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DRAGONMOUNT

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Owners.Inc

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  • Birthday 10/19/1990
  1. I've always preferred Martin's series over Jordan's or Tolkien's. But I as much as I liked Name of the Wind (haven't read Wise Man's Fear yet), I'm sure you'll agree that Kvothe comes across as a huge Mary Sue character - he's smart, charming, great with weapons and magic and somehow everyone who goes up against him is stupid or cruel or downright evil. I understand a good deal of that maybe because of the unreliable narrator part, but it still gets in the way of my enjoying the story since I don't want to have to remind myself that he maybe lying throughout the story. The book doesn't have a lot of re-read value for me though - there was a lot of enjoyment in learning about Kvothe's life unfold. Having seen it once, there is no added value in re-reading it, no sense of 'Oh, that makes sense now' for me. Good review though, it would be better if you mentioned what you felt were some of the shortcomings of the book. (I'm assuming you didn't think it was perfect_
  2. Its not from the borderlands, its from WW2 Japan
  3. There's no real evidence that a single time use of the TP is going keep a link between the DO and Rand \. and besides links are well known for working both ways. It just might be how Rand beats the DO - though I convinced that Rand drew it through Ishy, not himself. I don't see how you can say the game is over. Rand's still alive, most of his forces are gathering and with his return to sanity, the whole paranoia thing becomes less of an issue. I think the odds are stacked with the Light.
  4. Has soon as I saw this thread I know that TGS would have done nothing to reconcile the different viewpoints here. If anything it's exacerbated them. I certainly think things are worse off now than they were before. I believe the Forsaken aside from Moridin don't really matter, and even he isn't that important. So Semirhage and Graendal dieing doesn't sway me in the least. The famine has vastly accelerated and there is now open war between the Seanchan the followers of the Dragon. In Arad Doman alone 100,000 Seanchan and 50,000 Domani were killed in one battle. These are soldiers who will be desperately needed when the Trollocs pour south by the millions. The Trollocs are not important in and of themselves of course, however it will distract Rand from what is truly important and that is his one on one battle with the Dark One. A battle he has no idea how to wage, and one he may be at a disadvantage at now because he has channeled the True Power. Given the disappearance of the Aes Sedai at the Black Tower it would seem that Taim is ready to make his move. And while many Black sisters were killed, the majority have escaped and will spread across the land sowing chaos and acting as Dreadlords. BA AS are renowned for acting like headless chicken w/o strong guidance. Who are they going to go running to with this big failure on their heads? The forsaken will not happy. They've lost contact with Mesaana, so even they run back to the DO and become dreadlords, they're going to be wildly outnumbered. I also have the feeling that the whole BT betrayal thing may have become a little overhyped. I doubt it will be as dramatic in terms of numbers turning as everyone seems to think. I've mentioned before that its likely the famine will back down a little.
  5. No problems, it is a debate and, I hope, civilized... :-) I have not heard a direct quote from BS, but I am basing my assessment on Rand's orders to feed a million people in Bandar Eban alone. Min had a viewing of mass death rates in Tear back in KoD and from her discomfort at looking at the people in Bandar Eban, I expect the same to happen there. If a million people are in Bandar Eban, then Tear's population is probably on that order as well. Since there is no reason to assume starvation or plague will be limited to just these two countries, and we know from the prologue that nothing is growing anywhere, it's a safe bet that there will be mass starvation, on the order of millions of people - even if some crops will start appearing - it's simply too little too late. As for all food spoiling at once - well, we've seen it happen already in Bandar Eban. Obviously there will be millions who won't die of starvation, but they probably won't exactly get enough food and the chaos due to starvation will affect the living. People will literally sell their soul to the Dark One to feed their families, and who can blame them? You don't need to starve an entire population to death before it completely disintegrates. And I don't know how long till the Last Battle. My hunch is that Eleyne's babies (and Aviendha's future ones?) will be reborn around that time, which puts it off by many months, even accounting for twins usually coming early. Of course, time will probably also start going through the same shifts as the physical world is going through as the Pattern is breaking apart. I doubt you can extrapolate based on the number of channellers, since most women did not choose to go and be tested and only a handful are born with the spark. The great majority of potential channellers not from Seanchan or Aiel probably never get identified. We know from tGS (Rand's POV I think) that there are around a million people in Bandar Eban - and this is just one city. I believe there are tens of millions total, maybe as many as the 100M that others are quoting. A million dying of starvation is hardly "irrelevant", and things will get worse as the Pattern breaks more and more, even if Rand's improvement can help slow the process. We don't know enough of the state of long term supplies in Ebou Dar but near Far Madding crops are not growing, as Nynaeve notes when they ride there. When they started they only attacked Taveren. Now they attack random towns everywhere. What will happen next? It's getting darker all the time, so my guess that it will get far worse - remember the original book title was "A memory of Light". Crops need sunshine to grow. If it's dark all the time, nothing can grow. There were over 200 in total on Verin's list, and probably 10-20 she did not catch. Egwene got 50 in the rebel camp, but hardly any in the White Tower, and none of the ones who were not in the area. Add the 8 or 9 Elayne captured and the one Rand kills - we are still well short of anywhere near 100 captured, so the majority are still at large. I don't want to underestimate the importance of a united cleansed Tower - it is a major blow to the Dark One, but enough bad things are happening to more than balance that. It's not who he insults personally but he is definitely not a leader people want to follow or love, like Mat, Perrin or Egwene. He breaks his bargains with each of his allies constantly (Ituralde, Aiel maidens, Sea Folk, etc.). I can see the Aiel clans that sat on the fense in FoH (Mandelein, etc.) losing hope and breaking off. Ituralde has been betrayed, and Bashere (much as I like him) is suspicious anyway, even without Min's viewings. If the Dark One's victory seems more and more certain, more people will move to the perceived winning side. Mind you, Rand is my favorite character, so it's sad to see this happening, but that's the way it's going. I just don't see him coming back to a big sirupy apology scene, satisfying as that may be to read. I think the Dragonmount scene is a setup for a crisis that will erupt in that area. Too many "Three women" viewings and foretellings in this book, not to mention Perrin again feeling Taveren pull strongly (last time that happened he showed up in time to save Rand from his AS kidnappers). Something will happen to delay his return to his allies - perhaps Alana will die, or he'll run into Gawyn who'll try to kill him, or Fain again. Maybe he will end up in the White Tower for massive Healing. That's my guess anyway - obviously I could be wrong... Well he knows what did not work... He still has no clue what will. They are growing food in the blight, based on the prologue and there are all these strange animals in the Blight. You've posted a lot of sound points here, and to be truthful I don't have a retort for all of them, especially since some of them are matters of opinions in any case. But I'll give it shot - but before I do, I think the main reason I feel that the DO isn't winning might be because a lot of what you've mentioned is happening quietly in the background. I wouldn't blame people for equating the rise and fall of the Forsaken with the likelihood of the DO's victory. Its much easier to figure out who's winning when you see one side blast the other into timelessness. I'm also of the opinion that a lot of what you've mentioned - famine etc - will be the more literal part of the breaking Rand was to bring with him. On the matter of the famine (cos Muad mentioned it too), I agree that the famine in Bandan Eban was bad. But I feel a lot of that was due to vry poor administration and potent Forsaken actively messing things up. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but I got the impression that before the whole food stock turned to crap in Bandar Eban, there enough to go around. Not a lot by any measure, and maybe not entirely enough even, but with rationing, they seemed to be making do. Another thing about this famine was that it would be easier to see its overall impact on the war if it had more of an effect on the main cast. Yes, it figures in their POVs often enough, but it seems like the main cast is impervious to it, and this basically colours readers impression of the importance of the famine (or at least it did mine). As for Logain's request for food, I think Rand was pre-empting the arrival of refugees to BE after he started distributing food. I agree that pre-stabilization BE had much fewer people than the other cities, but after Rand's food distribution plan, there was specific mention of there not being enough space for people in the city (I'll try to look for a quote, but don't take my word on it. Also there is also the massive numbers of Aiel to account for). What I'm saying is that there may have been more people in Be after Rand offered food, than in the other cities. Your point about the Trollocs and Blight - I agree. No argument there - I had assumed (incorrectly) that Trollocs needed human meat. A pretty illogical assumption in retrospect, but there it is. Back to Tear, I'm not sure of this (some details of TGS are already fuzzy), but I don't remember them mentioning the starvation in Tear so much in this book. It was certainly there in KOD, but that was explained by the rebels stealing grain.You're right that other cities are probably facing the same porblems, but I think that Cairhien and Caemlyn are relatively stable in that respect - Elayne's last POV didn't mention much about famine and there's no reason to assume that Cairhien is any worse or better with Rand's prolonged absence. You're right that Rand won't come back and apologize - he wouldn't have done that even in EoTW. But I do feel that others around him will sense the change in him - sort of like how Tuon could sense the darkness in him - and change their attitudes towards him slowly. Yes, it may not happen that way - but it seems more likely. its been mentioned that each of the groups he's betrayed has their own rigid sense of honor. The Aiel honor of course is legendary, but the Sea Folk and Itrulade's honor is not far behind. I believe they will be unhappy with Rand, but they will not betray him. I don't personally think that Bashere is suspcious, but that's just one of those personal opinion things. About the darkness - sorry, but I'm still not convinced. The need for light for crops will only manifest in the long run, and I think Rand will induce TG to start before that. Its likely that Avi and Elayne will be pregnant during the TG - though I can't say I like that if it'll keep them out of TG entirely. Similar argument against the bubbles of evil. What could happen next is anyone's guess - they are likely to get worse, but not matter how bad it gets, it seems unlikely that a bubble will be able to absorb armies or large cities totally. Their effect might become serious, but I don't see it right now and what I see right now affects my opinion of who's winning to a larger degree than speculations of the future. I noted the millions in BE as being largely irrelevant because they were not the Arad Doman army - which has already been effectively splintered and nullified. So I feel Rand lost nothing militarily by abandoning Arad Doman.
  6. Well...ok...I give...its prob 100 million if not more. Shouldn't there be more women/men who can channel though? remember though that large stretches of land are unoccupied. Almoth Plain, the Blight etc. so comparing in terms of size itself is a little impractical. That's possibly balanced for the unaccounted Sea Folk isles though.
  7. 100 million? Where did you get that from? Each of these major cities are much smaller than major cities today, and even today a good many cities do not have 10 million people in them. Caemlyn for instance based on attached maps is really not that big. 10 million per large cities is simply too large. That may have been true in the AOL, but its been mentioned that the population has been dropping steadily since then, Ingtar mentions this - so I really doubt 100 million.
  8. I especially liked how LTT sounded totally sane at the end of Veins of Gold. It was the kind of scene that made me stop and think 'Wait, a minute...he's sane now?' and then he vanishes. I dunno about you guys, but I'll actually miss LTT's character, partially for his insanity but also cos there'll be fewer AOL infodumps, which I liked. What do you guys think will happen to Rand's memories now? The consensus seems to be that he'll remember some of the AOL but not all of it. Will he be able to bring up AOL memories at will?
  9. Light is winning you say? Okay let's see: - No new crops coming on. - Food spoiling at a massive rate. - Millions of people are starving. - Bubbles of evil becoming norm rather than exception. - Constant darkness - both depressing, ruining crops and helping trollocs (who are better fighting in the dark). - Trollocs produced by the millions - they certainly have plenty food available... - Dragon may have healed mentally, but still very sick physically and having increasing trouble with grabbing the source. - Plenty traitors and darkfriends we don't even know about. - No idea yet how to reseal the Dark One. - Seanchan still enemies splitting the forces of light further. - Most Black Ajah escaped - likely hooking up with the darkfriend Ashaman. - Rand's temperament in the last book was such that I would not be surprised if some of his more opportunistic allies will abandon him. I think the light side are in pretty poor shape, despite the few victories. As for destroying the CK - Rand did the right thing. Too powerful and dangerous. What it fell to the hands of the Foesaken or Taim? i don't what to turn this into another Do underdog thread, but it is something i feel strongly about. Points 1. and 2. go together I believe. BS has recently indicated that, in reference to the prophecy of the Dragon being linked to the land, that the food spoilage may let up a little after Rand's sanity returns to him. I know that doesn't really counter your argument very well especially since I'm not sure I'm understanding Bs's answer right, but even other wise, if you think about it, the Borderlanders, Aiel and independent Saldaens seem to be getting on fine. Yes, Arad Doman is doomed, but it had little to offer Rand anyway except Ituralde anyway. With him helping defend the Blight, Arad Doman can literally rot and it would not matter militarily. You also seem to neglect that the last battle might not be so far away. It might happen in a month's time. Yes, if ALL the food in the WORLD goes spoilt at once right now, Rand is in deep trouble. But ask yourself, could that really happen? What kind of story would that make from an author's and reader's POV? A build up to a battle but the hero starves before fighting his evil enemy? Yes, I know I'm looking at this from an outside POV, and the characters could not be thinking this, but despite that, the intention was to create a sense of struggle and that cannot happen unless we are convinced that Rand might not be able to defeat the DO. I'm a little skeptical about the millions starving bit. I'm not sure about the population of Randland, but its not more than 10 million I believe. This is not my guess btw, but something I'm taking from another TGS thread based on the number of channelers available to each culture. With the largely irrelevant exception of arad doman, food spoilage has been widely documented and the world is arguably on the brink of starvation, but it is not starving yet. The people in the seanchan lands seem content enough as Rand notes, and as mentioned above, the Aiel, Borderlanders and other seem well enough. I mention these since they are likely to be the main fighting infantry forces at TG. The bubbles of evil are increasing in frequency yes, but even at their most vicious, they've only engulfed a town of harmless farmers. Nothing to say that the can't take over Rand's whole army, but it seems unlikely. If the DO could've, he would've. In most cases, the bubbles take out one person or a small group at a time. Unless you have several such bubbles a day, the Light should have plenty soldiers remaining to put up a show at TG. I don't see the constant darkness as a such a major advantage to the trollocs. its not pitch black - there's enough light for both sides to see in. and the depression is more likely due to many other things than the weather. Maybe you feel this is a major point, but I don't really agree. Skipping ahead a little, I don't think most of the Ba escaped. In fact, I think egwene got most of them and some escaped. Not few, but not very many. In any case, the unclosetting of the BA is counterbalanced more than equally by the unification of the WT. Whatever mischief the BA could get up to, (and they've not been too effective so far), it cannot undermine the fact that a united tower is a huge blow to the DO. Its essentially undone the DO's plan since TSR. When you talk of Rand's allies, who did you have in mind? The only one Rand really takes a dump on in this book is Tam, Rhuarc, Bael and Cadsuane. None of these are opportunistic. Even Dobraine, a Cairhienin, is steadfast in his loyalty to Rand. Those who seem unsure of Rand's mind are likely to be appeased by his new outlook on life. Similarly, the Seanchan are more likely to come together with a Dragon who does not appear so scary and cruel. The grouping of the Seanchan and Rand would effectively be the DO's forces' death sentence. Yes, Rand does not know how to seal the bore - that is very much in the DO's favour. After all we can't win a fight if contact with the enemy isn't allowed right? Bear in mind though, that Rand presumably now has access to most/all of LTT's memories and knows more about sealing the bore than anyone. Lastly, the Trollocs. We are told there are thousands upon thousands of Trollocs in the Blight. But plenty of food? The Blight has been quiet for months - not even raids - so where is this food coming from?
  10. Turn a corner? More like they went from strong position, to an almost unbeatable one.
  11. Yeah, its like neither of them do anything when they meet except take offense at the smallest action of the other.
  12. Hmmm.... You do have a point. I guess this is just another one of those things (one of many) where I think theorizers such as me and you will be divided on until we learn more info. I guess I want to give the DO credit for coming up with a very sinister plan that actually worked, rather than all of the lame Forsaken plots that seem to fall on their faces. But, what if the DO's goal isn't to completely break Rand, but to just break him enough that he will be willing to use the TP and thus causing a link between the Champion of the Light and the DO himself (not Moridin)? Also, in the Lexington, KY signing report, they say that "Brandon hinted at some severe limitations on Shaidar Haran to affect the physical world. He says that a lot of actions that people assume to be those of Shaidar Haran in the book in one particular scene were physically carried out by Elza. He further indicated that Shadar Haran would have been incapable of physically placing the collar himself." So, Shadar Haran didn't free Semi. He just appeared to tell her that she was given a second chance. Elza killed/stunned the Aes Sedai who were shielding Semi, and she probably received help from someone else (likely Graendal). It's likely that Graendal was somehow involved since Elza had "compulsion that needed to be removed" and Graendal was specifically asked at the beginning of the book to hit Rand where it really hurts the most (ie. his heart). Also, Cadsuane mentions that she doesn't understand how anybody got through her wards on the box that was holding the Domination Band and the CK, and she thinks to herself something like, "Who knows what the Forsaken are capable of." Could anyone other than a knowledgeable Forsaken or Shadar Haran himself break those wards? All this evidence tells me that this whole meeting was carefully planned, and for some reason Semi was not in the loop. Now, did they know that Semi would be stupid and not immediately fulfill her assignment (ie. capture Rand and immediately take him to Shayol Ghul), but that she would stick around and have some "fun" first? No, I don't think that they knew that... But I think the desired outcome was the same (Rand took the TP out of desperation). Finally, Verin does speculate that the Forsaken are so selfish in nature that they actually even seem too predictable... So maybe Moridin/Graendal/the DO/whoever did know that Semi would do something as foolish as she did in the end. A few points that strike me: - A direct strike does not seem much like Graendal's style, but the Compulsion and dexterity of removing the guardian weaves indicate that it is her. Which makes me wonder why the DO would want to risk so much on one attack - no one knows about shaidar haran - a creature like him can be very useful in the LB if there are more of them. He's also risking Graendal - Rand doesn't know where she is at this point, and the whole purpose of that would be defeated if Rand would just wander into that room at that time with a few of his AS. -BS's statement doesn't really say for sure what SH could or could not have done. I'm of the mind that the unweaving of the chest weaves was done by Graendal, but he played a role in taking out the AS or at least helping Elza do it. -If the point was for Rand to use the TP, then this was an extremely strange way of doing it. There was no assurance that Semirhage would be able to find, beat and capture Rand and no further guarantee that Rand would use the TP. I feel that the whole point was for Semirhage to redeem herself. Moridin was extremely pissed at her disobeying him and SH said he would give her one last time to redeem herself to DO. So, she's ordered to do what Ishamael, Lanfear and others have been trying to do since EOTW - turn him to the Shadow forcefully. Even if she couldn't find or capture Rand, it was almost guaranteed that she could cause enough chaos once released to strike a real blow to Rand. -Semi's tendencies of having fun are well documented but it does raise the question of whose plan this was? Graendal seems likely, as you said, given her orders to cause Rand pain of heart and the indirectness of action also speaks in her favour. But would Semirhage really obey Graendal? And more importantly, would Graendal give semirhage the opportunity to redeem herself to the DO? Given how selfish and small minded the forsaken can be, this seems unlikely. -If you remember Moggy's explanation of the sad bracelets, she said that the Dom Band could be used with only 1 woman - there was no need for Elza to hold the other controlling band. Furthermore, having two women lowered the control over the man (though Semirhage overcame this via the Compulsion on Elza.) But something seems a little strange here: Graendal pops up with SH and reveals herself to Elza (we know Graendal has extensive contacts among the Darkfriends and BA, so its not unusual that she would know that Elza was BA.) or she might have just compelled her. Next, someone, presumably Elza comes in and takes out the weaves on the chest with the Dom Band but specifically leaves the CK alone. - - Elza was present at the Cleansing, so she would know about the Ck and would have removed it immediately. - - If she was compelled though, then it makes sense that she wouldn't pick up the CK. Whoever had compelled her wouldn't have ordered her to pick the CK if she didn't know it was there, which neither Semirhage nor Graendal knew. Ok, I'm a little fuzzy as to what happened after that - why keep Elza around? She would have been a hindrance and a liability. Have I got the order the attack right? Do Elza, Graendal and SH pick up the Dom Band first and then free Semi? I guess it doesn't matter... Lastly, how had the Shadow known this attack would cause Rand pain of heart? Semirhage attacked Min via Rand partially to torture Rand and mainly cos she was pissed that Min's knives had cut her twice. How could the Shadow/graendal etc, know Min would be around? Semirhage did not mention any orders so was she left alone to prove herself as she saw fit? Was Graendal even involved then? Or did Semirhage launch this attack on Rand out of her own impulsive initiative to redeem herself? If so it was poorly thought out and she got quite lucky - but we know that she was never a great planner. Ok long post....I want answers though. Though I've wandered quite far from the inital TP/Rand/DO/Moridin link topic....sorry.
  13. So true. Basel Gill and Thom playing stones in the corner. Loial sneaking away from his wife to go read in the library downstairs, Rand hanging out with Min/Avi/Elayne etc... I'd actually swap Elayne's whole KOd storyline for a chapter or two like that.
  14. It seems clear to me that "at that moment" the DO recognized through Moridin that Rand had been broken, and then granted him access to the TP willingly. However, "he reached toward it with his mind" could mean that he's accessing it in some strange way through his link to Moridin (who is "in his mind") but I don't buy that as much. I think the DO willingly granted access to Rand to use the TP in the moment that his plan worked and Rand was sufficiently broken and therefore completely willing to do ANYTHING necessary, including holding "death and betrayal," to save Min. Rand says basically "I'll do anything to free her" then his emotions break/disappear, then the DO says "Here ya go" and BAM! Rand has access to the TP, which is likely what the DO and Moridin had planned all along. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Its one thing that the DO and the Forsaken are incredibly inept, but for the DO to risk Shaidar Haran's exposure to free Semirhage, then let Rand kill seems ridiculous to me. Wasn't Semi going to turn Rand after she made him kill Min? So why the need to give him the TP? Rand being turned would have ended the war in a flash and the DO would have won by default. So your argument that the DO granted permission to Rand BALEFIRE Semirhage doesn't make sense. Over and above that, the DO would have been aware of the possibility of Rand using balefire on one his (the DO's most powerful tools). And if you contend that Moridin 'knew' that Rand was broken, then surely it wouldn't have hurt for the DO to let him kill Min right? Complete the breaking? In any case, I can't see why the DO would want Rand to be broken at that stage. Broken Rand ass kicked Graendal to hell without any warning. Why make him even more dangerous? On the other hand, the evidence that Rand channeled via Moridin can be much more securely backed up with evidence to support it. Moridin is that only one who has permission to wield TP (check BS statement), Rand for more than obvious reasons is not on the TP users list so the only answer (which has been forshadowed in the Prologue and in Rand's dream) is the linking of Rand and Moridin. I don't want to think about what that may mean for the Bodyswap theory, but I'm not going to discuss Bodyswap since I just ate a nice meal, and it would be off topic anyway.
  15. One of the more interesting things going on off screen is Mat's trip to Caemlyn - I think that according to the timeline and Rand's visions, Mat should've been in Caemlyn for a while when Rand saw him. Has he opened the envelope yet? Probably not knowing Mat. Next up, was Morgase FINALLY being outted. I've been waiting for that to happen since forever. So its good when Tam gives us the heads up. Rand's reaction was kind of amusing - 'So she's alive huh?' but at least it means that there's one less annoying circle of irritation involving Perrin and his group. On a related note, I'm glad the whole Berelain and Faile thing has ended. Er, apart from that - I can see Perrin's logical jump being to Caemlyn to meet Elayne and hand over her mother and half-bro to her. I'm very hopeful that Mat meets Perrin, cos those two haven't been together since Tear WAY back in TSR. I've always felt it should've been Perrin who saved Moiraine given his knowledge (compared to Mat) of the ToG. Maybe he'll be the third (wistful thinking). As for Veins of Gold, it would seem an odd name for the chapter if it didn't involve Elayne, Aviendha or Min - or at least have repercussions on them in the future. After all veins of gold are what they described Rand's love for them as. Well, if not that then perhaps - its named that way just cos of the general theme of love. I don't believe Rand was on DM for very long - perhaps a few hours? Out of which he was suicidal channeling only for a few minutes. He spent most of his time just thinking. Regarding what Brandon said about the Dragon and the land being one, I wonder how this will affect the DO's effects. For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, BS said recently, that the en-mass food spoilage in Bandar Eban was linked to Rand's mood/madness/temperament.
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