Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think God can be sneaky that's all.

 

And I only really look at quotes if a link is posted. Don't usually have as much time for this as I have had over the last few days because I've been sick and off work. I tend to get carried away when I'm on a roll and I'm not a patient person. If I think something is unjustified, I'll say so, vehemently. I can't help who I am but I thought I was mild in what I said earlier.

 

Well here is the link. I don't take offence at not trusting something without a link. After all, as I said in the other thread, I could make up anything and put it in quotes.

 

http://www.theorylan...ntvsresults.php (not sure if this works, sometimes it doesn't, if not, it is on the site under Finns, TAR, and such.

 

 

I agree that RJ can indeed be sneaky. I am not sure how it can be seen so in this case when he states right out "this cannot be done." However, you may be correct.

 

Again, this was not a personal attack on you, nor did I fail to realise the reasoning in what you said. I was simply pointing out that it was not the case, according to the quoted report.

 

Edit: Oh, and I hope you get better I am also sick at the moment. Flu season in Australia right?

Edited July 26, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Luckers]

Lan = Ninja.

 

Lol. While I can see Lan being a Ninja, I cannot see him sneaking Moriane in with him and his Ninja skills. But still gave me a chuckle.

 

Everyone else got in thru windows right? although how the hell Rand squeezed in thru an arrow slit, when we all know he has broad shoulders is beyond me. Not to mention climbing what I always thought was a smooth surface. Honestly, the Stone doesn't seem like a very good fortress. I mean many people broke in the first time they saw the damn place, but that's neither here nor there.

 

And yet that is precisely what he did. You can chuckle at it all you want, it is still cannon. Lan found a way to sneak both himself and Moiraine in. Much like Rand, Mat and Juilin found a way in.

 

Aight, some clarity... firstly in researching i realised i misnamed Folded Light, Inverted Light. So... from there...

 

Folded Light = Making oneself invisible. Causes ripples with movement.

 

Illusion = What Moiraine, Alanna and the Salidar embassy did when they made themselves huge. It's basically taking their own image and blowing it up--it is a weak version of Mirror of Mists, much the same as Liandrin and Verin's compulsions are a mild version of true compulsion.

 

Mirror of Mists = Actually creating a fully distinct illusion. Note: in early drafts this was incorrectly called Mask of Mirrors.

 

But if you attach it to the floor, and walk behind it, is that rippling? If so, what was the point of doing their campsite like that, if it would make ripples. So Moraine had to know Mirror of Mists.

 

No. Again, Mirror of Mists is disguising oneself as someone else--like when Lanfear makes herself look like Keille.

 

Folded Light, making oneself invisible, is utterly distinct from Mirror of the Mists. And no, when Folded Light is anchored to the ground it makes them completely invisible, irrespective of movement, no ripples. It is only if the weaving moves that the ripple occurs.

[Lisa Campbell]

I think God can be sneaky that's all.

 

And I only really look at quotes if a link is posted. Don't usually have as much time for this as I have had over the last few days because I've been sick and off work. I tend to get carried away when I'm on a roll and I'm not a patient person. If I think something is unjustified, I'll say so, vehemently. I can't help who I am but I thought I was mild in what I said earlier.

 

Well here is the link. I don't take offence at not trusting something without a link. After all, as I said in the other thread, I could make up anything and put it in quotes.

 

http://www.theorylan...ntvsresults.php (not sure if this works, sometimes it doesn't, if not, it is on the site under Finns, TAR, and such.

 

 

I agree that RJ can indeed be sneaky. I am not sure how it can be seen so in this case when he states right out "this cannot be done." However, you may be correct.

 

Again, this was not a personal attack on you, nor did I fail to realise the reasoning in what you said. I was simply pointing out that it was not the case, according to the quoted report.

 

Edit: Oh, and I hope you get better I am also sick at the moment. Flu season in Australia right?

 

Thanks but not flu, I have other health issues where this crappy weather we've be having here wipes me out LOL.

 

There was nothing there from RJ or BS about access to the TOG through TAR. He said a Dreamer couldn't get back, not couldn't get there. Found another RJ sneaky answer (early one) about the Finns just hanging Mat from the Ashanderai, there wasn't anything special about it. BS later changes that.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think God can be sneaky that's all.

 

And I only really look at quotes if a link is posted. Don't usually have as much time for this as I have had over the last few days because I've been sick and off work. I tend to get carried away when I'm on a roll and I'm not a patient person. If I think something is unjustified, I'll say so, vehemently. I can't help who I am but I thought I was mild in what I said earlier.

 

Well here is the link. I don't take offence at not trusting something without a link. After all, as I said in the other thread, I could make up anything and put it in quotes.

 

http://www.theorylan...ntvsresults.php (not sure if this works, sometimes it doesn't, if not, it is on the site under Finns, TAR, and such.

 

 

I agree that RJ can indeed be sneaky. I am not sure how it can be seen so in this case when he states right out "this cannot be done." However, you may be correct.

 

Again, this was not a personal attack on you, nor did I fail to realise the reasoning in what you said. I was simply pointing out that it was not the case, according to the quoted report.

 

Edit: Oh, and I hope you get better I am also sick at the moment. Flu season in Australia right?

 

Thanks but not flu, I have other health issues where this crappy weather we've be having here wipes me out LOL.

 

There was nothing there from RJ or BS about access to the TOG through TAR. He said a Dreamer couldn't get back, not couldn't get there. Found another RJ sneaky answer (early one) about the Finns just hanging Mat from the Ashanderai, there wasn't anything special about it. BS later changes that.

 

Not sure what you are referencing?

 

Searching under the tag finns, number 9.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 9th, 1996

ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)

 

ERICA SADUN

What was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Not traveling in time. The physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One [in Randland] is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is *REALLY* bad. You cannot go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

Perhaps you missed this one, or are talking about something else. It mentions nothing about Dreamers or anything. Just that you can't go to Finnland in TAR.

 

Re: Ashandarei, I don't know what the exact quote is, I didn't find any that said "There is nothing special about the Ashandarei.

 

This is the only one.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 20th, 2005

KOD Signing Report (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

I went to the signing tonight and asked the "Where did Mat's spear come from and what was its significance for him receiving it from the Finns? He received i) a way out ii) to be free from Aes Sedai, and iii) to have his memories filled" question. It's one I've been wondering for a while.

ROBERT JORDAN

RJ's answer was that the Finns just saw it as a way to kill Mat.

 

Here RJ didn't lie, he didn't say that there was nothing special about it, that this was the only reason they gave it to him. Not like the other quote, which was a direct "You cannot do ..."

 

But hey, no point in going any further, we have the quotes, how we interpret them is up to each person.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Vardar]

Lan = Ninja.

 

Lol. While I can see Lan being a Ninja, I cannot see him sneaking Moriane in with him and his Ninja skills. But still gave me a chuckle.

 

Everyone else got in thru windows right? although how the hell Rand squeezed in thru an arrow slit, when we all know he has broad shoulders is beyond me. Not to mention climbing what I always thought was a smooth surface. Honestly, the Stone doesn't seem like a very good fortress. I mean many people broke in the first time they saw the damn place, but that's neither here nor there.

 

And yet that is precisely what he did. You can chuckle at it all you want, it is still cannon. Lan found a way to sneak both himself and Moiraine in. Much like Rand, Mat and Juilin found a way in.

 

Aight, some clarity... firstly in researching i realised i misnamed Folded Light, Inverted Light. So... from there...

 

Folded Light = Making oneself invisible. Causes ripples with movement.

 

Illusion = What Moiraine, Alanna and the Salidar embassy did when they made themselves huge. It's basically taking their own image and blowing it up--it is a weak version of Mirror of Mists, much the same as Liandrin and Verin's compulsions are a mild version of true compulsion.

 

Mirror of Mists = Actually creating a fully distinct illusion. Note: in early drafts this was incorrectly called Mask of Mirrors.

 

But if you attach it to the floor, and walk behind it, is that rippling? If so, what was the point of doing their campsite like that, if it would make ripples. So Moraine had to know Mirror of Mists.

 

No. Again, Mirror of Mists is disguising oneself as someone else--like when Lanfear makes herself look like Keille.

 

Folded Light, making oneself invisible, is utterly distinct from Mirror of the Mists. And no, when Folded Light is anchored to the ground it makes them completely invisible, irrespective of movement, no ripples. It is only if the weaving moves that the ripple occurs.

 

I wasn't laughing at your assertion, I was laughing at Lan=Ninja. It's hilarious.

 

That being said, if that's the case, which you said yourself, then it's possible she anchored it to the ground and walked behind it. (I think I was just tossing out ideas of how it could have occured, we have no actual canon on what happened, he just said he would find a way, his way could have been using Moriane).

[Lisa Campbell]

Sorry Barid after hardly any sleep and reading the prophecies first I missed that last few words in the quote about TOG and TAR. My bad, I thought I'd done good there, bugger. I latched on to the other interview to which the question was: if a Dreamer found herself in TOG, could she access TAR? (paraphrashing) Answer: no.

 

And I totally stuffed my paraphrasing of the Ashanderai one, I meant what you said but it is still a sneaky answer.

 

I'm not knockin' them, if I even had an atom's worth of their talent I'd lie, mislead, sabotage forums, whatever it took to keep my secrets until the book was out.

 

Have they ever slipped up and given anything away?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Haha, no problem. I was just unsure what you meant. I am not saying you are wrong either, just that I don;t recall it happening.

 

Brandon has admitted he slipped up and gave something away, then tried to backtrack on it to cover it up. Not sure what that was refering to exactly.

 

However, if this isn't what he meant, it is another time he slipped up and revealed Slayer wasn't going to be killed in Towers of Midnight.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 27th, 2009

TGS Midnight Release - Matt Hatch (Verbatim)

 

QUESTION

Slayer, is he going to be in the thirteen or fourteenth book?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

He has a role to play in both, you will see him in both, probably. Unless you know he dies in the thirteenth, because he very well might. So, he has a role to play, yet.

 

I found it amusing

[Vardar]

I have a question, that I've never seenbut this thread is 300 pages long now...

 

Why did Lan's warder bond snap? We know she wasn't dead, so what happened? Is there an RJ quote about that one?

[Sid]

RJ would never answer due to spoilers, but Sanderson did later:

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

 

Reddit AMA (Verbatim)

Terez

 

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

 

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

[Vardar]

RJ would never answer due to spoilers, but Sanderson did later:

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

 

Reddit AMA (Verbatim)

Terez

 

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

 

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

 

That was my initilal thought, but she went there once before, and it didn't sever.

[Suttree]

RJ would never answer due to spoilers, but Sanderson did later:

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

 

Reddit AMA (Verbatim)

Terez

 

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

 

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

 

That was my initilal thought, but she went there once before, and it didn't sever.

 

The severing of the link between worlds happened when the gateway melted.

[Vardar]

RJ would never answer due to spoilers, but Sanderson did later:

 

Interview: Aug 31st, 2011

 

Reddit AMA (Verbatim)

Terez

 

Why did Moiraine's bond with Lan break when the doorway burned? Did she intentionally release it?

Brandon Sanderson

 

She did not intentionally release it. RJ has something about this in the notes, but I don't have the quote handy. It basically has to do with the severing of the link between worlds.

 

That was my initilal thought, but she went there once before, and it didn't sever.

 

The severing of the link between worlds happened when the gateway melted.

 

Eh.

 

I'll accept it, although I don't like it. But thanks.

[Sid]

The severing of the link between worlds happened when the gateway melted.

 

I've thought that ever since I read the passage in the first place (after the initial shock of what I just read wore off anyway). I'm kind of surprised with how many people wouldn't accept that idea over the years.

[Thrasymachus]

Well, for one thing, severing the Rhuidean redstone doorway didn't sever the link between Randland and Finnland, there was still the link from Tear's redstone doorway and from the Tower of Ghengi. However, this apparent contradiction can be explained away by requiring the link between worlds provided by the doorways and the Tower to be "active" or "open," and that in the case of the doorways, the link is open when someone passes through the doorways, and closes again when they leave. An interesting experiment would be to have a bonded Aes Sedai enter through the Tower, and allow the doorway they create to close, keeping her warder on this side, and see if the bond is severed.

[shortkut]

Well, for one thing, severing the Rhuidean redstone doorway didn't sever the link between Randland and Finnland, there was still the link from Tear's redstone doorway and from the Tower of Ghengi. However, this apparent contradiction can be explained away by requiring the link between worlds provided by the doorways and the Tower to be "active" or "open," and that in the case of the doorways, the link is open when someone passes through the doorways, and closes again when they leave. An interesting experiment would be to have a bonded Aes Sedai enter through the Tower, and allow the doorway they create to close, keeping her warder on this side, and see if the bond is severed.

one door takes you to the snakes and the other takes you to the foxes. Different connections

[mike hunt's here]

If this was already answered - can you cut and paste it here? Too many posts to look for it...

 

1. If LTT is in Rand's head - who is in Taim's and Logain?

2. What would happen if someone opened a gateway into the world of dreams and had birgitte enter it "in the flesh?" I'm assuming once she is in there, she would have the same abilities, but would she be the same person?

[Suttree]

If this was already answered - can you cut and paste it here? Too many posts to look for it...

 

1. If LTT is in Rand's head - who is in Taim's and Logain?

2. What would happen if someone opened a gateway into the world of dreams and had birgitte enter it "in the flesh?" I'm assuming once she is in there, she would have the same abilities, but would she be the same person?

 

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been. The prevailing theory is the personality was a construct Rand made to deal with the memories. One interesting thing that people seem to forget with Zen Rand is that there is till that pesky link with Moridin deal with. I am always somewhat surprised no one worries about that. Taim and Logain have no memory seepage that we know of and neither seem to be showing symptoms of the taint.

 

2. Not sure what would happen but yes she would be the same person as she was ripped of Tar in that form and not reborn in the normal manner.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Suttree

[Luckers]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

Edited July 28, 2012 by Luckers
edited to add a sentence on the second paragraph

[Suttree]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

I was waiting to see how long it would take you to jump in...

[FanoLan]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

Just because LTT said remembered(?) she rarely lied, I for one, will not automaticallu believe her every word. "Rarely" leaves a good bit of wiggle room in the Last Days. Plus, who knows how far to credit LTT's commentary re: the character of the people around Rand? LTT was kind of correct about Verin, but not really accurate about Cads at all. And talk about missing the boat on Weiramon...bad, bad, bad; though fortunately not a fatal mistake.

[Sharaman]

Also by Semi's own admission, she's not the expert. Graendal is.

[Luckers]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

Just because LTT said remembered(?) she rarely lied, I for one, will not automaticallu believe her every word. "Rarely" leaves a good bit of wiggle room in the Last Days. Plus, who knows how far to credit LTT's commentary re: the character of the people around Rand? LTT was kind of correct about Verin, but not really accurate about Cads at all. And talk about missing the boat on Weiramon...bad, bad, bad; though fortunately not a fatal mistake.

 

Except every verifiable part of her comment proved to be true--including things she could have no way of knowing absent an abstract scientific understanding of people with Rand's condition [as she stated was provided by Graendal]. Which means that if she lied, she did so with magical specificity. And hey, who knows, maybe Semirhage did have some sort of Talent for knowing what other people can confirm, and that this is the reason Lews Therin thinks she lies rarely... because her Talent keeps her from being caught out.

 

Or, you know, she told the truth.

[FanoLan]

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

Just because LTT said remembered(?) she rarely lied, I for one, will not automaticallu believe her every word. "Rarely" leaves a good bit of wiggle room in the Last Days. Plus, who knows how far to credit LTT's commentary re: the character of the people around Rand? LTT was kind of correct about Verin, but not really accurate about Cads at all. And talk about missing the boat on Weiramon...bad, bad, bad; though fortunately not a fatal mistake.

 

Except every verifiable part of her comment proved to be true--including things she could have no way of knowing absent an abstract scientific understanding of people with Rand's condition [as she stated was provided by Graendal]. Which means that if she lied, she did so with magical specificity. And hey, who knows, maybe Semirhage did have some sort of Talent for knowing what other people can confirm, and that this is the reason Lews Therin thinks she lies rarely... because her Talent keeps her from being caught out.

 

Or, you know, she told the truth.

 

One of Semi, Mesaana, Dem surely has access to information about Rand from one of the DFs that have been close to him. The visible manifestations of his increasing madness had to have been noticeable to even the most casual observer. The readers have the benefit of Rand's PoV of course, but other characters would see his increasing tendency to mutter to himself. Everyone in the WoT knows men who channel go mad so spies would be looking for the signs. If you believe the DO's ultimate victory could only come after turning the DR, Rand's mental health would have been one of his primary concerns and any signs of weakness would have been strenuously sought.

 

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means. Without the decent into madness, Rand would never have thought he heard a voice. "Reintegration" would never have been necessary because the disintegration would not have occurred. LTT's memories and personality would have been a welcomed part of RaT from the start. The ta'ver'en, the most important one produced in the Third Age in order to ensure the continuity of the Wheel of Time, would not have been gestated with an inherent design flaw. Absent the taint (direct intervention by the DO) Rand Therin would have emerged earlier and with much less of a chance of the DO's victory.

[Luckers]

One of Semi, Mesaana, Dem surely has access to information about Rand from one of the DFs that have been close to him. The visible manifestations of his increasing madness had to have been noticeable to even the most casual observer. The readers have the benefit of Rand's PoV of course, but other characters would see his increasing tendency to mutter to himself. Everyone in the WoT knows men who channel go mad so spies would be looking for the signs. If you believe the DO's ultimate victory could only come after turning the DR, Rand's mental health would have been one of his primary concerns and any signs of weakness would have been strenuously sought.

 

None of which explains Semirhage's specific knowledge. Only the abstract knowledge provided by Graendal of others with Rand's condition could have provided that.

 

 

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means. Without the decent into madness, Rand would never have thought he heard a voice. "Reintegration" would never have been necessary because the disintegration would not have occurred. LTT's memories and personality would have been a welcomed part of RaT from the start. The ta'ver'en, the most important one produced in the Third Age in order to ensure the continuity of the Wheel of Time, would not have been gestated with an inherent design flaw. Absent the taint (direct intervention by the DO) Rand Therin would have emerged earlier and with much less of a chance of the DO's victory.

 

Actually, you got that backward. Without the taint Rand would not have heard Lews Therin's voice. Without the manifestation of Lews Therin Rand would not have needed reintegration.

 

That being said, any instance where Rand faced the voice would have resulted in both disintegration and the need for reintegration. There is not situation in which the manifestation of Lews Therin would be welcomed without the resultant potential decent into madness.

[Knivy]

Without the taint's madness, would Rand have been able to cope with another man suddenly appearing in his head? I believe the taint shielded him from even greater madness.