was also his slip about using too much power in testing men 'may burn them out'. If he learnt that casually through experience then it would not be 'may burn them out'. The 'may' indicates he was trained to train men who can channel by someone in the know--forsaken.

 

Liandrin also may be evidence for this. She states that she could channel for a year before going to the Tower, yet doesn't think of herself as a wilder. She also says she was a darkfriend before going to the Tower--this may be just hypocritical self-delusion on her part, or it may indicate she was trained by the Shadow before going to the Tower.

 

The second one that occurs to me is that there may be drastically more darkfriends than we realise. During the Trolloc Wars there were tens of thousands, but despite population decline its entirely possible for there to be more now--for two reasons. One with the Day of Return so close, the gains of being a darkfriend are in hand. Two with the seals weakening the Dark One's influence is increased, which according to the BWB brings out the darker side in peoples natures.

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My guess is that Demandred will be (at least one, but the biggest) things the DO has up his sleeve (Not jsut because I like him.)

 

WE have Brandon's quotes.

 

The Gathering Storm Book tour, Idaho Falls 19 December 2009 - wolfbro22 reporting

 

 

Went to the signing in Idaho Falls today and asked Brandon if we had seen Demandred's alter ego on screen, and he gave me a RAFO card and said that Demandred's identity is the biggest secret in the series and will pay off in the end.

 

And.

 

A quote taken from The Wheel of Time - The Forsaken Facebook Group Discussions posted by Kristi Deming.

 

When I met Brandon on the book signing tour, they gave us a sticky to write what we wanted him to write what we wanted. I am the proud owner of the only copy that says:

 

"To Kristi, I promise Demandred will be in AMoL!"

 

I asked if I was right in thinking that RJ had saved the best for last, and Brandon simply said as far as the Shadow is concerned, the main player will be Demandred.

 

So i think there will  be a Demandred Blitz, ploughing into the Forces of Light, creating CHAOS like the world has not seen. It would be stratigically excellent, to hold back on a potentially killer blow just before, or right on TG, if Demandred had unleashed this, say, around PoD, Rand and co would have time to recover, if they defeated whatever was comming.

 

But unleashing it so close to TG, the Forces of Light wont have much time to recover their strength, making it easier for the DO

 

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If Demandred can really whip up a great storm in ToM or AMoL that can leave the forces of Light in sheer chaos, would that mean that Demandred alone is more of a match to the Great Generals in Randland? (I'll probably exclude Mat on this one.)

 

just because your a great general doesnt mean you can stop chaos from reigning. Itld. Bashere Gareth and Algemar havent managed to stop the chaos thats spread so far, so why should they be able to stop demandred,

 

IF he blitzes teh forces of light, striking with one swift, hard stroke, the Great Generals wont have enough time to react fully.

 

I really think the combined genius of the Great Generals is irrelevant to this.

 

but, if you wish to persue this, then I say that Demandred would be more skilled than each of them, including Mat, individually (remember while mat is exteremly good, perhaps the best of the Age, he only has memories from Trolloc Wars to Hawkwing, the battles in the War of Power would be on a whole new level)

 

In any case, as for the Great Generals even being able to combine.

 

Bashere is with Rand, in Arad Doman/Marching to TG

Itld. is in Saldaea protecting the Blight

Algemar is basically useless at the moment, something fishy is going on with the borderland armies (I suspect Demandred's involvement) even so, he is stuck in far madding.

Gareth is stuck with Egwene in the Tower

and, Ill add Mat, he is on his way to the ToG, so he wont be doing much in the outside world.

 

SO all of the Generals are split up, among different armies, each isolated.

Demandred can strike out, isolating each one, devistating them with suprise.

 

Remember, creating Chaos doesnt mean defeating the  armies of light, just catching them by suprise and ripping holes through them

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Mat may only have memories from the trollocs wars on fighting but war was around a lot longer at that stage than it was when Demandred was alive. So the generals nowadays would have as much knowledge and experiance to call on as Demandred if not more.

Demandred might of been a great general in his time but war was only newly rediscovered. I reckon it should be an even match between any two. All depends on numbers and the advantage of suprise.

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I just had a thought. If Damendred's identity was a big surprise, what happens if he turns out to be king Darlin :o? That would throw a spanner in the works.

 

Or even Weiramon :o ??? (If he is, I for one will first fall off my chair/reading place and then laugh that I geussed it, even in jest)

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Yeh Mat has a lot more war experiance than Demandred, through his memories; also Demandreds experiance was with completely different technology/weapons and scenarios, putting him at a disadvantage. The skills he would of picked up in organisation and coordination would be transferable to the current age though. My moneys on Mat being the  better battlefield General.

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The Great Captains and Mat may have more battle experience but we have no idea what was lost between the AOL and now.  There could've been journals and books and stuff; too Demandred has experience commanding channelers in battle.  No one but the Seanchan and now Rand has experience commanding channelers.  To a certain extent I guess some Asha'Man do but those were small conflicts.

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Since Rand havent realized yet that his dark side is affecting the land and the DO seem to have worked very hard to create this dark side Id say its fair to credit the DO with the spoilage.

 

The chance is slim to none that the AoL folks spent time writing books about war during the war of power. Like someone mentioned, Mat > * as far as generals go.

 

Of course the LB wont be decided in a fight between andorans and trollocs, but I still think there will be plenty of regular warfare going on, and I dont think the dark side will be as small as many here have anticipated.

 

I dont think the Rand & co vs 100k trolloccs is a good example of the chaneller/trolloc ratio either since those trollocs were running straight into everything that was thrown against them on an open field, I doubt many of the real battles will look like that.

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I have the feeling a number of great generals are goign to be assassinated and the only thing that will save mat is the tower of ganja. That would be a very good way to demoralize and create chaos. (remember the great generals names brings in as many troops as the pay)

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I have the feeling a number of great generals are goign to be assassinated and the only thing that will save mat is the tower of ganja. That would be a very good way to demoralize and create chaos. (remember the great generals names brings in as many troops as the pay)

 

yes, i think that is likely.

 

Although i think Gareth will survive at least, he is with the AS and such, and hes just become a warder, it doesnt sound like he will die (its not GRRM, its RJ)

 

Bashere, Alegemar and Itld. will probably be killed, or turned to the Shadow, whichever fits in.

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The fact that Rand is creating an alliance between a whole bunch of different societies suggests to me that the battle is going to be fought on many different fronts. The DO may have a few tricks up his sleeve and Rand himself may not be dealing with the warfare, but there is a reason that he had to collect the aiel and the Seanchan and whatnot. Theres also a reason why Mat gained the memories. Its not going to be a little skirmish. Its going to be a full on war, but a war that will be fought over a period of a couple of weeks and will be extremely bloody and gruesome. think Dumai Wells, but large scale. Especially if Mat gets his cannons done in time.

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