A quick-talk about Logain Ablar

[magnutz]

Ok, so I'm working indoors sanding and painting the upper floor of our new house and as i do this I listen to Crossroads of Twilight. Now I want to discuss Logain and what Forsaken he must be.

 

In CoT he reacts and acts very Forsaken-like when becoming furious when an Asha'man proposes he should join them in the Palace and get some of Mazrim Taim's private tutoring. It all smells of Forsaken..

 

I haven't done any searches hereo on the DM forum - I simply had to run downstairs and went this.

 

Your thoughts on this:

[Reyoru]

I personally don't think he's a forsaken. I doubt a forsaken would be willing to let himself be captured and stilled, then be captured again. Don't forget that the healing of gentling is unheard of by the forsaken.

[jwillis7]

i don't think Logain is forsaken or any bad guy at all. I think Logain is one of the people in the series that i do not have to worry about if they are Darkfriends.  I had a theory on Logain about his halo of what ever min saw.  So they keep saying in Book 5, which i am listing to, that everyone know Logain's name, and how his might be the most dangerous name next to Rand a;'Thor, even in book 11 i think the sea folk say they know of him.  So my theory is that at the last battle when Rand "dies" and loagin steps over his body he is going to finish the plan rand started, this will have all been worked out before hand so Logain will be expecting Rand to "die".  but after TG is over the people in the world will praise Logain with stopping the breaking they thought would happen and winning TG.  just a thought

[magnutz]

I have too always thought well of the character Logain but now I am not sure. He acts very wierd and reacts strangely to certain situations.. ;) Oh, I'll quote the stuff later. Must return to the painting and sanding and such. ;)

[Amayahoshi]

On the structured discussion section of the forums there is a thread dedicated to Logain in all his glory!

 

I'm not convinced he is a Forsaken or even a 'bad' guy. I think the major issue with most people is Min's viewing of glory in his future and how it is interpreted - some see it as a good thing, others are not so sure and theorize that maybe his 'glory' will come from betraying the Light and helping the Shadow in some way. Many of his reactions I would say are simply because he is a proud man, and Rand is not exactly corteous towards him.

 

Personally, I feel that at the Last Battle, should the Light win, events will be orchestrated so that Logain will get the accolades, with Rand faking his death in some way - which ties in with the 'to live, you msut die' thing he was told by the Aelfin people.

[OptimusPrime]

I think Logain would be a great identity for the Forsaken to steal late in the series. The world knows his name, he was stilled yet somehow is now an Ashaman, the second false Dragon to be recruited for Rand. Taim is almost definitely a Darkfriend; how fitting would it be for the Shadow to claim Logain as well? For both false Dragons to betray Rand and turn out to be Darkfriends would severely damage what little faith the world has in Rand. It would also allow further corruption of the Black Tower and, as of current situations, even allow more friction to be created between the Black and White Towers.

 

In CoT he reacts and acts very Forsaken-like when becoming furious when an Asha'man proposes he should join them in the Palace and get some of Mazrim Taim's private tutoring

 

Maybe we should look at that passage and take everything into account, especially what made the Ashaman say that to Logain. I never considered the possibility of Logains identity being stolen, but I think it does make for an interesting possibility. Logain set himself up for it-any false Dragon would be on my list of who to use if I was Forsaken-yet if he was still gentled there wouldnt have been any point.

 

I never considered the idea before this thread, but I do think its definitely worth looking into. His glory could still come about in a number of ways.

[Mr. Micawber]

Wait, you're joking, right?

 

Logain's been a good dude for pretty much the entire series.

 

Taim, meanwhile, uses Elan Morin's colors, uses the only sigil we've seen associated with the Forsaken, and uses a phrase that we've only heard one being originate, and that being lives in a giant, fiery toilet.

 

He's pissed about the private classes because he thinks, almost certainly rightly, that Taim - and probably Elan Morin - is prepping the new Dreadlords.

[OptimusPrime]

Wait, you're joking, right?

 

Logain's been a good dude for pretty much the entire series.

 

Taim, meanwhile, uses Elan Morin's colors, uses the only sigil we've seen associated with the Forsaken, and uses a phrase that we've only heard one being originate, and that being lives in a giant, fiery toilet.

 

 

Were not looking at what makes Taim obviously a Darkfriend. The fact that Logain hasnt been laying so many obvious clues does not discredit the idea when using Taims bluntness as an example.

 

He's pissed about the private classes because he thinks, almost certainly rightly, that Taim - and probably Elan Morin - is prepping the new Dreadlords

 

I need to read the passage again. Do we have a page reference availale by any chance?

[Majsju]

 

 

I need to read the passage again. Do we have a page reference availale by any chance?

 

If there was any doubt before, it becomes very obvious when he tries to tell Rand what Taim is up to in KOD.

[magnutz]

 

 

I need to read the passage again. Do we have a page reference availale by any chance?

 

If there was any doubt before, it becomes very obvious when he tries to tell Rand what Taim is up to in KOD.

 

I've only read KOD once. Soon there again though. ;)

[Muad Cheade]

I think Logain is a good guy, but as Rand once thought, if Logain says he cannot trust Taim (a former False Dragon), how much could he trust another one?

 

Min's view of his glory doesn't say how he receives it. He could get it by betraying Rand. Who knows?

 

I don't think that will happen but as different as Logain Ablar and Mazrim Taim are different, in several ways they are similar.

[mb]

Logain being a Forsaken is absurd since we have seen him in Eye of World (before any of the Forsaken were released).

Logain being Forsaken influenced, that seems doubtful.

 

Like another poster told, there is a Structured thread about Logain.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Logain being a Forsaken is absurd since we have seen him in Eye of World (before any of the Forsaken were released

 

That in itself means nothing. However unlikely it is that Logain is someone else, the fact that we have seen him from early on does nothing to disprove anything. Majs reminder of him pointing fingers at Taim does though

[Ashaman DeRouge]

And assuming he isn't holding a super-complex inverted Illusion weave, wouldn't Rand or LTT recognise him anywho, ala Semi?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Logain being a Forsaken is absurd since we have seen him in Eye of World (before any of the Forsaken were released

 

That in itself means nothing. However unlikely it is that Logain is someone else, the fact that we have seen him from early on does nothing to disprove anything. Majs reminder of him pointing fingers at Taim does though

 

Or, is merely clever misdirection.

 

We're not gonna know about Logain ( or Taim ) until everything plays out further.

[Beren]

All I am going to say is this.

 

Male Forsaken (yes some of these are dead)

 

We know that Logain is not Demandred because we saw him before KoD. (RJ confirmed this much.)

 

We know that Logain is not either of the Gars as we have points of view from both of them.

 

We know that Logain is not Ishamael. That is most obviously Moridin. (read ACoS)

 

 

This should be case closed.

[magnutz]

All I am going to say is this.

 

Male Forsaken (yes some of these are dead)

 

We know that Logain is not Demandred because we saw him before KoD. (RJ confirmed this much.)

 

We know that Logain is not either of the Gars as we have points of view from both of them.

 

We know that Logain is not Ishamael. That is most obviously Moridin. (read ACoS)

 

 

This should be case closed.

 

But it is not.. I feel Logain is a mystery.. ;) Maybe RJ just made him react the way he does in COD to create a little confusion. The way he is written in the beginning of COD marks him as Forsaken in my eyes. He reacts with "fury" when some things are suggested. But I will be more than pleased if he turns out to be NOT a Dark Friend/Forsaken! :D

 

Case open until I have read otherwise. I have ordered TGS. Now, waitn.

[Beren]

I didn't say he was not a Darkfriend. I said he was not a Forsaken.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Why does Logain generate so much debate?

 

I mean whats the deal. He generates so much talk and discussion. He doesn't have that much to do with the main story, we haven't seen him much or had very many points of view from him. He's been around from the very first book and I can't think of any other character that been around so long with so little scenes that gets so much chatter.

Why? Why do people like him also? What has he done to warrant such feelings and why does every one assume he is a good guy, I'm not saying that he is or isn't by the way.

[Beren]

Have you read the later books? If it wasn't for Logain, Taim might have turned all the Asha'man against Rand by now.

[Timp13]

On the structured discussion section of the forums there is a thread dedicated to Logain in all his glory!

 

I'm not convinced he is a Forsaken or even a 'bad' guy. I think the major issue with most people is Min's viewing of glory in his future and how it is interpreted - some see it as a good thing, others are not so sure and theorize that maybe his 'glory' will come from betraying the Light and helping the Shadow in some way. Many of his reactions I would say are simply because he is a proud man, and Rand is not exactly corteous towards him.

 

Personally, I feel that at the Last Battle, should the Light win, events will be orchestrated so that Logain will get the accolades, with Rand faking his death in some way - which ties in with the 'to live, you msut die' thing he was told by the Aelfin people.

 

I have always figured that Logain's glory would come from him saving Rand from some type of plot from Taim and his private group of dark Asha'man.  Rand would be grateful, and honor him after TG.

[Beren]

I would suggest we move this all to the Logain thread instead of making a new thread for a discussion that is already happening.

[jsbrads]

Logain will probably be the next amyrylin or sumthing

 

he could be a darkfriend, but it just isnt him, speculation is just a waste of time

[Owayn The Traveller]

Have you read the later books? If it wasn't for Logain, Taim might have turned all the Asha'man against Rand by now.

 

Yes I have. The thing is Logains followers aren't exactly loyal to the Dragon Reborn either but to Logain. Logain does rightly appear to be behind Rand all right and so are his followers from what we have seen. My point was do he hasn't have much screen time and all that he has done, well most of it, has been off screen and because of that who knows.

[richnewton82]

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