What is Faile's Broken Crown?

[Xarra]

Sorry if I'm being dim, but I've seen it mentioned once or twice, but never any actual explaination - does it mean Faile's in line for the throne of Saldaea or something? (I'd assume she is as she's Tenobia's cousin...) Or is it something to do with Malkier?

[ErikTheBald]

AT THE BEGINNING OF ACOS, ONE OF THE BORDERLAND RULERS MENTIONS THAT TENOBIA IS NOT MARRIED SO SUCESSION FOR THE THRONE WOULD GO TO HER UNCLE (DAVRAM BASHERE0 OR HIS HEIR, FAILE. 

 

I DO NOT THINK A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF THE BROKEN CROWN HAS BEEN PRESENTED.

[richnewton82]

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Edited January 13, 2019 by richnewton82

[Elgee]

I can't recall us ever seeing an explanation of why it is called the Broken Crown. Would be quite interesting to hear/see.

[Mr. Micawber]

AT THE BEGINNING OF ACOS, ONE OF THE BORDERLAND RULERS MENTIONS THAT TENOBIA IS NOT MARRIED SO SUCESSION FOR THE THRONE WOULD GO TO HER UNCLE (DAVRAM BASHERE0 OR HIS HEIR, FAILE. 

 

I DO NOT THINK A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF THE BROKEN CROWN HAS BEEN PRESENTED.

 

I didn't know the Dark One fancied himself an expert on the Saldaean succession.

[BrainFireBob]

Sorry if I'm being dim, but I've seen it mentioned once or twice, but never any actual explaination - does it mean Faile's in line for the throne of Saldaea or something? (I'd assume she is as she's Tenobia's cousin...) Or is it something to do with Malkier?

 

 

The crown of Saldaea is the Broken Crown. I believe it's mentioned in the BWB, or one of the glossaries.

 

Tenobia has no heirs of her body.

 

Davram is her closest relative, and therefore her heir.

 

Faile is Davram's heir. If Saldaean law does not allow for male succession, Faile herself is Tenobia's heir.

[Amayahoshi]

Faile is Davram's heir. If Saldaean law does not allow for male succession, Faile herself is Tenobia's heir.

 

There's a theory that eventually Perrin will end up akin to Saldaean royalty through Faile, which seems quite plausable - all to do with Min's viewings.

 

Perrin's viewing of "A wolf, and a broken crown, and trees flowering all around him."

 

Coupled with Bashere's viewing being "And there's something...dark...in the images I saw around Lord Davram." Which doesn't sound particularly pleasant... It could of course be anything though!

 

As to the story behind the Broken Crown... I have no idea, and have always wondered about the story behind it.

 

 

[Mr. Micawber]

Sorry if I'm being dim, but I've seen it mentioned once or twice, but never any actual explaination - does it mean Faile's in line for the throne of Saldaea or something? (I'd assume she is as she's Tenobia's cousin...) Or is it something to do with Malkier?

 

 

The crown of Saldaea is the Broken Crown. I believe it's mentioned in the BWB, or one of the glossaries.

 

Tenobia has no heirs of her body.

 

Davram is her closest relative, and therefore her heir.

 

Faile is Davram's heir. If Saldaean law does not allow for male succession, Faile herself is Tenobia's heir.

 

We know that Fail has sisters, but I don't think we've heard about any brothers. We also know that Tenobia succeeded her father.

 

We know this because Muad Cheade was the Marshal General of Saldaea under Tenobia's father.

 

Thus, at the strictest, Saldaea has a male-preference cognatic primogeniture succession. However, my personal feeling is that eldest child inherits, making it absolute (aka equal) primogeniture.

 

Because Ethenielle is queen of Kandor, and her son, the one not killed in New Spring because he was in the south with his mother *because he was heir*, I think that the Borderlands, in order to prevent succession crises use absolute primogeniture, because the nature of the Blightborder is such that the heir needs to be trained from birth far more than any other country's heir.

 

This excludes Malkier, which seems to resemble the succession for the Holy Roman Empire, since it's elective - because the highest lords have to cast their votes - but with a preference in favor of the child of the previous monarch, since everyone basically acknowledges Lan even in New Spring when the lords or at least their heirs are still around. It's unclear whether Malkier ever had a queen regnant, as opposed to a co-ruler.

[ErikTheBald]

Sorry guys, I wasn't shouting, I don't work so good before my first cup of coffee.

[WWWwombat]

It could be just the name of the crown or it could mean that the throne of Saldaea alternates between two branches of the royal family.

[ErikTheBald]

And the Answer is found in the thoughts of Davram Bahsere in Crossroads of Twilight

 

He is considering Tenobia and why she has come south with a large force of Saldeans.

 

But he knew her; he had taught her to ride, watched her grow up, presented her the Broken Crown when she took the throne.

 

How it got broken?  Anyone's guess.

[Muad Cheade]

As previously stated, the Broken Crown is indeed the monarch of Saldea's crown.

 

Perhaps, the name is referring to the physical attribute of the crown or it may be a possible reference to something else in Saldea's history. After all, the crown of the king of Illian was called the Laurel Crown before Rand became king. Now it is the Crown of Swords.

 

Min had a viewing about Davram Bashere. Something to the effect of "I see something dark around him. If he dies or turns against you..." However, the latter seems unlikely as Bashere is one of Rand's most trusted advisers and he is obviously not a Darkfriend as his wife was nearly killed because he had hidden a seal to the  Dark One's prison.

 

The remaining conclusion is that Tenobia dies and Davram dies also, or Tenobia and Davram both abdicate (or any variation of the two) and Faile becomes ruler of Saldea. In the event of that happening, Faile would be ruler of Saldea and Perrin would be her consort.

 

And yes, it seems the eldest child inherits as Tenobia's father ruled before her and Faile tells Perrin about her past and why she ran away in TSR (her two older brothers died, leaving her to assume the dutie of learning how estates are run, etc)

[Beren]

My guess is that at least Davram dies. I don't know about Tenobia.

[ErikTheBald]

There is something dark in Bashere's future.  Tenobia will have him beheaded for Treason against the crown.  After that, something will happen to her, likely killed in battle since she is so reckless.

[mb]

The crown of Saldaea is the Broken Crown. I believe it's mentioned in the BWB, or one of the glossaries.

Not in the guide; I just checked.

Do not recall it being told in the glossaries.

Scene where Perrin and Bashere meet (Lord of Chaos Chapter 46), Bashere mentions it.  Elyas mentions it when he & Perrin reunite (Path of Daggers Chapter 10).  Other than those, Perrin asks Faile about it after returning from Dumai's Wells (Crown of Swords Chapter 5 or 6).

 

My guess is that at least Davram dies. I don't know about Tenobia.

Both dying, both abdicating, or one dying and other abdicating; those would be the only ways for Faile to get the crown.

 

[Mr Ares]

We know that Fail has sisters, but I don't think we've heard about any brothers.

We have. She has a younger brother called Maedin. Possibly others. Her older brothers are dead. Thus it would appear to have equal primogeniture.

[WesW]

In Chapter 5 of Crossroads of Twilight, Perrin says that Sebban Balwer has explained the Broken Crown to him. But if so, that explanation took place outside of the books. I don't remember that particular conversation anywhere.

[Sabio]

The companion says the Broken Crown is "The crown of the ruler of Saldaea".

[mb]

In Chapter 5 of Crossroads of Twilight, Perrin says that Sebban Balwer has explained the Broken Crown to him. But if so, that explanation took place outside of the books. I don't remember that particular conversation anywhere.

the scene tells that it was something Elyas let slip.  the scene tells nothing else about the Broken Crown.

[Orderofolde]

 

 

Sorry if I'm being dim, but I've seen it mentioned once or twice, but never any actual explaination - does it mean Faile's in line for the throne of Saldaea or something? (I'd assume she is as she's Tenobia's cousin...) Or is it something to do with Malkier?

 

The crown of Saldaea is the Broken Crown. I believe it's mentioned in the BWB, or one of the glossaries.

 

Tenobia has no heirs of her body.

 

Davram is her closest relative, and therefore her heir.

 

Faile is Davram's heir. If Saldaean law does not allow for male succession, Faile herself is Tenobia's heir.

 

We know that Fail has sisters, but I don't think we've heard about any brothers. We also know that Tenobia succeeded her father.

 

We know this because Muad Cheade was the Marshal General of Saldaea under Tenobia's father.

 

Thus, at the strictest, Saldaea has a male-preference cognatic primogeniture succession. However, my personal feeling is that eldest child inherits, making it absolute (aka equal) primogeniture.

 

Because Ethenielle is queen of Kandor, and her son, the one not killed in New Spring because he was in the south with his mother *because he was heir*, I think that the Borderlands, in order to prevent succession crises use absolute primogeniture, because the nature of the Blightborder is such that the heir needs to be trained from birth far more than any other country's heir.

 

This excludes Malkier, which seems to resemble the succession for the Holy Roman Empire, since it's elective - because the highest lords have to cast their votes - but with a preference in favor of the child of the previous monarch, since everyone basically acknowledges Lan even in New Spring when the lords or at least their heirs are still around. It's unclear whether Malkier ever had a queen regnant, as opposed to a co-ruler.

 

She has brothers.  She ran away from home because her two older brothers supposed to inherit the estates both died, and her younger brother was only 9 or so and Davram took him to the blight and she felt slighted so she ran off to become a hunter for the horn.

[Mikescfan]

On 10/26/2009 at 11:20 AM, BrainFireBob said:

 

 

The crown of Saldaea is the Broken Crown. I believe it's mentioned in the BWB, or one of the glossaries.

 

Tenobia has no heirs of her body.

 

Davram is her closest relative, and therefore her heir.

 

Faile is Davram's heir. If Saldaean law does not allow for male succession, Faile herself is Tenobia's heir.

Faile and Perrin meet with Elayne to discuss the Red Eagle banner, the wolf banner, and to address the rebellion out of the Two Rivers. Elayne asks Faile where in line she is to the Saldean thrown. Faile informs Elayne on where she currently sits in succession to the Saldean thrown which is second in line behind only her father. I think if you take into account Tonobia's requirements for a husband, the most logical outcome is for Faile or a child of hers to eventually inherit the crown. I completely agree that the crown of Saldaea is the "Broken Crown" due to these and more bizarre circumstances involved. (Saldeans... a proud and unique people) lol

 

On 6/8/2017 at 4:50 PM, Sabio said:

The companion says the Broken Crown is "The crown of the ruler of Saldaea".

 

[Denver Steve]

 Tenobia gets killed in MoL. She’s in the middle of the battle and gets swallowed by Trollic Hordes.

 

the Darkness around bashere is the Compulsion used on him(and all the great generals) to sway the last battle in the shadows favor.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Denver Steve
Typo

[mistborn82]

Maybe if the TV series goes that far, they'll give viewers an explanation for why it's the broken crown as there has to be a story for it's name. My money is it's something to do with the fallen nations of the Trolloc Wars.

[Sabio]

One possible reason is the companion says "Saldaea, Kandor, Arafel, Shienar. and Malkier were all provinces in the Hawkwing empire.  When it became clear the rest of the empire was splintering each of the governors took the tile of King or Queen of their former province now turned nation. "  So the broken crown could be in reference to Hawkwing's broken empire.  

 

But could just be a thing like why is the Kandor monarchs throne called the Throne of the Clouds?

[Bard29]

Perhaps the broken crown is a reference to the Borderland kingdom that Saldaea was part of when Hawkwing conquered it.