Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Terez]

"secret" meetings are not proof.

No one said anything about proof. I'm just saying, she might not be the best example to use to make your point.

[mb]

Could not recall any other Aes Sedia that was shielded.

[LazyMonk]

While Siuan was stilled and after, she could lie. Now, stilling is permanently sealing the AS from the True Source. They can still feel the Source, but not use it, the same as in momentary shielding.

The feel of the source is usually described as a light or a warmth in the back of the mind or behind one's shoulder--just out of reach.

The only personal description of a stilled person is Siuan in her cell: "Despite herself she tried to embrace saidar. There was nothing there. Not for her. Only the emptiness inside..."

I'd say that the severed CANNOT feel the source.

[Leyrann]

Could not recall any other Aes Sedia that was shielded.

 

All the captured AS at Dumai's Wells.

[Leyrann]

3. She was giving Cadsuane the Black Ajah secret signal when they met.

 

Can you quote that?

 

(and maybe the one of Halima too, because it's maybe a bit different in Dutch)

Edited September 30, 2011 by Leyrann

[mb]

Could not recall any other Aes Sedia that was shielded.

All the captured AS at Dumai's Wells.

But they were silent while being shielded.

[Xcorpyo001]

While Siuan was stilled and after, she could lie. Now, stilling is permanently sealing the AS from the True Source. They can still feel the Source, but not use it, the same as in momentary shielding.

The feel of the source is usually described as a light or a warmth in the back of the mind or behind one's shoulder--just out of reach.

The only personal description of a stilled person is Siuan in her cell: "Despite herself she tried to embrace saidar. There was nothing there. Not for her. Only the emptiness inside..."

I'd say that the severed CANNOT feel the source.

 

 

Actually, it's in TGH, chapter 5

Stilled. The word seemed to quiver in the air, almost visible. When it was done to a man who could channel the Power, who must be stopped before madness drove him to the destruction of all around him, it was called gentling, but for Aes Sedai it was stilling. Stilled. No longer able to channel the flow of the One Power. Able to sense saidar, the female half of the True Source, but no longer having the ability to touch it. Remembering what was gone forever. So seldom had it been done that every novice was required to learn the name of each Aes Sedai since the Breaking of the World who had been stilled, and her crime, but none could think of it without a shudder. Women bore being stilled no better than men did being gentled.

 

 

Siuan was probably talking about the fact she couldn't use it, but it was there.

[Sharaman]

The oaths seem to hold in Far Madding and in stedding?

[yoniy0]

That Black the wondergirls caught in Tear (I'm fairly certain one was Stilled and one wasn't, right?) was apparently under the influence of the Oath against betraying the Shadow's plans. I think the BA hunters also commented on how the ones they caught wouldn't reveal anything unless they were made to remove their Oaths, but I don't remember exactly when that came up.

 

EDIT:

Oh, no, that was the Black that Nynaeve and Elayne had the Namelle sisters question, wasn't it?

Edited September 30, 2011 by yoniy0

[Luckers]

Annoura was shielded; Crown of Swords Chapter 5. She seems bound to the 3 Oaths; the Oaths seemed to still apply when she was shielded.

Annoura is probably Black Ajah.

 

Why do you think that?

 

Read my Masuri, Annoura and Masema's Shiny Dragon Man Theory

 

In addition, when Annoura meets Cadsuane she is rubbing her fingers furiously, a break of composure noted as very odd by Merana, and one which is very much like the Black Ajah signal that Aran'gar uses with Delana. It's in aCoS chapter 19, I believe.

[Terez]

LOC

 

Delana opened her mouth to say that she had never heard of any Halima Saranov, and a woman appeared in the doorway. Delana stared in spite of herself. The woman managed to be slender and lush at the same time, and wore a dark gray riding dress cut ridiculously low; long lustrous black hair framed a green-eyed face that probably made every man who glimpsed it gape. That was not why Delana stared, of course. The woman held her hands at her sides, but with thumbs thrust hard between the first two fingers. Delana had never expected to see that from any woman who did not wear the shawl, and this Halima Saranov could not even channel. She was close enough to be sure of that.

 

ACOS

 

"I am here only to advise Berelain, though the truth of it is, she ignored my advice by coming in the first place." The Taraboner woman held her head up, voice confident. She was rubbing her thumbs for all she was worth, though. She could not do well at the negotiating table if she was that transparent. "For the rest," she said carefully, "I have reached no decision as yet."....

 

....That accusing glare hit Annoura so hard, she almost fell off the bed. "The Aiel War?" she gasped, steadying herself. "The years after, I spent trying to make the so-called Grand Coalition more than a name."

 

Merana looked at Annoura with interest. A good many of the Gray Ajah had scurried from capital to capital after, the war, in a futile effort to hold together the alliance that had formed against the Aiel, but she had never known Annoura was one of them. She could not be that bad a negotiator if she was.

[Leyrann]

Thanks, both of you. I am not fully convinced, but I wouldn't say she is not either.

 

And that theory is interesting, Luckers.

[GYLD]

During the scene where Annoura is first introduced, when Rand returns from Dumai's Wells, Annoura is described rubbing her thumbs against her forefingers nervously. This is immediately after Colavere faints where Annoura was the only Aes Sedai in that room, so she would have no reason to be making Black Ajah hand signals. Seems to me she just has a nervous habit of rubbing her thumbs.

 

Also ACOS

 

"Perrin was sure the Asha'man would have let her fall.

 

Annoura tsked. She did not appear surprised, or perturbed, except that her thumbs rubbed her forefinger nervously. 'I suspect she would have preferred the headsman. I will see to her if you have your man..., your... Asha'man...'"

Edited October 2, 2011 by GYLD

[Xcorpyo001]

During the scene where Annoura is first introduced, when Rand returns from Dumai's Wells, Annoura is described rubbing her thumbs against her forefingers nervously. This is immediately after Colavere faints where Annoura was the only Aes Sedai in that room, so she would have no reason to be making Black Ajah hand signals. Seems to me she just has a nervous habit of rubbing her thumbs.

 

Also ACOS

 

"Perrin was sure the Asha'man would have let her fall.

 

Annoura tsked. She did not appear surprised, or perturbed, except that her thumbs rubbed her forefinger nervously. 'I suspect she would have preferred the headsman. I will see to her if you have your man..., your... Asha'man...'"

 

Don't forget the talk Cadsuane had with Annoura&co.

The thumb is the least of her slip up.

She is playing with her thumbs, and Cadsuane asks her in a calm way if she was somehow related to the 'vile business' after the Aiel War, and she almost falls off the bed, and loses all composure.

I think Cadsuane asked her about the execution of the Amyrlin and the deaths of all the AS in the search party that tried to locate Rand.

If the thumbs can be explained, that other slip-up can't unless she knows about the search or the killings, and the only live persons on the Light side that do know about it were Siuan and Moiraine.

[csarmi]

No she asked about the business of stilling several male channelers on the spot (contrary to tower law).

[Terez]

Also, there were some non-Darkfriend Reds including Elaida and Barasine who were involved.

[Leyrann]

And that Red Ajah leader and Tarna. They neither were (not are, were) Black Ajah. But I know that Tarna is sort of now.

[Xcorpyo001]

No she asked about the business of stilling several male channelers on the spot (contrary to tower law).

 

 

Those gentlings are later. Or stretched over 20 years, not exactly after the Aiel War. And that was a talk between Elaida and Alviarin.

The killing of the ex-gray Amyrlin was years later, by the Red Ajah, not exactly after the Aiel War.

Annoura is gray.

 

 

Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. “Were either of you involved in that . . . vileness . . . right after the Aiel War?”

 

Despite herself, Merana gave a confused start. The other woman’s eyes spoke of the block and the headsman’s axe. “What vileness? I don’t know what you are talking about.”

 

That accusing glare hit Annoura so hard, she almost fell off the bed. “The Aiel War?” she gasped, steadying herself. “The years after, I spent trying to make the so-called Grand Coalition more than a name.”

 

Merana looked at Annoura with interest. A good many of the Gray Ajah had scurried from capital to capital after, the war, in a futile effort to hold together the alliance that had formed against the Aiel, but she had never known Annoura was one of them. She could not be that bad a negotiator if she was. “So did I,” she said. Dignity. Since setting out after al’Thor from Caemlyn, she had not retained much of that. The few scraps remaining were too precious to lose. She made her voice calm, and firm. “What vileness do you mean, Cadsuane?”

 

The gray-haired woman simply waved the question away, as though she had never spoken the word.

 

She's very specific about the 'right after' part.

-The search party was killed

-the Amyrlin(Tamra Ospenya) was killed by the BA

-the BA started killing lucky men.

 

THe gentlings were stretched out over 20 years.

The Amyrlin killed by the Reds(Sierin Vayu) died 5 years years after the Aiel Wars, not exactly after.

[Finnssss22]

No she asked about the business of stilling several male channelers on the spot (contrary to tower law).

 

 

Those gentlings are later. Or stretched over 20 years, not exactly after the Aiel War. And that was a talk between Elaida and Alviarin.

The killing of the ex-gray Amyrlin was years later, by the Red Ajah, not exactly after the Aiel War.

Annoura is gray.

 

 

Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. “Were either of you involved in that . . . vileness . . . right after the Aiel War?”

 

Despite herself, Merana gave a confused start. The other woman’s eyes spoke of the block and the headsman’s axe. “What vileness? I don’t know what you are talking about.”

 

That accusing glare hit Annoura so hard, she almost fell off the bed. “The Aiel War?” she gasped, steadying herself. “The years after, I spent trying to make the so-called Grand Coalition more than a name.”

 

Merana looked at Annoura with interest. A good many of the Gray Ajah had scurried from capital to capital after, the war, in a futile effort to hold together the alliance that had formed against the Aiel, but she had never known Annoura was one of them. She could not be that bad a negotiator if she was. “So did I,” she said. Dignity. Since setting out after al’Thor from Caemlyn, she had not retained much of that. The few scraps remaining were too precious to lose. She made her voice calm, and firm. “What vileness do you mean, Cadsuane?”

 

The gray-haired woman simply waved the question away, as though she had never spoken the word.

 

She's very specific about the 'right after' part.

-The search party was killed

-the Amyrlin(Tamra Ospenya) was killed by the BA

-the BA started killing lucky men.

 

THe gentlings were stretched out over 20 years.

The Amyrlin killed by the Reds(Sierin Vayu) died 5 years years after the Aiel Wars, not exactly after.

 

 

 

The illegal gentling ends in 985 (15ish years ago) when Marith Jaen exiles Toveine, Tsutama and Lirene. They were the 3 sitters for the Red Ajah at the time and took the blame but they were not necessarily the ones responsible.

 

Also, Jarna Malari, who was the head of the Black Ajah before Alviarin, was the one that had them killing lucky men and she was killed by Ishamael when he found out.

She is also the one who had Tamra Ospenya killed.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Finnssss

[Suttree]

No she asked about the business of stilling several male channelers on the spot (contrary to tower law).

 

 

Those gentlings are later. Or stretched over 20 years, not exactly after the Aiel War. And that was a talk between Elaida and Alviarin.

The killing of the ex-gray Amyrlin was years later, by the Red Ajah, not exactly after the Aiel War.

Annoura is gray.

 

 

Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. “Were either of you involved in that . . . vileness . . . right after the Aiel War?”

 

Despite herself, Merana gave a confused start. The other woman’s eyes spoke of the block and the headsman’s axe. “What vileness? I don’t know what you are talking about.”

 

That accusing glare hit Annoura so hard, she almost fell off the bed. “The Aiel War?” she gasped, steadying herself. “The years after, I spent trying to make the so-called Grand Coalition more than a name.”

 

Merana looked at Annoura with interest. A good many of the Gray Ajah had scurried from capital to capital after, the war, in a futile effort to hold together the alliance that had formed against the Aiel, but she had never known Annoura was one of them. She could not be that bad a negotiator if she was. “So did I,” she said. Dignity. Since setting out after al’Thor from Caemlyn, she had not retained much of that. The few scraps remaining were too precious to lose. She made her voice calm, and firm. “What vileness do you mean, Cadsuane?”

 

The gray-haired woman simply waved the question away, as though she had never spoken the word.

 

She's very specific about the 'right after' part.

-The search party was killed

-the Amyrlin(Tamra Ospenya) was killed by the BA

-the BA started killing lucky men.

 

THe gentlings were stretched out over 20 years.

The Amyrlin killed by the Reds(Sierin Vayu) died 5 years years after the Aiel Wars, not exactly after.

 

 

The gentlings and killing of lucky men were both part of "the vileness". Thoms nephew was one of those gentled...

[Xcorpyo001]

 

The gentlings and killing of lucky men were both part of "the vileness". Thoms nephew was one of those gentled...

 

 

They may both be vile, but they are unrelated. The sisters that gentled Owin overstepped their authority, but they were just Red, not BA. And Elaida might have been one of those sisters.

The death of the Amyrln, the death of every member of the search party, and the 'guess the DR' game(lucky men) is only related to BA, and those happened right after the Aiel War, just as Cadsuane phrased her question.

The unlawful gentling are mostly related to the Red Ajah. Annoura is Gray. I don't think every Ajah started gentling people after the Aiel War.

We know that Cadsuane was hunting the BA at one time, and that there is a BA signal with the thumbs(Cadsuade might have found out about it...I think that is the method used by Verin), and so she asked something related to the vile acts perpetrated by the BA, not those by the Reds.

[MasterAblar]

So, why was there mass unlawful gentling of men by the Reds anyway?

Edited October 2, 2011 by Master Ablar

[Xcorpyo001]

So, why was there mass unlawful gentling of men by the Reds anyway?

 

 

Because that's what they do?!?

From a Red's perspective, and any other AS for that matter, they did the right thing.

Any man that can channel has to be gentled. But what they did with Owyn, gentling him on the spot, and making everybody in his village aware of the fact he was a male channeler(DF in their eyes) was a bad thing.

They could have at least make a male channeler protection program or or something like that, so they can live the remaining of their life safe. Pointing them out as DF in the middle of a mob and leave is not right.

[Terez]

The Black Ajah was trying to kill (or gentle) any man who could possibly be the Dragon Reborn. This starts right after the Aiel War, and you can bet that Galina was heavily involved.

[MasterAblar]

So, why was there mass unlawful gentling of men by the Reds anyway?

 

 

Because that's what they do?!?

From a Red's perspective, and any other AS for that matter, they did the right thing.

Any man that can channel has to be gentled. But what they did with Owyn, gentling him on the spot, and making everybody in his village aware of the fact he was a male channeler(DF in their eyes) was a bad thing.

They could have at least make a male channeler protection program or or something like that, so they can live the remaining of their life safe. Pointing them out as DF in the middle of a mob and leave is not right.

 

Well, yes I realise that the Reds job is to hunt down and gentle male channellers, but they aren't supposed to do that on the spot. They're supposed to take the man back to the WT to gentle him, like Cadsuane has done in the past. My question is why the Reds suddenly started to ignore the, and it must have been execeptional for Cadsuane to refer to it specifically as vile.

 

The Black Ajah was trying to kill (or gentle) any man who could possibly be the Dragon Reborn. This starts right after the Aiel War, and you can bet that Galina was heavily involved.

 

So you mean that the Black Ajah would have used black members among the Red Ajah to influence the other Reds to go against Tower law and gentle male channellers on the spot hoping to take out the Dragon Reborn, is that it? That's actually pretty smart. Shame they're missing the critical information that the DR is just a baby at that time.