Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Durinax]

I think you can fall from hero status, it is something that must be maintained. And few are able to maintain it or even accomplish feats impressive enough to become a hero of the horn

[Random Man]

I think you can fall from hero status, it is something that must be maintained. And few are able to maintain it or even accomplish feats impressive enough to become a hero of the horn

If it's the case that an equal number of Heroes must fall to compensate for the new Heroes with each turning, it becomes very improbable that a pair such as Birgitte and Gaidal Cain would be continually spun out together, because at some point one of the pair would fall and then there'd be no dynamic duo. This suggests that either Heroes are predestined by the Wheel or that there are a finite amount of turnings, or that somehow Birgitte and Gaidal managed to defeat insurmountable odds, considering that there aren't all that many Heroes. There are, of course, also Calin and Shivan who are a pair said to be born to herald the end of an age, and having two pairs spun out over infinite ages makes it unlikely that falling from hero status is the normal fare.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

I think you can fall from hero status, it is something that must be maintained. And few are able to maintain it or even accomplish feats impressive enough to become a hero of the horn

If it's the case that an equal number of Heroes must fall to compensate for the new Heroes with each turning, it becomes very improbable that a pair such as Birgitte and Gaidal Cain would be continually spun out together, because at some point one of the pair would fall and then there'd be no dynamic duo. This suggests that either Heroes are predestined by the Wheel or that there are a finite amount of turnings, or that somehow Birgitte and Gaidal managed to defeat insurmountable odds, considering that there aren't all that many Heroes. There are, of course, also Calin and Shivan who are a pair said to be born to herald the end of an age, and having two pairs spun out over infinite ages makes it unlikely that falling from hero status is the normal fare.

 

Perhaps not all souls have it in them to be heroic enough to become Heroes. Then again, I think Birgitte said at one point that they were just doing what they had to do, and none of it was really for glory-seeking. The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.

[jwillis7]

i don't think there are new "hero" threads added.  i think people can be bound to the horn but i think that is different than becoming an instrument the pattern uses

[ram-bhat]

I don't think Mierin is reborn, because she is Lanfear/ Cyndane, already existing. I agree with Impressive Bosom that Alivia has a special role, and this will be expanded some more.

 

But I don't think Alivia is Ilyena reborn - just a gut feeling...!

[CTKShadow]

BS has mentioned that chapter 60 of ToM (possibly changed since) is the chapter that he felt he did the best on, and also the most "heart-wrenching" (or something along those lines).

 

Now the obvious conclusion is that one of our most beloved characters dies. But whom? Or what else could it be? Let the speculation begin!

[aunt_pol]

I think you can fall from hero status, it is something that must be maintained. And few are able to maintain it or even accomplish feats impressive enough to become a hero of the horn

If it's the case that an equal number of Heroes must fall to compensate for the new Heroes with each turning, it becomes very improbable that a pair such as Birgitte and Gaidal Cain would be continually spun out together, because at some point one of the pair would fall and then there'd be no dynamic duo. This suggests that either Heroes are predestined by the Wheel or that there are a finite amount of turnings, or that somehow Birgitte and Gaidal managed to defeat insurmountable odds, considering that there aren't all that many Heroes. There are, of course, also Calin and Shivan who are a pair said to be born to herald the end of an age, and having two pairs spun out over infinite ages makes it unlikely that falling from hero status is the normal fare.

 

 

Hey maybe I'm a bit dense to only get this now, but could that be what's 'odd' about Elayne's babbies? Could they be this Calin and Shivan pair? I'm assuming they're not romantically linked like Birgitte and Gaidal?

[maradon]

Hey maybe I'm a bit dense to only get this now, but could that be what's 'odd' about Elayne's babbies? Could they be this Calin and Shivan pair? I'm assuming they're not romantically linked like Birgitte and Gaidal?

 

It's Aviendha's quadruplets (i'm not sure if thats the right word) thats meant to have something odd about them. As far as I know the only thing we've heard about Elaynes children are that one will be a boy, the other will be a girl and that Elayne lives to give birth to them (god I hope she dies the instant after that tho.. hopefully taking Galad with her).

 

As to the issue of souls moving into and out of the list of Heroes I would say that there is some room to maneouvre, as if it was all preplanned by the wheel for Age after Age, turning after turning then there would be no Fain.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I don't think the viewing was that Elayne would live to give birth rather Min have a viewing that she would have children and Elayne interpreted that into her idea that she is invincible till then.

I could be wrong in thinking that.

[DemandredFO]

I hope it's not Tam that's the heart-wrenching thing.  I'll be upset and Rand will be totally pissed.  Rand, Mat and Perrin can't die until mission accomplished, Elayne, Min and Aviendha can't die because of that viewng.  Egwene, Gawyn and Nyneave probably won't die.  Of the remaining characters Tam would be the only really upsetting one.

 

P.S.  I highly don't Moiraine or Thom will die too.

[mb]

BS has mentioned that chapter 60 of ToM (possibly changed since) is the chapter that he felt he did the best on, and also the most "heart-wrenching" (or something along those lines).

 

Now the obvious conclusion is that one of our most beloved characters dies. But whom? Or what else could it be? Let the speculation begin!

Maybe a Forsaken turns to the Light in a earlier chapter and dies in that chapter.

Or maybe a Light-sided character dies in that chapter and becomes resurrected either in a later chapter or in the last book.

 

I hope it's not Tam that's the heart-wrenching thing.  I'll be upset and Rand will be totally pissed.  Rand, Mat and Perrin can't die until mission accomplished, Elayne, Min and Aviendha can't die because of that viewng.  Egwene, Gawyn and Nyneave probably won't die.  Of the remaining characters Tam would be the only really upsetting one.

 

P.S.  I highly don't Moiraine or Thom will die too.

Tam is not the only candidate.

Though I agree that these are not (unless they are resurrected shortly after)::

-Rand/Mat/Perrin (because of the many unfulfilled Prophesies/Viewings/Dreams/Foretellings about them)

-Rand's 3 lovers (because of unfulfilled Viewings/Dreams and Lord of Chaos Foretelling)

-Egwene & Gawyn (mainly Dreams)

-Nynaeve (because she may be needed to fulfill one of Lan's Viewings [baby with sword]; also because of her Gathering Storm Viewing)

-Thom & Moiraine (Dreams & Viewings)

 

I would also add these to those who are not::

-Tuon/Fortuona (several Prophesies involve her)

-Faile (because she may be needed to fulfill Perrin's Broken Crown Viewing)

-Lan (very first Viewings)

-Cadsuane (still yet to teach at least Ashamen something; the same something as for Rand)

-Berelain & Galad (Viewings & Dreams)

-Logan (Dream & Foretelling)

-Most Ashamen (a Cadsuane Viewing)

-the 3rd guy (possibly Noal)

 

Now for other possible candidates::

-Aiel Wise Ones

-Aiel Clan Chief

-Aes Sedia that swore fealty to Rand

On each of those, most likely one that was introduced in the earlier books.

 

[cortezthekiller]

People who could die and could be considered "heart-wrenching"...  hmm what about Suian or Leane?  Could it be Cadsuane?  Hasn't she fulfulled her role in making Rand laugh/cry?

[PatsNats28]

I think Lan dies.... and then Nynaeve heals his death in aMoL

[mb]

People who could die and could be considered "heart-wrenching"...  hmm what about Suian or Leane?  Could it be Cadsuane?  Hasn't she fulfulled her role in making Rand laugh/cry?

Her "role" was to teach Rand and all Ashamen something; I take that the something was to be same for each of them.

 

Might have fulfilled for Rand, yet Ashamen are still left.

 

[Majsju]

You know, 'heart-wrenching' does not necessarily mean death ;)

[PatsNats28]

You know, 'heart-wrenching' does not necessarily mean death ;)

 

Torture?

[Crossroad]

You know, 'heart-wrenching' does not necessarily mean death ;)

 

Torture?

Yes I think its due whether we want it or not, some sort of abduction of one of the major players.  Have no idea who will do the dirty deed, but Its likely to happen well I'm confident 60/40 it happening.

[Hadilmir]

Tuon gets turned by the 13x13 trick. Rand, regretfully, kills her, Mat kills Rand while Moridin stands behind him laughing, "I have won again, for the final time, Lews Therin." Mat turns around, and then the world ripples, darkening with each ripple. Finally the darkness overtakes the world and nothing can be seen or heard except Elan Morin Tedronai's laughter. Then, the silence of a void.

 

 

I read it in a newspaper article once. The doctors say I had bad food-poisoning that day and shouldn't have been able to read anything, but I'll stick to what I saw.

[DemandredFO]

It could be Elayne because of her conviction she's invincible or it could be Tuon, just because alot of Seanchan probably still won't believe in Shadowspawn.  If it's that, which it may be considering the comments Rand has spat out.

[Durinax]

It could be Elayne because of her conviction she's invincible or it could be Tuon, just because alot of Seanchan probably still won't believe in Shadowspawn.  If it's that, which it may be considering the comments Rand has spat out.

most of the seanchan high command believe in trollocs now, Kylee brought a couple of heads as proof

[FarShainMael]

@mb: I don't think there are any viewings or dreams that signal Thom's survival, are there? And the only thing we have about Moiraine is that Min comments that her viewings about M are the only ones that have (apparently) failed.

 

[FarShainMael]

You know, 'heart-wrenching' does not necessarily mean death ;)

 

To me it suggests a major loss of some kind, not necessarily loss of one's own life, or even that of another. A parting of lovers, perhaps. A sacrifice of something held dear. A decision between the two horns of a dilemma, like the weighing of two AS on a balance scale..

 

[Shard]

You know, 'heart-wrenching' does not necessarily mean death ;)

 

I agree this could actually refer to Moraines reunion with people. I also consider what Rand did to his father and Hurin as Heart Wrenching.

[DemandredFO]

At the very least I think Rand will apologize to Tam, perhaps no one else but I think he will to Tam.

[FarShainMael]

I agree, I've mused before that it'll be a 'prodigal son' moment.. Perhaps he'll protect Tam from himself by asking the AS to shield him and the Maidens to hold their spears ready, then he'll go to Tam and say forgive me, kill me if you wish. Then they have a big hug!