Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Terez]

RJ has said that the Creator is completely removed, takes no part whatsoever, all kinds of wording that make it clear it's not the Creator. Clear to me, anyway. Obviously people will argue about anything.

[Vardar]

At the end of Eye of the World Rand hears a voice that yells "IT IS NOT HERE" and "I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ON CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" "NOT HERE"

 

What was that? Or who? Was it ever touched upon again? Odd that I never noticed that (Just started another reread)

Unknown. Most common speculation is that it's the Creator.

That seems an awful lot like taking part. (Telling someone they have to do it on their own).

 

No questions were ever asked of it at any RJ event?

It was asked. It was RAFOed. And telling people that you're not taking part is taking part now?

 

Telling someone that you won't help and they have to do it themselves, yea that's taking part. If the voice had never spoken, would Rand had acted? Kinda huge if it is the Creator.

[yoniy0]

Yes, and then there's the issue of Rand knowing where to Skim, even if we accept that it indeed was Rand who made that Gateway. Since this comes up every now and then, and since no one saw fit to cover all of our bases, let me just throw this out there: we've seen only one other entity speak with ALL CAPS: the DO. We've reason to believe Moridin can hear the DO even outside the Pit of Doom, if much further in the story. How Rand might do the same, even before his link to Moridin, is a difficult question (the only possibility I can come up with is, as Moiraine said, that each time you let the DO touch you makes the next touching easier. Having Ishamael in his dreams for a long time might've done the trick -- indeed it was too late for Moiraine to expel him by the time she found out, in Caemlyn).

 

Eww, I just had a horrible thought. Does anyone think the Ba'alzamon dreams are a tribute to Eddings?

[Vardar]

Yes, and then there's the issue of Rand knowing where to Skim, even if we accept that it indeed was Rand who made that Gateway. Since this comes up every now and then, and since no one saw fit to cover all of our bases, let me just throw this out there: we've seen only one other entity speak with ALL CAPS: the DO. We've reason to believe Moridin can hear the DO even outside the Pit of Doom, if much further in the story. How Rand might do the same, even before his link to Moridin, is a difficult question (the only possibility I can come up with is, as Moiraine said, that each time you let the DO touch you makes the next touching easier. Having Ishamael in his dreams for a long time might've done the trick -- indeed it was too late for Moiraine to expel him by the time she found out, in Caemlyn).

 

Eww, I just had a horrible thought. Does anyone think the Ba'alzamon dreams are a tribute to Eddings?

 

Is that what he did? Skimming? I never understood how he appeared there and went back.

[mb]

why did the eelfinns took Mat's eye?

Mat told them that he would pay and told them that the price was to be half the light of the world.

half world's light was interpreted as half of Mat's eyesight.

[Vardar]

why did the eelfinns took Mat's eye?

Mat told them that he would pay and told them that the price was to be half the light of the world.

half world's light was interpreted as half of Mat's eyesight.

 

Pretty much that, they savor the pain it caused him, both physical and emotional.

[Mr Ares]

At the end of Eye of the World Rand hears a voice that yells "IT IS NOT HERE" and "I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ON CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL" "NOT HERE"

 

What was that? Or who? Was it ever touched upon again? Odd that I never noticed that (Just started another reread)

Unknown. Most common speculation is that it's the Creator.

That seems an awful lot like taking part. (Telling someone they have to do it on their own).

 

No questions were ever asked of it at any RJ event?

It was asked. It was RAFOed. And telling people that you're not taking part is taking part now?

 

Telling someone that you won't help and they have to do it themselves, yea that's taking part. If the voice had never spoken, would Rand had acted? Kinda huge if it is the Creator.

I'd say that is a highly singular view on what constitutes taking part. (How different school sports days would have been if the mere declaration that I wouldn't take part was enough to constitute my taking part.) If the voice hadn't spoken, Rand would have acted. He wasn't inclined to sit around waiting for divine intervention before, I don't see why he would be now.

 

Yes, and then there's the issue of Rand knowing where to Skim, even if we accept that it indeed was Rand who made that Gateway. Since this comes up every now and then, and since no one saw fit to cover all of our bases, let me just throw this out there: we've seen only one other entity speak with ALL CAPS: the DO. We've reason to believe Moridin can hear the DO even outside the Pit of Doom, if much further in the story. How Rand might do the same, even before his link to Moridin, is a difficult question (the only possibility I can come up with is, as Moiraine said, that each time you let the DO touch you makes the next touching easier. Having Ishamael in his dreams for a long time might've done the trick -- indeed it was too late for Moiraine to expel him by the time she found out, in Caemlyn).

Of course, the problem with it being Shai'tan is that He very much does take a part in proceedings, at least at other points in the series. If He was able to act here, why would He be reluctant to do so? Whereas not taking part does fit with the Creator's M.O.

[Terez]

Interview: Jan 18th, 2003

Crossroads of Twilight Signing Report—Tallis (Paraphrased)

Robert Jordan

Rand has no direct connection with the Creator. The Creator is completely removed from the world; aside from...creating...the Pattern, he does nothing else whatsoever to influence anything.

Tallis

I'm uncertain how this fits with the ending of The Eye of the World.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Grinding my teeth through TGS, again:

 

When Rand reveals to Cadsuane the bracelets from the now defunct male a'dam:

 

1.) At that point we know that using the TP, Rand broke apart/destroyed the necklace element - The male a'dam can be vaped by the TP.

 

2.) He then used TP Balefire on Semi & Elza

 

...But the bracelets aren't affected, and are around to be showcased to Cads? Yet, none of their (S & E's) clothing, or other adornments are noted to remain.

 

 

YYYYYYYyyeeahhhh... .. .what?

Edited July 14, 2012 by Mat's Spare Hat

[Terez]

Probably something to do with the balefire not touching the bracelets directly. There's Brandon's force-to-spread thing, but maybe it's different with cuendillar.

[Mats Spare Hat]

*sound of flushing toilet

 

So the entire male a'dam wouldn't be cuendillar then, considering the necklace was destroyed - but not by balefire.

 

However if in the case the entire a'dam were cuendillar, it makes the case that TP can destroy cuendillar...

 

But TP balefire can't do the same, when the cuendillar in question is against the skin of someone just balefired, yet everything else they were wearing is vaped along with them - and not by like a hair of balefire, a bar of it burst from rand's hand *glances at area/diameter of own palm, i think the wording was similar to that?

 

Then again it makes Nynaeve, et al, look pretty dumb, if only the bracelets were cuendillar, and she could have destroyed the necklace, back in the day, when it was all sitting nice and neat in front of her.

 

Go figure, chalk it up as an eyeroller.

[Vardar]

I'd say that is a highly singular view on what constitutes taking part. (How different school sports days would have been if the mere declaration that I wouldn't take part was enough to constitute my taking part.) If the voice hadn't spoken, Rand would have acted. He wasn't inclined to sit around waiting for divine intervention before, I don't see why he would be now.

 

Not really. Imagine if you said you wouldn't take part in a battle, which happened to be a surprise battle. But you informed the foes that the battle was coming. wouldn't that be taking part? I would count it as so. Rand was reaching out, confused, worried, and something spoke to him and informed him that he HAD to act. How is that not taking part? We don't know if Rand would have acted on his own. (And we'll never know), but think of other beings in different stories who only create then watch. Once they speak to their creations, they're considered no longer just watching. (Comic book Watcher is a great example)

 

And thanks for the quote Terez. Yes it is confusing.

[mb]

Actually, the voice did not tell Rand that he had to act. The exact worlds were "only the chosen one can do what must be done, if he will."

no longer just watching; to me, only commands would fit that. And there were no commands during any part of the conversation.

 

When the voice told that it will take no part, perhaps it meant no physical part.

[yoniy0]

(a) TP can destroy Cuendillar. That's exactly where we learn of it, Mat's, but to ease your mind, it's since been confirmed by Team Jordan.

(b) Regarding the DO and not taking part, Ares, what ever makes you think we should take the VOICE at its word?

Edited July 15, 2012 by yoniy0

[Knivy]

*sound of flushing toilet

 

So the entire male a'dam wouldn't be cuendillar then, considering the necklace was destroyed - but not by balefire.

 

However if in the case the entire a'dam were cuendillar, it makes the case that TP can destroy cuendillar...

 

But TP balefire can't do the same, when the cuendillar in question is against the skin of someone just balefired, yet everything else they were wearing is vaped along with them - and not by like a hair of balefire, a bar of it burst from rand's hand *glances at area/diameter of own palm, i think the wording was similar to that?

 

Then again it makes Nynaeve, et al, look pretty dumb, if only the bracelets were cuendillar, and she could have destroyed the necklace, back in the day, when it was all sitting nice and neat in front of her.

 

Go figure, chalk it up as an eyeroller.

1) Im sure Rand attacked what was binding him, the neck was destroyed. He did not directly attack the bracelets, but their bearers, so the bracelets were unharmed.

 

2) Even if it wasnt Cuen, Ter' angreal are notoriously hard to destroy, so the wondergirls not destroying it is perfectly reasonable.

[Luckers]

Well, the one used on Rand may not have been the original in any case, and thus may not have been cuendillar, but that still leaves some questions open.

[Mr Ares]

I'd say that is a highly singular view on what constitutes taking part. (How different school sports days would have been if the mere declaration that I wouldn't take part was enough to constitute my taking part.) If the voice hadn't spoken, Rand would have acted. He wasn't inclined to sit around waiting for divine intervention before, I don't see why he would be now.

 

Not really. Imagine if you said you wouldn't take part in a battle, which happened to be a surprise battle. But you informed the foes that the battle was coming. wouldn't that be taking part? I would count it as so. Rand was reaching out, confused, worried, and something spoke to him and informed him that he HAD to act. How is that not taking part? We don't know if Rand would have acted on his own. (And we'll never know), but think of other beings in different stories who only create then watch. Once they speak to their creations, they're considered no longer just watching. (Comic book Watcher is a great example)

If your foes were already in the middle of the battle, which Rand was, then saying "guys, I'm not going to help you, you have to win this fight by yourselves" does not constitute taking part. And Rand does not typically stand around waiting for someone to rescue him. He had acted to that point, why would you think he would stop doing so? And Terez's quote is, of course, not incompatible with the voice being the Creator.

 

(b) Regarding the DO and not taking part, Ares, what ever makes you think we should take the VOICE at its word?

Well, that makes things so much clearer. The voice declares it will not take part for absolutely no reason. What on earth makes you think we should not take the voice at its word?

[yoniy0]

Well, that makes things so much clearer. The voice declares it will not take part for absolutely no reason. What on earth makes you think we should not take the voice at its word?

Because, if it was the DO, it would want to appear aloof and benevolent, rather than tip his hand (can you think how Rand would've reacted to the DO revealing (a) that it's not Ishamael, and (b) that its hope is to fool Rand into serving it?). The VOICE wishes Rand to try his hand, to perform on his own. That doesn't change, depending on whether it was the Creator or the DO.

[Knivy]

Okay, a new(maybe) question. The Old Tongue, when did it go out of style, and how did it happen that it developed into the same language across oceans and mountain ranges.

 

EDIT: I am assuming that it was the commonly spoken language sometime within this age.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Knivy

[Suttree]

Okay, a new(maybe) question. The Old Tongue, when did it go out of style, and how did it happen that it developed into the same language across oceans and mountain ranges.

 

EDIT: I am assuming that it was the commonly spoken language sometime within this age.

 

This touches on your question...

 

Mark Ferguson from Edmonton, Alberta

 

My question is when was the transition period between the Old Tongue and the new tongue? I assumed it was after the Breaking, but many of Mat's memories still have the Old Tongue in them, and they were long after. When was the change, and what caused it?

 

Robert Jordan

 

I have gone into this in some depth in other places, but basically after the Breaking, the primary language was still what is called the Old Tongue. In the period between the Breaking and the Trolloc Wars, what would become the language spoken today began to develop as a common or vulgar tongue. During the period between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years, that vulgar tongue supplanted the Old Tongue as the usual or everyday mode of speech, and the Old Tongue regressed to being more and more something of scholars. At the time of Artur Hawkwing, anyone who was educated, whether noble or commoner, could speak and write the Old Tongue, but in everyday life, most people used something very much like what is spoken today. And it was the simple swamp.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Suttree

[Knivy]

Okay. I guess id need to find out what Shara spoke, and if the lands beyond the ocean spoke different languages before I call the Language the single worst part of the world.

 

I mean, if a language like latin can develop into 3 distinct languages (French, Italian, and Spanish), in extreme proximity to each other. then the old tongue should have developed into several different languages given the extreme isolation of some groups.

[shortkut]

In the world of WoT they developed really heavy accents that make it hard to understand each other. That is close enough to new languages without needing books devoted to people learning languages. I know some people love RJ's descriptions but wanting that is as rediculous as complaining that a world that revolves around magic, alternate worlds, and rebirth does not follow every law of physics that we have.

[Vardar]

Domon had an Angreal. TGH, Chpt 9, Leavetakings:

 

“A small age dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword. The man who sold it claimed if you held it long enough you started to feel warm.”

 

What happened to it? Was it ever mentioned again?

[Vardar]

If your foes were already in the middle of the battle, which Rand was, then saying "guys, I'm not going to help you, you have to win this fight by yourselves" does not constitute taking part. And Rand does not typically stand around waiting for someone to rescue him. He had acted to that point, why would you think he would stop doing so? And Terez's quote is, of course, not incompatible with the voice being the Creator.

 

But Rand did not really do anything until after the voice spoke. Then he went at it in earnest. No he doesn't stand around, but he wsa so against chanelling, who knows what may have happened. My point was the voices actions obviously potentionally had a huge influence, and for something that will take no action, that's a huge action.

 

 

Okay. I guess id need to find out what Shara spoke, and if the lands beyond the ocean spoke different languages before I call the Language the single worst part of the world.

 

Didn't Thom mention that the people over there pretended not to understand their language, implying theirs was pretty different.

[Mr Ares]

Well, that makes things so much clearer. The voice declares it will not take part for absolutely no reason. What on earth makes you think we should not take the voice at its word?

Because, if it was the DO, it would want to appear aloof and benevolent, rather than tip his hand (can you think how Rand would've reacted to the DO revealing (a) that it's not Ishamael, and (b) that its hope is to fool Rand into serving it?). The VOICE wishes Rand to try his hand, to perform on his own. That doesn't change, depending on whether it was the Creator or the DO.

But why did it speak at all, if it was Shai'tan? Rand was going to act on his own regardless of the voice. The voice changed nothing. So why would Shai'tan speak to Rand to say that he wasn't going to do anything when no-one expected Him to do anything anyway? I can understand Shai'tan not wanting to reveal Himself, but He would not have been revealed had He just stayed quiet. Speaking doesn't really benefit the Shadow.