Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Maleshub]

We know for a fact that "steel" has been discovered in Randland. Perrin works steel; and Tairan steel is considered the best in Randland. The question(s):

- Is steel used in making cannons? And is it better than bronze?

- Why didn't Aludra make her Dragons from steel?

 

Some thoughts on metallurgy..

 

About making cannons. The quickest way is to cast them by pouring molten metal into a mould. You could start with a solid cylinder and bore a hole in it but that takes time and energy, especially if the metal is hard.

 

Bronze can be cast readily, and is strong enough to handle the explosive forces in a cannon, though it can be brittle. Steel is a problem. The word covers iron/carbon mixtures with varying proportions of carbon. The more carbon, the more brittle the metal, and it's not usually called steel. The basic form produced by heating iron oxide ore with coke (pure form of coal) to remove the oxygen leaves a metal with a lot of carbon, at least 2%. It can be cast easily, hence it is called cast iron, but it is very brittle indeed and a cast iron cannon would shatter with unfortunate results. Reducing the amount of carbon (by blowing air through the molten metal in a blast furnace) produces a stronger alloy, steel, but it is much more difficult to cast. You could build a cannon out of steel with more sophisticated manufacturiung methods, but I don't think Randland is quite up to that level yet.

Bronze is a much more easily and widely assimilated technology - all it takes is copper, tin and charcoal.Historically bronze was around for millennia pretty much before steel. I'm guessing Aludra can't get steelmakers in the kind of quantity/ quality she requires whereas she knows she can get bronze and it serves her purpose.

 

Thanks for the responses and information

[TristanWebb]

Quick manufacture is required as well, since she is already in a war. Using people already trained in casting metal is the best way to do this so bellfounders using bronze was probably a big factor in her manufacturing plan to have them ready to fight the Seanchan.

[Maleshub]

Quick manufacture is required as well, since she is already in a war. Using people already trained in casting metal is the best way to do this so bellfounders using bronze was probably a big factor in her manufacturing plan to have them ready to fight the Seanchan.

 

True! I was under the misguided impression that Randland technology was advanced enough to allow "battle grade" steel cannons.

[Vardar]

On LoC in my pre-aMoL reread of the series. Taim mentions that he has been in the blight before. How normal is it for a Saldean to have been in the blight? Probably pretty normal for soldiers, but I don't think Taim was a soldier prior to being a false dragon. Why didn't Rand question this? Was he just distracted by LTT's voice telling him to kill Taim?

 

Umm...

 

What quote was that, or book. I don't remember ever hearing of what he did before he announce hisself.

 

There are a few posibilities, perhaps when he declared himself, he made a show of beating back a blight charge to gain more support. He had a decent following right?

[FarShainMael]

Quick manufacture is required as well, since she is already in a war. Using people already trained in casting metal is the best way to do this so bellfounders using bronze was probably a big factor in her manufacturing plan to have them ready to fight the Seanchan.

 

True! I was under the misguided impression that Randland technology was advanced enough to allow "battle grade" steel cannons.

 

There are a few references to swords breaking (TSR10, TPoD22) - Manetheren was called 'the sword that cannot be broken', but was shattered in the end (EotW9). So it's something that Randlanders are used to happening. Steel that will break in swordfighting won't stand up to cannon firing.

[Lisa Campbell]

I've seen it mentioned on the boards the dustjacket with blurb on it. Can anyone supply a link please?

[Zewe]

Is there a TAR equivalent or some sort of thing for Finnland?

[Lisa Campbell]

Yeah Slayer enters it ( Tower of Genji) or seems to when Perrin chases him in the Two Rivers and Birgitte tells him not to enter. So it is physically the to see and touch, and Birgitte thinks he could enter it.

Edited July 26, 2012 by YouMayCallMeElci

[Zewe]

Oh yeah, completely forgot about that scene somehow.

Didn't Birgitte say something along the lines of like "What lies within is assuredly fatal in TAR and only slightly less so in the waking world"? Waiting for my new Kindle charger to arrive, so I can't look up the exact quote, but I'm reasonably confident that was the gist of it.

Do we have any word on why that is, exactly?

The Finns interest me so much.

[Thorum]

Another question: how did Moiraine enter the Stone at the end of Dragon Reborn (when it was still taken by Be'lal)?

[Vardar]

Oh yeah, completely forgot about that scene somehow.

Didn't Birgitte say something along the lines of like "What lies within is assuredly fatal in TAR and only slightly less so in the waking world"? Waiting for my new Kindle charger to arrive, so I can't look up the exact quote, but I'm reasonably confident that was the gist of it.

Do we have any word on why that is, exactly?

The Finns interest me so much.

 

I thought she just told him to stay away from there. What book was it, I may be able to look it up on my Ipad.

 

Another question: how did Moiraine enter the Stone at the end of Dragon Reborn (when it was still taken by Be'lal)?

 

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

[Luckers]

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

 

No, she did not. Lan got her in, using his super ninja skills.

[Lisa Campbell]

Love Supa Ninja Lan moniker Luckers. Do you have that link I was after for the dustjacket with blurb please? I searched here and Tor but couldn't find it.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah Slayer enters it ( Tower of Genji) or seems to when Perrin chases him in the Two Rivers and Birgitte tells him not to enter. So it is physically the to see and touch, and Birgitte thinks he could enter it.

 

This is actually not true.

 

Birgitte was talking about the Tower of Genjei. It is unsure if she actually means in the dream, or just in general. Birgitte warns anyone to avoid the Genjei altogether, not just in TAR.

 

However, no matter what Birigitte thinks, it is impossible.

 

There may be some kind of Finn version of TAR, even connected in some way to the TAR we know, but you cannot enter the finn world through TAR that we know of, and slayer did not enter the ToG in that instance, he either stepped out of the dream, or shifted to another location.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 9th, 1996

ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)

 

ERICA SADUN

What was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Not traveling in time. The physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One [in Randland] is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is *REALLY* bad. You cannot go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

Edited July 26, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Vardar]

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

 

No, she did not. Lan got her in, using his super ninja skills.

 

She did Mirror of Mists on their campsites quite a few times. OR is that not Mirror of Mists?

[Lisa Campbell]

Well it's there and you can see and touch it in TAR, there's no fog that you can't enter like Rhuidean which is the only example we've seen so far unless you envision it like the effects of the Dreamspike which Perrin and the wolves prove you can pass through the barrier. We haven't actually seen an attempt rebuffed in story, just Hopper's and Birgitte's warning not to enter. Do you think they were wrong?

 

I did say that Slayer "enters or seems to enter TOG". Call me a fence sitter if you want but when I can't definitively decide on one option, I offer both or more that I find plausible so that I can find out others' opinions and stand corrected if called for.

[Luckers]

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

 

No, she did not. Lan got her in, using his super ninja skills.

 

She did Mirror of Mists on their campsites quite a few times. OR is that not Mirror of Mists?

 

Nah, that's Inverted Light. :)

[Vardar]

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

 

No, she did not. Lan got her in, using his super ninja skills.

 

She did Mirror of Mists on their campsites quite a few times. OR is that not Mirror of Mists?

 

Nah, that's Inverted Light. :)

 

Are you being sarcastic or serious?

 

If so, what's the difference? Wouldn't either work? Lan's ninja skills aren't that good!

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well it's there and you can see and touch it in TAR, there's no fog that you can't enter like Rhuidean which is the only example we've seen so far unless you envision it like the effects of the Dreamspike which Perrin and the wolves prove you can pass through the barrier. We haven't actually seen an attempt rebuffed in story, just Hopper's and Birgitte's warning not to enter. Do you think they were wrong?

 

I did say that Slayer "enters or seems to enter TOG". Call me a fence sitter if you want but when I can't definitively decide on one option, I offer both or more that I find plausible so that I can find out others' opinions and stand corrected if called for.

 

I am not sure what your point is here? I wasn't trying to discredit you.

 

RJ said you cannot enter via Tel'aran'rhoid.

 

I know you said that it seemed to be so, and all I did was say that this wasn't the case.

 

And yes, if that means I think Birigitte and Hopper are wrong, yes, they are. There has been no rebuff in the story, but that doesn't matter. RJ has said it was so.

 

Unless it is suggested that RJ somehow made a mistake here, or that he lied, it is fact. And unless we get Team Jordan saying that this was a mistake, there is no reason to doubt his word.

 

As I said, the properties of Finns and TAR are unclear as of yet, however, you can't enter Finnland via ToG. If Verin is correct, then Finnland is indeed in some way connected to TAR, or have their own version of TAR.

 

I was simply pointing out that Slayer didn't go there in TAR, nor can it be done.

 

 

Are you being sarcastic or serious?

 

If so, what's the difference? Wouldn't either work? Lan's ninja skills aren't that good!

 

To the MoM - Inverted Light.

 

I would say that they are different things. However, WoT Wiki apparently says they are variations of the Mirror of Mists.

 

There is no evidence in the book that says this is MoM, however, so I don't know.

 

Apparently Mirror of Mists is a technique used to change the appearance of the body.

 

If this is so, then regardless of the Inverting Light, Moiraine did indeed know it. She uses it at Baerlon where she makes herself look taller and walk over the wall.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Luckers]

I don't think they explain it, but she knew Mirror of Mists right.

 

No, she did not. Lan got her in, using his super ninja skills.

 

She did Mirror of Mists on their campsites quite a few times. OR is that not Mirror of Mists?

 

Nah, that's Inverted Light. :)

 

Are you being sarcastic or serious?

 

If so, what's the difference? Wouldn't either work? Lan's ninja skills aren't that good!

 

Serious. Mirror of Mists is creating disguises. Inverted Light is making oneself invisible.

 

I do see what you are suggesting now, though. You think she made them invisible and they entered the Stone under that guise... but again, no. Lan's ninja skills were that good (for that matter Rand, Mat and Juilin all manage it also). But quotage...

 

Perrin shook his head. She must be crazy. I could wish I were not one of this party. I could wish I were back home working Master Luhhan’s forge. Aloud, he said, “If he is inside the Stone, if he is waiting there for Rand, we must go inside to reach him. How do we do that? Everyone keeps saying no one enters the Stone without the permission of the High Lords, and looking at it, I don’t see any way but through the gates.”

 

“You do not go in,” Lan said. “Moiraine and I will be the only ones to enter. The more who go, the harder it will be. Whatever way in I find, I cannot believe it will be easy even for only two.”

 

Lan = Ninja.

[Vardar]

To the MoM - Inverted Light.

 

I would say that they are different things. However, WoT Wiki apparently says they are variations of the Mirror of Mists.

 

There is no evidence in the book that says this is MoM, however, so I don't know.

 

Apparently Mirror of Mists is a technique used to change the appearance of the body.

 

If this is so, then regardless of the Inverting Light, Moiraine did indeed know it. She uses it at Baerlon where she makes herself look taller and walk over the wall.

 

And I thought Rand referred to what he did wiht Eggy in the throne room to hide from the AS as Mirror of Mists.

[Thorum]

That just proves she already had an idea on how to accomplish the goal before trying, not how she did it.

 

btw, accoring to the encyclopaedia wot, mirror of mists can also make oneself invisible.

[Luckers]

To the MoM - Inverted Light.

 

I would say that they are different things. However, WoT Wiki apparently says they are variations of the Mirror of Mists.

 

There is no evidence in the book that says this is MoM, however, so I don't know.

 

Apparently Mirror of Mists is a technique used to change the appearance of the body.

 

If this is so, then regardless of the Inverting Light, Moiraine did indeed know it. She uses it at Baerlon where she makes herself look taller and walk over the wall.

 

Aight, some clarity... firstly in researching i realised i misnamed Folded Light, Inverted Light. So... from there...

 

Folded Light = Making oneself invisible. Causes ripples with movement.

 

Illusion = What Moiraine, Alanna and the Salidar embassy did when they made themselves huge. It's basically taking their own image and blowing it up--it is a weak version of Mirror of Mists, much the same as Liandrin and Verin's compulsions are a mild version of true compulsion.

 

Mirror of Mists = Actually creating a fully distinct illusion. Note: in early drafts this was incorrectly called Mask of Mirrors.

[Vardar]

Lan = Ninja.

 

Lol. While I can see Lan being a Ninja, I cannot see him sneaking Moriane in with him and his Ninja skills. But still gave me a chuckle.

 

Everyone else got in thru windows right? although how the hell Rand squeezed in thru an arrow slit, when we all know he has broad shoulders is beyond me. Not to mention climbing what I always thought was a smooth surface. Honestly, the Stone doesn't seem like a very good fortress. I mean many people broke in the first time they saw the damn place, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Aight, some clarity... firstly in researching i realised i misnamed Folded Light, Inverted Light. So... from there...

 

Folded Light = Making oneself invisible. Causes ripples with movement.

 

Illusion = What Moiraine, Alanna and the Salidar embassy did when they made themselves huge. It's basically taking their own image and blowing it up--it is a weak version of Mirror of Mists, much the same as Liandrin and Verin's compulsions are a mild version of true compulsion.

 

Mirror of Mists = Actually creating a fully distinct illusion. Note: in early drafts this was incorrectly called Mask of Mirrors.

 

But if you attach it to the floor, and walk behind it, is that rippling? If so, what was the point of doing their campsite like that, if it would make ripples. So Moraine had to know Mirror of Mists.

[Lisa Campbell]

Well it's there and you can see and touch it in TAR, there's no fog that you can't enter like Rhuidean which is the only example we've seen so far unless you envision it like the effects of the Dreamspike which Perrin and the wolves prove you can pass through the barrier. We haven't actually seen an attempt rebuffed in story, just Hopper's and Birgitte's warning not to enter. Do you think they were wrong?

 

I did say that Slayer "enters or seems to enter TOG". Call me a fence sitter if you want but when I can't definitively decide on one option, I offer both or more that I find plausible so that I can find out others' opinions and stand corrected if called for.

 

I am not sure what your point is here? I wasn't trying to discredit you.

 

I think God can be sneaky that's all.

 

And I only really look at quotes if a link is posted. Don't usually have as much time for this as I have had over the last few days because I've been sick and off work. I tend to get carried away when I'm on a roll and I'm not a patient person. If I think something is unjustified, I'll say so, vehemently. I can't help who I am but I thought I was mild in what I said earlier.