Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[EmperorAllspice]

Look. I just want team shadow to be competent. That's literally all I want. That's all I was promised by the person who recced this to me. that's all the "experience" I want, okay? Now I'm stuck with this series, so I might as well find out the things that I might like.

 

You people only ever seem to mention the awesome heroic moments (which I don't care about) in this series when I ask. So I have to guide you towards talking about the Forsaken.

 

... sorry, it's been a long day

[EmperorAllspice]

"experience" feh. I have no interest in watching Rand, Perrin or Mat do awesome things.

 

but I have to put up with it in all fiction. So I do. I fail to see how I'm ruining the experience though

[gpace1216]

i think he means that it appears that you look for reasons to dislike the main characters and desperately look for flaws in the storytelling.  i have no issue with critical reading, in fact i encourage it, but it comes across in your posts that you don't want to enjoy any aspects of the series that most people like.  if your friend told you that the villains are stronger characters than the heroes, then your friend is mistaken.  i do think the villains have much much more characterization than the average fiction story though.  but this isn't silence of the lambs.

[EmperorAllspice]

I've only ever liked 3 heroes being badass in my entire life. Most of the time I just like them as characters and I just tolerate their cool moments. I've always been like this

 

I like villains beause I like characters who're opposed to the heroes and offer them a challenge that'll require lots of work and determination to overcome. But first I need to buy the villain as a competent threat

[gpace1216]

yeah that makes sense.  i think @agitel and others are suggesting that the series and the characters will probably be more entertaining when looked at as a whole after reading, instead of trying to dissect each individual scene one at a time trying to figure out exactly what each forsaken is doing and means.  many of the plans take several books to understand.  we think you'll enjoy it more if you analyze it all after experiencing it, instead of asking for each evil character to be fully explained to you while its happening.  its more fun to watch a football game as it happens from beginning to end than it is to have someone tell you what the final score was and what the important plays will be halfway through the game.

 

even if you don't yet buy that all the villains are "competent," the fact that the good guys all think they are and set their plans around worrying about the forsaken should at least get through til you have something concrete to analyze.  even if at the end of one book it looks like one of the forsaken's plan failed, it might be just a step in their larger plan.  keep reading and find out.

 

continually asking us about a bad guy's future plans is like a little kid asking what he's getting for christmas when its not even december yet.  give it time.

[EmperorAllspice]

Oh, who's the 5th of the 5 great modern generals?

 

Gareth Bryne, Bashere, Ituralde and Pedran Niall are 4 of them. I'm not sure if I've been introduced to the 5th one yet. Are there even 5? Maybe I'm forgetting

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alegmar, he was in EotW and tGH in Sheinar - he is around, but not as much as the other 4. 

[Agitel]

Alegmar, he was in EotW and tGH in Sheinar - he is around, but not as much as the other 4. 

 

I think it was Agelmar. Agelmar Jagad.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Cheers, 

 

that's it. 

[EmperorAllspice]

So, has RJ ever said exactly who it was that spoke in Rand's head near the end of book 1?  I always assumed it was the Dark One (since Ishamael wasn't the real Dark One in that book despite everyone seeming to think he was) but I've heard some people say it was The Creator itself. If it is, then why would it speak to Rand like that? It's not like it would need to justify itself to anyone. It's god.

[Mr Ares]

So, has RJ ever said exactly who it was that spoke in Rand's head near the end of book 1?  I always assumed it was the Dark One (since Ishamael wasn't the real Dark One in that book despite everyone seeming to think he was) but I've heard some people say it was The Creator itself. If it is, then why would it speak to Rand like that? It's not like it would need to justify itself to anyone. It's god.

The Voice was something RJ always RAFOed, and Sanderson follows suit. It's not Shai'tan, though. Also, Shai'tan is as much a god as the Creator, so being god is not reason enough to not talk to people.

 

I wanna know what the hell happened with Demandred in the battle of Shadar Lagoth. Isn't Demandred supposed to be the 2nd strongest channeler who's EVER lived. Just barely second to Lews Therin in everything. A near unrivalled master in both chaneling based and physical combat.... yet he couldn't beat a single Asha'man in a small circle?

 

Yeah, that's a dignified introduction for one of my favourite villains -____-

No, Demandred is not supposed to be the second strongest channeler - he is, at best, the fourth strongest Chosen (behind Ishamael, Aginor and Lanfear), and is behind who knows how many on the side of the Light. As for the fight, it's not a fight he wanted to be part of - he's a general, not a foot soldier, so he wants to be commanding armies and not making solo strikes against the enemy. True, he would want to kill Rand, but then there's precious little point wasting time fighting people like Flinn - even if Demandred is better, a lucky shot could spell the end of him. So he backs away from the fight because he has nothing to gain from fighting it and because he doesn't want to fight it. If anything, it's an example of the competent villainy you keep asking for - to fight with no gain would be foolish. Retreat was the best option under the circumstances.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Mr Ares

[EmperorAllspice]

Oh, I just always heard that Demandred was second to Lews in everything (height, power, fame, good looks, etc)

[Rhienne]

I have a question (or maybe a clarification?) regarding the talents that the wondergirls have with ter'angreals.  From my memories of the series we have four different but overlapping abilities/talents:

 

- Egwene: can make cuendillar

- Elayne: can make ter'angreal

- Aviendha: knows the purpose of ter'angreal

- Nynaeve: can sense emotions connected with ter'angreal

 

I am just looking for a clarification if this is correct, and if these are all separate talents, or if, e.g. Nynaeve has a weaker version of Aviendha's talent (or is it something to do with Listening to the Wind?), or Egwene has a more specialsed version of Elayne's talents.  Also, can all of them do all these things once shown how?

[mb]

the emotions, I recall only the male adam.

weave-based Talents I take can be taught to any channeler and shown to same gender channelers; though some channelers may learn them better than other channelers.  From what you listed, cuendillar/terangreal making would fit this.

other Talents, I take the person would need to be born with in order to manifest them.  determining the purpose of specific terangreal, I would count as this type of Talent.

Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams have some info about the first 3 you mentioned.  Do not remember the exact chapter for either book.

 

 

 

repeating my last questions; some edits.

 

Towers of Midnight Chapters 36 through 38; 2 groups of saidar
channelers fight each other in telaranrhiod.  What was the total number
of participants within those 2 groups?

 

Around that time, Perrin and some wolves fought against Slayer.  How many wolves participated in that fight?

 

What was Mesaana doing while Seachan attacked the White Tower?  (Gathering Storm Chapters 40-41)

Also, did she get word of it from anyone either before or during the
attack?  If so, how & when did she find out and what was her
reaction?

[Rhienne]

 

the emotions, I recall only the male adam.

weave-based Talents I take can be taught to any channeler and shown

to same gender channelers; though some channelers may learn them better

than other channelers.  From what you listed, cuendillar/terangreal

making would fit this.

other Talents, I take the person would need to be born with in order

to manifest them.  determining the purpose of specific terangreal, I

would count as this type of Talent.

Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams have some info about the first 3 you mentioned.  Do not remember the exact chapter for either book.

Thanks.  Makes sense.  I think the sensing emotion thing also occured when Nyn, Avi, and El find the stash of ter'angreal with the Kin.  My recollection isn't great but I think Elayne and Nynaeve could both feel the evilness from the male a'dam, but Nynaeve could also feel emotions from some of the Ebou Dar ter'angreal stash that the others couldn't.

[Mr Ares]

Oh, I just always heard that Demandred was second to Lews in everything (height, power, fame, good looks, etc)

Demandred always came in second to LTT in his accomplishments. The other things, no real sign of an issue.

[Hagazussa]

This actually came up and me and my hubby where playing some Wheel of Time roleplaying. Myrddraal have some connection to channeling, one theory is that they are created when the channeling gene show up in a trolloc offspring, and they are needed to tun channelers to the Shadow. My question then is, could someone shield a fade, or try to sever them and what would the result be if it was tried.

 

Also I was wondering are Myrddraal born without eyes or do they loose them as they come of age, and at what age to they start to be able to teleport using shadows, I can imagine it to be rather frustrating for their trolloc mother if they do it from birth.

[Agitel]

This actually came up and me and my hubby where playing some Wheel of Time roleplaying. Myrddraal have some connection to channeling, one theory is that they are created when the channeling gene show up in a trolloc offspring, and they are needed to tun channelers to the Shadow. My question then is, could someone shield a fade, or try to sever them and what would the result be if it was tried.

 

Also I was wondering are Myrddraal born without eyes or do they loose them as they come of age, and at what age to they start to be able to teleport using shadows, I can imagine it to be rather frustrating for their trolloc mother if they do it from birth.

 

I actually really like your speculation, but I don't think we have the information necessary to answer your question.

[Hagazussa]

If I where to speculate I would say you probably could shield or sever a fade and that severing it most likely would kill it since it would destroy the part of it that make it different from trollocs. I think shielding it might prevent it from using it's powers, but off course this is just speculation and guess work as it never comes up in the books.

[Rhienne]

I don't think anything would happen if you tried to shield or still a myrdraal.  They don't do anything that seems like channeling so I don't think they would notice.  I don't think they can channel, and even if they have some latent channeling ability, it would maybe be like shielding or stilling someone like Egwene before she left the Two Rivers - she hadn't channeled so I don't think it would have any affect on her.

[Suttree]

We know that you can not shield or sever someone unless they have actively channeled. Not sure how that fits here but just tossing it out.

[Plato]

Did anyone read EotW, TGH, TDR in quick succession and notice that TDR seemed to be written slightly different.  Like the sentence structure, and characters were all slightly off.  Everything about it seemed different from the first 2 books!  I can't put my finger on it tho, it just put a bad taste in my mouth going into TSR. 

[Whizbang]

The area where the eyes should be is smooth skin. They never had eyes.

 

Also, I don't think there is such a thing as baby fades. We don't know the process that makes them, but I imagine that they are either full-grown people converted to fade (much like Darkhounds are corrupted wolves), or they have a very rapid gestation/growth process (I am thinking of the Uruk Hai).

[jedman67]

The area where the eyes should be is smooth skin. They never had eyes.

 

Also, I don't think there is such a thing as baby fades. We don't know the process that makes them, but I imagine that they are either full-grown people converted to fade (much like Darkhounds are corrupted wolves), or they have a very rapid gestation/growth process (I am thinking of the Uruk Hai).

Myrdraal are the "throwbacks" to human stock "born" from Trollocs. Trollocs were created originally by Aginor using many animals, people and very likely a large dose of the True Power. Trollocs are essentially mis-formed beasts with a small level of human intelligence and cunning, very strong and very selfish and cruel. 

Every so often, trollocs breed Myrdraal, my theory is that they may very well be "living te'rangreal" that use the TP. (they can Travel using shadows; Traveling itself has little to do with the One Power except for the process of making gateways; they can sense channeling and active channelers, and they can be used to focus certain weaves).

[Hagazussa]

Also, I don't think there is such a thing as baby fades. We don't know

the process that makes them, but I imagine that they are either

full-grown people converted to fade (much like Darkhounds are corrupted

wolves), or they have a very rapid gestation/growth process (I am

thinking of the Uruk Hai).

 

Actually there are baby fades. Now Myrddraal are born to trolloc mothers, basically they are throwbacks to the human roots of trollocs. Probably the first trollocs where created about like the Uruk Hai, a bit more clean an in the lab but the same concept, but in the third age they breed and replenish their number by having offspring. About five percent of the children trollocs have are Myrddraal which have led some to speculate that what creates them are the channeling gene, that when a trolloc baby is born that should have been a channeler if born to a human that child will be a Myrddraal. Now whatever or not trollocs and Myrddraal grow up faster than human do, that is possible. I mean if i was an evil technomancer intent on creating an army of beastmen to secure victory for my inhuman master I would add in a feature so I do not have to wait fifteen to twenty years for them to be useful. When that is said, most of the animals that the trollocs are mixed with reach adulthood allot quicker than humans and the trolloc might grow at their rate, a fate however is a throwback to the human side of the equation so they might take longer to reach adulthood.

 

We know that you can not shield or sever someone unless they have

actively channeled. Not sure how that fits here but just tossing it out.

 

Yes we know this, however fades are said to have some connection to channeling several times, and they can sense channeling. I guess the question that came up during my RPG session was whatever or not the powers a fade have is channeling though a limited and rather crippled version of it, you have the 13 channelers plus 13 fades theory which sound to me rather much like a form of linking. Now it is clear that the fades are not full channelers or fireballs would be flying from the shadows, but is it possible that what they can do, the fear they can cause, the fading, their ability to sense channeling and channelers and so on is due to some limited use of the One Power? For if so they would have an active but limited connection to the Source.