Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[jedman67]

I wonder if the Andoran royalty lines keep the woman's name in all marriages, or if they only keep them if they are currently royalty.

The High Seat usually takes the surname of the house (unless thats their surname already) and children who are heir to the house are given the house surname (i.e. Elayne and Gawyn Trakand, even tho their father was Taringail Damodred).

[Whizbang]

She might take it if only to distance herself from her past life.  Especially for Elayne's sake. If Morgase Trakand, the failed queen, is always hanging around, people will wonder about Elayne being a puppet. If Morgase Tallanvor is hanging around... Wait. Who is Morgase Tallanvor?

[Rhienne]

Why do none of the Maidens of the Spear wear the the red bandana with the ancient AS symbol that some of the other Aiel wear?

[Whizbang]

They already carry Rand's honor. Grasping for more would shame themselves. Plus I think they are already headstrong and independent women. The idea of being owned by a man (as is strongly implied by the word Siswai'aman), would be apalling.

[EmperorAllspice]

Why do people like Faile?

 

in the books I mean. Abusive, abrasive, patronizing, manipulative. Yet everyone seems to like her who aren't rivals or villains. and Perrin for some reason loves her. To the point of not ever shutting up about it.

Edited April 21, 2013 by EmperorAllspice

[Suttree]

Why do people like Faile?

One of the more confounding mysteries in the WoT.

[Whizbang]

Moiraine and Lan seemed to find her irritating.  The Two Rivers folk fawn over her because she is a lady, and then because she is Perrin's wife and she brought an army to save them. Morgase doesn't seem to like her, but respects her a little (in a condescending sort of way).  The fools from Cairhein are fools, so it only makes sense they would like Faile.  Loial likes her, but he likes everyone.

 

Everyone else, I think, only tolerates her because she is married to a power of the realm.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Whizbang

[aranyaka]

Not everyone liked her. Rand and his women didn't trust her. Mat had never thought her beautiful. Most of her fans were people who thought they needed a lord or a lady to obey or admire.

[EmperorAllspice]

I'm just on the part where The Two Rivers men are cold and hateful towards Perrin because he's lost her. They know Perrin. Why on earth would they believe rumors that he's unfaithful?

[Whizbang]

Yeah, that always bugged me. They were practically worshiping Perrin, then one little rumor from some gossipy maids and they treat him like scum. Though somehow they still respect him as a leader? That seems a bit odd to me that they can give him the cold shoulder one moment then follow him into battle the next.

[Rhienne]

I found that to be a major problem with that plot for me too.  It just doesn't make sense.  We know the Two Rivers folk for their loyalty and steadfastness, and they doubt Perrin all of a sudden without any evidence?  I think this was supposed to demonstrate that Faile meant as much to them as Perrin (whether you like her or hate her, she acted, and made Perrin act, the way that the Two Rivers folk wanted them both to act, and they do admire her.  Aside from her severe jealousy issues with Perrin, I think she has generally done quite a good job in looking after the Two Rivers?), however, it just made the Two Rivers folk look fickle and like they would value a pretty face more than one of their own.

[EmperorAllspice]

she acted, and made Perrin act, the way that the Two Rivers folk wanted them both to act,

random note

 

 

This here is a real personal issue of mine. This whole concept in Perrin's arc that Perrin NEEDS to act the way the Two Rivers people want him to act is, in my opinion, utterly monstrous and unforgivable on the part of the Two Rivers folk. It almost makes me wish Perrin had left them to die. Some might say they deserve a good stew in a trolloc cookpot If they're going to be so obnoxiously unwilling to notice that he doesn't WANT to be a lord and clearly doesn't like the whole lord lifestyle. (speaking this especially to the people who he grew up with) It also clashes rather roughly with the concept permeating the rest of the series that farmers and smaller townsfolk don't care one iota about who rules over them as long as it doesn't effect their own lives.

 

It keeps trying so hard to shove it down our throuts that Faile's viewpoint is right. and if it is, it makes all the people of Two Rivers completely unsympathetic if they're willing to ignore how uncomfortable and awful and distancing the whole thing is for Perrin.

 

Yes, I know Ta'veren-ness is contriving to make Perrin great in some way., but with Mat and Rand this process actually makes sense. It's throwing these characters into situations where they're gaining control over people who have these intricate systems of intrigue and political maneuvering. Or who have long standing customs built to allow them to move into (like Rand and the Aiel). Or they have armies that he earned in battle (like Mat and the Band)

 

Perrin is... among friends. He's among people he's known all his life. Who should know him. And expansion or no, the Two Rivers acting in such a callous way to one of it's own feels contrived beyond even what the pattern can do. If the Two Rivers folk acted more like, say, the maidens or the clan chiefs act towards Rand, where the fact that he's their leader means barely anything to them outside of an immediate danger situation would've made INFINITELY more sense to me

 

Wow, that was a tangent

Edited April 22, 2013 by EmperorAllspice

[Rhienne]

 

 

And expansion or no, the Two Rivers acting in such a callous way to one of it's own feels contrived beyond even what the pattern can do. If the Two Rivers folk acted more like, say, the maidens or the clan chiefs act towards Rand, where the fact that he's their leader means barely anything to them outside of an immediate danger situation would've made INFINITELY more sense to me.

 

Very good point.  It also somewhat goes against the theme in the books of 'peasant's being equal to nobles, and having equal rights.  But I bet we wouldn't see the whole Two Rivers army haring off for months on end if Daise Congar had been kidnapped rather than Faile.

 

I think there is a speech by Bashere at some point in LoC which provides a pretty good argument for having Lords, but I agree that Perrin could have led them without being a Lord.  Part of what the Two Rivers was about was their pride in not being beholden to anyone, and then they seem to leap on the idea of having a Lord (not just following Perrin) quicker than anyone else.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Rhienne

[Rhienne]

Random question about Min and the Wise Ones in LoC and ACoS:

 

In LoC, Min reveals her ability to see visions around people to Melaine.  She does this at Rand's prompting and assurance that Melaine will honour her promise not to tell anyone else.  The next time this comes up is in ACoS, and all of the Wise Ones and Maidens know about Min.  Granted, Min is quite happy at the outcome as no one seems to make a fuss about it, but wouldn't that give Melaine massive toh to Min for breaking her promise?  I can kind of see Melaine using the Wise Ones version of truth and honour to think that telling all the Wise Ones about Min still counts as keeping her secret, but all the Maidens too?

 

Secondly, Min is treated as an honourary Wise One purely because of her ability.  This doesn't seem quite right to me, as Wise Ones don't give status just for being a Dreamwalker, Dreamer, or channeler.  Their whole system is based on strength of character and earning respect (as we very much saw with Egwene - yes she was a pupil, but she would have had to earn their respect even if she wasn't), and Min just seems to be elevated to their level without them even knowing her. 

[EmperorAllspice]

Isn't it kind of a runnng theme that even when the female heirarchy is specifically mentioned NOT to be based on power levels or abilities they still kind of are anyway?

[Whizbang]

 

Random question about Min and the Wise Ones in LoC and ACoS:

 

In LoC, Min reveals her ability to see visions around people to Melaine.  She does this at Rand's prompting and assurance that Melaine will honour her promise not to tell anyone else.  The next time this comes up is in ACoS, and all of the Wise Ones and Maidens know about Min.  Granted, Min is quite happy at the outcome as no one seems to make a fuss about it, but wouldn't that give Melaine massive toh to Min for breaking her promise?  I can kind of see Melaine using the Wise Ones version of truth and honour to think that telling all the Wise Ones about Min still counts as keeping her secret, but all the Maidens too?

I don't remember the promise not to tell anyone. I'll have to read it again. I only vaguely remember the scene, but I half-remember that she glowered at Rand as if it was hif fault she let slip about the twins, and then he reassured her that he can trust the Aiel not to go running for pitch forks. She then told Melaine and the two were soon gossiping about men fainting and such. If there was a promise not to tell, then I think it might have had an unspoken clause about not telling anyone not Aiel. I seem to also remember something about not telling Bael becuase she needed to tell her first sister first or something like that.

 

I don't know why I even posted. I barely remember the scene. I'm probably way off.

[BFG]

Random question about Min and the Wise Ones in LoC and ACoS:

 

In LoC, Min reveals her ability to see visions around people to Melaine.  She does this at Rand's prompting and assurance that Melaine will honour her promise not to tell anyone else.  The next time this comes up is in ACoS, and all of the Wise Ones and Maidens know about Min.  Granted, Min is quite happy at the outcome as no one seems to make a fuss about it, but wouldn't that give Melaine massive toh to Min for breaking her promise?  I can kind of see Melaine using the Wise Ones version of truth and honour to think that telling all the Wise Ones about Min still counts as keeping her secret, but all the Maidens too?

 

Secondly, Min is treated as an honourary Wise One purely because of her ability.  This doesn't seem quite right to me, as Wise Ones don't give status just for being a Dreamwalker, Dreamer, or channeler.  Their whole system is based on strength of character and earning respect (as we very much saw with Egwene - yes she was a pupil, but she would have had to earn their respect even if she wasn't), and Min just seems to be elevated to their level without them even knowing her. 

 

They treated Moiraine with respect solely because she was AS.  They thought Eg was as well, but they believed it very important that Eg obey instructions and listen to them, hence treating her as an apprentice.  They come to admire her as a person over time which they never do with Moiraine (or at least not to the same extent), but I think a similar process could exist with Min.

[mb]

About Melaine's promise to Min, the scene does not tell the exact words.  She might have promised to not tell to enemies.

Not sure how the Wise Ones and the Maidens found out.  There might be some chance of them finding out in a similar way as Melaine; ie Min telling some Viewing.  Also, the Maidens have seldom been out of Rand's presence; and Min has spent most of her time with Rand.

[Rhienne]

I think Rand says something to the extent that Min can trust Melaine to keep her secret. I read the scene a couple of days ago but don't have the book with me now.  Its a very minor point but was just curious as I definitely got the impression from the scene that Melaine had promised to keep Min's secret.  I don't think most people would assume that someone promising to keep a secret would then tell it to every other Wise One and Maiden!

[EmperorAllspice]

Was it ever foreshadowed in any of the books before book 4 that every Two Rivers man is a brilliant markman? Because I knew the 3 leads were, but I just assumed that was because they were the leads.

Edited April 24, 2013 by EmperorAllspice

[Suttree]

Was it ever foreshadowed in any of the books before book 4 that every Two Rivers man is a brilliant markman? Because I knew the 3 leads were, but I just assumed that was because they were the leads.

They are farmers/sheephearders. The staff and bow are their weapons of choice and also daily tools. Not to mention the fact that the area has seemed to develop it's own type of bow. It's ingrained into the culture of the area. 

[BFG]

Mat mentions that his dad and Rands are both better at the Quarterstaff than he is after he'd beaten Galad and Gawyn in tDR.  Not sure if there's anything directly referencing archery specifically

[EmperorAllspice]

but there are farmers in other areas of randland. What makes these ones special?

[Suttree]

but there are farmers in other areas of randland. What makes these ones special?

It's a culture that has been formed and shaped through extreme isolation in a bubble. They are unique. 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Suttree

[Rhienne]

 

but there are farmers in other areas of randland. What makes these ones special?

It's a culture that has been formed and shaped through extreme isolation in a bubble. They are unique. 

 

I think the cultural bubble would explain the development of the longbow being isolated to the Two Rivers.  I don't think it explains why they are all excellent marksman/significantly better than other archers.  Having a unique design of bow doesn't automatically them better shots, it just makes them capable of shooting further.  Using their longbows to fend of wolves and participate in feast day competitions will be an experience common to most farmers in mountainous areas in Randland.  This wouldn't be sufficient to make them superior to trained archers.  The only thing I can think of is that everyone in Randland comments on their skill purely because they can shoot further while still hitting a target, which is really down to their bows.