Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[yoniy0]

Oh, yeah. Sorry, but you were wrong. There are quotes from RJ himself supporting that BFed souls do get reborn.

 

can someone please explain Mat's power with luck?  I've only read the first two books but am very curious to know how this works and plays out through the series.  thanks!

No, there's really no explanation for it. We know from interviews with RJ that the dice ter'angreal stolen from the Tower has nothing to do with it, and he also once said "when people say Mat has the DO's own luck, he might get angry, but in a way that's true" (I'm paraphrasing).

 

Just after he got his memories back he asked someone, i think Lan about people he had been in the past, and i think it was mat who said he had been known as the gambler, not 100% sure tho.

I would really like to know what you're referring to. I have no recollection of us ever learning who Mat was in past lives. We do know that he's currently known for being somewhat of a gambler (and I don't mean by his friends. That's a given). We have an example of that when the Aelfinn call him Gambler.

[Arkane101]

 

Just after he got his memories back he asked someone, i think Lan about people he had been in the past, and i think it was mat who said he had been known as the gambler, not 100% sure tho.

I would really like to know what you're referring to. I have no recollection of us ever learning who Mat was in past lives. We do know that he's currently known for being somewhat of a gambler (and I don't mean by his friends. That's a given). We have an example of that when the Aelfinn call him Gambler.

 

Check through The Shadow Rising after Mat and Rand get back from Rhuidian, altho the gambler part might have just been i myself affixed to him however, last time i read it was too far ago, it's all a bit hazy but i definately remember mention of past lives.

[A Trite Pun]

Another quick question  ;D

 

What the hell happened to all of those ter'angreal, sa'angreal, and angreal that Moiraine loaded up in rhuidean?  I've completely forgotten, and dont feel like going back and reading TFoH

[Sharaman]

 

Just after he got his memories back he asked someone, i think Lan about people he had been in the past, and i think it was mat who said he had been known as the gambler, not 100% sure tho.

I would really like to know what you're referring to. I have no recollection of us ever learning who Mat was in past lives. We do know that he's currently known for being somewhat of a gambler (and I don't mean by his friends. That's a given). We have an example of that when the Aelfinn call him Gambler.

 

Check through The Shadow Rising after Mat and Rand get back from Rhuidian, altho the gambler part might have just been i myself affixed to him however, last time i read it was too far ago, it's all a bit hazy but i definately remember mention of past lives.

 

I don't think we have any clear reference to who/ what Mat was in previous lives, though the Finns called him Gambler, Trickster and Son of Battle. We know he had a Manetheren connection due to his habit of spouting Old Tongue under stress. We also know that the implanted memories were of other people.

 

Another quick question  ;D

 

What the hell happened to all of those ter'angreal, sa'angreal, and angreal that Moiraine loaded up in rhuidean?  I've completely forgotten, and dont feel like going back and reading TFoH

 

Rand left them in a warded warehouse in Carhein. They're probably still there.

 

[Arkane101]

nah i totally swear he mentioned a name to Lan and Lan said it was some king from during the Trolloc wars or something

[DocBean]

nah i totally swear he mentioned a name to Lan and Lan said it was some king from during the Trolloc wars or something

 

Mat's memories are not from his past lives.

I hope I'm not spoiling anything here, but it's clearly explained in later books.

 

So if he ever mentioned a name from one of his memories, he wasn't asking about his soul.

I don't remember the scene you're talking about though.

 

 

[gambril]

It's just a scene where Mat is asking Lan questions about the memories he has to determine what time they're from.

[Majsju]

Another quick question  ;D

 

What the hell happened to all of those ter'angreal, sa'angreal, and angreal that Moiraine loaded up in rhuidean?  I've completely forgotten, and dont feel like going back and reading TFoH

 

Stashed away in Cairhien.

[bobothebarbarian]

 

Just after he got his memories back he asked someone, i think Lan about people he had been in the past, and i think it was mat who said he had been known as the gambler, not 100% sure tho.

I would really like to know what you're referring to. I have no recollection of us ever learning who Mat was in past lives. We do know that he's currently known for being somewhat of a gambler (and I don't mean by his friends. That's a given). We have an example of that when the Aelfinn call him Gambler.

 

Check through The Shadow Rising after Mat and Rand get back from Rhuidian, altho the gambler part might have just been i myself affixed to him however, last time i read it was too far ago, it's all a bit hazy but i definately remember mention of past lives.

its book 5 Fires of Heaven Chapter 42 Before the Arrow that i think your talking about they just talk about the battle plans against the shadio. the last morning mat was a free man and not a General. a few things in this chapter say a lot about Mat the best parts are

He himself had never noticed anything twisting around him except the fall of dice. He would not turn away from some of the things that happened to ta’veren in stories. Wealth and fame dropped into their pockets as if from the sky; men who wanted to kill them decided to follow instead, and women with ice in their eyes decided to melt.

and i think this 1 answers your question

Know the terrain. That was the second rule, close behind “Know your enemy,” and not much to choose between them.

The thought put a sour twist to his mouth. Those rules came from other men’s memories; the only rules remember were “Never kiss a girl whose brothers have knife scars” and “Never gamble without knowing a back way out.” He almost wished those memories of other men were still separate lumps in his brain instead of oozing into his thoughts when he least expected.

he thinks this but dose not say it to Lan

It was like Cuaindaigh Fords, too, late in the Trolloc Wars, and on much the same scale. Not much different from the Tora Shan, either. Or Sulmein Gap, before Hawkwing found his stride. The names flickered through his head, the images of bloody fields forgotten even by historians. Absorbed in the map as he was, they did not register as anything but his own remembrances

and that gives us a time line and 

He more than merely liked gambling, and battle was a gamble to make dicing in taverns a thing for children and toothless invalids. Lives were the stake here

is the reason  I think of him as a real gambler.

With that it all crashed home, what he had been saying, the memories he had been embracing. Burn you for a fool, for not guarding your tongue! Why had Lan had to take the conversation that way? Why could he not have talked about horses, or the weather, or just kept his mouth shut? The Warder had never seemed all that eager to talk before. Usually the man made a tree seem talkative

and finely that's why i am pretty sure it was this chapter you were talking about. It is one of my favorite chapters of all the book, but then again almost all the mat chapters are.

[bobothebarbarian]

ter'angreal, sa'angreal, and angreal

 

Stashed away in Cairhien.

It Will probably take a day or so before some one else asks that question again  ;D

[bobothebarbarian]

nah i totally swear he mentioned a name to Lan and Lan said it was some king from during the Trolloc wars or something

I am almost sure in all off mat memories he was never a king but there is one where he sees a enemy king on the field and thinks to him self that he had a memory of serving that king also as the memory person he was was shot with arrows. and that memory person was from the band of the red hand something about holding them off for days then they left and mat thinks i wouldn't count on the mercy of your enemy

[Fains nose]

When mat gets healed from the dagger he has a flashback to Manetheren and he is commanding everyone. In this memory he is Aemon, a king, the king of Manetheren, i hope to see mat leading the two rivers boys instead of Perin, and they all do the Carai an Caldazar chant

[Majsju]

When mat gets healed from the dagger he has a flashback to Manetheren and he is commanding everyone. In this memory he is Aemon, a king, the king of Manetheren, i hope to see mat leading the two rivers boys instead of Perin, and they all do the Carai an Caldazar chant

 

It has never been confirmed that this memory comes from Aemon. Siuan says that the things he blurts out is about ordering soldiers, but that does in no way mean it is Aemon. For example, of Randlands five great generals (ok, four now that Niall is dead), not a single one is king.

[Fains nose]

@Majsju who else would be in command of Manetherens troops at Manetherens last stand besides the king of Manetheren. Of course it was Aemon

[Majsju]

@Majsju who else would be in command of Manetherens troops at Manetherens last stand besides the king of Manetheren. Of course it was Aemon

 

Chain of command. The king orders a number of high ranking officers, who then returns to their troops and orders them.

Comparing with our world, most nations (in Europe) stopped having their kings going into battle in the 17th century.

 

Granted, it is possible that Aemon was stupid enough to forget such a basic thing as The king leads from the rear, but it is in no way confirmed. Of course, given Mats attitude towards nobility, it would be quite hilarious.

[Dreamwalker]

@Majsju who else would be in command of Manetherens troops at Manetherens last stand besides the king of Manetheren. Of course it was Aemon

 

Chain of command. The king orders a number of high ranking officers, who then returns to their troops and orders them.

Comparing with our world, most nations (in Europe) stopped having their kings going into battle in the 17th century.

 

Granted, it is possible that Aemon was stupid enough to forget such a basic thing as The king leads from the rear, but it is in no way confirmed. Of course, given Mats attitude towards nobility, it would be quite hilarious.

 

I agree with you Majsju - I've always thought that rather than Aemon, Mat's previous life was probably the top General in charge of all of Manetheren's forces, and would have been Aemon's military advisor (just as Davram Bashere was for Tenobia or Gareth Bryne was for Morgase)

[bobothebarbarian]

When mat gets healed from the dagger he has a flashback to Manetheren and he is commanding everyone. In this memory he is Aemon, a king, the king of Manetheren, i hope to see mat leading the two rivers boys instead of Perin, and they all do the Carai an Caldazar chant

Aemon was king and his queen was Aes Sedai and they were very much in love so I dont think he would say this

Mia ayende, Aes Sedai! Caballein mirain ye! Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye! Mia ayende!

and that means

For a time,” she said finally, “I believe the past and the present were one. He was there, and he was here, and he knew who we were. He commanded us to release him.” She paused again.“ ’I am a free man, Aes Sedai. I am no Aes Sedai meat.’ That is what he said.”

in a the armies of Manetheren there was a commander for about every 80 to 100 solders just like in roman times I think that because when he first joins the armies he says

“What the Lord Dragon wants you to do,” he told them, “is to ride ahead slowly, just as if there wasn’t an Aiel inside a hundred miles. As soon as the pikes are through the gap, they’ll form a hollow square, and you get yourselves inside it double quick.”

The commander of the pikemen proved to be a pale, slender Cairhienin, half a head shorter than Mat and mounted on a gray gelding that looked past ready for the pasture. Daerid had hard eyes, though, an oft-broken nose, and three white scars crisscrossing his face, one of them not very old. He took off his bell-shaped helmet while he talked with Mat; the front of his head was shaved. No lord, he.

The Tairens are no friends of mine. And Daerid is . . . useful. Certainly not a friend.” Dry chuckles ran through the onlooking lords at the suggestion. “But I will lead one half, if you lead the other.”

Talmanes pulled off one steel-backed gauntlet and put out his hand, but for a moment Mat only stared at it. Lead? Him? I’m a gambler, not a soldier. A lover. Memories of battles long gone spun through his head, but he forced them down.

 

At the command orbem formate, the legionaries assumed a circle-like formation with the archers placed in the midst of and behind the legionaries providing missile fire support. This tactic was used mainly when a small number of legionaries had to hold a position and were surrounded by enemies.

At the command ciringite frontem, the legionaries held their position.

At the command frontem allargate, a scattered formation was adopted.

At the command testudinem formate, the legionaries assumed the testudo (tortoise) formation. This was slow moving but almost impenetrable to enemy fire, and thus very effective during sieges and/or when facing off against enemy archers. However in hand to hand fighting then the testudo was a weak formation and therefore it was only adopted when the enemy were far enough away so as the legionaries could get into another formation before being attacked.

 

how they organized the Roman army was Once the soldier had finished his training he was typically assigned to a legion, the basic mass fighting force. The legion was split into ten sub-units called cohorts, roughly comparable to a modern infantry battalion. The cohorts were further sub-divided into three maniples, which in turn were split into two centuries of about 60-100 men each. Total strength of a legion when fully staffed stood at around 60 centuries or 6,000 men. The first cohort in a legion was usually the strongest, with the fullest personnel complement and with the most skilled, experienced men. Several legions grouped together made up a distinctive field force or army

[Duskfire]

Ive made this argument before but I really doubt that Mat is Aemon reborn, or anyone like that for that matter. No one else remembers their memories except for Rand. Everyone is reborn, or close enough anyhow, and yet memories are not remembered. Rand is the exception, and he is the exception because it actually makes sense for him to remember. Mat on the other hand it doens't. Same goes with any other character. More likely Moiraine was simply correct (for a change): the Old Blood is strong in him. Egwene almost recognised what Mat said too.

 

 

[bobothebarbarian]

Ive made this argument before but I really doubt that Mat is Aemon reborn, or anyone like that for that matter. No one else remembers their memories except for Rand. Everyone is reborn, or close enough anyhow, and yet memories are not remembered. Rand is the exception, and he is the exception because it actually makes sense for him to remember. Mat on the other hand it doens't. Same goes with any other character. More likely Moiraine was simply correct (for a change): the Old Blood is strong in him. Egwene almost recognised what Mat said too.

 

 

I agree completely!!!  ;D

;) accept about .. I do think he is the reborn version of some one that Thom has told stories about. Does that make sense? I don't have any Idea who And I am sure its not any king. but some one like Birgitte born humble and becomes a hero. and no I am not saying he is one of the heroes of the horn but he could be

[Auld Manriva]

I can't recall the timing of this "recollection" of Mat's. Was it after his memories implant?

 

* Do the finn's collect by only bargaining? Or is there some more sinister method?

*If this is the case; why would Aemon strike a bargain with the finns? He's married to an AS who would surely have steered him away from a vacation to Finn Land.

 

This raised another thought as I've been pondering. How.. if the doorway was held in The Stone of Tear all this time, did all these military types from ALL over "pre"-Randland, arrange to take a trip to Finn-landia? Was this not a supposedly closely held bit of secrecy?

 

I recall it being in Mayenne for some time, now that my brain is warming up a bit. Maybe for some millennia it had been kind of a traveling museum exposition. Like the ones who come to the hinterlands where I reside. From time to time we get injections of culture so that our backwardness can be ameliorated to some small degree. Maybe the Finn-door was displayed in a similar manner  ;D

[Majsju]

I can't recall the timing of this "recollection" of Mat's. Was it after his memories implant?

 

* Do the finn's collect by only bargaining? Or is there some more sinister method?

*If this is the case; why would Aemon strike a bargain with the finns? He's married to an AS who would surely have steered him away from a vacation to Finn Land.

 

This raised another thought as I've been pondering. How.. if the doorway was held in The Stone of Tear all this time, did all these military types from ALL over "pre"-Randland, arrange to take a trip to Finn-landia? Was this not a supposedly closely held bit of secrecy?

 

I recall it being in Mayenne for some time, now that my brain is warming up a bit. Maybe for some millennia it had been kind of a traveling museum exposition. Like the ones who come to the hinterlands where I reside. From time to time we get injections of culture so that our backwardness can be ameliorated to some small degree. Maybe the Finn-door was displayed in a similar manner  ;D

 

The memory discussed here is from TDR, quite some time before Mat entered the doorway in Rhuidean, so it is his own memory.

 

Of the memories Mat got from the finns, most of those people entered through the Tower of Ghenjei, which was more well known back in the days.

[bobothebarbarian]

from TSR Chapter 6 Doorways

“They ceased their collecting nearly three hundred years gone. It was just before they stopped completely that they acquired this ter’angreal. Up until then it was the possession of the Firsts of Mayene, who used its answers to help keep Mayene out of Tear’s grasp. And they allowed Aes Sedai to study it. In secret, of course; Mayene has never dared anger Tear too openly.”

“If it was so important to Mayene,” Nynaeve said suspiciously, “why is it here, in the Stone?”

“Because Firsts have made bad decisions as well as good in trying to keep Mayene free of Tear. Three hundred years ago the High Lords were planning to.....

so it was used up until 300 years ago but the part "And they allowed Aes Sedai to study it. In secret, of course; Mayene has never dared anger Tear too openly". Makes me think that the doorway was not a secret, just that they allowed Aes Sedai to study it was the secret.

---

So you never know maybe the Firsts would sell round trip tickets to Finn-landia ;D and who would want to buy a Ticket?

People that have to make life and death decisions, like solders. But I wonder why Mat doesn't have any memories of being a Aes Sedai researcher? I guess the male/female rules apply to the fins as well as the One power.

---

Additionally the Firsts of Mayene are descended from Hawkwing so we can assume that he had it when he was alive. If he did I am sure he would have let his generals and such use it.

[bobothebarbarian]

I can't recall the timing of this "recollection" of Mat's. Was it after his memories implant?

 

* Do the finn's collect by only bargaining? Or is there some more sinister method?

the quotes

---

You were both in there. That is why . . . !” She made a vexed hiss. “One of you would have been bad enough, but two ta’veren at once — you might have torn the connection entirely and been trapped there. What do they get out of it? The snakes with legs. “Sensations,” Moiraine replied with a grimace. “Sensations, emotions, experiences. They rummage through them; you can feel them doing it, making your skin crawl. Perhaps they feed on them in some manner. always made me think that once you left the doorway it was like you then became a TV set to the fins for the rest of your life. but while you are actually there they actually get to feed of your thread like a moth eating your part in the fabric  ;D

As a side note do you think this part — you might have torn the connection entirely and been trapped there. Wretched boys playing with things you do not know the danger of.

is Ironic or just sad for Moiraine?

[yoniy0]

Firstly, Mat's seepage of memories and OT phrases from before TSR is explained by Moiraine as 'the old blood singing', i.e. it comes from his ancestors, not past lives.

Secondly, if we keep debating this, we should probably start a new thread. This one is for simple questions and answers.

And lastly, it doesn't really matter, but bobothebarbarian - why do you post several posts in a row, rather than using 'edit', or else preparing your posts in advance?

[bobothebarbarian]

Firstly, Mat's seepage of memories and OT phrases from before TSR is explained by Moiraine as 'the old blood singing', i.e. it comes from his ancestors, not past lives.

Secondly, if we keep debating this, we should probably start a new thread. This one is for simple questions and answers.

And lastly, it doesn't really matter, but bobothebarbarian - why do you post several posts in a row, rather than using 'edit', or else preparing your posts in advance?

well yoniy0 there are a couple of reasons why the main one is Because the posts are about 2 different things.

One was about the Doorway, if it was a secret, and when it was used and who might of used it.

The other one was about how the Fins feed on emotions and experiences.

nether one had any thing to do with Mat's seepage of memories and OT phrases from before TSR. and I was not debating at all I was answering questions with direct quotes from the books and saying how I felt that quote explained the answer. The other reason I used the Quotes a lot in this thread and why I post several posts in a row is to keep it as simple as it could possibly be. with no way to confuse any one. But i guess it still did I am sorry