The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Shazzai]

Channeling without a sul'dam causes nausea, not pain.  Touching the a'dam with the power causes pain i think.

 

If the trick could be used to ignore the pain & remove the a'dam, why couldn't Moghedian do it?

 

You're right, it's nausea, not pain.  Painful, debilitating nausea.  Just apply the concentration to ignoring that too.

 

Moghedien doesn't know how to apply it that way.  Moggy also didn't seem to realize she could channel at all with the necklace on.

[SI]

(Off-topic, there may be ways to tie off a Gate safely and hence, for a channeler to open many gates simultaneously, thus multiplying Travelling efficiency with large forces. The odd thing is, we've never seen this - not from Ashaman, nor AS or even Rand himself, though he's clever with finding ways to use channeling. Only chap who did tie off was Sammael who loosely tied the gates he wove for the Shaido so they closed unpredictably and Rand-Logain tied off deathgates loosely of course.)

 

I would think that isn't possible, otherwise the AoL wouldn't need any planes, but rather just an airport with a bunch of tied off gateways to the other cities.

[trowabartan]

Personally I've always wondered about Rand's 3rd "alter-ego"(presumably him from the first age that lews therin hints at as 'the other one' and matches up with Avienda)

 

Something small that was first dropped in those books but could potentially be something big but I imagine it will be something dropped.

 

That's the only thing that comes immediately to mind that I didn't see mentioned in FAQs and 30 pages of this topic that was first hinted at in books 4-6.

[Luckers]

Personally I've always wondered about Rand's 3rd "alter-ego"(presumably him from the first age that lews therin hints at as 'the other one' and matches up with Avienda)

 

Something small that was first dropped in those books but could potentially be something big but I imagine it will be something dropped.

 

That's the only thing that comes immediately to mind that I didn't see mentioned in FAQs and 30 pages of this topic that was first hinted at in books 4-6.

 

The 'third man' is Moridin.

[nophone]

Maybe it has something to do with WHY the Aiel were servents to the Aes Sedai.

 

The Aiel were known to sing with the Ogier right? 

 

This is a long shot, but is it possible that the melody, when sung by Ogier and the servants of the Aes Sedai... that there is some sort of harmonic amplification of the power, similar to the effects of an Angreal, or maybe even that it allows for joining a circle over greater distances with less difficulty...

 

there has to be some reason that the Aiel were servents of the Aes sedai. It was almost like they were the non channeling meek little door mats of the Aes sedai... but they liked it.. at the same time Aiel were also respected in the Age of Legends too, isn't that right?

 

Does anybody remember what was happening during the scene where Rand observed (or was it partook) in the singing of the song? Is it assumed that the song being performed while he was in the Ter'angreal in Rhudien, is the song that is sought  after by the traveling people?

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

Maybe it has something to do with WHY the Aiel were servents to the Aes Sedai.

 

The Aiel were known to sing with the Ogier right? 

 

This is a long shot, but is it possible that the melody, when sung by Ogier and the servants of the Aes Sedai... that there is some sort of harmonic amplification of the power, similar to the effects of an Angreal, or maybe even that it allows for joining a circle over greater distances with less difficulty...

 

there has to be some reason that the Aiel were servents of the Aes sedai. It was almost like they were the non channeling meek little door mats of the Aes sedai... but they liked it.. at the same time Aiel were also respected in the Age of Legends too, isn't that right?

 

Does anybody remember what was happening during the scene where Rand observed (or was it partook) in the singing of the song? Is it assumed that the song being performed while he was in the Ter'angreal in Rhudien, is the song that is sought  after by the traveling people?

 

the aiel were servents of the aes sedai due to the covenant(later the way of the leaf). they were sworn to non violance, and the aes sedai saw it as their resposibility to look after them, in return, the aiel acted as honored servents. the general populace respected them for three reasons,

 

1. they lived a pacifist lifestyle.

2. they served the servents of all(kinda repaying the debt from society).

3. they helped with the singing of crops.

 

when Rand lived the lives of his ancestors, during the singing, there were aiel, ogier, and a nym present. the ael began the singing, then the ogier joined in, whilst the nym danced and seemed to weave the singing and seperate notes etc into growing the crop. i dont think it has anything to do with the power though. the ogier treesing these days, wich is the modern version of crop singing, and the ogier do not use the OP, in fact, they sing in their stedding where the OP is useless anyway. i dont think it can aid in long distance circles, that a bit far fetched for something that doesnt use the power.

[nophone]

when Rand lived the lives of his ancestors, during the singing, there were aiel, ogier, and a nym present. the ael began the singing, then the ogier joined in, whilst the nym danced and seemed to weave the singing and seperate notes etc into growing the crop. i dont think it has anything to do with the power though. the ogier treesing these days, wich is the modern version of crop singing, and the ogier do not use the OP, in fact, they sing in their stedding where the OP is useless anyway. i dont think it can aid in long distance circles, that a bit far fetched for something that doesnt use the power.

 

Hmmm. very far fetched. Thank you for refreshing my memory. It seems that Rands foul moods were related to the spoiling of food in The Gathering Storm, and perhaps the singing could be a means of revitalizing crops and feeding the people.  The subject of feeding the people seems moot with respect to the foreshadowing suggested by Brandon. If he's surprised it's not being discussed after seeing the underbelly of RJ's juggernaut epic fantasy series, then the topic of the crops seems to dismissive. We really didn't start hearing much about food going bad untill after saidin was cleansed. The "power failing" and the food going bad have been tied together by statements made by Aes Sedai... Even the OP was unable to keep the food from spoiling. Even Elaida was eating bread with the -least- amount of spoilage.

 

The food spoiling is significant though. It's prominence in the last couple books seem to suggest that it is building up to something. More loose ends for Brandon to tie up. He's done a nice job of it so far.

 

You get so used to RJ opening up new plot lines and not resolving old ones that it's almost unnerving to see loose ends getting tied up... and then you remember that it sort of has to, because the series is coming to a close.

 

I wonder how many unresolved issues will float around after the release of A Memory of Light. I'm certain that Brandon is going to use the page notes left behind by Jordan to develop a book about "What Robert Jordan Never Told You about TWoT" once the series has concluded.

[ed2funy]

Actually, think about the food issues started a long way back.

 

Rand ordered Tear to sell to Cairhien and to keep trading with Illian.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think it is likely something to do with the Song.

 

P.S. I think we will see a lot of things resolved in ToM, but we will still have plenty left open for AMoL.

 

Also, I have heard that there are some things RJ never intended to actually release (like a statement about Asmo's killer  :o).

[Wantanswers]

Actually, think about the food issues started a long way back.

 

Rand ordered Tear to sell to Cairhien and to keep trading with Illian[/Quote]

 

In Illian the shortage of food was caused by Sammael, because he used it all to feed his army.(ACoS, chapter 41). In Cairhien it was caused by the bad infrastructure, due to the civil war.

 

[ed2funy]

Yes, but it was still a food problem.

There was also a long winter that caused people to have less grain, no?

And then, it was a long summer.

 

The food shortage in general started a long time ago.

I don't mean just the food related to the Power.

[nophone]

Yes, but it was still a food problem.

There was also a long winter that caused people to have less grain, no?

And then, it was a long summer.

 

The food shortage in general started a long time ago.

I don't mean just the food related to the Power.

 

Yeah, but now it's spoiling in an instant. The previous shortages were caused by more conventional means. It's gotta be the song. Brandon even revisited the traveling people briefly (via Rand) in the TGS.

[thewalrus777]

There really has been a food problem since Rand made his claim as the Dragon. He's also said to be "one with the land". IMO, it means that the land will weather the ups and downs that Rand has against the DO. Right now the struggle against the DO is seriously coming to a head. Very dark days are still in the future and the land will will probably suffer even more.

 

Now that i think of it, there were food problems even EoTW. The Two Rivers folk were having a very hard time with their harvest because of the unbelievably long winter they were experiencing.

 

To sum it all up, the food problem will ONLY get worse until it get's better in the world(i.e. Rand kicking the DO's arse).

 

I would also imagine, that the Aiel song will be found to help heal the land once Rand has done his business.

[Flamingskulls]

What if the unnoticed thing has something to do with morgase? She is talked about in the beginning of book six and has be playing a small part in many of the books.

[GB]

Here's something from Lord of Chaos which might get you thinking

 

Lord of Chaos - Chapter 19 Matters of Toh(page 436)

 

"There is one other I can tell you, though it may not concern you." Which meant there were some she would not tell, which made him wonder why the Wise Ones had discussed them with her, since she was not a dreamwalker. "All three had this dream, which makes it especially significant. Rain." that word still came clumsily too, "coming from a bowl. There are snares and pitfalls around the bowl. If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl. If the wrong hands, the world is doomed. The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer."

 

The whole world is doomed bit is quite eye catching.

 

Hmm...what is this "a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl?" And how does the part "...find the one who is no longer." Fits with the bowl of winds and Mat? Does anyone has any idea?

 

 

Hmmmm regarding the treasure as great as the bowl.......could it all the angreal and ter'angreal and the one who is no longer is Setalle Annan who was Aes Sedai but burnt herself out and is no longer?

[thewalrus777]

Here's something from Lord of Chaos which might get you thinking

 

Lord of Chaos - Chapter 19 Matters of Toh(page 436)

 

"There is one other I can tell you, though it may not concern you." Which meant there were some she would not tell, which made him wonder why the Wise Ones had discussed them with her, since she was not a dreamwalker. "All three had this dream, which makes it especially significant. Rain." that word still came clumsily too, "coming from a bowl. There are snares and pitfalls around the bowl. If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl. If the wrong hands, the world is doomed. The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer."

 

The whole world is doomed bit is quite eye catching.

 

Hmm...what is this "a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl?" And how does the part "...find the one who is no longer." Fits with the bowl of winds and Mat? Does anyone has any idea?

 

 

Hmmmm regarding the treasure as great as the bowl.......could it all the angreal and ter'angreal and the one who is no longer is Setalle Annan who was Aes Sedai but burnt herself out and is no longer?

 

It's generally accepted that the "one who is no longer" is Satelle. And the treasure probably being the store of angreal and such that is found with the Kin.

[ed2funy]

I agree that the treasure is most likely the stash.

 

But it could be the change in the weather itself.

[BladeDancer]

There really has been a food problem since Rand made his claim as the Dragon. He's also said to be "one with the land". IMO, it means that the land will weather the ups and downs that Rand has against the DO. Right now the struggle against the DO is seriously coming to a head. Very dark days are still in the future and the land will will probably suffer even more.

 

Now that i think of it, there were food problems even EoTW. The Two Rivers folk were having a very hard time with their harvest because of the unbelievably long winter they were experiencing.

 

To sum it all up, the food problem will ONLY get worse until it get's better in the world(i.e. Rand kicking the DO's arse).

 

I would also imagine, that the Aiel song will be found to help heal the land once Rand has done his business.

 

In the Gathering Storm prologue we have evidence of farmers being unable to bring crops to harvest and indeed then abandoning farming altogether due to the threat of war, the instability of the times and the coming Last Battle. If this scene is typical in Randland then the food supply is ending. We have also seen evidence in earlier books of farmers in the 2 Rivers leaving to find adventure, again if this is replicated then this points to a dramatic reduction in food producers even before the current crop failures.

 

The Food Shortage problem is pretty bad. It does not matter how big or tough your Borderlanders, Aiel armies  or White and Black Towers are. Without food they are all dead in a month, with rationing possibly two months. The Aiel/Ogier/Tinker singing to help grow food will be vital to stave off mass starvation imo. And this will be needed before The Last Battle unless it happens within a few months. OK possibly Rand laughing and losing his Dark Aura may stop instant food spoilage and thus prolong the food supply and postpone the need to sing food crops but it will be needed. Unless it is possible to replicate/make food using the OP or a Ter'Angreal (which would be the most useful thing ever for Elayne to make, apart from a Dark One instant annihilator or a Time Ter'Angreal) then the food supply issue is going to force itself to be a priority - never mind about finding out about who is bonding who - where is Dinner coming from?

 

Dogs and Cats are going to go from Rover and Tom to Breakfast and Lunch. Mandarb is going to go from a Stallion to Supper. The proliferation of Rats will prove a good thing as folks can have a sandwich or two. Hopefully Rand will not have to be receiving Bela soup from the Maidens before he realises that food supply matters. Rand grew up on a farm and he should realise the importance of food supply. Matt knows about the importance of logistics, Perrin knows about a good Hunt. The Trollocs won't be the only ones eating Tinkers once other food runs out. I doubt the next 2 books will be one gigantic famine-fest so I expect this issue to be addressed in the next book.

[NetSlider]

Maybe it has something to do with WHY the Aiel were servents to the Aes Sedai.

 

The Aiel were known to sing with the Ogier right? 

 

This is a long shot, but is it possible that the melody, when sung by Ogier and the servants of the Aes Sedai... that there is some sort of harmonic amplification of the power, similar to the effects of an Angreal, or maybe even that it allows for joining a circle over greater distances with less difficulty...

 

there has to be some reason that the Aiel were servents of the Aes sedai. It was almost like they were the non channeling meek little door mats of the Aes sedai... but they liked it.. at the same time Aiel were also respected in the Age of Legends too, isn't that right?

 

Does anybody remember what was happening during the scene where Rand observed (or was it partook) in the singing of the song? Is it assumed that the song being performed while he was in the Ter'angreal in Rhudien, is the song that is sought  after by the traveling people?

 

Didn't Aiel served LTT exclusively, later on?

[Nightstrike]

Some, but not all of them. Some served other Aes Sedai.

 

Just looked it up in the Guide. Maybe I'm wrong... They were called the "People of the Dragon". Maybe they did serve him in the end?

[Matcauthon999]

Is it possible that it is the nature of the taveren-taveren pull, because this started in book 4 really with Perrin going to the Two Rivers and Mat trying to go, its also mentioned a lot throughout but never explained or ever really questioned (colours in the head). I can't really think about what it could mean but I've been doing a read through and that comes up as a fairly obvious thing in book 4 and throughout that's never really discussed in huge detail.

[Auld Manriva]

Most seem to think "the three become one" phrase refers to Rand/LTT/Morry. Or to the circle formed to use Calandor.

 

WHAT if it is Rand, Mat and Perrin learning to use the tool they've been given. Or understanding just WHAT it is they've been given. Myself I have no idea, but it would seem to be something that is a small annoyance to each but with HUGE implications. Suppose it's more than just "viewing" each other?

 

Anyone remember When it began? Anyone have a clue Why?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

A Nym is a construct of the OP, so is the Avendesora Tree. How and by whom were they "made"? Might Rand know now how to make a Nym? Would seem to me (from what I've read in past thread posts and BWB)  that Aiel, Nym and Ogier together are needed to make the growing song work.

 

Who among the remnants of the Da'Sahain Aiel would be the ones to learn the song? Tinkers? Who search for "the Song"? THEY abandoned the "covenant" to take the objects of power to safety, which is at the root of why current Aiel despise them. Aiel of the Waste abandoned The Way of the Leaf, which is why Tinkers look upon them with sadness or maybe pity. Can either group take up the ancient mantle? The Da'shain Aiel were the ones who HAD the song. That "talent" is needed again to feed Randland.

 

The season's in TGS seemed to have returned to normal from things we read. It's the "crops" that were not responding. Rand's persona is likely the cause for that and faster spoilage but will his simply being more "The Lord of the Morning" now bring about the kind of harvest or even a faster one that they desperately need?

[Sharaman]

Most seem to think "the three become one" phrase refers to Rand/LTT/Morry. Or to the circle formed to use Calandor.

 

WHAT if it is Rand, Mat and Perrin learning to use the tool they've been given. Or understanding just WHAT it is they've been given. Myself I have no idea, but it would seem to be something that is a small annoyance to each but with HUGE implications. Suppose it's more than just "viewing" each other?

 

Anyone remember When it began? Anyone have a clue Why?

 

Rand starts having "flashes" while he's in the box kidnapped. Those flashes eventually develop into visions of Mat and Perrin.

The other two seems to start later. The best guess must be Ta'veren links between them.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

A Nym is a construct of the OP, so is the Avendesora Tree. How and by whom were they "made"? Might Rand know now how to make a Nym? Would seem to me (from what I've read in past thread posts and BWB)  that Aiel, Nym and Ogier together are needed to make the growing song work.

 

Who among the remnants of the Da'Sahain Aiel would be the ones to learn the song? Tinkers? Who search for "the Song"? THEY abandoned the "covenant" to take the objects of power to safety, which is at the root of why current Aiel despise them. Aiel of the Waste abandoned The Way of the Leaf, which is why Tinkers look upon them with sadness or maybe pity. Can either group take up the ancient mantle? The Da'shain Aiel were the ones who HAD the song. That "talent" is needed again to feed Randland.

 

The season's in TGS seemed to have returned to normal from things we read. It's the "crops" that were not responding. Rand's persona is likely the cause for that and faster spoilage but will his simply being more "The Lord of the Morning" now bring about the kind of harvest or even a faster one that they desperately need?

 

There is some deal to do with the tinkers- the bunch that are killed in LoC with an incomplete msg to the DR. Then, Egwene sees them when she uses need in TGS.

There's also the Bleakness - the Aiel who have chucked away their weapons. Maybe they'll revert to dai'shain levels of pacifism.

 

LTT might know how to make Nym - it's also possible that the Ogier do - they have long memories and records and clearly, they're interested parties. In fact, of all interested parties, their historical continuity is strongest. While they suffered post-breaking, they didn't degenerate or change dramatically like human cultures.  

 

At one point, Cadsuane remarks it's no fun growing roses with the Power. That means the Power can be used to grow stuff. So maybe, Rand will start an Agriculture Ministry.

 

In another thread, I did point out a way in which Balefire could be used to improve food production. Line up a herd of cattle, get a trolloc to slaughter them, eat the meat. Then Balefire the trolloc hard. The cattle come back to life whole and hearty. Of course, I was seeing it as a possible solution to trolloc logistics (substitute Borderland prisoners for cattle). But it could work this way as well :)  

 

[lordofsoup]

What about the dagger that makes you invisible to shadowspawn, or the black rod that has to do with pain or the key that has to do with singing?  Those are the only 3 terangreal that Elayne and Avi go into any detail on.

[BladeDancer]

I believe the ability to sing crops is a genetic trait with the Aiel. As the Aiel have basically lived in the Waste for thousands of years they have not interbred with other people and so maintain their bloodlines. As a culture they generally do not sing, so have not seen whether their singing has any special properties. Quite ironic really considering they live in the most barren part of the world and the Waste is probably the one area of the World where singing to magically aid crop production would be the most useful.

 

I forsee the Aiel making the Waste bloom using their singing once they have rediscovered the song. In order to do this they will have to co-operate with Ogiers, Tinkers and probably a Nym. Perhaps the Aiel will make Avendesora bloom again through singing.

[Crael123]

if the aiel had the ability to Sing plants then why is the aiel waste still called the WASTE? that would be very ironic though.