Tuon and the Seanchan (Full Book Spoilers)

[Blademaster Tayos]

Even if Rand/Mat/Eggy don't want to go that far, if Mat knows how to wield his influence with the Seanchan to aid Rand, or Egwene or Nynaeve or Perrin, or the Two Rivers, you know he will. Just look at his past behavior.

 

This is assuming that egwene does not kill mat when she finds out he married the seanchean empress, which is a distinct possibility when you consider her attitude towards them.

[karehiro]

Even if Rand/Mat/Eggy don't want to go that far, if Mat knows how to wield his influence with the Seanchan to aid Rand, or Egwene or Nynaeve or Perrin, or the Two Rivers, you know he will. Just look at his past behavior.

 

This is assuming that egwene does not kill mat when she finds out he married the seanchean empress, which is a distinct possibility when you consider her attitude towards them.

 

I'd seriously like to see her try :D

 

It's actually pretty refreshing seeing a (new) powerful main character like Tuon not acting subservient to the Aes Sedai nor recognizing or acknowledging their "right to power".  I'm actually rooting for her to end up on top when it's all said and done; after all, the time of Aes Sedai being on top is now over, with Seanchan, Asha'man, and the Aiel/Wise Ones now in the world.

[coteaz]

Aes Sedai need to be taken down a peg or 2 by the seanchan, they need to return to their roots of being servants of all, not leaders of all.

[karehiro]

Aes Sedai need to be taken down a peg or 2 by the seanchan, they need to return to their roots of being servants of all, not leaders of all.

 

Indeed, I don't think they've been really useful to the world or living up to their ideals since the Trolloc Wars.  They seem to have a sense of entitlement as if they're the ones who actually saved the world and thus they know better than everyone else what to do, and how to rule.

 

Really there are precious few current Aes Sedai who actually live up to their ideal, their original purpose, and their predecessors in the Age of Legends: The Queen of Manetheren was one of them, and so was Moiraine.

 

I'm glad the Aes Sedai are no longer on top since they've lost their way for a while now and didn't really deserve it.  At least now they have equals in the Asha'man, the Aiel/Wiseones, and possible superiors in the Seanchan.

[coteaz]

it will be interesting to see the kind of friction that will exist between Tuon and Egwene when they finally meet. Will Egwene demand the release of all collared Aes Sedai, or will Tuon attempt to collar Egwene and all the Aes Sedai regardless of what she knows about 'marath'damane' now.

[stoper]

I'm glad the Aes Sedai are no longer on top since they've lost their way for a while now and didn't really deserve it.  At least now they have equals in the Asha'man, the Aiel/Wiseones, and possible superiors in the Seanchan.

A big part of the the Asha'man are darkfriends now. Wiseones didn't look like they care about "being on top". And for what kind of superiority in the Seanchan are you takling about?! A bunch of fools, their empire will fail as soon as they realize that all sul'dam and their own empress can channel. They'll either change their opinion towards all damane or towards Tuon and all sul'dam. I just can't see middle ground. But then again, a bunch of fools like them may find some compromise, who knows...

[FanoLan]

I'm glad the Aes Sedai are no longer on top since they've lost their way for a while now and didn't really deserve it.  At least now they have equals in the Asha'man, the Aiel/Wiseones, and possible superiors in the Seanchan.

A big part of the the Asha'man are darkfriends now. Wiseones didn't look like they care about "being on top". And for what kind of superiority in the Seanchan are you takling about?! A bunch of fools, their empire will fail as soon as they realize that all sul'dam and their own empress can channel. They'll either change their opinion towards all damane or towards Tuon and all sul'dam. I just can't see middle ground. But then again, a bunch of fools like them may find some compromise, who knows...

 

Maybe even both, "Exalted shall be cast down, ..."

[jemron]

Aes Sedai need to be taken down a peg or 2 by the seanchan, they need to return to their roots of being servants of all, not leaders of all.

 

Yes, but not slaves of Seanchan either.

[Muad Cheade]

Aes Sedai need to be taken down a peg or 2 by the seanchan, they need to return to their roots of being servants of all, not leaders of all.

 

Asha'man need to learn that they are not only meant to kill yet that is unlikely, so you can't expect the Aes Sedai to change overnight.

[Kelitor]

Even if Rand/Mat/Eggy don't want to go that far, if Mat knows how to wield his influence with the Seanchan to aid Rand, or Egwene or Nynaeve or Perrin, or the Two Rivers, you know he will. Just look at his past behavior.

 

This is assuming that egwene does not kill mat when she finds out he married the seanchean empress, which is a distinct possibility when you consider her attitude towards them.

 

Um, your forgetting the little inconsequential bit about Egwene swearing the Three Oaths.  ;)

 

[coteaz]

She will however try and use mat as leverage against tuon.

[karehiro]

I'm glad the Aes Sedai are no longer on top since they've lost their way for a while now and didn't really deserve it.  At least now they have equals in the Asha'man, the Aiel/Wiseones, and possible superiors in the Seanchan.

A big part of the the Asha'man are darkfriends now. Wiseones didn't look like they care about "being on top". And for what kind of superiority in the Seanchan are you takling about?! A bunch of fools, their empire will fail as soon as they realize that all sul'dam and their own empress can channel. They'll either change their opinion towards all damane or towards Tuon and all sul'dam. I just can't see middle ground. But then again, a bunch of fools like them may find some compromise, who knows...

 

A big part of the Aes Sedai were Darkfriends, not only that but they have splinters all over the place (Aes Sedai with Rand, the multiple groups sent to the Black Tower, ones captured by Seanchan, etc.), not to mention they were recently weakened (and have Mesaana in their midst), so I'd say the Aes Sedai have more problems than the Black Tower comparatively.  Not only that we already know in the prophecies that the Asha'man are meant to equal the Aes Sedai soon (if not already), and that Logain as a leader of Asha'man is meant to achieve glory.  So their future is pretty much assured.

 

The Wise Ones won't let Aes Sedai walk all over them as they did in the past since they no longer feel as if they carry toh towards them.  These new attitudes are already reflected by the Wise Ones, and they see every new Aes Sedai with disdain.  They definitely will never put Aes Sedai on a pedestal anymore.

 

Seanchan are an entire empire.  Not only that but they're an empire who has no respect for Aes Sedai, regardless of whatever plays out with the sul'dam, or however they treat channelers.  Unlike other monarchies, it won't have veneration for the Aes Sedai power or influence, and they definitely won't put Aes Sedai before any other type of citizen. 

 

I think it's safe to say that the era of Aes Sedai dominance is now dead.  They won't ever regain their previous unquestioned dominance, and there will be groups equal if not above them from now on.

[Crael123]

I really want to see more of the Bloodknives they were really awesome. hopefully they will do more damage than the one gareth and Suian ran into. hopefully we will see more of those Ter'angreal that they wear.

[Dunedain Fal]

I don't think that the influence of Aes Sedai will decline.  Egwene as the Amylrin would see to that.  Besides there were foreshadowings in the series that Egwene would be the most powerful Amyrlin that ever "ruled."

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't think that the influence of Aes Sedai will decline.  Egwene as the Amylrin would see to that.  Besides there were foreshadowings in the series that Egwene would be the most powerful Amyrlin that ever "ruled."

 

Maybe so, but how does that equate to being the boss of everybody like Elaida and most Amyrlin's before her have tried to be.

 

Ultimately, persuasion is more powerful than coercion.  We have to hope that Egwene achieves her power/influence by learning to listen and to serve rather than to determine and command.

[DemandredFO]

The problem with all the channelling groups is that the all have part of what Aes Sedai really means but miss the rest by miles.

AS will see their power decline in some respects, "the guardians balance the servants".

[karehiro]

I don't think that the influence of Aes Sedai will decline.  Egwene as the Amylrin would see to that.  Besides there were foreshadowings in the series that Egwene would be the most powerful Amyrlin that ever "ruled."

 

I agree.  The influence of Aes won't decline.

 

That's because it already has declined.  Significantly.

 

It's different from saying they'll regain their former dominance, which they won't, since other groups with as much influence/power have now sprung up, and the status quo is now irrevocably altered.  And many no longer put Aes Sedai on a pedestal as they once did.

 

Being the most powerful Amyrlin doesn't equate to "the Aes Sedai will be the most powerful".  It equates to being the most powerful Amyrlin. 

[seraphim]

Egeanin/Leilwin is just a soldier that has about one year's worth of experience as Low Blood.  She was the first to figure out Sul'dam could channel among the Seanchan (that we know of) but everybody except the Seanchan know that now, and I don't see how Egeanin would be of any particular help convincing them of it.  I don't see how she can possibly help Egwene or Rand at all.  She's considered a traitor by the Seanchan and will carry no weight there, and I don't see that she has any special knowledge of the Seanchan that would lead to any kind of peace. 

 

I can't think of a reason, therefore, that she'd be in a position to offer any particular help to Egwene.

 

A personal bone of contention- Why would the folks in Randland not use the captured Suldam, Damane, and other expatriots of Senchean for maps, social structure, politics, and even more explicit prophecies?

[Crossroad]

I'd like to know how Strong the one power is in Tuon, could be very interesting.

[DemandredFO]

My guess is she's probably either like Morgase, who can barely channel or as strong or stronger than Elayne.

This won't happen, I don't think, but it would be interesting to see the Empress throw some fireballs around.  Kinda as out there as the half-sister of the Lord Captain Commander being a powerful Aes Sedai... Oh wait, she is

[Sharaman]

From what we've seen of other sul'dam, they appear to be like any bunch of non-sparkers who can be taught. Some, like Sharina, may have Nynaeve-level potential. But most will be weaker than the average sparker. Incidentally since the damane are all sparkers and sparkers are generally stronger than non-sparkers, the average damane is probably stronger than the average AS.

I think Morgause is so weak, she couldn't even have handled an A'dam. Suroth didn't bother to collar her and the Shaido WO didn't bother to shield her since she was so weak and hit-and-miss.

Tuon is definitely stronger than that since she's a proficient suldam - how strong she could be, is a question-mark and may never be resolved. Anyhow not before TG, even if she's brutally forced.

The Lord Captain Commander has an interesting family. A 1/2 bro and 1/2 sis who can both channel plus an uncle who can wander around in TAR and turn into somebody else at will.

 

 

[lordofsoup]

sorry if this has been mentioned, but why dident Tuon tell Rand that she was Married to Mat.  it would have made everything so much easier, and Rand would not have been tempted to burn the world away, cuz of them. 

 

U also forget that the Lord Captain Commander is also Rand's half brother as well

[Duneflayer]

thats something i'm dying to find out

what part is Galad going to play in the coming book

[Mortimer]

Tuon didn't tell Rand because she hasn't told anyone else on her side yet, and their meeting was very public.

 

My opinion on Tuon is that she will indeed channel in a public way, and this will ultimately lead to a working relationship with the randland channelers.

[Firebird]

My opinion on Tuon is that she will indeed channel in a public way, and this will ultimately lead to a working relationship with the randland channelers.

You know, I'm not sure that Tuon will channel. There have been many of her POVs where she shows nothing but contempt for channellers, and there was also this quote from KoD:

 

"I am nothing like these women, Toy. Nothing like them. Perhaps I could learn, but I choose not to, just as I choose not to steal or commit murder. That makes all the difference."

 

I'm not certain how things will work out long term with the Seanchan and their suldams, but I think Tuon would need to undergo a pretty radical change of heart before she would happily tolerate any unleashed Aes Sedai (or other channeller). It's possible that crazy ta'veren effects may cause her to have a brain fart, but I think she's too strong a character to do a complete U-turn. I think that what may happen is there will be an agreement between her and Rand that the Seanchan won't collar any more channellers from Randland (at least not until after the Last Battle). That's my theory anyway  ;D