Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Mashiara Sedai

Jason's review of TGS (Egwene speculation)

Recommended Posts

Jason said:

 

"... it was Egwene who stole the show for me. To describe what she goes through, what’s revealed to her, and what she chooses to do in the end, would be far too spoilerish to get into..."

 

In one of the podcasts they discussed what could possibly happen and while listening to it, it sparked a thought.

 

"What she chooses to do in the end" I think means she will do something drastic and my thoughts are that it will probably have to do with the Seanchan attack.  Well, I'm going to assume that when she gets in touch with the ferrets in the Tower, she will learn of the hunt for the Black Ajah and then be lead to the fact that someone has the Oath Rod.  What if Egwene is able to convince Sisters to release themselves from the Three Oaths for the battle with the Seanchan?  Would doing so ruin their relationship with the rest of the world?  I'm sure they'd all have to re-swear, but I can see Egwene being so panicked about the attack that she would be willing to let Sisters off from the oaths for awhile.

 

~Mashiara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe, It does have definate possibilities, except the part about all them removing the 3 oaths. Really dont think that is going to happen with all the Emphasis being on how its the 3 oaths that actually define what an Aes Sedai is instead of being any other woman who can channel. Egwene has been stressing this herself, and using it as another tool, and I believe it honestly something she now beleives herself to her very core. I cant see all this set up about the importance and their removal, especially since Egwene herself notes that is something that Eladia is going to do to turn the Tower against her. All of that leads me to believe its highly unlikely that it is something she would suggest, also especially after Eladia is gone I really dont think she want Aes Sedia speculate about her wanting to mess with the Oaths like Eladia is going to, she is going to want seperation from that. She is actively showing how against that she is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've concidered the possibility of the three oaths as well. Yes, she's stuck on this idea of the oaths defining the Aes Sedai, but they will cripple them in fighting the Seanchan.

 

It may even be that the heavy emphasis on the oaths defining who the Aes Sedai are that makes it so shocking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ask me, we have been seeing more and more just how little it means to be Aes Sedai, as well as how limiting.  From Wilders, the Knitting Circle, Seafolk Windfinders, all have women older, more powerful, and not hampered by the oaths that have managed to lead lives quite well.  Only the Domani and the Forsaken and the Black Ajah can really have a condemning finger pointed at them. 

 

I think that RJ dropped enough hints that what Terangreal that are known how to work are not used for the purpose they were intended.  Also wasn't one of the many titles of Lews Therin protector or some such of the (insert number here) rods?  I think that the rods were used as a punishment to bind a person with oaths against committing whatever crime they had committed previously.  THe Ageless face and not living much past 2-300 years, where Knitting Circle women are far older and have been channeling and have no ageless face?  Lots to think about.

 

There are already thoughts floating about in the storyline of how the Knitting Circle can be a place/group that sisters in the tower can retire into.  We might see a merger.  Remember as well that the Forsaken are contemptful of the so-called Aes Sedai whom only one or two might be close to their strength?  They do not know but the simplest of weaves in their eyes, and the making of great things such as Cuedillar and Angreal and Terangreal. 

 

If you've read/heard as far as chapter 2 we get a glimpse that whatever happens, it will be monumentus.  Maybe she yields the position of Amyrlin Seat to Eliada?  Wouldn't that be a big shock?  One last interesting point is that Mat is now #2 in the Seanchan Empire.  If they invade, he will protect Egwene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Nine Rods of Dominion were regional rulers in the Age of Legends. It was them that Lews Therin could summon--the oath rod was named a binder in the Age of Legends, and there were more than nine of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember how in KoD (And other cases) Annoura says "Well, I for one feel in danger" and then starts her attack? (The Last Knot p 640) If these AS have any care for their own skins an attack by seanchan with adam in hand will make them feel in danger.  That's the trick I think.  If seanchan just left the WT the AS would never be able to go on offense.  But if they put baby in a corner well, they'll lash out.

 

As for the rods, I always assumed the oath rods were the nine rods of dominion but if its in the big white book as otherwise...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the problem, the tactics the Aes Sedai employ to 'put themselves in danger' are only viable with non-channelers--they wait till their in danger then channel their way out of it. With channelers by the time they are in danger, they're... well, in terrible danger that even channeling won't see them clear of.

 

There is the situation too--Aes Sedai put themselves in danger on a one on one level in a pre-existing battle, they do not themselves make battle except with shadowspawn. But that's what they'll be forced to do here. They are no longer merely participants, they are one of the combatents. That's why the oath against using the power as a weapon is only viable whilst the Aes Sedai were the only channeling organisation around--they could afford to restrict themselves, because even restricted they were stronger than their enemies. Thats no longer the case.

 

Especially given the type of urban warfare that will occur in Tar Valon, with  the Seanchan holding strong positions and protecting themselves--the Aes Sedai will not be able to get close enough to be 'in danger' without, well, dying or being leashed. They certainly won't be able to retake the Tower under such restriction.

 

And what would the alternative be Gate there army into the Tower to attack past the walls and defences on the Tower Grounds? Would that not be using the power to create a weapon for one man to kill another?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason said:

 

"... it was Egwene who stole the show for me. To describe what she goes through, what’s revealed to her, and what she chooses to do in the end, would be far too spoilerish to get into..."

Not that I'd expect it to happen in a million years, but when the Seanchan attack, having her dream to Siuan to go get Rand to save them, even if the cost is all AS including her swearing to him, would be a twist I'd pay extra to see.

 

The whole, "I KNOW the Seanchan are coming, I know there's only one person with the forces to match them, but he's he's a ... man! Unless he'd agree as Aes Sedai I automatically know what's right, I'd rather face the Seanchan and risk all the AS being collared'. WOooh, Egwene logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason said:

 

"... it was Egwene who stole the show for me. To describe what she goes through, what’s revealed to her, and what she chooses to do in the end, would be far too spoilerish to get into..."

Not that I'd expect it to happen in a million years, but when the Seanchan attack, having her dream to Siuan to go get Rand to save them, even if the cost is all AS including her swearing to him, would be a twist I'd pay extra to see.

 

The whole, "I KNOW the Seanchan are coming, I know there's only one person with the forces to match them, but he's he's a ... man! Unless he'd agree as Aes Sedai I automatically know what's right, I'd rather face the Seanchan and risk all the AS being collared'. WOooh, Egwene logic.

 

Too true. But Rand may not be too keen to give armies to AS. Not that Egwene would EVER ask. She'd die first. Literally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be a hell of a twist but I think Egwene's head would explode asking Rand "Can I borrow some armies and a few Asha'Man?"  Head explodes:  Romanda; Can I be Amarlyn now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the problem, the tactics the Aes Sedai employ to 'put themselves in danger' are only viable with non-channelers--they wait till their in danger then channel their way out of it. With channelers by the time they are in danger, they're... well, in terrible danger that even channeling won't see them clear of.

 

The three oaths have been demonstrably subjective.  As such a rousing speech about how becoming damane is equivalent to death (like personality death or something) might make them fear for their lives enough to feel subjectively as if their lives were in danger.

 

The situation has to change right? Cause as it stands an AS cannot use the power "as a weapon" to prevent another AS from being collared.

 

As for asking Rand, I don't think so.  I'd imagine Nicola or Sharina leading the novices and accepted to fight to be more likely than ashaman showing up. They know how to link in their families.  THats about the only way they could survive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the three oaths are based on perception, so if you gave a brilliant speech about how all seanchan armies have lots of damane and are using them to kill or leash aes sedai, then a few may begin to feel in danger just by looking at the seanchan army

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea I'm half expecting egwene to find out about the BA hunt via the ferrets and then show up in the basement :). Not only swearing the 3 oaths, but also proclaiming herself the Amyriln Seat and starting the rebellion against Elaida right there, recall that the Hunters are currently starting to think that Elaida is Black :D.

 

Hell they may all walk straight up to Elaida's rooms en mass right then hehe. Prolly not though, when's the last time you saw a character in this series do something the easy way?

 

I'm also hoping Eggy stumbles into them about the same time the hunters are about to descend on the BA high council meeting :D I'd LOVE to see Egwene taking the lead among the hunters about that time :D Not only is she stronger than them, but she's probably a MUCH better channeler too. Time for all these old style Aes Sedai(a polite way of saying "cackling hens") to really start learnin :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea I'm half expecting egwene to find out about the BA hunt via the ferrets and then show up in the basement :). Not only swearing the 3 oaths, but also proclaiming herself the Amyriln Seat and starting the rebellion against Elaida right there, recall that the Hunters are currently starting to think that Elaida is Black :D.

 

Hell they may all walk straight up to Elaida's rooms en mass right then hehe. Prolly not though, when's the last time you saw a character in this series do something the easy way?

 

I'm also hoping Eggy stumbles into them about the same time the hunters are about to descend on the BA high council meeting :D I'd LOVE to see Egwene taking the lead among the hunters about that time :D Not only is she stronger than them, but she's probably a MUCH better channeler too. Time for all these old style Aes Sedai(a polite way of saying "cackling hens") to really start learnin :D

 

The Oaths aren't the only things that make a woman Aes Sedai. She also has to pass through the ter'angreal.

 

You'd have to go through the Red Ajah quarters to get to Elaida and seeign the current state of Ajah relations in the Tower, they'd either be stopped or attacked.

 

Egwene wouldn't be of any help because of the daily forkroot dosages she has to take. She's also always followed by two Red Aes Sedai.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elaida isnt throgh the red ajah quarters, she is in a separate level and office from all other AS, in fact she lives further away from the other AS than any previous amyrlin

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elaida isnt throgh the red ajah quarters, she is in a separate level and office from all other AS, in fact she lives further away from the other AS than any previous amyrlin

 

 

And is building, by all accounts, a palace that shall be to tacky ugliness what Tar Valon is to civic beauty  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The three oaths have been demonstrably subjective.  As such a rousing speech about how becoming damane is equivalent to death (like personality death or something) might make them fear for their lives enough to feel subjectively as if their lives were in danger.

 

I disagree, the fact that the A.S. would know that they would be kept physically alive would likely prevent them from using the power.

 

 

Elaida isnt throgh the red ajah quarters, she is in a separate level and office from all other AS, in fact she lives further away from the other AS than any previous amyrlin

 

Also you must remeber one of the Hunters is a senior Red sister that would be unlikely to be questioned or even stopped by other Red sisters.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elaida isnt throgh the red ajah quarters, she is in a separate level and office from all other AS, in fact she lives further away from the other AS than any previous amyrlin

 

No where does it say that they have to go through the red ajah quarters, just that that was the fastest way from where Egwene was in chapter 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elaida isnt throgh the red ajah quarters, she is in a separate level and office from all other AS, in fact she lives further away from the other AS than any previous amyrlin

 

No where does it say that they have to go through the red ajah quarters, just that that was the fastest way from where Egwene was in chapter 2.

add in the constance DO touch altering hall ways and u cant say anything for sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The three oaths have been demonstrably subjective.  As such a rousing speech about how becoming damane is equivalent to death (like personality death or something) might make them fear for their lives enough to feel subjectively as if their lives were in danger.

 

I disagree, the fact that the A.S. would know that they would be kept physically alive would likely prevent them from using the power.

 

Absolutely, those who could not alter their perspective on the true nature of the risk would be captured and all they could do is make pretty skylights for the empress (may she live forever). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if Egwene re-wrote the oaths? So they still have to swear them, hence still 'makes them Aes Sedai' but a better, more sensible set? Or the oath against lying becomes 'I won't lie, misdirect or mislead'... Although I can see the AS getting uppity about that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that Egwene's abrupt change in thinking regarding the oath rod can be laid at aran'gar's feet.  Egwene was anti-oath rod until aran'gar arrived in salidar and started to use high level comulsion on her.  I think it would be in the DO's best interest to have the light side aes sedai handicapped by the 3 oaths, to make tar valon that much more vulnerable to the Seanchan attack, and to the dreadlords.  Especially now, with the impending seanchan attack, and elaida's crazy thought of a 4th oath, i could see the oaths being forsaken, if only for the last battle.  You have to understand that in the new world order, aes sedai are now the weaklings, hampered by the culling out of channeling, and the 3 oaths, while asha-man and the seanchan have no such limitations. 

The only way the Aes Sedai can survive in Tarmon Gaidon, and any post TG societies is for the to foreswear the oaths.

 

The oaths are an archaic ritual that was useful during/after the breaking when most of the world shared an anti-channeling sentiment, and female channelers were the only ones around.  Now that the wheel has turned from that time, the oaths are a burden of the past that should be discarded, and now is the time that should happen.  RJ has always tried to show the differences between aes sedai and real people, as if Aes Sedai were some sort of gods, instead of regular people, with regular emotions, who happened to be blessed at birth.  The only way to level the playing field, and chnge the world's views on aes sedai and asha'man is to remove the oaths, and work together to help the world recover from TG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stated this before but never saw the response from my fellow posters, but what if the attack on the tower by the Seanchan is a good thing?

 

What if it comes after Rand and Tuon make an alliance and Rand has the Seanchan attack the tower in order to force unify the Aes Sedai, by taking over and giving the tower to the rebel Aes Sedai?  I am not sure how else I see the seanchan justifying an attack on the tower while Ituralde is giving them feats in the west.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that we will see Egwene convincing the Sisters of the Tower to release their Oaths in order to fight the Seanchan.  First, because it would mean Egwene somehow not being a prisoner before the task AND convincing all of the sisters that it was a pre-emptive move.  At the moment, Egwene still believes the Oath Rod is necessary and wants to swear on it herself, so there would have to be a leap in her understanding.

 

Personally, I think that her *shining moments* and her *decision* will revolve around what we have seen in her prophetic dreams.  She will personally be on the brink of death (whether by execution or attack) and the White Tower will be under heavy assault (or already destroyed).  At some point, she will form an alliance and work with the Seanchan (hence the dream about her nearly falling off the edge of a cliff, and a Seanchan from up high coming down to offer her help and alliance).  Somewhere, before or after this alliance, Sisters will be collared and released from the Oaths, then proceed to be turned against their own Sisters (hence the dream about the long line of women in dresses, with the Serpent Ring, being collared and then led to wield lightning against the Tower Walls.

 

Or something around that. 

 

Maybe she will break free before hand, maybe afterwards, I am not sure.  What I personally do NOT see is her convincing Sisters to release the Oaths before any sort of attack.  Aes Sedai are quite stubborn. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

besides they can use the one power as a wepon to protect another sister or that of her warder or antiother sisters warder, ie bond a whole platton send them to fight and  retaliate the first time one is killed..

 

then stand back and watch as these vengefull as beet the stuffing out of the senchan*l*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...