Blade of Light, Three Become One. (Full Spoilers).

[algspkr]

We know that Callandor needs a man and two woman to be used safely/effectively.

 

I wold be shocked if two men and a woman could not achieve the same provided that the man controlling the link was not the one using Callandor.

 

Llews Therin said in TGS that the Aes Sedai wanted to use the Choedan Kal, but he knew it wouldn't work - that it's not about raw power.  He also said they failed because there were no women - the men had to do it alone.  It's possible that he was able to taint Sai'din not because it merely touched him, but because it had no sai'dar to balance it out.  The two together he likely couldn't taint.

 

Unless of course you believe RJ when he said that if sai'dar had been used it would have been tainted as well.

 

The True Power is only called the "True Power" by the Forsaken.  It is the Dark One's energy.  There may, conversely, be power that comes directly from the Light, but if so we haven't seen it yet.  This may in fact be sai'din and sai'dar, working together (think the whole two angels with one wing each flying together thing... to that end, the True Power may simply be sai'din and sai'dar together, which the creator separated to be used by humanity... although that is just a random thought, and I won't try real hard to defend it).

 

The descriptions we have of the True Power come from people who have channeled saidin and sai'dar through linking and none of them indicate that what you are saying is the reality of what it is.  It also seems unlikely that it would be hidden from anyone when it was used if this were the case.

 

As for the light power this has been discussed, but is unlikely.

[Cirin]

We know that Callandor needs a man and two woman to be used safely/effectively.

 

I wold be shocked if two men and a woman could not achieve the same provided that the man controlling the link was not the one using Callandor.

 

Llews Therin said in TGS that the Aes Sedai wanted to use the Choedan Kal, but he knew it wouldn't work - that it's not about raw power.  He also said they failed because there were no women - the men had to do it alone.  It's possible that he was able to taint Sai'din not because it merely touched him, but because it had no sai'dar to balance it out.  The two together he likely couldn't taint.

 

Unless of course you believe RJ when he said that if sai'dar had been used it would have been tainted as well.

 

The True Power is only called the "True Power" by the Forsaken.  It is the Dark One's energy.  There may, conversely, be power that comes directly from the Light, but if so we haven't seen it yet.  This may in fact be sai'din and sai'dar, working together (think the whole two angels with one wing each flying together thing... to that end, the True Power may simply be sai'din and sai'dar together, which the creator separated to be used by humanity... although that is just a random thought, and I won't try real hard to defend it).

 

The descriptions we have of the True Power come from people who have channeled saidin and sai'dar through linking and none of them indicate that what you are saying is the reality of what it is.  It also seems unlikely that it would be hidden from anyone when it was used if this were the case.

 

As for the light power this has been discussed, but is unlikely.

 

 

I agree that a light power is unlikely, since the Creator said he wouldn't get involved.  I also didn't mean to suggest that I thought the True Power was actually sai'din and sai'dar combined, it was just a thought that had occurred to me as pure speculation while I was writing.  You are right though, their is no indication that this is the case.  That being said, I don't think Rand will use it against the Dark One, as some suggest.  Maybe I'm wrong, and he will use it, but that's like saying that he'll grab the Dark One's own fist and beat him with it.

 

I also didn't know that RJ had said sai'dar would also be tainted if it had been used, I based that solely on what Llews Therin was saying in the 12th book about his plan failing because the women refused to help.  He is crazy, though... or was, anyway.

 

I do wonder about the male a'dam and Callandor, though, if they are designed to be used together – perhaps not originally, but after it was discovered that Callandor was flawed.  It has two links to it, which is unique, and I believe they say that there was only one made to begin with, and the Seanchan had copied it when they claimed it… but I could be mistaken about that as well… it’s been a while since I’ve read that part, and I don’t remember if they actually copied it, or if they only had the one (with Tuon) that Semirhage than brought with her to the meeting with Rand and he later blew up.

 

[Hadilmir]

The Domination Band had two links because a man can seize control of a circle containing only him and one woman. It isn't unique because of its two links, it's just functional. That is the same reasoning behind Callandor, the man must surrender completely, one woman wouldn't be enough because he could still reflexively seize control.

[dogsdogsdogs]

Robert Jordan didn't realize he was writing Rand as a lapdog for various women. Remember, in criticism he says the women are "strong" not cruel or petty. He also didn't realize he was leaning towards matriarchy; he claimed the world was supposed to be one of real gender equality. So there's no way these themes will be vindicated in the ending. RJ wasn't purposely including them in the first place. It's more of a misunderstanding.

Do you have a link to the QA or any QA where Robert addresses the dichotomy between the men and the women and why the women are insufferable?

[lordofsoup]

Was it ever established exactly what Callandor is made of?  I'm curious, because they talk about it being a crystal blade, but I don't remember them really saying "what" it was shaped from.  I'm curious because I seem to remember in book three, when Rand is battling Ishamael, Ishamael blasting balefire at him (which is curious considering his present viewpoint) and Callandor splitting the balefire in two to fall on either side of Rand.  I've seen nothing in the book since that has such a resiliency to balefire like that.

Callandor did not split the balefire, whatever Rand wove split the balefire.

 

I always thought that Rand had so much of Saiden in him at the time, that the pattern would not allow all of it to be balefired along with him.  

 

Female Channelers he trusts completely, with his life.

Elayne, Nyneave, Moraine, Alivia, Avi.

 

[Durinax]

Lordofsoup you forgot his other woman, Avi

[lordofsoup]

Lordofsoup you forgot his other woman, Avi

 

crap I did, i also forgot the one who also bonded him, I cant remember!

[Dida]

We know that Callandor needs a man and two woman to be used safely/effectively.

 

I wold be shocked if two men and a woman could not achieve the same provided that the man controlling the link was not the one using Callandor.

 

 

  Two men and one woman CANNOT be in a 'Linked Circle' together as the BWB states as a fact this:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women.

 

If the prophecy of the three shall become one is in fact a 'linked circle', it has to be in a ratio of two women and one man. 

 

 

That directly implies that the third individual to join this 'linked circle', has to be a woman without question.

 

 

 

 

[haloun]

My own theory involves the fact of the 'flaw' in Callandor, which might not really be a flaw.

 

My guess is this:

 

Callandor is a Sa'angreal not just for the Male half, but also for the TRUE power. The reason it magnified the Taint is because the Taint and the True Power were effectively identical to it.

 

I assume the Three Become One involves the three Powers:

 

Saidin.

Saidar.

The True Power.

 

Perhaps Rand has to use the True Power to restrain or hold back the Dark One, while using Saidin and Saidar both to seal the hole, via a link. Robert Jordan pretty much said, if I recall one interview correctly, that if just women did it then it would be Saidar that would have been tainted, and if both did, they both would have been.

 

So there needs to be something that keeps the Dark One from touching the Weave, thus the True Power comes into play. Via Rand's link with Moridin, he has access to the True Power most likely. So he can manage to use all three powers to push the Dark One back and repair the Bore like it never was with both the male and female powers.

 

 

 

i like this idea... the other option is the three evils that are ever present.  TDO, the black wind and shadar logoth.  Fain escaped the attack the city itself(the cleansing of Saidin) and so the Shadar Logoth taint is still in play, and will likely be a part of TG, also the ways have to be cleansed, and we know that two of the three hate eachother, is it possible that maybe the third hates the other two just as much and vice versa?  maybe Rand will throw the talisman of growing in the pit of doom, and fain as well.  however i do like the thought that the three powers could be combined to close off the DO prison.  especially considering the black cords that apparently have transfered through Moridin to Rand.  and what if lews therin uses the TP to finally "die"  while rand uses the OP linked with his two channelers, that way all three powers are together,we also have rand, lews therin, and moridin combining in one as well.  there are plenty of possibilities to go with it all, but i like the three powers one best.

[lilltempest]

 

Two men and one woman CANNOT be in a 'Linked Circle' together as the BWB states as a fact this:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women.

 

If the prophecy of the three shall become one is in fact a 'linked circle', it has to be in a ratio of two women and one man. 

 

 

That directly implies that the third individual to join this 'linked circle', has to be a woman without question. 

 

Did you even read what you quoted?? I'll reprint the significant part:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman (and, of course, two men and two women)

 

It states, in black and white, that a circle can, indeed, consist of two men and one woman, so the other poster's theory would work just fine. Additionally, it would make better sense for Rand to have control of the circle - with some other man channeling through Callandor and a woman thrown in to meet the requirements for linking - than to hand it over to some woman and allow her to lead.

[Morsker]

Do you have a link to the QA or any QA where Robert addresses the dichotomy between the men and the women and why the women are insufferable?

I was thinking of these:

 

NYC, NY: Why are the women in your series very obnoxious? Does Harriet play a role in the characters of your women?

RJ: No, the women in my books are not obnoxious. The women in my books are strong. I grew up in a family where all of the men were strong, and the reason is the women in my family killed and ate the weak ones.  When I was a boy, just old enough to be starting to date in a fumbling way, I complained something about girls. And my father said to me, "Would you rather hunt leopards or would you rather hunt rabbits? Which is going to be more fun?" And I decided I'd rather hunt leopards.

By the by, I’ve seen a lot of comment, apparently from men, that my female characters are unrealistic. That’s because women are, for the most part, consummate actresses who allow men to see exactly what they intend men to see. Get behind the veil sometimes, boys, and your hair will turn white. I’ve been there, and mine went white and didn’t stop there; a great deal of it actually turned dark again, the shock to my system was so great. Believe me, I mild it down so as not to scare any males into mental breakdowns.

 

He denies that the women are insufferable, and even tacitly makes the accusation that any reader who thinks so is weak-minded, or ignorant of women. Regardless, the "insufferability" of women isn't a theme in WoT. It's a miscommunication with some readers seeing something the author didn't intend.

 

Oh, and this is the link I found it on, from Terez's quote database: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_90hcpvqvdb

[Fains nose]

If Rand uses Callandor with two women then will one of the women have to control the flows, could she pass control to Rand? If not, that suggests Rand will use callandor with one man and one woman so he can have control, if that is the case will Narishma be the man?

[algspkr]

We know that Callandor needs a man and two woman to be used safely/effectively.

 

I wold be shocked if two men and a woman could not achieve the same provided that the man controlling the link was not the one using Callandor.

 

 

  Two men and one woman CANNOT be in a 'Linked Circle' together as the BWB states as a fact this:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the [glow=yellow,2,300]exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman[/glow] (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women.

 

If the prophecy of the three shall become one is in fact a 'linked circle', it has to be in a ratio of two women and one man. 

 

 

That directly implies that the third individual to join this 'linked circle', has to be a woman without question.

 

 

Did you even read what you typed in; I highlighted what supports my statement.

 

 

[dogsdogsdogs]

Do you have a link to the QA or any QA where Robert addresses the dichotomy between the men and the women and why the women are insufferable?

I was thinking of these:

 

NYC, NY: Why are the women in your series very obnoxious? Does Harriet play a role in the characters of your women?

RJ: No, the women in my books are not obnoxious. The women in my books are strong. I grew up in a family where all of the men were strong, and the reason is the women in my family killed and ate the weak ones.  When I was a boy, just old enough to be starting to date in a fumbling way, I complained something about girls. And my father said to me, "Would you rather hunt leopards or would you rather hunt rabbits? Which is going to be more fun?" And I decided I'd rather hunt leopards.

By the by, I’ve seen a lot of comment, apparently from men, that my female characters are unrealistic. That’s because women are, for the most part, consummate actresses who allow men to see exactly what they intend men to see. Get behind the veil sometimes, boys, and your hair will turn white. I’ve been there, and mine went white and didn’t stop there; a great deal of it actually turned dark again, the shock to my system was so great. Believe me, I mild it down so as not to scare any males into mental breakdowns.

 

He denies that the women are insufferable, and even tacitly makes the accusation that any reader who thinks so is weak-minded, or ignorant of women. Regardless, the insufferably of women isn't a theme in WoT. It's a miscommunication with some readers seeing something the author didn't intend.

 

Oh, and this is the link I found it on, from Terez's quote database: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_90hcpvqvdb

well would you look at that, Rj certainly had some strange notions about women.

[SuperFade]

He denies that the women are insufferable, and even tacitly makes the accusation that any reader who thinks so is weak-minded, or ignorant of women. Regardless, the insufferably of women isn't a theme in WoT. It's a miscommunication with some readers seeing something the author didn't intend.

 

Really? And here I was thinking that it was a clever way of saying that men and women can be just as bad as each other. That really sucks. Makes you wonder whether he approved of the abuse WoT men suffer at the hands of their womenfolk. If he even saw it as such.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I keep hearing the theory about 3 being LTT Rand and Morridin, while i do not doubt that morridin has some kind of link, the LTT part of it has been proven wrong

 

(The Gathering Storm: Chapter 50: Veins of Gold)He knew -somehow- that he would never again hear Lews Therin's voice in his head. For they were not two men, and never had been

 

So after that, i doubt that the LTT/R/M theory can be in any way correct, how come people keep bringing it up? If i am somehow wrong, which i may be, please somebody explain, but the quote seems pretty self-explanitory to me.

 

Note: Of course this could be just Rand's own opinion which is not correct (which happens alot through the WOT, however i do not think that likely)

[haloun]

I keep hearing the theory about 3 being LTT Rand and Morridin, while i do not doubt that morridin has some kind of link, the LTT part of it has been proven wrong

 

(The Gathering Storm: Chapter 50: Veins of Gold)He knew -somehow- that he would never again hear Lews Therin's voice in his head. For they were not two men, and never had been

 

So after that, i doubt that the LTT/R/M theory can be in any way correct, how come people keep bringing it up? If i am somehow wrong, which i may be, please somebody explain, but the quote seems pretty self-explanitory to me.

 

Note: Of course this could be just Rand's own opinion which is not correct (which happens alot through the WOT, however i do not think that likely)

 

i think that it means one thing and we are meant to think of it differently, if they were two men how could LTT give rand so much information about the forsaken.  about the things they did, i.e. when taim shows up and he quotes a list of their crimes, the visions he has had of the war of power, these things are not from his own personal memory as rand al'thor, but from his collective memory as a soul.  the fact that certain of the forsaken refuse to believe that he is not LTT and continue to call him that.  perhaps his drawing that much saidin through the CK merged the DR with the original dragon, and the two personalities finally became one so far as their goals, however he has watched himself channel saidin without being in control of the flows, could saidin have been chanelling itslef, or was it the original dragon?  now i am NOT discounting necessarily that rand may be right and it was all just the madness, but there is too much eveidence that he A. is mad already and B. is not always right.  especially at the end of TGS.  i still think, but i will have to wait for TOM to be sure, but i still think that Lews therin will still be there, just a HEck of a lot more cooporative, and sane.  and when the time comes, he may be able to channel the two different powers at the same time to keep the DO from throwing a taint on the OP at the end of all of this.

[mossman87]

We know that Callandor needs a man and two woman to be used safely/effectively.

 

I wold be shocked if two men and a woman could not achieve the same provided that the man controlling the link was not the one using Callandor.

 

 

  Two men and one woman CANNOT be in a 'Linked Circle' together as the BWB states as a fact this:

 

Other gender mixes are possible in a link as well. The number of men in a circle is limited only by the fact that with the [glow=yellow,2,300]exceptions of the linking of one man and one woman or of two men and one woman[/glow] (and, of course, two men and two women), there must always be at least one more woman in the circle than the number of men. Thus, three men would need four women to be in a circle together, four men would need five women, and so on. There can also be smaller circles than thirteen, whether of women alone or of men and women.

 

If the prophecy of the three shall become one is in fact a 'linked circle', it has to be in a ratio of two women and one man. 

 

 

That directly implies that the third individual to join this 'linked circle', has to be a woman without question.

 

 

Did you even read what you typed in; I highlighted what supports my statement.

 

 

 

Quoted for Effect.

[havoc110]

MYSTERY SOLVED MYSTERY SOLVED MYSTERY SOLVED MYSTERY SOLVED

 

I found this last night by accident in The Dragon Reborn.

Chapter 4, Shadow Sleeping

 

'Three threads woven together share one another’s doom. When one is cut, all are.'

 

Unless this is merely a coincidence (in which I do not believe), the 'three' that must 'become one' are Perrin, Matt and Rand. End of discussion  ;D

 

It just means that the boys lives are tied to one another. If one dies, everything fails. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

The prophecy in question refers to 3 becoming one and is used in conjecture with the Blade of Light. There is ONLY ONE Blade of Light I know of, Callandor. It takes 3 folk to make it serve it's max potential. 2 women and 1 guy. I believe that 1 guy to be Rand, and the 2 women to be either of these combination. Avi and Alivia or Caddy and Olivia. I really lean towards Caddy and Alivia because Cadsuane is fixing to kick it in her old age and Alivia is supposed to help Rand die.

 

I agree that it will be Cads and Alivia with Rand using Callandor to re-seal the bore.  Cads has been toting the thing around for what seems forever.  She's devoted much to study Callendor, and won't allow anyone else to take her place.  She sees herself with an important duty at the last battle, but her words and thoughts don't really seem to revolve much around AFTER the last battle.  That and Alivia has been hovering around Rand's camp, also for what seems forever, waiting for a yet-to-be-discovered task.  There's a job opening for a powerful female channeler to play the role of Woman #2 in the Callandor circle, and she seem perfectly fit for the role.

[mlovelock]

I keep hearing the theory about 3 being LTT Rand and Morridin, while i do not doubt that morridin has some kind of link, the LTT part of it has been proven wrong

 

(The Gathering Storm: Chapter 50: Veins of Gold)He knew -somehow- that he would never again hear Lews Therin's voice in his head. For they were not two men, and never had been

 

So after that, i doubt that the LTT/R/M theory can be in any way correct, how come people keep bringing it up? If i am somehow wrong, which i may be, please somebody explain, but the quote seems pretty self-explanitory to me.

 

Note: Of course this could be just Rand's own opinion which is not correct (which happens alot through the WOT, however i do not think that likely)

 

 

How is that wrong? The 3 have to become one so he has become one with LTT so far and now there is just Morridin to go. Once he becomes his "complete" self he will be able to hold the sword without all the fireworks....well that is just an angle on it anyway. the 3 different self thing must tie in with the 3 wives/girlfriends as well - haven't looked through enough discussions here but I presume this has been discussed.

[Terez]

It's wrong because Rand and Lews Therin were never two. So they can't become one, because they always have been.

 

'Three shall be one' is easy. Callandor is a big fat red herring. The three ta'veren interpretation is a stretch. The three Powers becoming one...ain't happening. The triple bond, however...

[FarShainMael]

The three ta'veren interpretation is a stretch.

 

I disagree..

 

'Cut one leg of the tripod, and all fall down.'

[mlovelock]

It's wrong because Rand and Lews Therin were never two. So they can't become one, because they always have been.

 

'Three shall be one' is easy. Callandor is a big fat red herring. The three ta'veren interpretation is a stretch. The three Powers becoming one...ain't happening. The triple bond, however...

 

 

Sorry I am still struggling then with how Rand knew all that stuff from LTT then.... was it not just memories of his former self on the wheel?

[FarShainMael]

Yes, that's exactly what they were. LTT was his former self.

[Terez]

The three ta'veren interpretation is a stretch.

 

I disagree..

 

'Cut one leg of the tripod, and all fall down.'

In that sense (assuming it is true, which I doubt), then they already are one, and don't need to become so.