The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Bastor]

I personally feel as though the clues lie with either Fain, or with Hel(the philosopher). He said something like there are 3 ages. First age, DO is blocked and the world is unaware. Then they unwittingly bore a hole into his prison. 2nd Age would be from that point until it is sealed. 3rd age would be the prison being remade and back to the 1st Age of unawareness.

Something like that, it may be off. But he also said something about how it might not be the Dragon Reborn who does it. It seemed to imply to me that the pattern would fix the prison. If that is the case, then thats why clearing the rubble becomes important. Get the seals out of the way, clear out what Lews Therin and the 100 companions did, so the pattern can fix the bore.

That would leave the DO with the only option of destroying the pattern, since that is his true enemy. Which also seems to be his ultimate goal.

This is where Fain comes in to play. Once the seals are removed and the bore is re-opened they have to contain the DO somehow so the pattern can fix the prison. Fain's evil battling the DO could possibly weaken them both and keep them too busy to spread.

The Hel stuff has been pretty much discussed a lot...so has the Fein evil...we missed something a lot bigger and a lot more invisible I am afraid...

PS Hel is right I suppose....Rand or someone after Rand will completely brake the DO prison and rebuild the reality around him so that he is completely sealed....IF we assume that the DO doesn't win in the end....wouldn't that be interesting? :)

[lillcheese]

I think I'm most entertained that "Herid Fel" has turned into "Hel" for some people. 

[NetSlider]

Here's something from Lord of Chaos which might get you thinking

 

Lord of Chaos - Chapter 19 Matters of Toh(page 436)

 

"There is one other I can tell you, though it may not concern you." Which meant there were some she would not tell, which made him wonder why the Wise Ones had discussed them with her, since she was not a dreamwalker. "All three had this dream, which makes it especially significant. Rain." that word still came clumsily too, "coming from a bowl. There are snares and pitfalls around the bowl. If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl. If the wrong hands, the world is doomed. The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer."

 

The whole world is doomed bit is quite eye catching.

 

Hmm...what is this "a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl?" And how does the part "...find the one who is no longer." Fits with the bowl of winds and Mat? Does anyone has any idea?

[aunt_pol]

 

I agree with Skeeve, I have to say. I def smell an end to all the channeling, I think that's the price the world is gonna have to pay to be rid of the DO for a couple Ages. I also think Veins of Gold was a huge hint for this: destroying the CK is a huge flag to everyone to not get too attached to their fantastic weaponry. The day of Mat & Aludra's mehanical murder is approaching, the era of magic is on it's way out.

[AlienSpaceBat]

I know Fel's note and what it means has been discussed to death, but ...

 

It's said that the note is on part of a page torn from a book, so it must be obvious that this is so. The piece is large enough to keep on using as a bookmark.

 

The amount of writing in the note is a little large to fit in a margin of a torn piece, so I'm guessing that it is on the blank side of say the last page of a chapter.

 

To know it came from a book there must be printing on it to distinguish it from a notebook. The note either gives away the book it was torn from, or my guess is that there is printing on the other side of the note which bears on what Fel wrote.

 

(or not of course !)

[Ashaman Kovan]

Here's something from Lord of Chaos which might get you thinking

 

Lord of Chaos - Chapter 19 Matters of Toh(page 436)

 

"There is one other I can tell you, though it may not concern you." Which meant there were some she would not tell, which made him wonder why the Wise Ones had discussed them with her, since she was not a dreamwalker. "All three had this dream, which makes it especially significant. Rain." that word still came clumsily too, "coming from a bowl. There are snares and pitfalls around the bowl. If the right hands pick it up, they will find a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl. If the wrong hands, the world is doomed. The key to finding the bowl is to find the one who is no longer."

 

The whole world is doomed bit is quite eye catching.

 

Hmm...what is this "a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl?" And how does the part "...find the one who is no longer." Fits with the bowl of winds and Mat? Does anyone has any idea?

 

I'm pretty sure the "One who is no longer" was Setalle Anan. Used to be Aes Sedai but was burnt out and is "no longer" Aes Sedai. She led them to the kin which led them to the bowl. Mystery solved.

[fincanta]

I have not been able to read all the comments so if this has already been discussed forgive me. I think the unnoticed thing is that the male a'dam works in reverse. This means that it may be possible for Rand to train himself to use it in this way  by allowing a female channeler he trusts to wear the braclets while he wears the collar until he reaches the point where he can reverse the control whenever he chooses. If he is able to do this we can immagine him allowing Tuon to collar him, letting her think she has forced him to bow to the crystal throne only to discover that rather than Rand being under her control he has used it to bind her to him since she could not even take the braclets off without his help. I can think of no other plot line that could really make use of this little know fact about the male a'dam.

[ed2funy]

But for how long?

 

It takes time to reverse it, and I don't think she would wear it all the time.

imo, it wouldn't work....she would eventually learn what it does and how it works. He would have to wait until he got full control so she couldn't just take the bracelet off.

[Tensai0211]

The treasure as great as the Bowl of Winds, I would suggest is the Ter'angreal that Aviendha discovered among the Ebou Dar Cache. I think it was in CoT in a chapter entitled Another Talent that we learn she can "sense" what a Ter'angreal is used for and one of the items was basically part of the whole "Aiel history/Tinkers/Song" plot line that began back in book 4 when Rand walked through the columns in Rhuidean.

 

As it stands now if something isn't done about the food shortages and spoilage, then famine is going to be a huge problem regardless of any other issues. I think its something we overlook, given that most of the perspectives we recieve are from characters who in terms of status and postion are important and would literally be the last to feel the effects(we've seen a few hints and the biggest being the entire cargo of grain spoiling in TGS), but the common man is probably suffering greatly right now and has been for a while.

 

The Song plotline has been there from the beginning, our first real answer was given in TSR, which explained many things, this then leads on to the whole Bowl of winds plotline where they incidentally picked up a Ter'angreal that would be used during the seed singing ritual. Now Aviendha is on her way to Rhuidean to walk through the columns and i suspect she will see a similar memory to Rands with the whole seed singing ritual and the ter'angreal in use.

 

The question i have is will it be Rand or Aviendha who finds the song....

[ed2funy]

It seems being able to Sing crops and all was a sort of Talent.

 

TEotW: Prolouge: Dragonmount

 

LTT's POV:

Ah, a guest. Have you the Voice, stranger? It will soon be time for the Singing, and here all are welcome to take part.

 

I just want to say that....the only Singing we know of from the AoL is the Song.

 

A way can be found around having the Nym. The 'primitive' Third Age channelers have discoverd/found things not in the AoL.

 

Or maybe Avi will find a ter'angreal to make some?

[wormwood]

Seen Darkhounds mentioned a couple of times in this thread but only once did I see someone question who is commanding them.

[NetSlider]

I've been following this post form the first page and it is because of this discussion that I've actually signed up for the account here. But does any one feel that this is really kind of going nowhere or am I alone in this? Anyway, someone mentioned earlier that the three books BS mentioned are some of the largest ones. Also these three books follow pretty much all of the character, unlike in some other ones (tDR) some characters are barely included (in this case Rand) which cuts possibilities of small things unnoticed considerably.

Anyway, I was thinking about how to approach this whole subject and re-listen to all of the books in some sort of systematic way. I quickly realized that  it would require a lot of time, and to tell the truth I'm still stuck on tSR (which is one of my favorites). And than it hit me, instead of looking from the beginning (in this case book 4) I think it is a lot smarter to start from the end (book 6). Here is why.

BS said himself the thing has been mentioned in books 4-6. The question that I have why book 6 and not 7 or 8 or even just 5. Even if he would include only 4 and 5 it would be still more than enough ground to cover. And yet he did not proceed to book 7 which to indicates that either the thing is not mentioned in book 7 at all or he was not sure it was mentioned in that book. If it was not mentioned in book 7 but was mentioned in book 6 a process of elimination can be applied (though tidies work but possible) and a list of solid items can be derived.

If he was not sure that the thing was mentioned in the 7 that indicates that he is sure the thing WAS MENTIONED IN BOOK 6. In this case book 4 and 5 can be dismissed as irrelevant at this point and all attention should be put on book 6. Once again, a list of items can be made and than cross referenced with book 4 and 5.

Now, all this being said I really don't think one person can truly figure out this puzzle and still have time for work/family/personal life/or sleep. And in the even that one of us does hit the right ball by luck the other members will or can shut down the right line of thought without realizing it. Plus, there are too many distractions with side discussions and other things (I myself am guilty as charged).

So, the only conclusion I see is to take book 6, break it down into manageable parts, have individuals assigned to each part, and than closely re-read the part assigned. After, each person should make a list of items mentioned in the part assigned to them that is not directly referenced to the issue discussed in their parts (for example, any thoughts, flashbacks, weird comments, or items that are not specifically refering to the issue at hand). Than, parts should be re-assigned again and the process should be repeated by another person. Naturally, the lists should be compared and than each part (now consisted of two lists) should be discussed and revised by all participating people.

Than, after all said and done only very few items should be remaining, the independent research begins. Everyone should do a research on each remaining items independently and after done cross reference the notes. Only after this I believe we can truly can come close to the right conclusions (or at least as close as possible).

Now, before you say I'm crazy and insane for even writing all of this and that this project will take a long time I disagree. I bet if we could get about 10 or more people the whole thing can be done in under one month (if not less).

Anyway, who's with me on this one? I'm dead serious about this, too. Let's crack this stone with combining resources and actually solving the problem. Or not, up to you. PM me if you are in and we can set up a work group online somewhere to share the findings and coordinate the work. I will take care of all the logistics if necessary.

If no one is up for this I'm still game to discuss this thing, but I think speculations are the best we can get.

 

[ed2funy]

I will love to see your work Net.

;)

 

lol..jk..

 

I would, but I am not very good at reading through to nit pick.

[Sharaman]

@Netslider - you're assuming that Brandon has read the series umpteen times, trawled the boards continuously and has an infallible memory. On the basis of his Q&As and his candid uncertainty about things like TP use, strength of Cyndane, etc., his fallback to MAFO in many cases, this is doubtful.

I'd say there is a lot of "fuzz" in the statement.

The Big Unnoticed ---  comes up somewhere in Book 4-6 first and it has been referenced later as well is the way I'd interpret the statement. Also BS doesn't think it's been discussed much on the Net. At least, it has been discussed less than Asmo's death, which is probably the most discussed issue in the series.

Which leaves sleuths a lot of data to ream through.

 

 

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

i really dont think the BUT is the song, or song related. what exactly do we know about the song, and the talent of seed singing.

 

1.requires ogier, nym and aiel or people with the "Voice", but from the one sane glimps into the AoL, its aiel that have the voice.

 

2.the current travelling folks are searching for what they call the song, and from their history, we know this started as a SMALL group of aiel looking for the old days when people respected and sought out aiel singing. after 3000 years of recruiting tinkers from non aiel stock, it can be assumed that the bloodlines have become so mingled, that the ability in all probability has been lost to them.

 

3.the aiel chiefs and wise ones already know about the singing, and the travelling people, and havent told them about it. nor would they, as they see the travelling as "Lost", and not even deserving of speaking to, let alone telling them big secrets from theyre past.

 

4. "the dragon is connected to the land and the land linked to the dragon" ok, maybe not a word perfect qoute, but im working from memory here. we know that the crop spoilage etc was down to this connection between rand and the land, will it not return to normal when he does?

 

5.the crops were failing in the eye of the world as well, and was corrected without the need for singing. it returned due to a victory over the dark, and pressure coming off of rand(thought hed killed the DO).

 

6. with all thats coming up in the next 2 books, all that stuff that needs resolving, and on top of all that, resolving the most unimportant thing in t5he series? id rather it was cut if it was the plan to wrap it up this way. there really is more important stuff to sort out before the end than this, it can all be sorted out differently. besides, even if the song was returned to the tinkers, do you think theyd know or care what it was. after 3000 years of travelling, i doubt the song is actually a song anymore to them, but the ideal of freedom and peace, kinda like a metaphor for their existance, other than affecting main characters in positive ways.

[NetSlider]

Well, I thought I'd make an offer. I'm just getting frustrated a bit with this thing and know that I dont have enough time to do this by my self (plus it is a lot more fun in the group) :). And if I would take on this by myself my wife would probably leave my ass the other members of my family would defenatly commit me after wards. Well, the offer still stands. :)

[Nethran Thaimal]

"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

Quote from book 6, but we wee it again a couple times. Not exactly unnoticed....but meh.

 

But this:

4. "the dragon is connected to the land and the land linked to the dragon" ok, maybe not a word perfect qoute, but im working from memory here. we know that the crop spoilage etc was down to this connection between rand and the land, will it not return to normal when he does?

made me think of it.

 

Belief and order give strength. We know from Rand that the quote has to do with the seals on the Dark One's prison, so obviously Chaos weakens the seals.  But Belief?  In what, that the Dragon will save them?  If the crops refusing to grow(the land being connected to the Dragon and all) is Rand's fault, but also the Dark One's(as seems logical, to me at least), then it would make sense that Rand needs support for the land to live and to keep the seals from weakening further.  If that makes sense.  It does in my head, but that means little.

 

Sorry for jumping in.  And I apologize if this has been brought up.

[Shazzai]

Hmm...what is this "a treasure perhaps as great as the bowl?" And how does the part "...find the one who is no longer." Fits with the bowl of winds and Mat? Does anyone has any idea?

 

Isn't that treasure the Kin?  Imagine the BA in control of the Kin.

[clu7ch]

Lews Therin lived for many many a year. It was 50 years between him dumping Lanfear and the war of power. I doubt Beings he was in the prime of his years during his screwing the daughter of the night, that he was a disheveled old man during the WoP, assuming as much, Men AS should gain the ageless look. Why hasn't Rand gained this, and Logain, and Taim? Or any male forsaken, they haven't been described as ageless.

[Sharaman]

@clu7ch - they all need an appointment with the Oath Rod.

[clu7ch]

thanks for the heads up ^^

[nrm5021]

I have tried to read all 127 pages of this thread, but ive only made it to about 30 so i dont know if it has been discussed yet. but what about aviendha's spin on the gateway weave. i seem to recall that she thought she could make a gateway much larger than the ones that the current weave allow. this would allow for more forces to be transported faster, and would aid in the last battle i would assume. just wondering, and wanted to put it out there to be debated or debunked.

[Shazzai]

Ok...  I just read this ENTIRE thread.

 

My best guess for something that's a minor detail that is comparable to the Mistborn clue and appears in books 4-6 and gets mentioned in "books and books" afterwards is ignoring heat and cold.  Without further reference to MB, that is just the closest match for *feel*.

 

I do not know what possible consequences could result from it though.

 

Aes Sedai, Asha'man, Rand, and the Forsaken know how to do it.  Other channelers do not.  I don't think Aiel know the trick; from Aviendha's thoughts about wetlanders in TGS I get the feeling that Aiel just don't let it show that they're uncomfortable.

 

Here are my brief thoughts about it.  Channelers still get cold or hot, and their bodies can still suffer damage from the extremes.  They are just capable of ignoring the discomfort associated with temperature.  I think channelers are probably capable of concentrating in such a way that they cease to experience pain.

 

The biggest application of this is with regard to damane.  If channelers can learn how to completely shutoff the sensation of pain, the a'dam will stop working.  The a'dam work by inflicting unbelievable agony on damane until they comply with the sul'dams' wishes.  I think damane capable of ignoring pain would also be able to channel just fine while on a leash.  Egwene was capable of channeling while on an incomplete leash, it was just very painful for her.

[lillcheese]

Channeling without a sul'dam causes nausea, not pain.  Touching the a'dam with the power causes pain i think.

 

If the trick could be used to ignore the pain & remove the a'dam, why couldn't Moghedian do it?

[Sharaman]

No, Avienda has a problem with the normal Gate weave because she found a different way to make a Gate the first time she did it in panic and then forgot how she Wove. Now like most second weaves, her Gates are not quite as the first one she made.

 

She thinks that, although she and Elayne are approximately equally strong, Elayne can more easily make larger Gates.

It's not that Avi can weave an extraordinarily large gate with either her first, or second weave.

 

(Off-topic, there may be ways to tie off a Gate safely and hence, for a channeler to open many gates simultaneously, thus multiplying Travelling efficiency with large forces. The odd thing is, we've never seen this - not from Ashaman, nor AS or even Rand himself, though he's clever with finding ways to use channeling. Only chap who did tie off was Sammael who loosely tied the gates he wove for the Shaido so they closed unpredictably and Rand-Logain tied off deathgates loosely of course.)