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good point although neither Perrin himself nor Egwene are close invincible in TAR.

 

In general, it's clear (especially from his interviews) that BS kept inventing stuff about TAR entirely on his own, without fully checking it against the previously established rules. At this point TAR rules are pretty much broken and I gave up looking for consistency there. Yours is but one example of that.

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Taken from the "Fun Facts" section of the tEotW synopsis on this site:

The original U.S. book covers for the book featured at least one additional character from the Two Rivers. According to Robert Jordan, this character was intended to be a major character in the series. But very quickly the character was cut and their role was merged with that of other characters.

 

Who was this other character and how were they merged into the other, remaining character?

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I wonder if souls destroyed in T'a'R are really destroyed, and don't instead go back to the universal soul pool, from which all souls are reborn. It'd be kinda cool if Hopper, or any wolf killed in the Dream, were to be later reborn as a wolfbrother, or just reborn anyway. I mean, the last image sent from Hopper was of him soaring into nothingness, not of his soul being shattered or destroyed.

 

It seems clear that vulnerability in the Dream stems from acceptance of what's in the Dream, and that acceptance is not an immediately conscious affair. You have to acknowledge the danger before you can deny it, and you are vulnerable in the moments between acknowledgement and denial. It's also clear that the Dream is malleable through an act of will by the Dreamer, and when two Dreamers face off in the Dream, it's a matter of will vs will. The Heroes, when called by the Horn, are both of the Dream and in the real world, and their vulnerability/effectiveness depends upon the strength of will of the one in the real world that leads them.

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souls killed in TAR are really destroyed. this is confirmed in the books by Hopper and also in the interviews by BS.

 

blindillusion

 

Is there any way for someone to be removed completely from the Pattern?

Brandon Sanderson

 

(Sorry I cannot put out his precise words, but here is the gist)—Jordan started by having balefire do this, but he later debunked this theory by saying someone killed by balefire can be reborn at some point. We currently know of nothing/no method that will completely remove someone from the Pattern.

blindillusion

 

I thanked him and turned to walk away at this point, so that he could continue with the signing. But he called me back and commented that:

Brandon Sanderson

 

The wolves in the Wolf Dream. We know that in the Wolf Dream something can be completely removed from the Pattern.

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Taken from the "Fun Facts" section of the tEotW synopsis on this site:

The original U.S. book covers for the book featured at least one additional character from the Two Rivers. According to Robert Jordan, this character was intended to be a major character in the series. But very quickly the character was cut and their role was merged with that of other characters.

 

Who was this other character and how were they merged into the other, remaining character?

 

IIRC it was Wil al'Seen...

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actually Fain's powers do not affect Fades the same way they do Trollocs. Trollocs rise from the dead after being "infected" by his Mashadar fog. Fades just die. At the end of ToM, Fain comments on this to himself.
It is actually in the Prologue, not at the end.

The rising I take to be another ability.

And I said "similar"; not "the same". From checking the scene, it does not specify on how it affected the myddraal.

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We know channeling run in bloodlines, if a channeler have a child it is a bigger chance that child will be a channeler or that their children will be, but what about other abilities, if you have a sniffer is there a bigger chance a sniffer's children will inherit the ability? What about wolf brothers do that run in family lines?

 

Also can a woman be a sniffer?

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Sammael had traveled Shaido to Illian and Ghealdan. But why Ghealdan? I don't think he knew Perrin was there. So what was his purpose?

to spread them about and cause the westlands to distrust/hate the Aiel even more. Which by extension would make them distrust Rand and less likely to join with him

Thanks.

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We know channeling run in bloodlines, if a channeler have a child it is a bigger chance that child will be a channeler or that their children will be, but what about other abilities, if you have a sniffer is there a bigger chance a sniffer's children will inherit the ability? What about wolf brothers do that run in family lines?

That's a popular assumption by the characters in the books but it's by no means certain. There is evidence. Like Rand's children from Aviendha, Morgase-Elayne, Ayyad in Shara, Emarin-Algarin (there is mention of the family's male ancestors having an unnamed problem, most likely it's channeling) , or from AMoL Prologue:

 

Samma N'Sei

 

AFAIK there is no definitive answer to it in the interview database, someone correct me if I'm wrong. What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

 

Also can a woman be a sniffer?

Most likely. But we have only seen one sniffer, so I don't know. There can be wolfsisters though.

Edited by Cem Önal

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What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

Where does this knowledge come from? In particular, I mean:

  1. That wolfkinship is tied to the soul.
  2. That a soul always manifests such properties when they exist in the world.

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Okay I was re-reading Winter's Heart and in one of the first chapters (perhaps the first) we find out Rand is asking about Shara in Rhuidean. Do we find out why? Does it come up later in the book and I just forgot?

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What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

Where does this knowledge come from? In particular, I mean:

  1. That wolfkinship is tied to the soul.
     
  2. That a soul always manifests such properties when they exist in the world.

 

I'm assuming it's an assumption because of the fact that hopper tells him the soul of wolves come to the wolf dream when they die, and I'm pretty sure he says or implys that Perrin's soul would as well. So while I would question it as well, it is strongly implied that Perirn, being basically a wolf (within the wolf dream and such), he should always be one right?

 

We know channeling run in bloodlines, if a channeler have a child it is a bigger chance that child will be a channeler or that their children will be, but what about other abilities, if you have a sniffer is there a bigger chance a sniffer's children will inherit the ability? What about wolf brothers do that run in family lines?

That's a popular assumption by the characters in the books but it's by no means certain. There is evidence. Like Rand's children from Aviendha, Morgase-Elayne, Ayyad in Shara, Emarin-Algarin (there is mention of the family's male ancestors having an unnamed problem, most likely it's channeling) , or from AMoL Prologue:

 

Samma N'Sei

 

AFAIK there is no definitive answer to it in the interview database, someone correct me if I'm wrong. What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

 

Also can a woman be a sniffer?

Most likely. But we have only seen one sniffer, so I don't know. There can be wolfsisters though.

 

This is right on. There are a couple threads with people debating, myself included, on how can it be heridatary. Basically the math doesn't add up. But RJ strongly implys that it is able to be passed down when he says the WT has "culled" the ability out by gentling men. (Which makes 0 sense, but I won't debate that here again).

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Okay I was re-reading Winter's Heart and in one of the first chapters (perhaps the first) we find out Rand is asking about Shara in Rhuidean. Do we find out why? Does it come up later in the book and I just forgot?

 

Wasn't this when he was still Emo Rand, and he was disturbed about how his existence affected the world negatively? He heard that a place he had never heard of, or seen was rioting just because he existed. He was bemoaning the loss, pain, and violence that he coming brought.

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AFAIK there is no definitive answer to it in the interview database, someone correct me if I'm wrong. What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

 

 

There is in fact an answer. The ability to channel at least, is a matter of both soul and genetics.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 2nd, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also.

 

 

 

Yoniy0: RJ has commented on both channelling and wolfbrotherness. Apparently they can channel in every life (see quote 1). (in ages without channelling, I would say it means they are all born learners, which just doesn't develop) Wolfbrotherness only happens in an age where the possibility exists, but I take it that the soul is always a wolfbrother, just doesn't display those properties all the time. (see quote 2)

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 3rd, 2005

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Verbatim)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

I don't think I have said if you are born with the spark you would have the have the spark again. I have said if you were born with the ability to channel, to learn or with the spark, you will, when your soul is born again, you will have the ability again, whether with the spark or without.

 

INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Women certainly can be wolfbrothers, though the term would be wolfsisters. A wolfbrother or wolfsister reborn in another age would only be a wolfbrother or wolfsister again if that were possible in that Age. The ability to speak with wolves doesn't exist in every Age.

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Okay I was re-reading Winter's Heart and in one of the first chapters (perhaps the first) we find out Rand is asking about Shara in Rhuidean. Do we find out why? Does it come up later in the book and I just forgot?

 

As I recall, Rand was laying down false trails for his enemies to follow after the Asha'man attack in Cairhien. He does the same in Tear if I remember correctly.

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Okay I was re-reading Winter's Heart and in one of the first chapters (perhaps the first) we find out Rand is asking about Shara in Rhuidean. Do we find out why? Does it come up later in the book and I just forgot?

 

As I recall, Rand was laying down false trails for his enemies to follow after the Asha'man attack in Cairhien. He does the same in Tear if I remember correctly.

 

Yup, GYLD has the right of it...

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New question, If asking about the shadow in finnland is dangerous, does the same hold for asking about the Shadar Logath evil?

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New question, If asking about the shadow in finnland is dangerous, does the same hold for asking about the Shadar Logath evil?
It is actually asking to the Aelfinn. The Eelfinn I take have different kind of limits.

Shadar Logoth I would guess would be very close to touching the Shadow since the Shadow seemed to contribute to the cause of that type of evil.

Edited by mb

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AFAIK there is no definitive answer to it in the interview database, someone correct me if I'm wrong. What we know for certain is ability to channel or being a wolfbrother is tied to the soul. Perrin will always be reborn as a wolfbrother in an Age where wolfbrothers exist and Egwene will always be reborn as a channeler where channelers exist.

 

There is in fact an answer. The ability to channel at least, is a matter of both soul and genetics.

INTERVIEW: Oct 2nd, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also.

Thanks. This is interesting. It's like the Wheel tends to force the channeler souls be reborn from channeler bloodlines.

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I was reading in book 7 the scene where Elaida and Alviarin is discussing what to do about the Black Tower and Eladia say that there can curly not be that many male channelers there since they have only found six male channelers channelers the last ten years and only twenty four the last twenty years then Alviarin say that twenty four is a dangerous number since the official number is sixteen, she then says twenty four is as dangerous a number a two thosand what do she mean? I get that the twenty four is the number of male channelers the Red Ajah have four compared to the sixteen they have bought in, but what do the number two thosand mean? This is the quote I was wondering about:

 

“In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured.

“Twenty-four is a dangerous number to speak aloud,” Alviarin said, “as dangerous as two thousand. The Chronicles record only sixteen. The last thing needed now is for those years to rear up again. Or for sisters who know only what they were told to learn the truth.”

(A Crown of Swords, Prologue)

Edited by Hagazussa

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I was reading in book 7 the scene where Elaida and Alviarin is discussing what to do about the Black Tower and Eladia say that there can curly not be that many male channelers there since they have only found six male channelers channelers the last ten years and only twenty four the last twenty years then Alviarin say that twenty four is a dangerous number since the official number is sixteen, she then says twenty four is as dangerous a number a two thosand what do she mean? I get that the twenty four is the number of male channelers the Red Ajah have four compared to the sixteen they have bought in, but what do the number two thosand mean? This is the quote I was wondering about:

 

“In ten years, we have found only six men with the ability. Just twenty-four in the last twenty years. And you know how the land has been scoured.

“Twenty-four is a dangerous number to speak aloud,” Alviarin said, “as dangerous as two thousand. The Chronicles record only sixteen. The last thing needed now is for those years to rear up again. Or for sisters who know only what they were told to learn the truth.”

(A Crown of Swords, Prologue)

 

It refers to the secret "cleansing" of male channelers that wasn't "on the books" that the Red Ajah was doing in the years prior to 985NE.

In 985NE, the 3 sitters for the Red Ajah; Toveine, Tsutama and Lirene were exiled by Siuan Sanche's predecessor Marith Jaen for these crimes. The exact details were not public knowledge. (aCoS-Prologue and tPoD-26).

It was also revealed by Chesmal Emry(WH-10), that even though it wasn't an actual Black Ajah plot or plan(aCoS-Prologue), that she, on her own, induced the Red Ajah to kill Marith Jaen's predecessor Sierin Vayu. Presumedly by making them believe that Marith was on to their off the books cleansing practices.

This is what happened to Thom's nephew and the subject of the info Moiraine promised him.

 

On top of this, the Black Ajah from 979NE through 982NE were killing any male that was considered "lucky" wether they were channeling or not. These orders precipitated Ishamael's killing of then Head of the Black Ajah, Jarna Malari. Resulting in Alviarin Friedhen's appointment to the position (aCoS-Prologue).

 

 

So while 16 might be the official number and 24 might be the whispered unofficial number, the actual number is most likely much higher. Maybe even as high as the 2000 Alviarin mentions. The only thing we do know is that a stop was put to it in 985NE. What we don't know is just how long it was being done, we could be talking decades or even longer for all we know.

Edited by Finnssss

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I don't think the question was about the "vileness". I think he was asking about the significance of number 2000.

 

My personal opinion, it was only a figure of speech. It's a stretch but maybe like outing of that secret would be as dangerous to the WT as having 2000 Asha'man in BT. Alternatively, it could be something about BA, but I have a hard time believing cool, controlled Alviarin would blabber the secrets of BA in front of Elaida. IIRC, Black Ajah is 2000 years old.

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That is right it was the significance of the number 2000 I was wondering about and whatever it had anything to do with the Reds hunting down male channelers en mass for field gentlings. I mean while the number might have been over 24, 2000 is a huge number, I mean if it where 2000 in such a short time the general population would have noticed, there would have been allot of oh did you hear about Martha her husband was attacked by some Aes Sedai and where never the same again. Oh yes I have heard about that, it happened over in the next village also to my sister in law's uncle, what ae going on. I mean a few that would go under the radar but 2000 in a few decades that would make people talk.

 

The only way I can see 2000 having anything to do with male channelers gentled in the field is if the number is stretched out over a long time. I mean if the Tower (officially) have found 16 male channelers in 20 years that is nearly one a year and their number have over the years gone down as far as I understand it so 500 years before the start of the books they might have found two or three a year with such numbers it is possible that 2000 more could be on top of the official number. However if 2000 male channelers where gentled in the field outside of the vileness what would be the motivation? I get that the Reds might on a few occasions just not be able to control themselves and they do it much like a mob would kill someone, but why risk doing it unless there is a reason as the result will be the same once they get that man to the Tower. With that cleansing fifteen years or so before the start of the books there where a reason as they Ajah had more or less ordered it's members to do so, but before that, what would motivate a circle of Reds who have hunted down a male channeler to then instead of taking him to the Tower and getting credit for taking him down instead decide to break Tower law just go saying of f*** it tie him to a three girls and let's bing out the Spirit weaves, at least so routinely that the number get to 2000. After all if I do not remember it wrong if a male channeler is extremely dangerous sanction can be given to legally gentle him in the field so there would be no reason to go vigilante.

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I don't think 2000 has anything to do with gentled male channelers. It is just a dangerous number signifying some other thing. But for the love of Light, I can't think of what.

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