The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Mr Ares]

I'm not saying the two dresses don't look the same, and it's not at all clear that that is the case.

Because the descriptions don't match and they were the only evidence you had. Why would Graendal be doing this in the first place? There is not so much as a hint that this is Graendal. This woman has no more attention paid to her than any other background character in the same chapter. Why should we accpet there is something sinister about this woman? You are reaching with this. And it isn't relevant to this thread anyway, as it couldn't be the unnoticed thing. It only happens in one book, and we have no reason to accept it as Graendal, so there is no reason why it should have been overlooked.

Yes, the entirely subjective part of the descriptions (which I have already addressed) don't match... That's your sole reason for dismissing it? It was accepted when first proposed and discussed over on wotmania.

 

Two supposedly different characters. Both with jewelled rings in each finger. Both with blue domani dresses. Both of which are very rare by themselves, and as a combination are unique to these two supposedly different characters. Both appearing in consecutive chapters. In a book written by a master of hiding things in plain sight.

I don't care what the people over at WOTmania accepeted. If there is evdience, provide, and a theory merits shall be discussed. The dress descriptions not matching alone is enough to scuppoer the theory. And this is not hidden in plain sight, it is a background character in one scene doing nothing suspicious with nothing special about her and no attention being brought to her compared to any other background character throughout the series turning out to be Graendal deciding to wear a similar dress and spy on Mat for no reason. This theory is absurd. There is not one thing going for it. Nothing at all.

[Terez]

I suspect people are dramatically overestimating the amount of time that Brandon spends reading the forums. Just because something has been discussed doesn't mean that Brandon has seen the discussion. My guess is that we should probably only exclude very major topics -- asmodean, min's prophecies, so forth -- from consideration for that reason.

He's had his assistant searching the forums for old discussions, from what I understand, and they haven't found anything.

[Vulgir]

So if Graendel and this women are indeed the same person where does it go? What does it matter? They look similar...then...what? What came of it, what will come of it. Even if this women is graendel whats the point?

[Paedraig Gaidin]

I don't recall, but have we ever found out what happened to Moiraine when she went to Rhuidean?

[Terez]

I don't recall, but have we ever found out what happened to Moiraine when she went to Rhuidean?

Yeah, she went to the rings ter'angreal and saw all her possible futures, remembering only the bit about fighting Lanfear at the docks of Cairhien and her eventual rescue by Mat and Thom.

[jemron]

Also, I just re-read the chapter where Mat goes into the first door frame ter'angreal in the Stone of Tear in TSR, and I realized we still don't know what the Snakes told Moiraine.  She asked three questions, and as far as I can tell, none of the questions she asked or the answers she received have been revealed.  Is that right?

 

I wonder what she asked and what she learned???

[lordofsoup]

Also even if they did do that, Herid Fel has said that somewhere along the line the prison has to be whole again like it was before the bore was drilled.

 

so they get all the strongest channelers in the world and link them all together using all the argreal and saangreal in the world and they balefire lanfear back as far as possible hoping that it is enough to erase her back before she drilled the bore

[jemron]

Also even if they did do that, Herid Fel has said that somewhere along the line the prison has to be whole again like it was before the bore was drilled.

 

so they get all the strongest channelers in the world and link them all together using all the argreal and saangreal in the world and they balefire lanfear back as far as possible hoping that it is enough to erase her back before she drilled the bore

 

Though I'm guessing this is a joke, if I take it seriously I don't think all the OP in the world could BF somebody back that far.  Even all the balefire that Rand channeled with the CK at Graendal's palace only erased time back a few hours at most, according to BS.

[Elros]

I checked and this isn't on e-wot but somewhere in books 4-6 I think there is mention of LTT rediscovering sword fighting.  It had been a forgotten art.  I think this somehow ties to Callandor or Justice or Excallibur, or that the Pattern ties the way of the sword to the Dragon.

[NetSlider]

I checked and this isn't on e-wot but somewhere in books 4-6 I think there is mention of LTT rediscovering sword fighting.  It had been a forgotten art.  I think this somehow ties to Callandor or Justice or Excallibur, or that the Pattern ties the way of the sword to the Dragon.

 

actually, it's at the end of the DR that this is being mentioned before moraine shows up and BF the bad dude.

[Goatherder]

Has this been discussed elsewhere???

 

"In book 4 (I think) the wise ones claims that entering the world of dreams in flesh is evil when they try to teach Egwene. This is not explained further and we have seen Rand entering in flesh at least 3 times and Egwene at least ones (going to Salidar). I have not seen any theories about why this is evil. My own theory is that since only the creator, the dark one and the world of dreams are the constants, then the world of dreams is somehow essential in keeping the dark one away from reality, and making a "hole" in it is therefore beneficial for the dark one.

 

I believe that this could be the big thing first mentioned in book 4-6 and has been repeated now and then without much attention."

[1eejit]

I'm not saying the two dresses don't look the same, and it's not at all clear that that is the case.

Because the descriptions don't match and they were the only evidence you had. Why would Graendal be doing this in the first place? There is not so much as a hint that this is Graendal. This woman has no more attention paid to her than any other background character in the same chapter. Why should we accpet there is something sinister about this woman? You are reaching with this. And it isn't relevant to this thread anyway, as it couldn't be the unnoticed thing. It only happens in one book, and we have no reason to accept it as Graendal, so there is no reason why it should have been overlooked.

Yes, the entirely subjective part of the descriptions (which I have already addressed) don't match... That's your sole reason for dismissing it? It was accepted when first proposed and discussed over on wotmania.

 

Two supposedly different characters. Both with jewelled rings in each finger. Both with blue domani dresses. Both of which are very rare by themselves, and as a combination are unique to these two supposedly different characters. Both appearing in consecutive chapters. In a book written by a master of hiding things in plain sight.

I don't care what the people over at WOTmania accepeted. If there is evdience, provide, and a theory merits shall be discussed. The dress descriptions not matching alone is enough to scuppoer the theory. And this is not hidden in plain sight, it is a background character in one scene doing nothing suspicious with nothing special about her and no attention being brought to her compared to any other background character throughout the series turning out to be Graendal deciding to wear a similar dress and spy on Mat for no reason. This theory is absurd. There is not one thing going for it. Nothing at all.

You're being incredibly narrowminded to pass it off as sheer coincidence, but whatever makes you happy.

If it were the dress alone, or the rings alone I wouldn't even mention it. The two combined, with the extremely close appearances in book terms makes it 99% sure to be an intentional clue from RJ imo.

 

Oh and if I'm right it's a textbook example of what "hiding something in plain sight" is, so the phrase was used accurately. -.-

[maradon]

A thread came up on the Rand plotline thread talking about Galad being Rands half brothe and how it could be his (Galads) blood spilt on Shayol Ghul and not Rands. I remember Rand first realising this when talking to Dyelin in LoC Chapter 16, and finding out Shaiel was actually Tigraine. I have not seen this topic talked about much on the forum, it could be important and obv occured in between the 4th and 6th book, however I can't realy remember it being repeated through the books. Anyway, just thought it could be another posibility for this thread.

[ed2funy]

I don't recall, but have we ever found out what happened to Moiraine when she went to Rhuidean?

Yeah, she went to the rings ter'angreal and saw all her possible futures, remembering only the bit about fighting Lanfear at the docks of Cairhien and her eventual rescue by Mat and Thom.

 

yea, but who says that is all she saw..there might have been other things/clues (unless..i think the letter she wrote said it all stopped there....but it wouldn't..because she knew she would send Mat to rescue her....hmmmm...)

 

Also, I just re-read the chapter where Mat goes into the first door frame ter'angreal in the Stone of Tear in TSR, and I realized we still don't know what the Snakes told Moiraine.  She asked three questions, and as far as I can tell, none of the questions she asked or the answers she received have been revealed.  Is that right?

 

I wonder what she asked and what she learned???

 

interesting.....

 

 

P.S. I don't think either of these is the Big Thing.....

[Ashaman Kovan]

makes it 99% sure to be an intentional clue from RJ imo.

 

What process did you use to come to that conclusion??

[ed2funy]

I have to agree with the skeptics...

 

there is a small chance....

though it is very unlikely....

 

 

like someone said.....what does it matter...what would it do to the story?

[ubute]

To me the biggest unanswered question other than who killed Asmo is what did the old scholar find out that he was going to tell Rand b4 he got killed? I keep expecting Min to work it out as she reads his books.

[Rand Skywalker]

I think it's important to note that Brandon did not seem to remember exactly when this "big thing" occurred/started, and only said that it was sometime during 4-6.  This, to me, strongly discourages events that are easily identified with a certain book, like Rhuidean in 4, Moiraine/Lanfear/Doorway in 5, and the Black Tower and Taim in 6.  These are just a few of the events that would, presumably, be easy for someone steeped in tWoT like Sanderson to pin-point (I know there are some that know the books inside and out better than he does).

 

Because of this, I think the "big thing" is more-likely difficult to identify with a specific book.  When exactly was the "danger of entering TAR in the flesh" introduced?  And, even if you know, then is that really easily identifiable with a specific volume?  I think we should be keeping this criteria in mind: The "thing" should be difficult to place in 4-6 because it is (probably) not directly tied to the main action.

[Jong]

To expand on my earlier post...

 

The rebuilding of Manethren started in Book 4 and in Book 6 we see Perrin as Lord for the first time. This is a continuing process as Perrin has gained more lands and brought more people under his rule. People are emigrating to the two rivers, 1000s of rescued gaishain, etc...

 

Everyone assumes that Perrin and Elayne will coexist peacfully. However that seems wishful thinking and does not conform to the political realities. Elayne has just been elected as Queen. Her first order of business will be to cement her control of Andor. She has previously said that she was not content to let the Two Rivers go their own way. And two rivers independence could certainly undermine her authority. If one outlying lord in a forgotten back water is seen declaring independence what's keeping others from doing the same?

 

Further, any remaining Andoran lords or ladies who are not content with Elayne, especially those that are located in regions geographically contiguous with the two rivers or Ghealdan may defect to Perrin and Manethren which would almost certainly force her hand. If I were interested in letting the lord of chaos rule, that's one thing that I would have on the list.

 

 

 

[Jong]

I think it's important to note that Brandon did not seem to remember exactly when this "big thing" occurred/started, and only said that it was sometime during 4-6.  This, to me, strongly discourages events that are easily identified with a certain book, like Rhuidean in 4, Moiraine/Lanfear/Doorway in 5, and the Black Tower and Taim in 6.  These are just a few of the events that would, presumably, be easy for someone steeped in tWoT like Sanderson to pin-point (I know there are some that know the books inside and out better than he does).

 

Because of this, I think the "big thing" is more-likely difficult to identify with a specific book.  When exactly was the "danger of entering TAR in the flesh" introduced?  And, even if you know, then is that really easily identifiable with a specific volume?  I think we should be keeping this criteria in mind: The "thing" should be difficult to place in 4-6 because it is (probably) not directly tied to the main action.

 

Yep. It's something that started (little noticed / unnoticed) in books 4-6 but has been progressing quietly since and is about the rear it's head.

[Calderis]

A thread came up on the Rand plotline thread talking about Galad being Rands half brothe and how it could be his (Galads) blood spilt on Shayol Ghul and not Rands. I remember Rand first realising this when talking to Dyelin in LoC Chapter 16, and finding out Shaiel was actually Tigraine. I have not seen this topic talked about much on the forum, it could be important and obv occured in between the 4th and 6th book, however I can't realy remember it being repeated through the books. Anyway, just thought it could be another posibility for this thread.

 

Yeah I brought this up on a couple of threads cause wasn't sure where to place it. Just think that for his placement in the story Galad has been exceptionally non-exceptional. I think he has a role to play and being, as far as I know, Rand's only living blood relative, and his penchant for "doing what's right" he could easily come between Rand and something deadly at TG and "the dragon's blood" would be spilled.

[mike-cook]

the undiscussed thing could be Alana's bond to Rand. I'm re-reading book 4 and in the Two Rivers Verin tells Perrin not to trust Alanna for some reason? kinda weird

[Ashaman Kovan]

the undiscussed thing could be Alana's bond to Rand. I'm re-reading book 4 and in the Two Rivers Verin tells Perrin not to trust Alanna for some reason? kinda weird

 

That isn't really weird at all. Rand is the Dragon Reborn and Alanna is Aes Sedai. It would be weird if he did trust her. Obviously there was a good reason not to right? Issue resolved.

[emyali]

Im Really sorry if it has been mentioned before,

i did read few pages from the topic and never found it mentioned

 

 

there is something always seemed to be need explanation in books 4&6, it is a tiny little thing Regarding Berelain (the first of Mayene) and the way the Wise Ones & Ruhrac treated her.

it really irritated me to great extent not knowing why they treat her like that.

i like the woman alot (one of my fav. female charachters) but it doesnt make a sense why the liked her that much once they met her.

 

 

i dont know, but when i first read the 1st post of this topic, the 1st thing jumped to my head is this thought about Berelain and the wise ones.

 

and in several of Egwene's dreams she have seen the golden hawk.. maybe we r going to finally see some more of Berelain in the next book.

 

i dont know but it seems fit to me (maybe because i so wanna see some further actions regarding Berelain)

[clu7ch]

On the topic of berelain, Min's viewing of perrin stated something to do with a falcon and a hawk. I can't remember all of it, but something about run away from the hawk or it meant death....

 

but we can rule this out completely because it's in the dragon reborn